Protests in Egypt

polelover44

polelover44

this is a serious thread so please don't troll it.

Here's a timeline of all the events that have been happening since the protests started Jan. 25th:

TUESDAY: Jan. 25 - Thousands of Egyptians demand an end to Mubarak's rule and clash with police in a "Day of Wrath" of anti-government demonstrations inspired by the downfall of Tunisia's President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali on Jan. 14.

-- Protests also take place in Ismailia and Suez, east of Cairo, and in other Nile Delta cities.

WEDNESDAY: Jan. 26 - In unprecedented scenes, police fight with thousands of Egyptians who defy a government ban to protest against Mubarak's rule. Security forces arrest about 500 demonstrators over the two days, the Interior Ministry says.

THURSDAY: Jan. 27 - Reform campaigner and former head of the IAEA, Mohamed ElBaradei arrives in Cairo.

FRIDAY: Jan. 28 - At least 24 people are killed and more than 1,000 wounded in clashes throughout Egypt, 13 are killed in Suez. Mubarak extends a curfew to all cities in Egypt.

-- Mubarak orders troops and tanks into cities overnight to quell demonstrations. Thousands cheer at the news of the intervention of the army, which is seen as neutral, unlike the police who are regularly deployed to stifle dissent.

SATURDAY: Jan. 29 - Mubarak sacks his cabinet but refuses to step down after a day of violent protests.

-- Protesters stream back into Cairo's central Tahrir Square in the early hours after Mubarak announces, in an address broadcast shortly after midnight, he is sacking Egypt's government and is committed to reform.

-- Later Mubarak picks intelligence chief and confidante, Omar Suleiman, as vice president.

-- Thousands of protesters continue to roam the streets after the 4 p.m. (1400 GMT) curfew starts, defying an army warning that anyone violating the order would be in danger.

-- Egyptians form vigilante groups and assign private doormen armed with sticks to guard property after police withdraw from the streets.

-- Internet goes down

SUNDAY: Jan. 30 - U.S. President Barack Obama urges an "orderly transition" to democracy in Egypt, stopping short of calling on Mubarak to step down.

-- ElBaradei tells protesters in Cairo that an uprising against Mubarak's rule "cannot go back".

-- Mubarak meets with military.

-- Breakout at Tora Prison - dozens dead, thousands escaped

MONDAY: Jan. 31 - Egypts's army says it will not use force against Egyptians staging protests. It says "freedom of expression" is guaranteed to all citizens using peaceful means.

-- Egypt swears in a new government.

-- Suleiman says Mubarak has asked him to start dialogue with all political forces, including on constitutional and legislative reforms.

-- Thousands in Tahrir Square hours after curfew, in a good-natured gathering, calling for the president to quit.

TUESDAY: Feb. 1 - Mubarak declares he will surrender power in September, offering a mixture of concessions and defiance in a televised statement.

-- Around one million Egyptians protest throughout the country for Mubarak to step down. More than 200,000 Egyptians rally in Cairo for Mubarak and his government to quit.

-- In Alexandria, Egypt's second city, troops in tanks fire shots in the air to keep order.

-- Egypt's central bank says the country's banks will remain closed for a third day amid protests. Egypt's stock exchange also announces it will be closed for the fourth day, on Feb. 2.

-- Many protesters speak of a new push on Friday, the Egyptian weekend, to rally at Cairo's presidential palace.

WEDNESDAY: Feb 2 - The army calls for protesters to leave the streets and curfew hours are eased. Crowds gather in Tahrir Square for a ninth day of protest, rejecting Mubarak's timetable. Banners read "The people demand the fall of the regime".

-- Spokesman Mustafa Naggar, says the opposition is ready to negotiate with Suleiman only after Mubarak steps down.

-- The internet goes back up

THURSDAY: Feb 3 - Violence breaks back out as pro-Mubarak protesters attack reporters and foreigners, Prime Minister apologizes, admits attacks may have been previously organized.

-- It is announced that Mubarak's son, Gamal, will not run to succeed his father when the term expires.

-- Soldiers move between two sides of supporters, push back pro-government attackers

-- Clashes resume in afternoon as military steps aside, peaking when gunfire sounds

-- Military moves back in, clearing highway overpass of Mubarak supporters. Several hundred soldiers carrying rifles move between the two sides.


FRIDAY, Feb. 11

-- after a major psyche out, Mubarak resigns, handing over the reigns to the military council




I will update this post whenever something big happens (or something I've forgotten); in the meantime discuss!
 
tgo9W.jpg

Anyway, this is a really interesting scenario, but I don't really know enough to discuss it in detail. Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. Big things could happen because of this in regards to relationships between nations etc. and it's going to be exciting if something good comes out of this.

