Lower Tiers RBY PU Hub

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New year new takes!
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:arcanine: - Best Lead in the tier and also amazing in the back. Nothing checks it well aside from Seaking who is an awful lead and has checks in its own right.
:nidoqueen: - Unwallable coverage, is favored vs most of the tier and walls Magneton, its only weakness is Water-types who it can still chip heavily to clear the way for ones own Seaking to sweep later.
:fearow: - Can bullshit its way through even the most dire of situations, one of the best revenge killers in the tier.
:seaking: - Is the only Pokemon to consistently 1v1 Arcanine and has great matchups into Nidoqueen, Rapidash, Fearow, and Scyther (latter two if it has Blizzard). Its kept in check by Staryu, Gastly, and opposing Seaking, although all of these are tentative checks at best and +2 Seaking beats all of these.
:gastly: - Outspeeds Nidoqueen and Seaking and beats Seaking in a 1v1, it can also prevent it from setting up an Agility with its piss weak Explosion. It also has Hypnosis to click if it really needs to and it has no good switchins after landing sleep, although Hypnosis should really be a last resort click as its awful bulk and plethora of weaknesses mean missing can spell its doom.
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:staryu: - Best Seaking check in the tier by a long shot, revenges chipped Nidoqueen and 2HKOes Rapidash and Arcanine, although its paper thin defences can exasperate a teams Fearow issues and its middling speed means any chip can put it into revenge kill range. It also suffers from wanting to be used in the early- and mid-games to do things such as spread paralysis and revenge Nidoqueen but if it isn't comoletely healthy by the end of the game it can't properly check Seaking.
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:rapidash: - Has an amazing speed tier, making it one of if not the best revenge killer in the tier, and a great fuck-off Fire Blast, it can even switch into a Fearow Drill Peck if desperate and still beat it, it also absoloutly crushes any chance of Scyther sweeping lategame. Its issues are the bad Arcanine matchup and having to rely on Fire Blast to do much.
:porygon: - Agility Porygon is a great lategame sweeper, although it requires some level of support beforehand to eliminate/incapacitate Arcanine and Staryu. TWave Porygon is alright I guess but it lacks the oomph of Agility Porygon and any stray crits can end it.
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:magneton: Its like a better Scyther in my opinion, trading the speed and not awful Nidoqueen matchup for better Gaatly, Seaking, Porygon, and Fearow matchups. Its matchup into Rapidash and Arcanine are also much better but still not great. It requires decent support to KO Nidoqueen beforehand, but thats not that big a task considering Nidoqueen typically trades with something and dies before the endgame.
:scyther: - Its alright I guess. It can sweep lategame with Swords Dance but the odds are stacked against it most of the time and it requires extensive support to be able to sweep effectively, and even if all the checkboxes are ticked, it can just miss Hyper Beam or crit when it doesn't want to and it will just die. Its a decent revenge killer since its fast and has a decently strong Slash, but if it revenge kills something it gives up any hope of sweeping later.
:Graveler: - Best Fearow and Scyther wall in the tier, has almost no even decent switchins, it also has a decent Arcanine matchup, though it dies to a crit or burn. Its only issue is its absolute Seaking food
:vileplume: - Walls SurfBolt Staryu and Blizzardless Seaking, allowing ones own Seaking to sweep later. It also is one of the few Pokemon to resist Magnetons Thunderbolt.
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:drowzee: - Slow and frail, it hits hard and has a good Staryu matchup but this fast paced offensive meta really doesn't suit it. Unlike Gastly its usually going to take a hit before it even gets the chance to land Hypnosis making it even worse at landing it, although it is very hard to switch into after sleep.
:dragonair: - AgiliWrap endgame sweeper with great coverage options, although its fucked over by Gastly and is unreliable in nature.
:pinsir: - Best Nidoqueen switchin in the tier, more Nidoqueen dropping Fire Blast than ever is extremely good for it, letting it actually beat it after switching in. Its still got to deal with the awful Fire-type and Fearow matchups though.
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:Omanyte: - Interesting lategame finisher and has more potential than people give it credit for, as long as its not brought out extremely early and used as Gastly switchin fodder it can be good.
:magmar: This Pokemon does literally nothing exept use cheese moves, you trade the great Fearow matchup the other Fire-types have for stupid rng fishing. This Pokemon is worse Arcanine and Rapidash in every single way aside from Confuse Ray, how it ended up in PU baffles me.
:machamp: - Just use the better Nidoqueen switchin, its interesting as a lead but it lets Fearow in for free and hates burns.
:abra: - Abra has a great Gastly matchup, being one of the only semi-competent switchins in the tier to it after it lands sleep. However its horrendous physical bulk and lack of power make it a failure of a glass cannon, its even OHKOed by Gastlys piss weak Explosion.
:sandslash: - Decent Swords Dance sweeper, also walls Magneton, although its Seaking food and unlike Graveler can't really check Fearow or Fire-types.
 
