Quality Control Documentation

Pre-testing notes.

Jirachi:
  • General Note: All sets not running a speed-lowering Hidden Power should be running Max Spe instead of 80 HP, because beating Mence/Flygon 50% of the time is definitely better than 0%.
  • Lead: Restructure. May not be room for trick. Change EV spread to a Max Spe variant. Suggested: Iron Head / Stealth Rock / (U-turn or Trick) / (Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunderpunch)
  • Superachi: Maximize Speed. Test other coverage moves for the fourth slot. Possibly TBolt > HP Fire? Also test HP Ground for Heatran.
  • Physical Choice: Maximize Speed. De-slash Zen Headbutt (mention in comments), de-emphasize Trick. Suggested: Iron Head / Fire Punch / Ice Punch / (ThunderPunch / Trick / U-turn)
  • Support: Possibly more effective alternate spread? Mention Thunder in comments but remove slash.
  • Rain Support: Possibly to OO? I'd like others to weigh in on this.
Jolteon:

  • Charge Beam: Not sure if this deserves its own writeup. Plan to test with a team built to support it.
  • Support: Remove? Not sure how effective the set is with Jolteon's poor defenses.
  • Fake Tears: Possibly deserves its own set? Forces switches often, will pair with Spikes. Works well with Skarmory for Volt Absorb and forcing switches.
Kingdra:

  • Special Rain Dance: OK FINE STOP BITCHING YOU HOMOS
  • Choice Specs: Doesn't hit hard enough- 95 base Special Attack isn't special, and there are enough sturdy Dragon switchins that Kingdra will probably just end up Pursuited after a -2 from Draco Meteor.
Pokemon of choice (Starmie)

  • Set Order: Life Orb to top.
  • Non-Choice: Remove Expert Belt, rename to Life Orb.Add Rapid Spin and Grass Knot as options, remove Psychic.
  • Choice Scarf: Hydro Pump > Surf, remove Psychic.
  • Choice Specs: Hydro Pump > Surf. Replace Psychic with Trick / Grass Knot.
  • Reflect Support: Better EV spread? Possibly remove or replace with Dual Screen set.
 
Kingdra:

  • Special Rain Dance: Outclassed by mixed, remove?
  • Choice Specs: Doesn't hit hard enough- 95 base Special Attack isn't special, and there are enough sturdy Dragon switchins that Kingdra will probably just end up Pursuited after a -2 from Draco Meteor.
Click to expand...
I'd hold off on removing the Specs set. Yes, Kingdra does have sturdy switch-ins to its Dragon moves, but those same switch-ins really hate taking STAB Water moves, especially Hydro Pump. The only one taking them well is Empoleon, and that's because he resists it.

I think the main problem with Choice Specs Kingdra is the EV spread in the analysis. Kingdra is not meant to be a fast Specs user, he's meant to be a wall-breaker, and he should be played as such.

The EV spread 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe with a Modest nature does a very good job, and I've been using it for a few months now. This lets Kingdra outspeed all non-scarf variants of Tyranitar, while also giving him a lot more bulk (doesn't outspeed anything other significant things after that with Modest). The bulk helps him take advantage of his having only 1 weakness, as well as his two 4x resistances. 317 SpA is just 2 away from Timid Latias's 319, but as I mentioned before, Kingdra has the bonus of having STAB on his Water moves, so he can dish out a lot more punishment to the Steel switch-ins.

Like Specs Latias, most of the time, Kingdra isn't going to just start off spamming Draco Meteors, he's going to throw out a couple of Surfs/Hydro Pumps to scout for Steels and hopefully do quite a number on them. Skarmory that come in to try and take a Dragon move can be OHKOed by Hydro Pump, even if they're the fully Special Defensive ones, though they require Stealth Rock damage. Even a max HP Jirachi is taking up to 75% from Hydro Pump. ScarfTar that come in to try and take a Draco Meteor and Pursuit Kingdra out can actually be OHKOed by Surf after Stealth Rock, and it's guaranteed with Hydro Pump even without SR.

All in all, I think that the main problem with Specs Kingdra is the current EV spread in the analysis, so if you're having bad results testing it, try the EV spread I've been using, and it will probably yield much better results.

Oh, and sorry if I wasn't supposed to post here, I can send a PM instead if that's the case.
 
Before I list my pretesting notes, I would just like to inquire as to why Donphan is still using that same OU EV spread. The currently most used EV spread, as far as I know, is 252 HP / 252 Atk and for good reason. 252 HP allows you to survive literally the two most important attacks for Donphan to survive: bulky Froslass Ice Beam and Timid LO Fire Blast from Moltres. What does the 204 Defense do?

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Pretest notes:

Blastoise:

Choice Specs - Wtf. Everything does this better, even when considering it can be updated to carry Water Spout. It even talks about OU Pokemon in the description.
Choice Band - read above and amplify it by a power of 10.
Utility - nothing wrong with this but Foresight should probably be slashed in.

