[QC Ready 0/3] Garchomp

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Sprocket

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This is pending the new analysis format, but this should be ready for feedback/QC.


Sharknado VGC edition

[Pros]

<UL>
<LI>Very high 130 base Attack, respectable 102 base Speed</LI>
<LI>Dragon and Ground STABS are nearly unresisted in VGC2014 (only resisted by Skarmory)</LI>
<LI>Immune to Thunder Wave, and Electric attacks in general</LI>
<LI>Respectable bulk</LI>
<LI>Access to Mega Evolution</LI>
</UL>

[Cons]

<UL>
<LI>Crippling weakness to Ice attacks, weakness to Fairy and Dragon attacks</LI>
<LI>Predictable offensive move pool</LI>
<LI>Mega Evolution requires Sand support to be most effective</LI>
<LI>Susceptible to Burn status, and opposing Intimidate</LI>
</UL>

[Set Recommendations]

Set Name: Standard Attacker
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Yache Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Fire Fang
- Protect / Substitute

  • Garchomp's Standard Set, provides perfect neutral coverage to the entire metagame
  • Dragon Claw deals strong single target damage
  • Earthquake is strong spread damage
  • Rock Slide for spread damage and a chance to flinch, but deals less single target damage than Dragon Claw
  • Stone Edge for strong single target damage, almost guaranteed OHKO on Charizard and Talonflame
  • Fire Fang deals significantly more damage to Scizor and Abomasnow, OKHOing most variants
  • Protect is Protect, eases prediction and protects Garchomp from most forms of damage. Substitute can be used as additional protection against status.
  • Life Orb for increased damage, turns some 2HKOs into OHKOs (such as Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y)
  • Sand Veil ability takes advantage of the ever-prevalent Tyranitar, boosting evasion while Sand is up.
  • Yache Berry is an option to sometimes prevent a OHKO from Ice attacks (depending on the attacker), but some Pokemon can OHKO thru it.
  • Jolly nature and 252 speed EV is needed to speed tie rival Garchomps and to outspeed base 100 speed Pokemon, 252 atk for maximum physical damage.
  • Choice Scarf set is viable, outspeeding the entire unboosted metagame.
  • Sand Veil + Bright Powder is an option given the prevalence of Tyranitar and lack of evasion clause. Under Sand Garchomp is much more difficult to hit and KO, but this is a risky strategy.
  • Can run a mixed set, swapping Jolly nature for Naive and including Draco Meteor or Fire Blast as desired.
  • Garchomp needs no support to perform its job, but Safeguard helps protect against Burn and Sleep status, which end its sweep
  • Dragon Rush hits harder than Dragon Claw, but accuracy is shaky.
Set Name: Mega Garchomp
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil -> Sand Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Protect / Substitute
  • Plays almost the same to Standard set, but has significantly more powerful Earthquakes and Rock Slides/Stone Edges in Sand
  • Monstrous 170 base attack after Mega Evolution
  • Sand Support from Tyranitar or Hippowdon is highly recommended so that Sand Force activates
  • Inside sand, Mega Garchomp has some of the strongest Earthquakes and Rock Slides / Stone Edges in the entire game. Outside of Sand it approaches Life Orb Garchomp damage without the recoil.
  • Significant speed drop from base 102 to base 92; Pokemon that it could outspeed before are now serious threats such as Jolly Haxorus, Hydreigon and Salamence
  • Like standard Garchomp, Mega Garchomp has the stats to run run a mixed set, changing to a -SpDef nature and running Draco Meteor or Fire Blast as desired.
  • Due to holding Garchompnite, very susceptible to status and ice attacks. Team support with Safeguard or Light Screen is highly desired.
Set Name: Sharknado (Sand Veil abuse)
Garchomp @ Bright Powder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Rock Slide
- Protect / Substitute