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Due to the recent news that NU is going to have its next VR update in 2025, and an general dislike of the current state of the tier right now, we've decided to look into potential tiering action. However, we want to know the community's current thoughts on the metagame before starting any suspect tests or anything like that. So we made a short tiering Survey to gather everyone's thoughts on the metagame! It should only take about a minute to complete, so fill it out if you can!

Survey Link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeXpYIuyBjUVJWlC9RGJ_3IO43ry2PzLEXCM-qd4RH47Z9pKw/viewform

This survey will be open for two weeks, so until Sunday, March 17, 11:59PM GMT-5. Any kind of tiering action will only happen after the end of PUBD, the ongoing PU team tour.

Also feel free to discuss here!
 
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:rb/fearow: Survey Results :rb/arcanine:
Let's start with the first two questions:
Forms response chart. Question title: On a Scale of 1-5 How much do you like the current metagame?. Number of responses: 14 responses.
Forms response chart. Question title: On a Scale of 1-5 how skill-based do you think the current metagame is?. Number of responses: 14 responses.
On average, the metagame is fairly well-liked, with an average of 3.57
However, the metagame is generally considered to be less skill-based, with an average of 3.00

Now moving onto individual Pokemon, the two biggest standouts in the survey were by far Arcanine and Fearow
Forms response chart. Question title: Arcanine. Number of responses: 14 responses.
Forms response chart. Question title: Fearow. Number of responses: 14 responses.
Both of these Pokemon were considered to be broken by most of the submitters:
Arcanine has an average of 3.86
Fearow has an average of 3.57.

No Pokemon stood out as much as Arcanine and Fearow; the two next-highest responses were Gastly and Seaking:
Forms response chart. Question title: Gastly. Number of responses: 14 responses.
Forms response chart. Question title: Seaking. Number of responses: 14 responses.
Gastly's average was 2.50
Seaking's average was 2.00

No other Pokemon had an average above 2. Also no other pokemon were brought up in the "anything else" category.
Porygon: 1.57
Nidoqueen: 1.50
Rapidash: 1.43
Scyther: 1.36
Dragonair: 1.36
Staryu: 1.29
Magmar: 1.21

Conclusion:
These results generally show that a large portion of the RBY PU community doesn't believe that this tier properly rewards player skill. The two biggest culprits for this are Fearow and Arcanine. As a result, we will be suspecting these two Pokemon very soon. Every other Pokemon wasn't deemed broken enough by the community in order to warrant immediate tiering action.
 
Once the current vote concludes, I would like to collect sample teams. If Fearow is banned then of course there will be some speculation, but I want to make sure the sample teams at least have legal Pokemon on them, or, if Fearow stays legal, I want to make sure they're up to date. Please DM me here or on Discord (same @) if you have samples to share, ideally ASAP once the vote concludes.
 
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PUBD just ended and my thoughts on the metagame have shifted a bit. No time to explain because Fearow might get banned today so I need to post this right now
Fearow: Probably the most centralizing mon in the tier, every team needs one mon there specifically to not lose to Fearow, you need a queen or magnets or gravel to not lose and even then, Fearow can choose to win with a crit. Arc on paper beats Fearow but the opponent can bring back arc and suddenly that isn't a real game plan. Theoretically droppable since it does not switch into much really, but in a world where Gastly has a higher usage rate than Nidoqueen, it's undroppable unless you face someone with a super anti-Fearow scout, in which case you can probably probably take advantage of that with Seaking and/or Nidoqueen.

