Project Uber

[gengod]

Forretress (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/50 Def/8 Spd/200 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Counter / Toxic
- Substitute
---

This is a pretty decent lead in Ubers. If you don't know how it works as a lead then you probably shouldnt be playing Ubers. =] Third slot is up to personal preference. EVs could probably be refined better to optimally survive certain attacks but I was too lazy to do that when I made the team, so feel free to experiment there. Might post some of my other sets later if I feel a need to again :P

 

[Colonel M]

It's a set that I've tried out. It works alright for the most part, though it could be EV'd better perhaps.

Tyranitar @ Chesto Berry (Though Lum could also work)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Focus Punch
- Crunch
- Stone Edge / Counter
---

I didn't use Counter, but it sounds interesting since lead Groudons can't KO Tyranitar with EQ (I believe). Anyway, the premise is simple: Stealth Rock leads should be met with Focus Punch. Period. Same with Darkrai. Crunch is to tackle DX-S leads, providing a 2HKO. I think I should test Counter now since it sounds good against Lead Groudon.

 

[Jibaku]

Veed: Run more speed lol. Use 250 Speed next time and drop a few SA (3 points isn't going to kill you is it?). You lose a teeny bit of guarantee on the kill but you get to outrun Scarfchomp, something Kingdra has over Palkia.

I think I should test Counter now since it sounds good against Lead Groudon.

They'll probably use Stealth Rock anyways, because Groudon usually laughs at TTar and doesn't mind taking the turn to set up rocks. Any reason you have Chesto > Lum though?

As for Darkrai, you can use Superpower if you want to kill it so bady. FP is pretty risky because Darkrai could just outright Focus Blast you Unless of course you want to put lead Dialga into Crunch's kill range I think. Hmm...

 

[Colonel M]

Usually the steps against Groudon is to Focus Punch it first IF anything. The reason? It will force them to attack, or switch to a Ghost-type (the latter being foolish). Counter should be used after because, as you said, Groudon will laugh as it lays Stealth Rock and then it'll just Earthquake it to its demise since Focus Punch was used. So then, Counter would handle the rest of Groudon's HP.

Yeah, Lum Berry is probably better, but I figured that Thunder Waving Lead Tar isn't the best idea since they're slow as hell anyway. Unless they think it's some Rock Polish Tar, but it won't even beat Groudon one-on-one anyway unless it does have Counter.

 

[Veedrock]

Veed: Run more speed lol. Use 250 Speed next time and drop a few SA (3 points isn't going to kill you is it?). You lose a teeny bit of guarantee on the kill but you get to outrun Scarfchomp, something Kingdra has over Palkia.

It was actually 20. I didn't feel the need to invest much (before testing) because DD + Rain will outspeed everything, but that experience showed that DD isn't always there. Now I am running 251 as to avoid that nasty situation again.

Since the general Uber discussion thread is gone (page 3, like a month old), I'm going to ask here. Hope that's not an issue. What are some good ways to cushion Dragon attacks? I know "use steels" but what else? I often find myself Encoring a dragon attack with Wobb and literally having nothing to take it outside of Dialga, which can't take advantage of it.

EDIT: It's not that I hate using steels, I just doubt their effectiveness in Ubers as a whole. Thanks for the response Jibaku.

 

[Jibaku]

"Use Blissey"
For dangerous Palkia/Dialga/Lati@s assaults obviously, though Outrages can tear her apart.

That said there isn't much you can do. There's Lugia for physical dragons if you hate using Steels, though I have never calculated how much Jolly DDRay Orb +1 Outrage does to it. Tyranitar can take on Scarf Spacial Rends/Giratina-O (beware of Aura Sphere, though it isn't used much)/Lati@s (beware of GK coming from Latios especially). However, unless you decide to use a Rest/Talk TTar (which I've never tried), these dragon moves will continually pound you to death, and TTar doesn't enjoy taking Specs boosted hits from Dialga.

 

[iKitsune]

Well done Veed for testing Kingdra. This is a model example of the kind of evidence we need especially as you are using Kingdra in a team that it is likey to thrive in.From the looks of things Kingdra is really effective i was disappointed when it only netted one kill which is a testament to its sweeping capabilities. I felt that you should try and see what its general durability is in the uber tier. Is it capable of switching in and therefore improving the synergy of the team. If not i will be suprised and dissapointed but i hope its able to. Depending on the success of this Kingdra is clearly Uber strong.