  • Set is explicitly designed to make Garchomp a difficult Pokemon to hit, and therefore KO.
  • Under Sand, Sand Veil and Bright Powder increase evasion to 30%
  • Dragon Claw provides strong single target damage, while Earthquake provides strong spread damage.
  • Substitute is recommended to further make it hard for opponent to score a direct hit
  • Protect is Protect, preventing the opponent from damaging Garchomp
  • Rock Slide is a spread attack can induce flinches, making it even more difficult for the opponent to score damage.
  • Sandstorm support is highly recommended. Tyranitar and Hippowdon can both provide 5 turn Sandstorm to trigger Sand Veil thanks to their Sand Stream ability. Also works to turn opposing Tyranitar's Sand Stream against them.
Set Name: Choice Scarf Pivot
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 156 HP / 228 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-Iron Head/Fire Fang/Rock Slide
  • With this spread, guaranteed to outspeed base 135s (Mega Manectric and slower) and still have enough firepower to OHKO/2HKO several notable threats
  • Survives unboosted Hidden Power Ice from most threats, as well as unboosted Ice Shard from Mamoswine and Mega Abomasnow
  • Dragon Claw and Earthquake are standard STABs.
  • Stone Edge provides very strong single target damage, guaranteed to OHKO Mega Charizard Y and OHKO Talonflame through a Charti Berry (after Brave Bird/Flare Blitz recoil damage)
  • Rock Slide provides spread damage. Noticeably weaker than Stone Edge, but has a chance to cause both opponents to flinch.
  • Iron Head provides strong single target damage versus Fairies, and deals more damage versus Rock and Ice Types than Earthquake/Stone Edge
  • Fire Fang lets Garchomp bite through the defenses of Steel types like Skarmory and Scizor, as well as threaten Abomasnow.
  • This set acts more like a defensive pivot than a sweeper: Come in on something fast that Garchomp can handle defensively, and outspeed, netting surprise KOs. Though it can handle several threats, it works best once key threats are already weakened.


[Checks and Counters]
  • Protean Greninja is almost completely guaranteed a OHKO with Ice Beam even through a Yache Berry
  • Mega Abomasnow will usually OHKO thru a Yache Berry, but it risks a OHKO in return from Stone Edge or Fire Fang.
  • Other Pokemon with Ice-type attacks threaten a OHKO even thru a Yache Berry, but all must beware a powerful retaliation
  • Mawile can switch in on Dragon Claw and Intimidate before activating Mega Stone, and OKHO with Play Rough, but it cannot safely switch into Earthquake.
  • All Fairy types in general threaten with strong Fairy attacks and can freely switch into Dragon Claw
  • Intimidate users in general will reduce Garchomp's effectiveness, turning some of Garchomp's 2HKOs into 3HKOs
  • Garchomp is completely powerless under Trick Room, often moving last due to its high base speed.
  • Burn status from Will-O-Wisp makes Garchomp much more manageable.
  • Changing the weather away from Sand will nullify Sand Veil and Sand Force bonuses, but Garchomp is still potent even outside favorable weather.
 
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Because it is VGC and Tyranitar is likely to be a large part of the metagame, still being legal (even with the weather nerf), Sand Veil should still get mentioned in garcomp's standard sets, especially any sub set
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
Because it is VGC and Tyranitar is likely to be a large part of the metagame, still being legal (even with the weather nerf), Sand Veil should still get mentioned in garcomp's standard sets, especially any sub set
I'm not sure if we are doing an other options category for VGC analysis, but if we are i'll add it to the OO. Otherwise yeah I'll mention it on the main set. Rough Skin is just better overall imo.
 
I'm not sure if we are doing an other options category for VGC analysis, but if we are i'll add it to the OO. Otherwise yeah I'll mention it on the main set. Rough Skin is just better overall imo.
No ones going to try to hit a Gchomp with a direct physical move anyways, i say that sand veil is better overall in the case of VGC's. Lets you occasionally dodge things that would normally kill letting you score a kill on your opponent possibly
 
I believe that yache berry deserve at least a slash seeing as how popular mat block greninja is on doubles.