Arcanine: I'd say back Arcanine is at the strongest it has ever been. Gastly usage has shot up while Seaking and even Nidoqueen usage has seen a bit of a dip. This has led to a drought environment where Graveler and Rapidash are a lot better, and there is still some Magneton and Scyther usage right now. All of this is great for back Arcanine. It beats a lot of mons and trades versus almost anything. Pretty much any team that does not have Seaking, Nidoqueen in addition to a secondary Fearow check, or their own back Arcanine is weak to back Arc, which is probably the biggest reason to run a non-Arc lead right now, so you can play Arc mirror in the mid-game.

Gastly: The 3rd most influential mon in the metagame at the moment, Seaking usage has dipped almost exclusively because this mon exists. Being able to switch into a Surf, threaten sleep, and probably go two for one kills the viability of so many mons. Substitute Gastly makes counterplay even harder, before you could hope for early wakes as Gastly does 24% to your Arc but Substitute means you need to take action immediately once you get slept. Only solid answers are fires since Gastly can boom on the Psychic NFEs. On top of that, having Hypnosis allows you to do truly evil plays that should be illegal, like sleeping Fearow. If Fearow wasn't in here Gastly would make the metagame miserable, not because its too good but because it and has ludicrous variance. It doesn't have to watch its HP as much (70% is dpeck range) and can afford to always fish for Psychic drops once it gets sleep, something that it can't always do right now in fear of a risky Fearow switch. Fires can beat it but they have to hit Fire Blasts and avoid psydrops which would probably be frustrating.

Staryu: Doing the same stuff it has always been doing with the same usage. I think Psystar is the strongest it has been in while, obviously stuff like Vileplume isn't making a comeback but Gastly becoming extremely common is quite nice for Psystar, as well as Seaking dropping in usage which was the main reason to run tbolt. Other stuff like Porygon rising is nice for it since you can potentially force out Porygon once you trade paralysis because Porygon can just kind of sit on SurfBolt. Still about as good as its always been, Seaking and Nidoqueen are still common enough, Gastly and Star are on almost every team, Porygon and Graveler are semi-common, and Vileplume and Drowzee falling off means that Staryu is never out of job.

Nidoqueen: The slow teams it used to farm have long since passed but it will always do something in the back, and if it doesn't, that means your opponent is not using Fearow or Arcanine (or queen got crit). It is one of the few mons that can go toe to toe with back Arcanine or Fearow and if you can't fit it you might as well slot it in the lead slot and run back Arcanine, which I feel is very good right now. Very much a glue mon these days, makes teambuilding much easier since it is like the only mon that is good that forces a Fearow or Arc trade. Substitute becoming the "best 4th" is great for it because everyone is forced to play around Substitute even if you don't run it, so you can have your cake and eat it too.

Seaking: Definitely fallen from the highs of RBYPL, Gastly is higher than ever and midgame Seaking is very bad until their Gastly is gone. Still great and worth using since the NFEs that check it are easily revenged, but we have definitely reached a point where 100% Seaking usage can be taken advantage of. Works quite well with lead Porygon.

Graveler: Graveler, Magneton, Rapidash, and Scyther all share one thing in common, and it's Fearow is the one thing keeping them all employed. Graveler is the only one of the bunch that doesn't explode from a crit Hyper Beam so I'd say its the best. Graveler has such polarizing matchups so you can't really be that creative with building, you need to not lose to back fires and Gastly so you need your own back Arc or like counter Magmar, you need to not lose to Seaking so you definitely need Gastly (or your own dedge Seaking), you also need some way to deal with Staryu switching into Graveler so you'd probably are running Staryu since Vileplume and Drowzee introduce queen issues, and then you add Fearow and a lead. A sturdy enough team into stuff you'd normally see in the metagame, but when you run into stuff you don't normally see the team actually just doesn't function, Machamp ironically gives this core a hard time if it paraslams Staryu, double back fire also kind of farms it since there isn't much that switches into Fire Blast after your back fire dies so you probably have to give up something vital (your own Graveler), Gastly can quite easily be overloaded versus Agility spam and brazen plays like sleeping your Graveler with Hypnosis destroy it. Explosion is droppable, the only target it hits is Agility Porygon really, every other use case is very niche. Still good, but you can definitely surprise your opponent with Substitute and Counter on the same set.