Torterra:

This shit is fucked up. I'm going to just do the write up including the sets:

Rock polish
Choice Band
SubSeed
Tank
Restalk (Shuffler)
Swords Dance (this is the only one I haven't tested yet and it's hard to make any pretest predictions because, well, it could suck or it could be great)
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Post Tests:

Azumarill:

Belly Drum - really? It reaches what, 327 Speed after a Salac Berry? It isn't going to sweep anything. I had trouble even setting up because I needed to sacrifice so much bulk for Speed.

Non Choice set - I've used a set with Substitute, Aqua Jet, Double Edge, and Ice Punch with Leftovers quite successfully, and there are clearly other advantages to running something like Life Orb + 4 attacks instead of Choice Band simply because of priority.

BlAzIkEn:

Choice Specs - this set is not remotely cool enough for Blaziken and belongs in OC. It's basically outclassed by the mixed Attacker.
Reversal - It's deadly and is hilarious when you pull it off but you don't (well you shouldn't) be able to pull it off. It is pretty hard to remove specific priority mons that the Team Options paragraph suggests (and I wrote it) because they all beat Dugtrio and Pursuit users (hi Azumarill).
Swords Dance - Franky!!!!!! Swords Dance needs to be added but Franky has been working on the set for a while...
Set Order - Move Physical Choice to the top. It probably the best set in the metagame, both with a Band or a Scarf. Physical Fire is brutal when people need to use their water slots to deal with the Special Fire onslaught coming from Pokemon such as Moltres. It is hilarious when I can just 2HKO people's Slowking and Milotic with CB Flare Blitz.




 
Oops...guess thats my bad on Donphan. I completely missed the first EV spread and focused more on the analysis haha.

I've always used 252 HP / 120 Att / 136 Def on Donphan simply because you still hit every ghost hard while maintaining some bulk. If everyone else feels 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def is better, the EV spread on site should be changed to that.

I'll focus on this rounds Pokemon soon. I'll pick Tangrowth as my choice this round.
 
I personally prefer 164 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe on Donphan. This allows you to outpace Clefable and Weezing. On stall teams, I find the importance of outpacing Clefable valuable otherwise Clefable will most likely wall you out if you don't have another solid physical attacker.
 
j. franky said:
I personally prefer 164 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe on Donphan. This allows you to outpace Clefable and Weezing. On stall teams, I find the importance of outpacing Clefable valuable otherwise Clefable will most likely wall you out if you don't have another solid physical attacker.
Click to expand...

Well we all have our preferences, so I'll just post calcs with all of the spreads:

All calcs are assuming Stealth Rock. Calculations are done on relevant Pokemon, including Ghosts, Moltres (if it has to), Raikou, and Rhyperior (it needs to check this).

Offensive calcs (252 Atk vs 120 Atk)
Assurance vs bulky Froslass: 67.1% - 79.3% vs 60.6% - 71.7%
120 Atk loses possible OHKO with Stealth Rock (this is also why I use Head Smash...lol)

Assurance vs bulky Mismagius: Doesn't matter vs 95.1% - 112.3%
Basically no benefit to having the extra attack here.

Earthquake vs bulky Spiritomb: 41.8% - 49.7% vs 37.8% - 44.7%
120 Atk loses 2HKO on Spiritomb

Earthquake vs CB Rhyperior: 51.4% - 61.1% vs 46.8% - 55.2%
No benefit.

Earthquake vs Standard Rhyperior: 49.9% - 59.3% vs 45.4% - 53.6%
Loses 2HKO (I think this seals the deal for me)


Defensive calcs (252 HP vs 252 HP/136 Def vs 164 HP)

Timid Moltres Fire Blast: 97.7% - 115.1% vs (same) vs doesn't matter. I must have rolled minimum or something.....because I've seen it happen.

Bulky Froslass Ice Beam: 67.2% - 79.7% vs (same) vs 71.3% - 84.5%
Donphan always survives with Spikes + Stealth Rock when using 252 HP.

LO Raikou HP Grass: 71.9% - 84.9% vs 76.2% - 90.1%
not too significant

SubCM Raikou: 55.7% - 65.6% vs 59.1% - 69.6%
not too significant

+1 SubCM Raikou: 82.3% - 97.4% vs 87.3% - 103.3%
Very significant, it actually avoids the OHKO comfortably

CB Rhyperior: 63.3% - 74.5%vs 56.5% - 66.7% vs 67.1% - 79%
fuck CB Rhyperior.

Standard Rhyperior: 42.2% - 50% vs 37.5% - 44.5% vs 44.8% - 53%
252 HP is never 2HKOed. 164 HP is always 2HKOed.