252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 288-338 (80.4 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

but this is on speculation that Greninja is legal on VGC '14 with the whole kalos region only restriction (no hidden ability starter)

else,

252 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 188-222 (52.5 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

rocky helmet really isn't a good item on a poke who is often checked by special sweeper. sitrus berry maybe even better.

banditking15 is right. with t-tar everywhere odds are you'll even encounter an opposing t-tar, or just bring your own (that assault vest ttar is a beast).
sand veil is just too good to pass off.
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
I believe that yache berry deserve at least a slash seeing as how popular mat block greninja is on doubles.

252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 288-338 (80.4 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You left off where every Greninja pretty much runs Life Orb or Expert Belt. Also you weren't accounting for level 50 vs level 100.

252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 182-216 (98.9 - 117.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 202-238 (109.7 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 198-234 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And max Special Defense Megachomp for good measure:
252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Garchomp: 204-240 (94.8 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

I'd go as far as to say that Greninja is the single biggest threat to Garchomp in the entire Metagame; unless its crippled in some manner, it WILL OHKO Garchomp.

Protean Greninja is very, very legal in VGC2014. As long as the Pokemon is in the Kalos dex and caught/captured in Kalos, it is a legal Pokemon. That includes hidden ability starters.

I'll go ahead and add a specific Sand Veil abuse set with Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Substitute/Rock Slide, Protect.
 
I believe that yache berry deserve at least a slash seeing as how popular mat block greninja is on doubles.

252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 288-338 (80.4 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

but this is on speculation that Greninja is legal on VGC '14 with the whole kalos region only restriction (no hidden ability starter)

else,

252 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 188-222 (52.5 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

rocky helmet really isn't a good item on a poke who is often checked by special sweeper. sitrus berry maybe even better.

banditking15 is right. with t-tar everywhere odds are you'll even encounter an opposing t-tar, or just bring your own (that assault vest ttar is a beast).
sand veil is just too good to pass off.
Hidden abilities *are* allowed if I recall correctly, kalosdex is just a species restriction, and kalos native doesn't affect greninja as they are breedable in game with the HA
 
proposing scarfchomp as a set

Set Name: Sharknado (Sand Veil abuse)
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 156 HP / 228 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Iron Head / Fire Fang / Rock Slide

with scarf, chomper can allocate more evs to hp to make it a slightly better defensive privot while being able to outspeed mega manectric and the like for surprise ko's, and you don't really have to worry about speed tying with other chomps either. i prefer stone edge for power, but there are times when i would much rather have rock slide, so there's not much harm in running them both since they can fulfill different things along with the fact that the 4th slot is filler anyway.

also on most sets i think rough skin has more utility than sand veil nowadays with mega kanga running around everywhere and sand only lasting for 5 turns.
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
proposing scarfchomp as a set

Set Name: Sharknado (Sand Veil abuse)
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 156 HP / 228 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
Could you explain this EV spread more? I ran the numbers and a modest scarfed Hydreigon outspeeds.
 
I just aimed for outspeeding mega manectric and living weaker unstabbed ice beams/ mamo ice shard without a boost

Also scarf hydreigon is a dumb idea; id be more concerned with gardevoir
 
Should check the scarf evs vs other scarfers as well, not just unscarfed, as scarfed pokemon are rather popular in vgc. That'll be easier once we get an actual metagame, but still worth noting. Also I think you should check those evs vs the swift swimmers as well, because weather is nerfed, not dead.
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
Should check the scarf evs vs other scarfers as well, not just unscarfed, as scarfed pokemon are rather popular in vgc. That'll be easier once we get an actual metagame, but still worth noting. Also I think you should check those evs vs the swift swimmers as well, because weather is nerfed, not dead.
The Scarf set that Lucariojr provided is for countering most unboosted Pokemon and serving as a defensive pivot. Even a Jolly Scarf Garchomp cannot outspeed a Swift Swim Kingdra or Chlorophyll Venusaur if either invest in enough speed EVs, even if they run a neutral nature.