Porygon: A lot better than it once was, as one twave on a team is quite common and Psychic being the standard on Porygon pressures Gastly a ton. Psydrops and paralysis gives Porygon really high chances to break past stuff that it honestly shouldn't, Gastly included, so two turns of bad luck can cause Porygon to get out of hand like a runaway train. Drowzee can completely stop Porygon, but I think stuff like Abra and Magneton are better since they tend to be a lot better than Drowzee if you do not get the right fish. As a lead it forces paralysis on an NFE immediately since it can sit on Arcanine (clicking Fire Blast is NOT a line) with Recover and you still get to have your own back Arcanine. On top of that it is painful to maneuver around without back queen. It's better than it has ever since non-Agility Pory died. I've said in the past that Porygon is most similar to an endgame wincon but I think that's wrong now, Staryu can't do much once it trades paralysis unless it is Psychic so midgame and lead Porygon usually gets paralysis on two things on average. Porygon is a bit like food without an expiration date, it could go bad tomorrow and get crit or it can last for a month and hax its way through all of the opponent's checks. At the end of the day PU is a very linear metagame and Porygon is unique in that tends to create complex gamestates.

Magneton: I think this mon is really, really good right now. Even if you know this mon is on the opponent's team it is difficult to prevent it from getting out of hand, many times you are simply forced to give up queen and trying to preserve it loses you too much material. Recent upswing in queenless also helps this mon a lot. Its affect on the metagame is really not felt in the builder but definitely affects how you play, you don't want to keep Staryu as your last where it is arguably at its strongest.

Rapidash: Exists to check Fearow but is very swingy, you need to hit two Fire Blasts which is something you cannot rely on and if you have this as your sole Fearow check you invite a lot of evil into your life. Luckily most people aren't fishing for odds so your opponent will most likely switch, but Fire Blast is relatively easy to switch into with back Arc, which can definitely allow Fearow to get out of hand. Also introduces Seaking issues. Agility and Substitute are both better 4ths than Fire Spin from my experience. Still decent as a Fearow check and worth using in the metagame.

Scyther: Same issues with consistency as Rapidash, you need to not get crit and then land a Hyper Beam. It doesn't check Fearow at full which constrains how you play but a +2 Scyther is very difficult to switch into since bulk (arc and queen) dissappears early into a match and Gastly tends to go away early too. I think it is lower than Rapidash since it switches into absolutely nothing, with Rapidash you can switch into your opponent's Fire Blast or Fire Spin or cope and switch it into a Drill Peck, but Scyther is even more of a defensive liability. Still a decent Fearow check that is rewarding to build around. I think this will be the biggest loser if Fearow gets banned, it cant set up in front of anything since it is afraid of everything, including paralysis, a lot of the stuff that doesn't have these moves also don't die to +2 Hyper Beam, and Fearow is the only thing it can set up a Swords Dance on barring rare stuff like Dedge Seaking or Magmar without Fire Blast.

Abra: Abra has been put in PU for one reason, and it is to maybe trade with Gastly after it sleeps something. On paper does a bunch of stuff like revenging Nidoqueen and paralyzing Porygon, but it is difficult to build a team around that stuff. Immediately revenged by a back fire or Fearow after Abra gets a KO, but this is par for the course in PU and you can use this to remove Fearow rather early in the game. There are some cute early game lines with lead waters but that just turns the opponent's lead Arc into a back Arc, something you do not want if you are using Abra. Still think this mon is barely good enough to be used, both Staryu and Gastly don't like seeing this mon so it can be used to facilitate midgame Seaking if you still believe in it.