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

CB dugtrio, and dugtrio in general is very viable in ubers. With u-turn support on a special attacker like jirachi, he can nullify blissey switch ins with his arena trap.
If you pack your team with special attackers, and a pursuit user to nab the lati twins this is an effective way of removing your counters.
With an adamant nature and max speed evs he outruns non scarfed max speed palkia and rayquaza and groudon and kyogore and messes up dialga
He also learns sucker punch which is super effective vs alot of ubers.
I've run many variations of dugtrio, but i like adamant choice banded dugtrio for max damage or adamant scarfed dugtrio for revenge kills and outspeeding everything except scarfed darkrai and mewtwo.

Veedrock[/url], post: 1858290"]EDIT: It's not that I hate using steels, I just doubt their effectiveness in Ubers as a whole. Thanks for the response Jibaku.

Metagross is awesome in ubers. Explosion, pursuit, bullet punch, meteor mash are all awesome moves.
With choice banded pursuit he can wreck blissey and the lati twins and mewtwo, or he can use bullet punch or meteor mash.
The rain gets rid of one of his weaknesses and fire and ground moves are rarely seen in ubers anyway.
Steel is the only type to resist dragon, ie outrage
Metagross and scizor are the only pokemon with reliable priority moves id consider using in uber other than rayquaza.
Scizor is awesome in ubers, i dont think i need to even say anything.
I think i deserve a prize for not insulting you :)

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

EDIT: It's not that I hate using steels, I just doubt their effectiveness in Ubers as a whole. Thanks for the response Jibaku.

Metagross is awesome in ubers. Explosion, pursuit, bullet punch, meteor mash are all awesome moves.
With choice banded pursuit he can wreck blissey and the lati twins and mewtwo, or he can use bullet punch or meteor mash.
The rain gets rid of one of his weaknesses and fire and ground moves are rarely seen in ubers anyway.
Steel is the only type to resist dragon, ie outrage
Metagross and scizor are the only pokemon with reliable priority moves id consider using in ubers.
Scizor is awesome in ubers, i dont think i need to even say anything.
I think i deserve a prize for not insulting you :)

 

[Matthew]

CB dugtrio, and dugtrio in general is very viable in ubers. With u-turn support on a special attacker like jirachi, he can nullify blissey switch ins with his arena trap.
If you pack your team with special attackers, and a pursuit user to nab the lati twins this is an rffective way of removing your counters.
With an adamant nature and max speed evs he outruns non scarfed max speed palkia and rayquaza and groudon and kyogore.
He also learns sucker punch which is super effective vs alot of ubers.
I've run many variations of dugtrio, but i like adamant choice banded dugtrio for max damage or adamant scarfed dugtrio for revenge kills and outspeeding everything except scarfed darkrai and mewtwo.

We've already decided Dugtrio is a failed set for a few reasons. Mainly because he's frail and doesn't pack enough power behind his attacks. Secondly Rayquaza will not lose to Dugtrio simply because Rayquaza does not leave home without Extreme Speed, and with Dugtrio's frail defenses it does not stand a chance. Secondly, using Sucker Punch on Dugtrio Choice Band Dugtrio not only completely risky, allowing your opponent to stat up and stall you out of your eight Sucker Punch PP (or four if Pressure is in effect). Lati@s can switch out because of their ability, but you CAN take advantage of that by Pursuit, I guess. Blissey is also starting to carry Shed Shell because of Wobbuffet, making the idea of countering Blissey with Dugtrio a bit backwards (though if Shed Shell doesn't catch on then I guess it works to some degree)

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

I still think dugtrio is better in ubers than parasect :)

 

[Matthew]

I still think dugtrio is better in ubers than parasect :)

This has nothing to do with anything as both are marked as failed pokemon.

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

On their day anything can shine in ubers. I was using Arcanine just coz i love him. He's usually cannon fodder for ubers, but can successfully counter scizor and metagross (don't carry earthquake often in ubers) and can force blissey to switch. His stab attack is also boosted by sunlight.
Sure he's countered horribly by lugia and giratina but he can kinda hurt lugia with toxic on its switch in.
I know he'll probably get listed as a failed experiment by you guys, but beating an opponent with arcanine in my team is priceless :)
Barky
Arcanine
naive nature 252 speed 252 att
choice band/life orb
extreme speed
overheat
flare blitz
toxic

I hate being tied into one attack, so i listed life orb as an option, but that hinders his already questionable ability to reliably and repeatedly counter metagross and scizor.
Choice band extreme speed comes in handy

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

I use Arcanine in ubers coz i love him :) He'll probably get listed as a failed experiment by you guys, but beating someone with arcanine on my team is priceless. Sure he's normally cannon fodder for ubers, but he can reliably counter scizor and metagross that don't carry earthquake (which is most metagross in ubers).
Sure my beloved arcanine is countered to hell by lugia and giratina, but he can use toxic on lugia to hurt its ability to counter other physical threats on your team.
Extreme speed comes in handy and his stab is boosted by sunlight.
He also usually runs mixed sets due to his lack of a movepool so isn't countered by rare skarmory.
Heres my arcanine:
Barky
Arcanine
naive nature
choice band
extreme speed
over heat
flare blitz
toxic

 

[gengod]

This has nothing to do with anything as both are marked as failed pokemon.