All in all, 252 HP/252 Atk retains the ability to check Standard Rhyperior and SubCM Raikou while the 164 HP variant fails at both. While the 252 HP/120 Atk variant does beat Raikou, it still loses to Rhyperior which is too important imo.

So yea, that's just why I think 252/252 is better for Donphan, personally.
 
When I used Donphan I always used franky's spread, though I think differences in the metagame now (I haven't really use it since pre-Raikou/Rhyperior (but Roserade there, fuck yeah letter R)) make the 252 HP set seem a lot more viable. Still maintains some offense while increasing the staying power a little more (since without some power behind its attacks, why not just use a more passive wall that does the same thing?). Though in most of those defensive cases it takes way too much to be comfortable anyway - I can't imagine letting Donphan fight Raikou or Moltres in any situation other than when I'm planning on saccing it anyway.

I think I'd take the 252/252 version, though mentioning the set with some speed would be a good idea since it'll be the better fit for teams that need to outrun those Pokemon mentioned(well, just Clefable, really).
 
Synre said:
When I used Donphan I always used franky's spread, though I think differences in the metagame now (I haven't really use it since pre-Raikou/Rhyperior (but Roserade there, fuck yeah letter R)) make the 252 HP set seem a lot more viable. Still maintains some offense while increasing the staying power a little more (since without some power behind its attacks, why not just use a more passive wall that does the same thing?). Though in most of those defensive cases it takes way too much to be comfortable anyway - I can't imagine letting Donphan fight Raikou or Moltres in any situation other than when I'm planning on saccing it anyway.

I think I'd take the 252/252 version, though mentioning the set with some speed would be a good idea since it'll be the better fit for teams that need to outrun those Pokemon mentioned(well, just Clefable, really).
Click to expand...

Yea, but the difference is that Donphan will actually get an attack off and OHKO Moltres and Raikou rather than just not at all even if its being sacrificed. Sometimes that's the only way for your team to beat said Pokemon later in the game.
 
At a glance, these are the things I plan on testing (and other changes I'm thinking about):

Breloom
-Test CB
-Rename "Non-Choice Attacker" to something else. Maybe just "Facade" or something.

Bronzong
-Standard wall should have Payback and HP Ice (as well as some others)
-Rearrange sets
-Change Hypnosis / Reflect / Light Screen to Light Screen / Reflect / Hypnosis on Trick Room set
-Maybe test RestTalk set?

Celebi (AKA the mon that made me want to start QC in the first place)
-Merge Baton Pass sets
-Trick as main option on both Choice sets
-Offensive CM probably needs max speed. Will test.
-LO Sweeper can be taken down and probably just have LO slashed onto Offensive CM. In fact, this can be renamed to just Offensive.
-Perish Song does not need its own set. Just another option for Defensive / Cleric. I might even consider merging all of these, because it's the exact same defensive Celebi but with a shitton of different support options. Will discuss this in #C&C
-Testing Leech Seed + Calm Mind
-Testing SubSeed (probably if anything should just be joined w/ the one above)
-Testing Trick Orb (even if this set proves to be okay, this needs another writeup. It's currently lazy at best)

Salamence
-Classic MixMence needs 252 Spe
-Choice Scarf should at least have Naive slashed, if not the main option
-Will test Fat Mence

Looks like I got my work cut out for me this round...
 
Phil: In Offensive DDMence, list Leftovers and Dragon Claw. Lefties DDMence takes a huge steaming dump all over Offense in general, and has been a fantastic set whenever I've tried it.

EDIT: This means put slashes on them. One does more damage to offensive teams and busts stuff open, but the other is a flat out amazing cleanup sweeper. They're both played the same way, just that they come out at different times and have different purposes.
 
Alright, I have thoroughly tested everything, here are my proposed changes:

(generally, Red = bad/remove, Green = good/keep/add, blue = change/modify).

Blastoise:

Literally remove EVERY set expect for the Utility set and, surprisingly, the Choice Specs set:

Utility: Blastoise is one of the best Spinners in the tier simply because of its awesome typing and Yawn. Yawn makes it able to force the spinners to switch, and with simple Stealth Rock support, something like Froslass will not survive long doing that, albeit it has Pain Split, but it won't be setting up Spikes either.

Zzz: This set is just a) set up bait, and b) outclassed by Milotic times 100. Rapid Spin is not even remotely a viable option since you aren't going to even threaten any Ghost at all. Roar is alright, but that's all it does, and it's really not anywhere near the quality that the utility set is.