Vileplume: Think this mon is a bit underexplored. Punishes Staryu and Porgon obviously, but also general bulk is nice to have versus other anti-meta stuff like Graveler, Magnets, and Scyther so its kind of like a third-order mon in the tier. One line I don't really see is switching out to Fearow immediately after getting sleep with Vileplume which punishes the common "stay in versus Vileplume to burn sleep, I have a Gastly anyways" play. Fearow probably picks up a KO, opponent can't sack their sleeping mon, Staryu continues to be walled. I think you have to double up on sleepers and use Gastly too since every team I've built with Vileplume has been better with Gastly over it, but I think Plume is usable and not outclassed.

Magmar: If you plotted how good I think this mon is over time it would look like a seismograph, I feel this is the hardest mon for me to wrap my head around. Right now I am a bit of a hater, it doesn't have good matchups against core PU barring Seaking and Gastly, and is pretty terrible against most of the anti-meta stuff, but sometimes you have lead Arcanine on your Graveler team and you really need to not lose to both Seaking and Gastly. Never missing and having set variety that can trip up your opponent is cool but I don't think that's a good enough reason to use it right now. I think it is at its act 2 low point, there is less reason to run Magmar when there is less Seaking in the metagame.

Drowzee: Only really worth running versus people who use Porygon. Dead weight against very fast teams.

Machamp: It has a niche in the tier since it absolutely farms Fearowless teams as well as teams that are super teched out to beat Fearow, but it is almost impossible to fit on a team without dropping Fearow or something since you really need Graveler. If you do remove Fearow somehow it is like a second, worse version of Nidoqueen that trades well versus everything. Definitely the biggest winner if Fearow gets banned since that's the most pressing thing holding it back right now, Gastly doesn't want to risk sleeping Machamp (and sleeping Machamp seems like low value anyways) and Fires are much more afraid of Machamp than champ is afraid of burns. I think it has its niches in the tier and you aren't shooting yourself in the foot when you bring it, but I don't think its good enough to hang with the real mons of PU.

Dragonair: I don't think this mon is good when Agility Pory exists. I've soured on Agility spam since you have to bring two mons that switch into nothing and your Arc/Fearow/Queen tends to trade versus the opponents Arc/Fearow Queen while your Agility NFEs trade with their Gastly/Staryu, leaving you in an awkward endgame. Always kneecapped by the fact that you need to an unreasonable amount of Wraps to win since Dragonair cannot take hits. Frail, switches into nothing, inconsistent and reliant on matchup, I don't like this mon right now.

Pinsir: This is mon is good on paper but lives in a comically hostile metagame. You know it's bad when Fearow is only the 3rd worst thing to happen to Pinsir. My opinions on back Arcanine probably make this placement not that surprising, a world where back fires are good is a world where Pinsir is bad. Fearow sucks since you get revenged by it, but it isn't that bad since you chip it real good and your opponent burns their Fearow on Pinsir instead of one of your NFEs. However, getting OHKO'd by Fire Blast with nothing to show for it is simply terrible, and the good traits of Pinsir are so disparate that you often just end up with Pinsir + 5 of the best 6 mons in the tier when building with it, and at that point just use big 6. Show me a Pinsir team and I will show you a better team without Pinsir. I still find some uses for it in lead setups, but the fact that most mons you want to save from Nidoqueen (Fearow) bait special moves is terrible since Pinsir dies from Blizzard into Fire Blast. I guess Fire Blast being the less common option on queen right now is good for it, but Fire Blast on queen is just as valid and it's not like you know which one everyone is running since Nidoqueen's 4th is rarely revealed. The payoff for using Pinsir is not that much, Slash isn't 2HKOing everything and I'd say the metagame is pretty bad for it right now despite the Substitute Nidoqueen usage. Also has an annoying guessing game associated with it, you don't want to Slash into Gastly and give up sleep but stossing into queen makes you feel real silly so you kind have to accept that Gastly will be coming in and stoss it into Fearow range. Pinsir having to predict also opens it up to getting owned by reckless lines like Gastly on Slash and Fearow on stoss so you probably just have to take the Gastly L so this stuff doesn't happen.

Omanyte: Omanyte facilitates real cool teams since it is the only mon that switches into both Arcanine and Fearow. If you build with that assumption, you open your 3rd eye and can build teams in the 4th dimension that are surprisingly effective unless Omanyte gets crit.