Why is Dugtrio a failure? It works just fine. It works wonders for catching Scarfed or Specs users caught using Thunder which are both quite common in Ubers as well as taking out things like Metagross, Jirachi, Lati@s and Wobbuffet with the appropriate sets.

 

[Matthew]

Why is Dugtrio a failure? It works just fine. It works wonders for catching Scarfed or Specs users caught using Thunder which are both quite common in Ubers as well as taking out things like Metagross, Jirachi, Lati@s and Wobbuffet with the appropriate sets.

I talked about it with some people and we decided that the advantages that Dugtrio gives does not out weigh the disadvantages of being set up on, and the fact it is extremely frail.

EDIT:
Also Lati@s are slowly declining in Usage, so using Dugtrio just to counter them would be an issue. Secondly Scizor is chosen over Metagross is most cases (though there are a few). Wobbuffet is true, as is Jirachi, though Jirachi has a tendency to U-turn out right away

 

[gengod]

Some of your points are true, but to say it is an outright failure is taking it a bit far. Its situational to some degree but to less of an extent than some of the other Pokemon currently listed as viable

 

[Matthew]

Well the problem with Dugtrio is the fact it relies almost completely on revenge kills, as it can't switch in; it isn't impossible to get on a Wobbuffet, but compared to the other extremely bulky or fast sweepers then maybe best case deal around 50% to it and you lose your Dugtrio. You're down two pokemon and your opponent maybe has a weakened threat, which is ok on its own. I just don't see how Dugtrio can be effective in this metagame.

EDIT:

I see a point now of "How do I switch in something like Shiftry in?" which now stands out to me more than before.

 

[Terminator]

Dugtrio just plain sucks, switching into Choice Specs Thunders and trapping others isn't enough to make it a good Pokemon. It's frail and any Pokemon with a priority move will kill it, while the Bulkier stuff in Ubers can do so as well by resisting its attacks...It also doesn't hit hard enough...

 

[Mia [old]]

I talked about it with some people and we decided that the advantages that Dugtrio gives does not out weigh the disadvantages of being set up on, and the fact it is extremely frail.

The people you talked to should justify themselves. Dugtrio is extremely effective at what it does and has a rather high level of unique utility even compared to most of the OU tier.

 

[Voltron]

I want to test Victreebel but before I jump into it, any thoughts on the set? It looks like it will be a support pokemon as I don't see 105 and 100 attacking stats cutting it with the poor type coverage. Victreebel has some really interesting moves Sleep Powder looks like a must, Encore, Knock Off, Thief, Worry Seed, Tickle, etc. could have some use. Here's what I'm thinking

Victreebel (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Encore/Stun Spore
---

The EVs give it 506 speed in the sun which will outspeed everything but positive nature choice scarf Mewtwo and Darkrai. I can't decide whether the paralysis or free set up when Victreebel dies via encore would be more helpful, I'm leaning towards Encore. Maybe I'll drop Hp Ice for both too. I don't know if Victreebel can really do anything better than Exeggutor and Jumpluff but maybe we'll see.

 

[Snowphones]

Just wanted to point out...
Vaporeon - Failed - Tank, Vaporeon just lacks the power needed to withstand the power in the Uber tier. He is average defenses and resistances that almost mean nothing in the tier itself.

I think the first power should be defenses.

 

[Farewell]

Since the general Uber discussion thread is gone (page 3, like a month old), I'm going to ask here. Hope that's not an issue. What are some good ways to cushion Dragon attacks? I know "use steels" but what else? I often find myself Encoring a dragon attack with Wobb and literally having nothing to take it outside of Dialga, which can't take advantage of it.

EDIT: It's not that I hate using steels, I just doubt their effectiveness in Ubers as a whole. Thanks for the response Jibaku.

Shedinja.

Blocks Kyogre, some dragons (Lati@s), other dragons that lack Fire Blast (depending on their set like EQ vs Fire Blast Rayquaza).

Sure, it dies to weather and Stealth Rock, but with your point on Kingdra, I am guessing you have Kyogre support, and possibly a Rapid Spinner (as Rain teams hate Toxic Spikes).

 

[Jibaku]

This thread is locked under the fact that there is almost no interest to keep this going. When a substantial amount of interest picks up this will be reopened.