Choice Specs: This set was surprisingly decent. I mean, unlike the Choice Band set, I surprised and OHKOed so many Ghost-types that I actually enjoyed testing the set simply for the "lol" factor of using Specs Blastoise. With a Timid nature, Blastoise outpaces Pokemon like Modest Moltres and Jolly Absol at a nice number of 280. With Modest, it's still faster than some Pokemon, but I like outpacing Venusaur and 2HKOing it with Ice Beam. Water Spout is a necessity on this set, it 2HKOes offensive Venusaur, and if comes in early in the game it is definitely quite difficult to take out. It works kind of like Typhlosion but with better defensive typing, not weak to Stealth Rock, better defenses, and more surprise factor. I propose making the set resemble this:

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Spout / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Surf / Rapid Spin
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Either way, Rapid Spin and Water Spout make it different than Specs Milotic, so as long as that is emphasized I say the set should stay.

Choice Band: Do I need to explain how this is bad/outclassed by Azumarill. I literally had trouble taking out a Pokemon in any match even when I took them by surprise, unlike the Specs set. Like, it does approximately uhhh 70% to min/min Rotom? Yea good luck surviving that Thunderbolt with no SpD EVs, and now the surprise is over.

Choice Scarf: This set was very frustrating to test because I did have high expectations after using the specs set. However, I tested basically EVERY type of Scarf set (including the one mentioned in the current revamp) with every nature, and it still was very very lackluster. The main point was: I rarely got to use full power water spout, and when I did get to use it, the Specs set would have simply done it better. With a Modest nature, Blastoise is too damn slow to be an effective Water-type Choice Scarfer. It's slower than RP Perior, Aggron, and Torterra. It's slower than goddamn unboosted Swellow! With Timid, not only is Blastoise too weak (i.e. it doesn't even 2HKO most offensive Venusaur), but it also is still too slow. It misses out on the crucial 3 Speed points to outpace Adamant Rock Polish Torterra, among other things. Without Water Spout - actually, even with Water Spout - this set is 100% outclassed by Milotic if you have to Scarf a Water-type. I have some logs if necessary.


Torterra:

Since I did this revamp myself like a day ago, I tested every set on there and here is what I found:

Rock Polish: I'm sure everyone (especially SDS - who used to abuse this in UU himself) can attest to how good this thing is. It destroys most offensive teams because of its bulk and impeccable type-coverage.

Tank: I mean, of course when you pair incredible defensive typing, great defense, a great support movepool, and a recovery move, you're going to get a great defensive Pokemon. It makes a great Rhyperior check, as well as a surprisingly good Pokemon to take out bad Raikou's (who don't have +1 HP Ice).

SubSeed: I think I was most impressed with this set, because it simply demolished most of Torterra's would-be counters and then could actually sweep itself because of its naturally good attack and STAB Earthquake. It was great because for some reason people loved running Weezing to deal with Torterra, and consequently got demolished when they tried to WoW Torterra's Substitute.
Dual Screen: I was very skeptical of this set because I didn't get what it had on Uxie, but after a bit of testing I realized how important the resistances and STAB attack that Torterra has are. Without it, you get set up on by Pokemon like SubCM Raikou (we all know what happens when you let it set up). Torterra has an easy time switching into CB Rhyperior and Aggron when they spam Stone Edge / Head Smash and set up, while Uxie takes a shitload of damage. Not to mention, Torterra has much better defensive synergy with Pokemon like Houndoom and especially DD Gatr since it lures Ice-type attacks.
Rest + Sleep Talk Shuffler: Self explanatory. It is bulky enough to take hits and status while threatening with a strong STAB and Roar. I used LR's old stall team which used this Torterra, and even though I hate stall, it was clearly a strong Pokemon on the team.

Choice Band: Being able to switch in on every wall and a good chunk of offensive Pokemon a good Choice Band user. It doesn't exactly cause pure destruction like CB Rhyperior, but it is faster, has better typing, and easily deals with Pokemon like Milotic.

Subtitute + 3 Attacks: This is a fairly new set that I was eager to test out because I had heard great things, and they were all true! Torterra causes a large amount of switches, and is definitely effective at abusing its Substitute to take out basically any Pokemon on offense.

Swords Dance: It neither hits hard enough, nor is bulky or fast enough (or contrarily, slow enough for Trick Room). I had trouble setting up, and when I did, I was usually forced out. Torterra is better boosting its Speed, setting up a Sub, or straight up attacking than setting up a Swords Dance.

Lead: One word: Froslass. Until Froslass is officially gone, there is not a chance this will work. I literally lost every lead matchup when I tested the set.

Azumaril:

Choice Band: Quite obviously one of the most deadly sets of any Pokemon in the metagame.
Non-Choice: I really like this set (I can't remember who suggested to me) because it allows you to abuse everything that Azumarill excels at: it's bulk, 101 Subs, priority, and monstrous attack stat. I think this set should look like this:

[SET]
name: Non Choice
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Aqua Jet
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Substitute / Waterfall
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

I know, no STAB as a main option, but consider this: Double-Edge and Waterfall have the same base power. Sure, Waterfall has the flinch and the lack of recoil, but the coverage that Normal brings to the table is absolutely worth sacrificing.