The whole censorship deal is kind of whack but I guess people are finding their way around it, and google is providing some voicemail service where they turn your voicemails into tweets or something. But some people are just being complete fucks and phoning in to make jokes or something.
 
This is just my thoughts atm, but Mubarak has actually been very diplomatic as far as arabic leaders go, and his replacements will more than likely be the cause to worsened relationships between other countries, even those that have been stable for the entire, very long duration of Mubarak's leadership. I don't see much "plus" since, well, frankly, I am not linked in any way to the residents of Egypt and their proclaimed suffering, although it was nice to see a real modern revolution, something you'd think had happened only in the 19th century.

In conculsion.. "eh". I'd rather it just stayed calm.
 
Yeah there's like riots there now.
I saw some people try to get away on camelback on the news and people started punching them and throwing stuff at them.
Poor camels... :(
 
On January 30th, there was a breakout at Tora Prison

Btw. Not Scicky you conveniently forgot to mention that in 2003 Baghdad was a war zone (not to mention its population is magnitudes smaller than Cairo's). Well, I guess as long as you get your digs in at the Iraq War that's fine and dandy. But trying to compare a war zone where most people are still trying to get food, water, and supplies to a big rah-rah protest rally where people fluctuate between peacefulness and violence isn't quite logical. Saddam Hussein was already deposed at that point, not actively terrorizing Iraqis.

Here's another good test of "Real Democratic Revolution":

Iran_today_07_48302_483811a.jpg

Answer:
No. This is the Iranian Revolution that put Ayatollah Khomeni into power, a ruthless theocrat who still runs Iran, with Mahmoud Achmadinijad as his frontman in the Iranian Presidency.

Case in point being people flooding the streets is not an indication of support for an actual democracy. It's a good front if you want to hoodwink westerners, but a change in government from Mubarak is not neccesarily better for the United States, the Middle East, or the world in general. It's important not to get too excited (positively) about it. If tons of Americans started protesting in the streets attempting to overthrow Obama, would you be ecstatic about a group of people seeking a real redress of grievances or say "oh crap those Tea Party people are serious!"
 
Deck Knight said:
On January 30th, there was a breakout at Tora Prison

Btw. Not Scicky you conveniently forgot to mention that in 2003 Baghdad was a war zone (not to mention its population is magnitudes smaller than Cairo's). Well, I guess as long as you get your digs in at the Iraq War that's fine and dandy. But trying to compare a war zone where most people are still trying to get food, water, and supplies to a big rah-rah protest rally where people fluctuate between peacefulness and violence isn't quite logical. Saddam Hussein was already deposed at that point, not actively terrorizing Iraqis.
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Deck Knight? More like Deck Right. Get it? As in right-wing?

But jokes aside, I just snagged that picture from another site, I was actually debating removing the Iraq part from the picture because I knew someone would call me out on it, and all I wanted to show was just how many people are protesting in Egypt. I do have my opinions about the Iraq war, but that's not for this thread. :)

You're right though, it's not really an apt comparison.
 
My grandmother is actually over there right now on vacation and I have a lot of family in Egypt. It's been very worrying for my family x:
 
The people have the right to revolt. This guy has been in office for something like 32 years. He clearly does not reflect the feelings of the people, and the people of the country have the right to overthrow the current dictator and replace him with someone else if they are unhappy. This is by all means a democratic revolution, the people are rioting because they want to be represented in government properly.
But I don't know how good this revolution is. The people claim that they are fed up with the economy, but they really can't pin the whole economy on this one guy. Hosni Mubarak has also been one of the few cooperative leaders of the Arab countries, and it will be a shame to see him go. He has cooperated with the US and has made peace with Israel. He has been fairly diplomatic and has resolved most issues the country has encountered. The only problem is that once he is overthrown, the only people who know how to run the government are the radical Islamicists. These guys will take control of the government and turn Egypt into a nation just like Iran. The Muslim Brotherhood will end the peace with both the US and Israel and will possibly turn Egypt into another safeground for terrorists. The US just fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to get rid of this home base for terrorists, and now this new government is supplying them with a fresh, government protected base. Furthermore, they can threaten Israel and almost hold Israel as a hostage against the US, saying "Do what we want, or we blow this place up". So this new government that will be put in place is extremely detrimental to the US and Israel.

So the people have the right to riot, but they really don't know what's good for them. The people they are supporting will hurt them more than their current government. But the will of the people is the will of the people, and Hosni Mubarak is not welcome on Egyptian soil anymore.
 
cookie said:
buy stocks in oil. NOW
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Is this really such a great idea? (Not a rhetorical question.) If the Sudan Canal doesn't close, oil will probably drop in price because it recently spiked just out of fear for the Sudan closing. And would a stock in oil matter if the Sudan did close because the actual oil would cost the same it would just cost a great deal more to ship?