Scarf 252 speed Jolly Garchomp: 169 speed * 1.5 = 253 speed
Swift Swim 252 speed Modest Kingdra: 137 speed * 2 = 274
Swift Swim 172 speed Modest Kingdra: 127 speed * 2 = 254 speed
Chlorophyll 252 speed Modest Venusaur: 132 speed * 2 = 264
Chlorophyll 212 speed Modest Venusaur: 127 speed * 2 = 254

Realistically a scarfed Garchomp can only get the jump on its opponents if they aren't packing a choice scarf themselves or they aren't running trick room/tailwind, and to make Garchomp vs Garchomp matchups slightly less risky (though a Choice Scarf Garchomp misses the OHKO on other Garchomps unless it runs Outrage, which is extremely risky)
 

Martin

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remove any mentions of stone edge from the analysis. there is no reason to use it in a doubles environment

the scarf set shouldn't be a pivot as you don't want to switch too much in doubles, although i feel that it isn't needed on the analysis as being locked into a move is risky in doubles for that reason - especially with all those Aromatisse running around to take on Garchomp locked into Dragon Claw or Dual Chop

Remove mentions of Fire Fang and replace them with Fire Blast / Flamethrower as they both out-damage even with Garchomp's lower spec. attack stat and give a hasty nature over Jolly when using it

I feel that Iron Head deserves a mention on most sets rather than just one - especially the mega set due to sand force - as it hits fairies such as the aformentioned Aromatisse super effectively on their generally weaker defense stat
 
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TheMantyke

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Sprocket, if you're still around, please switch your analysis over to the new format.

As for the contents of this analysis, I disagree with the current sets you have listed. I prefer the sets listed instead be:
  • Standard Attacker
  • Choice Scarf
  • Mixed Mega Attacker
I don't think an Evasion centric set or puely phyiscal mega should get its own set. Tyranitar isn't as potent as it has been in previous formats and can be kind of underwhelming at times. A purely physical mega still deserves mention, but maybe moreso as a slashed item in the analysis

Set Name: Standard Attacker
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin / Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Swords Dance / Substitute
- Protect

I don't think that Fire Fang deserves mention since it doesn't hit much that's important. Stone Edge alongside Dual Chop I'd like to see listed in Other Options since they are generally lackluster choices but have specific niches (Stone Edge being useful to still KO charizard and Talonflame even if you get burned or intimidated, Dual Chop allows you to slash through berries, sashes and sturdy). I think that Swords Dance deserves a slash since it allows Garchomp an option to get around intimidate. Substitute does that as well while blocking status, but isn't helping you on the turn the intimidate user is switched in. Rough Skin I think is the best ability for chomp because of the utility of chip damage, but Sand Veil still deserves the secondary slash, even though Tyranitar is a lot weaker than in previous formats. Also, be sure to mention the cavolcade of viable items alongside the primary slashes, like Yache Berry, Garchompite, and Focus Sash

I'll allow you to write up a mixed mega set yourself since it sounds fairly straightforward. Make sure there's a central focus on Draco Metoer, though.

For the Choice Scarf set, I'd say with the popularity of Scarf Salamence, it might be worthwhile to simply Run Jolly max / max so you can get off an attack before you get draco metoered. From there, make Rock Slide the primary slash on the third move, then list out I suppose Dual Chop, Iron Head, and maybe Outrage in the last slot, being sure to convey the last slot is filler.

Also, overall, the teammates your listing are fairly lacking. Try to give some more specific examples, like Scarf Garde, Scarf Mence, Talonflame, Rotom-W, and breifly explain why they're so helpful.

Once you get that out of the way, I'm willing to give this a QC check.
 