SubPuncher: I think Toxic and Ice Punch should be slashed in with Aqua Jet and Waterfall respectively. Toxic helps with Slowbro and Milotic, while Ice Punch helps with Venusaur.

Rest + Sleep Talk: Yea, it's good. It has the advantage of being able to status absorb that the other sets can't. It also has more longevity than the other sets.

Belly Drum: I set this up like, twice in my testing (I tested for approximately 10-20 matches depending on how skeptical of the sets I was....). One of those times, I was just outspeed and KOed by Raikou. It's too slow. You lose all of its bulk. There is really nothing good about this set.

Blaziken:

Mixed Priority Attacker: It's not as good as it used to be in this metagame (I tested both spreads, don't even), I felt it was kind of outshone by the physical Choice set this round at least. But it's still a great set, revenge killing with Vacuum Wave is always useful, and it's fun to catch an offensive team with Stealth Rock up, because they have no switch-ins.

Physical Choice (move this set to the top): I was thoroughly impressed by both Scarf and Banded variants of Blaziken because of how awesome physical fire-type attacks are in this metagame. Because Slowking and SpD Milotic have shown up everywhere, I literally 2HKO every Water-type that comes in with the Choice Band set. The Scarf set destroys offense one Pokemon at a time for the same reason actually.

Special Choice: Other options. It is purely outclassed by the mixed attacker. Moltres and Magmortar do this better. Focus Blast is cool, but it's too unreliable (use Superpower on the LO set instead ?????)

Mixed Agility: It's good, hard to set up, but it's still pretty good with minimal Stealth Rock support. Again, the special waters are a little frustrating, but at least this set has a higher Attack stat to nail them with Superpower (I know right). Because of the ease Spikes brings, and how people's lone Fire-type switch-ins are usually weak to Superpower or Stealth Rock, this thing can still sweep quite often.

Mixed Choice Scarf: Not as destructive as the physical choice for this metagame, but it is a very reliable revenge killer. It's hard to find something that actually sweeps that isn't easily stopped by this set because of it's impressive coverage.

Reversal:
1) Sandstorm is fairly common.
2) priority is impossible to remove, and is literally everywhere.
3) priority is impossible to remove, and is literally everywhere.

Swords Dance: This is a fairly new set, and it's pretty good at blowing holes in the opponents team for something like Swellow or even Raikou. Franky is currently doing this write up so.....yea lets get it on site.

EDIT: Mentioning the "Choice Scarf" set that's in the Blastoise revamp.
 
Pre-testing notes.

Infernape - Nasty plot mixape and specially based mixape should just be combined into one analysis, there is no need for two seperate ones when the EVs, movesets, and objective are practically the same. Just slash in Nasty plot over a filler move such as HP ice and include it in the analysis. I feel that everything else in the analysis about infernape is current with the metagame and should stay. Having experience with pretty much all its sets prior to this assignment, I don't think it will be necessary to test nape at all, but we shall see.

Hippo - EVs on CB hippodown need to be changed, the current EVs don't guarantee a 100 percent chance to OHKO meta lead which is a must (a minimum of 196 is actually needed), maybe include Life Orb as an option over choice band. Also might want to change the nature of curse hippo to +special defense ( but I need to test that )

Smeargle(poc) - has a shit ton of BP analysis that look the same or function similar.

Heracross - Has two bulk up sets, one of them obviously needs to go. Also the sleep talk set doesnt seem to be needed, as sleep talk is already included in bulk up set and choice sets as well. Forgot to mention reversal set looks awful - any type of priority or weather ruins this set, which are very common in OU
 
Round 2: Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Dialga, Pokemon of Choice
Click to expand...
Theorymon, me, and ibojangles plan to do all our Uber QC together. We've done this for Quagsire and to a slightly lesser extent, Cresselia.

Pre-edit brief notes:
Deoxys-D: Needs format revamp, inconsistency between the EV section and the main sets. The analysis in general looks pretty small and somewhat uninviting. On the team options, ghosts should have more emphasis as Deoxys-D relies heavily on entry hazards (the first set is an entry hazard setter itself, the second abuses it). Forretress' role in the team options is just for spinning...which...isn't...quite...correct...

Deoxys-S: horrendously outdated - no team options, and the opinion section fails to fully reflect its solid position as an Uber lead; Theorymon is revamping this Pokemon. Hopefully he gets it done on time....

Dialga: Needs format revamp
Mixed Attacker - According to Theorymon, Hasty should be the prioritized nature (along with Life Orb). Take out Adamant Orb (lol).
Bulk Up - Lucario and Heatran are also counters to the set

Pokemon of Choice: TBD =)
 
pretest notes

Diverse Blissey / Wish Blissey - via request of supermarth64, I'll test out the viability of the EVS. an overview and additional comments and options are needed. Also, if anybody would like to shorten those Uber sets that would be great, it's making my eyes bleed tbh and kinda annoys me that it blocks out all the important OU information with huge heaps of text.