Oh and something really surprising: The dictator listened to Obama

Edit: Sorry I might have ment Suez not Sudan, not sure about that
 
If anything, if that oil is cut off then I will suddenly be up to my ass in work up at the oil sands. That is the largest unexploited oil resource around and the Peace River reservoir is just about the same size. The first world will have its oil, especially with the reclamation techniques (I've seen them, the land is indistinguishable after they are done) and new methods of dealing with tailings (see: Duck sponges).

Hippies only have so much clout to slow down development.
 
Deck Knight said:
No. This is the Iranian Revolution that put Ayatollah Khomeni into power, a ruthless theocrat who still runs Iran, with Mahmoud Achmadinijad as his frontman in the Iranian Presidency.
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Now I know you believe in dead people coming back to life and all that, but this is a little unreasonable.

Deck Knight said:
Case in point being people flooding the streets is not an indication of support for an actual democracy. It's a good front if you want to hoodwink westerners, but a change in government from Mubarak is not neccesarily better for the United States, the Middle East, or the world in general. It's important not to get too excited (positively) about it.
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I completely agree here. The outcome of these revolutions is unclear at the moment, at best. Highly unlikely that the new Egyptian government will cave as easily to US requests, but there is still a good chance that it won't become theocratic. A 32-year dictatorship had to come to an end at some point, now's the time to see if the US can ally itself with a popular Egyptian government.
However I think a popular revolution is probably the best transition from dictatorship. Coups or otherwise are far less likely to result in a democracy.

Zacchaeus said:
Is this really such a great idea? (Not a rhetorical question.) If the Suez Canal doesn't close, oil will probably drop in price because it recently spiked just out of fear for the Suez closing. And would a stock in oil matter if the Suez did close because the actual oil would cost the same it would just cost a great deal more to ship?

Oh and something really surprising: The dictator listened to Obama
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Oil prices haven't really spiked yet, and if the Canal closes things will get far worse. Also why is it surprising at all that Mubarak listened to Obama, he's been a western ally for 30 years, and will obviously need the US's support if he even wants to stay on temporarily as leader.
 
billymills said:
Also why is it surprising at all that Mubarak listened to Obama, he's been a western ally for 30 years, and will obviously need the US's support if he even wants to stay on temporarily as leader.
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Even if he has been allied with us, nobody likes Obama, and it seems that acting favorably towards him is almost a bad move in countries that don't like the USA or Obama particularly, around countries with those opinions, or allied with other countries with those opinions.

Sorry I probably was and am generalizing (stereotyping) a bit but this is all from what I've heard and seen as far as USA foreign affairs

And raised was a better word than spiked for my original post
 
evan said:
The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt are the largest opposition party to the regime of Mubarak. However, they have sworn off organised violence since around the time of Sadat's assassination. Further, when you discuss rising Islamist sentiment, you need to think in context. Egypt has been a very secular state throughout its history, preferring Arab nationalism and Egyptian nationalism as guiding ideologies. When you have a secular dictator oppressing the people, it is easy to see how in a majority muslim country the reaction of he oppressed is to become more religious as a means of protest.

You can look at the events of 1979 in Iran as a similar example where an American supported, secular dictator eventually is overthrown by rising popular sentiment and a notably anti-American, Islamist (Shi'a in this case) government is set up.

As a student of foreign policy, I have been wrestling with "the Egypt Question" for the past four days or so. Egypt is a valuable ally in the region, has a significant peace treaty with Israel, and is in control of the Suez Canal, an important piece of the global trade economy. Losing Egypt to an anti-American Egyptian government would be immediately "less good" for our interests abroad than if the Mubarak regime remained for a while longer.

However, when I begin to think about the contextual reasons, I can't help but come to the conclusion that the Egyptian people have shown that they are finally ready to stand up and revolt, putting a time limit on Mubarak's regime. It is possible that this rage will simmer down with a harsh enough crackdown and enough time, but it is clear that Mubarak's regime has been greatly weakened and the citizens are no longer as scared as they used to be to protest. For this reason, I think it is in America's best interest to support the protestors and push for legitimate democratic reforms in Egypt to ensure that all different views get a voice in a new Egyptian government. Yes, that will result in likely a majority for a party that is Islamist and anto-American, but done right you can also give voice to the other minorities that exist in Egypt and attempt to escape the trap that we fell into during the Iranian revolution (probably because of the Cold War) where we clung far too long to an oppressive dictator whose legitimacy was never accepted by the people and thus tarnished our image in their political thinking.