Unlike in gen 5 you almost never want to be without Rock Slide/Stone Edge on Garchomp. Talonflame and Charizard are everywhere and Garchomp is one of the easiest counters to fit into a team. If you must put a slash over something it should be Dragon Claw since it doesn't get many notable KOs without a boosting item.

On the topic of items, I think Focus Sash is better in a general sense than Yache Berry since it lets it take on faster dragons as well as Unnerve Pyroar and Greninja. Rocky Helmet should also get a slot on the main set. 58% to Mega Kangaskhan is nothing to sneeze at when it's already able to survive most of its attacks, outspeed it, and deal close to 42% back. Garchomp is one of only two common Pokemon able to do that and really anything that can take care of Mega Kangaskhan helps. Lum Berry should also be up there, as it helps with burns and is one of the top 3 most used items on Garchomp (after, well, Rocky Helmet and Focus Sash; not that many people even use Life Orb).
 
Last edited:

Martin

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Sprocket, if you're still around, please switch your analysis over to the new format.

As for the contents of this analysis, I disagree with the current sets you have listed. I prefer the sets listed instead be:
  • Standard Attacker
  • Choice Scarf
  • Mixed Mega Attacker
I don't think an Evasion centric set or puely phyiscal mega should get its own set. Tyranitar isn't as potent as it has been in previous formats and can be kind of underwhelming at times. A purely physical mega still deserves mention, but maybe moreso as a slashed item in the analysis

Set Name: Standard Attacker
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Haban Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin / Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Swords Dance / Substitute
- Protect

I don't think that Fire Fang deserves mention since it doesn't hit much that's important. Stone Edge alongside Dual Chop I'd like to see listed in Other Options since they are generally lackluster choices but have specific niches (Stone Edge being useful to still KO charizard and Talonflame even if you get burned or intimidated, Dual Chop allows you to slash through berries, sashes and sturdy). I think that Swords Dance deserves a slash since it allows Garchomp an option to get around intimidate. Substitute does that as well while blocking status, but isn't helping you on the turn the intimidate user is switched in. Rough Skin I think is the best ability for chomp because of the utility of chip damage, but Sand Veil still deserves the secondary slash, even though Tyranitar is a lot weaker than in previous formats. Also, be sure to mention the cavolcade of viable items alongside the primary slashes, like Yache Berry, Garchompite, and Focus Sash

I'll allow you to write up a mixed mega set yourself since it sounds fairly straightforward. Make sure there's a central focus on Draco Metoer, though.

For the Choice Scarf set, I'd say with the popularity of Scarf Salamence, it might be worthwhile to simply Run Jolly max / max so you can get off an attack before you get draco metoered. From there, make Rock Slide the primary slash on the third move, then list out I suppose Dual Chop, Iron Head, and maybe Outrage in the last slot, being sure to convey the last slot is filler.

Also, overall, the teammates your listing are fairly lacking. Try to give some more specific examples, like Scarf Garde, Scarf Mence, Talonflame, Rotom-W, and breifly explain why they're so helpful.

Once you get that out of the way, I'm willing to give this a QC check.
Yache-chomp is very good. I suggest slashing Yache Berry first on the standard-attacker set. Also I feel that Dual Chop shouldn't just be in other options. But you're right about Stone Edge. There is no reason to have that on a main set.
 
Gonna say Dual Chop isn't worth it over Dragon Claw because a. it can miss, b. most Dragon-types don't currently carry Haban Berry or Substitute, and c. it unnecessarily triggers Rough Skin and possibly Rocky Helmet on other Garchomp twice.
 

TheMantyke

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Sprocket this is a very high priority vgc analysis and it needs to be done quickly. If I don't hear word from you soon, I'll be reassigning this analysis.
 

TheMantyke

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Alright, I will be locking this analysis and writing it myself. Thank you for your effort Sprocket, but please make a more dedicated effort next time.
 
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