Counter Bliss - not in the analysis as of yet, however Fuzznip apparently loves this set so I'll give it a whirl and see if it's good enough to be written up.

Stall Aero - should test this set out, see if it has anything over the superior sub roost stall mon, Zapdos. Looks pretty gimmicky but will test nonetheless!

CB Aero - not exactly the strongest CB user you would like to have, it has the SR and Bullet Punch weaknesses, and can be exploited quite easily.

Metagross - reorder the sets so Lead is first. Needs the additional comments and set options section, and an overview as well.

Restalk Metagross - ...well, I'm really not too sure about this set. Looks extremely gimmicky and i don't see the point in running restalk given pokemon like Salamence screw it over anyways lol.

Dual Screen Metagross - Not really sure about this one, tbh for a dual screen team i'd much rather use Azelf or Uxie here, even Jirachi as it's faster than Metagross. Maybe OO, we'll see.

Tank Metagross - Never seen this set in play before, and despite what the analysis says I'd much rather use Skarmory for the spikes and phazing aspect, rather than this.

Offensive Choice Scarf Metagross - Looks pretty gimmicky, also looks fairly weaker than I would want it to be. Surprise factor will only get this set so far -- it's giving the opponent free turns, and there are more potent revenge killers to other pokemon rather than this.

*This also really needs a trapper gross set - it is very efficient in trapping Latias and Gengar, and doesn't fall to HP Fire from both unlike Scizor. Also, it isn't banded so it moves around more freely. Additionally, it can explode at any time in the game after it traps, so it can easily get a 2 for 1.
 
Hi, I would like it if a QC member could test and approve / disapprove MS Dos (Metal Sound Zapdos) for me, as I am currently working on a Zapdos Update found here and am having trouble deciding on whether or not I should include MS Dos as a set or just talk about it in Optional Changes. Thank you guys! :)
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Gengar:
  • Standard Set: Should be replaced with one of the below sets, probably Special Substitute. Using a Gengar without Substitute or Protect is somewhere around suicide, and LO + 4 attacks isn't especially viable in the current metagame, especially with the explosion of Scarftar.
Click to expand...

I agree that scarftar is an issue, and with that thought I think you should make the main set sub, not protect. It's just as suicidal to me.
 
Pre-test Post:

Altaria:
-CB set looks pretty questionable.
-Specs/Mixed look questionable as well, although I've had some success with it in the [extreme] past. Will test.
-Sing sucks.
-Might try a Rain Dance set.

Hitmontop (name PIKACHU):
-Not sure why there aren't any sets with more defensive EVs/nature.
-Will test Choice Band.
-Blacklisting whistle for giving me a mon with a shitty name.

Arcanine:
-Morning Glory looks fine for the most part, although perhaps comments should emphasize its ability to counter Grass-types, for one.
-Choice Specs set looks questionable, as well as Howl.
-Any bulky Arcanine set should have Morning Sun.

Steelix:
-Already used the Physical set extensively, and it looks fine to me.
-Will test Curse and Choice Band most likely.
-Baitlix looks fine, but will test it also.
 
NOTE TO QC TEAM!!!
​

It is worth looking in your respective subforum (OU, UU, Ubers, etc.) to check and see if anybody is currently working on an analysis for a Pokemon you were assigned. If someone is, you should post in their topic to let them know what's going on from your end of QC. This ensures that the same changes don't need to be made more than once.
​
 
Alright, here's my testing notes:

1. Milotic is already pretty well-organized.

On the bulky water set, I recommend slashing Haze first in the fourth moveslot over Ice Beam / Toxic. Haze is one of the reasons Milotic is the premier bulky water in UU, and not mentioning it first seems out of place.

On the Rest + Sleep Talk set, Toxic should be slashed in with Ice Beam and HP Grass. I've seen this set work effectively on a few stall teams, often catching incoming CM Slowbro and Chansey.

The offensive set seems outclassed to me by the subsequent Life Orb tank. I mean, if you really wanted a strong offensive force in UU, Milotic wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind. I'd scrap that set completely, an perhaps mention it in other options (though even that's a stretch for me). Hypnosis's accuracy drop doesn't really help the set much either.

2. Hariyama

I think the special tank overlaps with the physical tank, and IMO is inferior. What do you expect to be the most common switches into Hariyama? They are most likely gonna be special attackers, like Moltres and Alakazam. I mean the extra special defense does help it take some attacks better, like LO Moltres Air Slash, but overall its more of a waste. LO Alakazam Psychic still has a chance to KO regardless of what the EV spread on Hariyama is, and with Thick Fat, Hariyama can already take some special hits. If others want to weigh in, feel free, but I think the special tank set can be removed.