Slowpoke: We live in a world where Staryu's first entry is often its final one due to any chip putting it in Fearow range, but midgame Slowpoke doesn't have that problem. Having Thunder Wave + Psychic is decent enough at stopping Seaking and pose enough of a threat to not just get slept by Gastly. Sets are unexplored and you could also probably drop Surf for Reflect so Slowpoke can possibly win lategame with Amnesia/Rest/Reflect. Obviously this loses to Magneton but Slowpoke has enough utility in the midgame that I think it has potential. Crit prone but this mon is underexplored, it does something I swear

Arbok: Arbok fixes a lot of the issues Agility Spam has. Dragonair is reliable at putting paralysis on Gastly, Porygon is reliable at putting paralysis on Staryu so your Seaking or other sweeper can do stuff afterwards. However, running two NFEs that switch into nothing ironically means you are weak to your opponent's Seaking without Staryu or Gastly on your team. Agility Spam teams put a lot of effort into trading into an endgame that is basically a Seaking mirror. Agility NFEs have a tendency to create bizarre, complicated game states since Agility Spam teams have to tickle their opponent to death so switching around momentum sinks and taking paralysis is not that big of a deal for the opponent. This is where Arbok comes in -- instead of losing to Seaking, you can instead hit a very large number of Wraps. Arbok also has a sack of sand in its back pocket to hit the opponent with for the 1v1 at the end of the game, which means even if your opponent plays completely correctly they still need to bank on some good luck happening. This mon is the final piece of exodia on a barely viable teamstyle

Sandslash: This mon is what I'd consider a "3rd order" mon. Fearow, Arc, and everything in A are good because they kill everything. Graveler and all the other mons in B and to a lesser extent B- are usable since they have good match ups against some of the 1st order mons in the tier. Sandslash farms every second order mon, it beats Graveler, Scyther, Magnets, Psychic NFEs and mono-Psy Porygon but is terrible into the 1st order mons so it is not worth bringing.

Every mon not listed (Wartortle, Primeape, Pidgeot, etc.) is D tier at best. I don't have anything new to say about them.
 
:rb/arcanine: PUBD Team Dump:rb/fearow:
So PUBD ended and it was really fun to get to play RBY for the Sandacondas. Even though we came just short of victory, the past two months have been a blast and a fun opportunity to get to know some people in the PU community. Here I wanna share my teams and my thought process in each game.

First some thank yous. I absolutely have to thank the absolute GOAT Wanted in 49 States first. We reviewed basically all my games, you helped me build, shooting down some of my most crackheaded ideas, and we played way way too many practice games in the past two months. I also wanna thank gum and sensei axew for drafting me ofc, was really glad I got to play with you! And ofc the rest of the team for being a really fun group!

With that, let's get to each week!

Week 1 vs phoopes:
Game 1: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::graveler::seaking:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::nidoqueen::seaking:
Game 3: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::graveler::seaking:

So some context for this week. The PU LTC tour had just ended, where I got second place. I had historically not been a huge fan of Graveler, since I didn't drop queen back then, and Graveler + Nidoqueen gave a huge Seaking weakness, and this was right after RBYPL, which was a meta dominated by Seaking. However, during the LTC tour, I began to experiment with Nidoqueenless teams, and I realized that Graveler is an excellent fit on them, since dropping Nidoqueen can give a Fearow weakness, and you don't have the Seaking problem given by running two Ground-types. Replacing Nidoqueen with Graveler effectively means you are running a Ground-type that has a better Fearow matchup, but is basically worse overall outside of that one matchup. However, one of the biggest problems I had with the traditional "top 6" team was that it felt a little bit Fearow-weak for me, since the lead Arcanine was likely going down quick, Nidoqueen was your best bet versus Fearow, and lack of Rapidash or Scyther just makes the bird hard to deal with, which is why I found replacing Nidoqueen with Graveler effective here. Another advantage to Graveler is that it allows for early-game Staryu lines, since if you play Staryu early on traditional big 6, you get revenged by Fearow, making you weak to Seaking later on.