Further, should the new Egyptian government turn out to be just as authoritarian and unaccepting of democratic reforms and dissent, well, we saw what happened in Iran. Similar to the Mubarak regime in Egypt, Ahmadinejad's time in Iran is running up. If governments can't respond to the needs and desires of the people, time and time again we will see them fall no matter how hard they try to oppress them.

tl;dr: Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood have a long and storied past. Mubarak is an American ally but his regime is on its deathbed so American assistance propping him up will be better for us in the short term but much worse in the long. America should support the push for major democratic reforms in Egypt and face the inevitable.
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my, admittedly rambling, thoughts on the egyptian protests and their impact on american foreign policy from last thread.
 
I really can't see this going well unfortunately. The best case scenario that I can think of (I'm thinking from the Egyptians standpoint, not America or anything) is Mubarak fleeing and the next president (whether it be that new VP) doing his best to facilitate a proper election. I can't see that happening in any way, unfortunately.

I'm interesting how the Israel-Egypt relations go from here. Muslims (90% of the population?) were never stoked about it and if the Egyptians can get proper elections going, I'm wondering how the people there will accept leaders making deals with the US for allying with Israel, if they accept it at all. I'm not well versed in politics, please enlighten me.

Still, Mubaraks tactics are sickening, sending out the fake supporters (as it seems multiple sources are confirming). Hope the fighting itself can stop. I have a few friends studying abroad in Egypt trying to secure flights home.
 
my friend who was in the protests yesterday has passed away due to a blow to the head. RIP MUSTAFA AL-REFAI, my brother in arms, my brother in metal, hope you're happy up there with dio and chuck.

i hope that Mubarak will drop the fuck dead, the vp or anyone with even a sense of justice will being a fair election, a man or woman with a strong sense of justice will lead Egypt into a new era.

daydreaming aside, Egypt is in chaos, Mubarak won't let go, everyone wants him to get the fuck out, thugs are hitting people left and right and center, people are falling dead AS WE SPEAK, and the military isn't doing anything. more and more people are joining in tahrir square, and they're fired up like it's war or death.

keep in mind that this isn't a protest for the youth, nor is it for any sect, this is for egypt, and egypt alone.

so mubarak was in his plane, and he decided to make a family happy by throwing 100 dollars. his wife said "make them two 50s and make 2 families happy.", his son said "no dad, make it four 25s and make 4 families happy.", the pilot said "sir, with all due respect, throw yourself outside and make 70 million families happy. (yeah that was lame =/)
 
If you're so upset and your friend died, do something more than daydream. Rally, be a forerunner. I'm NOT condoning or suggesting you risk your life but I would like to say to do what you think is right, not for revenge, but for how you feel about what you want Egypt to be and how YOU can shape its future and the future of many emerging countries in that area. You have the power of voice right now, more than I've ever had or probably could ever dream of in complacent old Canada: "The worlds peacekeeper". For example, you COULD try go out tomorrow morning and get a shitload of pissed off protestors to put down their weapons or signs and SIT THE FUCK DOWN and peacefully set an example. You have so much power in a group, if that group is sitting down and praying, eating, WHATEVER IT IS JUST NOT PRODUCTIVE you will have an immense impact, especially if you get enough of them...or you could do something stupid, whatever. Once they are calm they will probably see reason more likely than not. I dunno how it is over there, I can't imagine, but if it was me I'd feel I have two options: convert to mob mentality or do something more appropriate than my friend dying and feeling bad and wishing ill upon leadership you aren't doing anything to subvert. You have more power than you know, even in peace.

Step up and do what you can or don't, clearly your friend made choices (right or wrong, I can't comment) and I'm sure he would condone you making choices for yourself too. I am not sorry for you loss, what I would be sorry for is you not being inspired to something more than he was because of it.
 
Morm, if i were in Egypt atm, i wouldn't be sitting on my ass. i would be out there, with my friends. I'm not Egyptian, but half of my friends are, and they're participating. they're participating in something that's bigger than me, something that will change and make history books, and all i can do is sit here and watch the news. F. M. L.
 
Fingers are crossed that elections happen and El Baradei ends up in the top spot... but being realistic there's always the possibility of the army giving them that "fuck you" moment and turning it into a military run nation.

Only time will tell, though.
 
In general this is good news, and I know many people I know are happy for them. Relating to this part of our community has a group that wants to protest (most of us don't want to though), I guess our King got scared/wanted to somewhat "remedy" this, and he said he'll give us 1000 BD (2659.57 US$) for each family.
 
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