On the Physical tank set, I'd slot Payback first over Knock Off. Ghosts are everywhere in UU, and I think hitting them harder is better than simply removing an item.

The Choice Band set looks good. Fire Punch is unnecessary though, as it says in the analysis it hits Toxicroak...well, so does Ice Punch lol.

Since the EV's for the sleep-talker and physical tank are the same, why not combine the two somehow? It would make the analysis a lot more clear, and compact at the same time.

The Bulk-Up set is too slow IMO to be effective. In UU, there's a lot of things that hit hard very fast without boosts, and I feel that Hariyama just wouldn't have enough time to set up, and would rather just straight-up attack anyway. IMO remove as well.

On the SubPunch set, I'd just remove Earthquake from the last moveslot as an option. Ice Punch / Stone Edge hits mostly everything that EQ would hit, and Toxicroak is already 2HKOed by Focus Punch.

Lead set looks good and is highly effective.

Phew that was long.

3. Hitmonlee

Is there really a need for separate analyses for the Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Life Orb versions? I mean they run basically the same exact EV spread and moves. The Choice sets should be running max speed, I don't know why that's wrong in the current on-site analysis. I'd combine both analyses into a singular one, and mention all three items as viable. I'd also note that Mach Punch is only viable on the LO and CB sets. Basically use the Choice moveset as the moveset for all Hitmonlee variants.

SubReversal is way too hard to pull off in the UU metagame, especially because of the number of priority attacks. Hitmonlee is extremely frail as is, meaning it is unlikely it will keep the sub up, making it susceptible to everything from Aqua Jet to Sucker Punch. Remove IMO.

4. Tangrowth

First off, Tangrowth's analysis is more geared toward OU, so that needs to be fixed ASAP.

I'll start by noting the sets that should be removed: Choice Specs and the Knock it off, Mojambo Rules Here set. The first one is a novelty set and the second one can be improved upon by another on-site set.

The main set for Tangrowth I believe should be:

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Impish / Bold Nature (depending on choice of moves)
252HP / 192 Def / 64 Sp.Def
- Leaf Storm / Power Whip
- HP Ice
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / Leech Seed

The reason I use Leaf Storm is because it hits walls like Slowbro harder. Power Whip is equally as usable due to Tangrowth's relatively high base attacking stats. HP Ice is a necessity in taking out SD Venusaur. Synthesis is obvious, and as a filler, a status move or Leech Seed often works best. I use 64 Sp.Def EV's to take random Thunderbolts from say Crokou, though other people can weigh in on a better EV spread if they have one. This set should replace the "Double Powder" set on-site and probably should be renamed as well.

The sunny day sets are fine as is, though their descriptions could be adjusted to reflect the UU tier.
 
Skarmory
Moveset EVs
~ Brave Bird
~ Roost
~ Spikes
~ Whirlwind
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

this is the current specially defensive set on analysis. i think Taunt should be slashed in with a faster ev spread mentioned (or u guys could write up a seperate set). also since this is the most common variant of skarmory these days, it should probably be moved up higher imo
 
Post Test

Blissey - An overview of Blissey is needed, additional changes and whatnot are also needed as well. Blissey wants 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Bold on all its OU sets. The SpA EVs on Diverse Blissey did not help much at all, and any EVing of Blissey to beat Sub Beam Rotom is pointless, considering Rotom-a and Blissey squaring off in a "who can beat who first in an eving contest" is pretty dumb, it's best to just screw the SpA EVs and invest in bulk instead. For the EVs section of Blissey, I dont even think that the SpD mention is necessary in the EVs section, as Specs Gar, Tran, and Lucario are quite uncommon. Mentions of the ADV era aren't really needed IMO, the Platinum metagame has evolved quite a bit from 3rd gen. The 4 Speed EVs on Blissey are given to outspeed Restalk Machamp, it's leftover EVs that make at least some difference. Blissey as a whole is pretty customizable so I dont have much to say on the sets, though I have tried counter and it is somewhat decent, though I'm not sure if I would want another set devoted solely for it. Other Options is a fine enough spot for it, Blissey is pretty concrete at what it does. Support, recover, etc.

Stall Aero - This is actually quite a nice set. During my testing I used a spread of 200 HP / 112 Atk / 148 Spe / 48 Sdef, which worked better for me. Stall Dactyl makes a nice switch in to Mixmence bar Draco Meteor, which can be stalled out via Substitute and then can be roosted back to full health which is amazing. Aerodactyl has been able to stall out close combats and stone edges from Infernape, Gyro Balls from bronzong, Leaf Storms from Celebi, Dynamic Punches and Stone Edge from Machamps, and it's fast enough to revenge kill anything below base 120, so stuff like scarftar or ddtar can be revenge killed by it. The attack I invested in the set allows this Aero to OHKO salamence with Rock Slide after Sandstorm and SR, both of which are needed on a team with Stall Aerodactyl. Unlike it's other pressure stall counterpart Zapdos, this can actually fight back against mence. Perhaps in the other options section, a mention of Toxic Stall Aerodactyl could work. Aerodactyl usually has stuff like vaporeon come into it where it tries to surf aero out, but it can potentially be pounded by a nasty toxic.