In terms of the rest of my teammates, the reason why I opted for the traditional big 6 structure this week was because of Phoopes' tendency to use Reflect + Rest Arcanine, which Seaking and Staryu love. I also vaguely remember rolling phoopes with a Seaking during (i think Slam?) so I felt it was a very good bring into him. Apart from that he didn't really have much of a scout (this was week 1 after all) so I just went with what the most proven team was in RBYPL.

Week 2 vs BP/Medeia:
Game 1: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::nidoqueen::dragonair:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::drowzee::nidoqueen::seaking:

Although I played BP this week, that was due to a last-minute sub; this entire week I assumed I was playing Medeia, so I prepped assuming she was my opponent.

So the one thing that immediately stuck out to me was Medeia's Porygon usage. It was very high, and I knew I could exploit this in some way. This is why I brought Dragonair and Drowzee this week. Dragonair could pressure Pory with wrap, and two twavers makes it very hard for Porygon to really do anything. Medeia also had pretty low Gastly meaning Wrap had the potential to be devestating. Drowzee is the hardest counter to Porygon in the tier, so that was also a good pick. What's funny is I never revealed Dragonair game 1, so I'm assuming most people thought I had a Seaking or Scyther in the back.

In terms of Nidoqueen vs Graveler this week, I opted for Nidoqueen both games because of Porygon. She has a much better Porygon matchup than Graveler. Looking back these teams were a tad Fearow weak, but that's something I think I improved on later.

Week 3 vs Teh:
Game 1: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::scyther::rapidash:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::magmar::graveler:

At this point my view on the overall PU meta had shifted a little. Historically I had viewed Arcanine Fearow Nidoqueen and Seaking as the top 4 mons, with Gastly and Staryu clearly a tier below these two mons. However, as I played and watched the tier, I felt like Gastly and Staryu were contributing more to a game and being overall better mons than Nidoqueen and Seaking. I had discussed this with Wanted a bit, and we came to the teams I should start spamming are Arcanine + Fearow + Gastly + Staryu +2. This structure is of course Fearow weak, so the +2 mons should have some way of handling Fearow. Here, you can clearly see that, with Team 1 having Scyther and Rapidash, the two mons that outspeed Fearow, and Team 2 has Graveler. My third team that I never got to use had Magneton for Fearow.

The reason why I brought these teams vs Teh specifically was that Teh is the type of person to spam fast mons. I didn't expect him to bring any of the slower mons like Graveler. I also knew Teh spammed Gast + Star + Seaking, so Seaking itself didn't seem like a good bring into him. Teh also hardly ever brings double fire or back fires in general, so I knew I could bring both of these teams (both of which are weak to back fires) and be fine.

Week 4 vs Sabelette:
Game 1: :omanyte::arcanine::gastly::abra::dragonair::seaking:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::magmar::rapidash::magneton:
Game 3: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::scyther::rapidash:

Some context for this week, our team was guaranteed playoffs at this point, so Gum said I could just fuck around this week, so these teams weren't the most serious stuff in the world, and I didn't really go off any scout since Sabelette and I RFNed. Because of this, these descriptions will be short since they were just based on theory.

So the idea behind the team Game 1 is to anti-lead Arcanine with Omanyte, then go Abra t1 as either Gastly or Staryu come in. If Gastly comes in, that really enables Dragonair lategame, and if Staryu comes in, that really enables Seaking lategame.

For Game 2, this team is built around the three fire-types overloading Nidoqueen/Graveler to enable Magneton late-game, while Magneton can fend off Seaking if nessecary.

My Game 3 team was just the exact same team I brought vs Teh last week.

Week 5 vs Cake:
Game 1: :porygon::fearow::gastly::staryu::arcanine::seaking:
Game 2: :nidoqueen::fearow::gastly::staryu::arcanine::rapidash:

So Game 3 of last week Sabelette absolutely washed me with lead Porygon, so I defnitely wanted to try it out this week. The reason why I opted for Seaking this game is because lead Porygon pretty much baits in one of Gastly or Staryu, both of which Seaking appreciate being weakned. She also has very low Drowzee usage (the one Drowzee team she had brought up to this point was one that I gave her for Medeia's high-porygon scout), so I assumed she wouldn't bring it. For game 2, I know Cake is the type of person to adjust her teams for G2/G3 based on how her earlier games went, so I figured that if G1 I brought porygon, she had a chance at bringing a lot of NFEs to G2 to deal with it, which Fearow and Fires are really good into.