CB Aero - It's pretty weak, and it's harder for it to get in than it should be for what it does for the team. I prefer Scarftar for the fast heavy hitting rock stabs, CB Tyranitar, though not as fast hits like a truck and I found it to be more useful on the teams that I was using where I ran CB Aero instead. Take this set out, it's really not too good for OU.

Metagross - A reordering of the analysis is needed in the order of Lead, Agiligross, Trapper Gross (needs to be uploaded), CB Gross, Mixed Attacker. Trick Metagross can be combined with Lead metagross, or at least a mention of Trick should be on Lead Metagross. Choice Band should probably get a mention of Pursuit and Trick as well, as they are viable options on CB Gross.

Lead Gross - Combine it with Trick, or at least slash it over a slot, probably Mash / EQ. Slash Lum over Occa. Take off the 12 evs in def and 4 in HP and put them in speed so Metagross reaches 24 Spe, effectively outspeeding standard lead emp. Also, shuca berry can be an option as well as occa and lum, should it be used as a non-lead which is perfectly viable, aka tank metagross

Agiligross - Slash Zen Headbutt over ThunderPunch, it is viable in the sense that it hits Rotom-a and Swampert pretty hard, and nearly kills Gyarados with SR up. Change the Agiligross spread for 252 Atk 56 def 200 Spe, which outspeeds Scarf Rotom-a and neutral base 100 pokemon. outspeeding Scarf Rotom-a allows Metagross to kill off Rotom-a with SR + Meteor Mash on the switch in, and a Zen Headbutt to finish it off. I'd personally take off Explosion and Ice Punch and simply mention it in the description while slashing ZH with Tpunch, as I find ZH much more common than the other two options, and preventing slashitis is pretty good.

Restalk Metagross - It was harder to bring Metagross in as it was for Skarmory, and Skarmory gets spikes up. Metagross hit like a wimp and had terrible coverage with only two moves, and I found myself easily exploited by other pokemon for little cost. Those heaps of calcs in the description looked pretty bad and not worth it in the description, and it didn't surprise me that this set was pretty erm... shitty. Remove the set.

Dual Screen Metagross - When I used this on a HO team, using it as a lead was not as good as using Azelf as a lead, and using it as a backup dual screener was also pretty meh, as the lack of taunt or threat to Rotoms was really bad. I would have no way to deal with defensive WoW Rotom, and I'd be forced to stay in or else my pokemon would have to risk a burn. Simply because of that, it was a pain in the ass to use Metagross, it's easier to use something like Uxie, Cresselia, or Jirachi which can at least help out the pokemon that comes out after it, whereas Metagross does not. This is Other Options material, there are just pokemon that do this job much better, the Explosion may look good but i didn't really find it worth it when you are pressured into switching out into a burn, and packing something like Heatran or losing a lum berry simply for that isn't worth it.

Tank Metagross - This functions really similar to the lead set especially if you use Stealth Rock on it. Otherwise, it's pretty lackluster. Remove this set, as it's too similar to the lead set and Skarmory can lay out spikes and act as a defensive steel better than Metagross, who just sits there and lays out a screen and bashes things without any attack investment, so it hits like a wimp.

Offensive Choice Scarf Metagross - Surprisingly it wasn't too bad, however I found myself to be wanting to use CB more than this set. I believe this set is pretty damn old, it was probably made in the DP era so :P. Remove this set, as there isn't exactly too much apart from a surprise kill that makes this thing effective. CB Metagross hits harder and has access to bullet punch if it wants to go first.

In brief:

  • change wish bliss and diverse bliss to bold 252 hp 252 def 4 spe, give an overview + additional comments + Optional changes
  • remove cb aero, change stall dactyl to 200 hp / 112 atk / 148 spe / 48 sdef, put toxic in other options or slash it somewhere in the description for stall aero
  • provide an overview and additional comments + Optional Changes for metagross, remove restalk, tank, offensive choice scarf, dual screen metagross sets, combine trick and lead, order Metagross for Lead, Agiligross, Trapper Gross, CB Gross, Mixed Gross, put Dual screens in other options. Take out Ice Punch and Explosion on Agiligross, replace it with ZH slashed with Tpunch. Change the spread to 252 Atk 56 Def 200 Spe. For Lead Gross, slash Lum with Occa and change the spread to 248 HP 252 Atk 24 Spe.
  • Azelf looks fine and is fine imo, so don't think I forgot to test that too =)
 
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