Semifinals vs Cake:
Game 1: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::drowzee::nidoqueen::seaking:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::magneton::rapidash:
Game 3::arcanine::fearow::gastly::staryu::magneton::rapidash:

So I expected Cake to bring Porygon this time, she brought it against me in LTC finals and it basically won her the tour, so I was ready to snipe it with Drowzee. I also felt like Cake could drop Nidoqueen here since there was some discussion about queenless that week in RBYcord, so I decided to bring Magneton game 2. Not much else to say there, since I had just faced Cake last week these teams were largely based off of last week's prep as well.

Finals vs Sabelette:
Game 1: :porygon::arcanine::gastly::staryu::nidoqueen::seaking:
Game 2: :arcanine::fearow::gastly::abra::graveler::seaking:

So for Sabelette the main thing that stuck out to me was that her teams were very robust against Fearow, but not so much Seaking. She brought a lot of Scyther, Rapidash, and Double Ground teams. Because of this, my plan was to have the teams more centered around facilitating Seaking rather than Fearow. My game 1 team is very similar to my week 5 team with Nidoqueen over Fearow. Nidoqueen was really good at taking advantage of the paralysis Porygon spreads, and I didn't wanna go groundless since I was worried Sabel would bring Magneton against me due to my 40% Nidoqueen Usage over the course of the tour. For game 2, I played around with the idea of Graveler and Abra, one of the oldest cores of this tier. Abra is fantastic against Staryu and Gastly; Graveler could do something like let in the opposing Staryu for free, then I go Abra on surf. This also facilitates Seaking very well. Rest Abra is to stall out monopsy Porygon LOL.

Overall this was a really fun tournament and I was really proud of how I played and the teams I built. I was glad I got to meet a bunch of new people in the PU community, and play some exciting PU games with some of my good friends in the RBY community!

I'll end this essay with some spicy metagame takes that I dropped in discord a few days ago. These are supposed to be unpopular/controversial so if you disagree with me, I did my job.

  • Seaking is a step below the other top mons (arc bird queen gast staryu)
  • Vileplume is utter dogshit, the second worst pu-ranked mon after machamp, even abra is better
  • Magneton is defnitely PU, especially with the queenless wave
  • Abra is a decent mon due to the crazy gastly usage (gastly has overtaken nidoqueen in usage
  • Arbok has merit in this tier (i never brought it but used it a lot in testing, def has good traits, and i would say it's better than at least stuff like machamp and sandslash
  • Explosion is very droppable on grav, quake and slide are the only mandatory move
  • Lead porygon is real, but defnitely needs more experimentation
  • If you want to use graveler, use it over nidoqueen, not alongside it, u kinda get farmed by waters if u bring both
  • Arcanine is mandatory, nothing else is (although fearow and gastly should be brought to most games)
 
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Big 6 and the Lead Metagame

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This has been a very long time coming, but Big 6 is definitely not the best team in PU anymore. Big 6 was created when lead Arcanine was by far the most common lead (55% in RBYPL, and dropping Arcanine wasn't unheard of, so only 20% of teams had a back Arcanine). As such, the team is just extremely weak to back Arcanine, and doesn't really have good options. Nidoqueen is the only real Fearow check on the team, so trading Nidoqueen for their Arcanine is a no-go. Arcanine usually wins against Fearow in a 1v1, and Big 6 has nothing to revenge Arcanine after Fearow goes down, which means Arcanine can also fish for paralysis/burns on whatever comes in next, or just smack them with Hyper Beam. Gastly can switch into an Arcanine Body Slam and use Hypnosis, but on top of being inconsistent, it also forces you to reserve Staryu for their possible Seaking, which weakens you significantly in Magneton endgames. To a lesser extent, the opponent's Staryu also starts to become a problem since you cannot afford to trade Staryus without scuttling your Seaking plan. Seaking theoretically can switch in and not take much, but it isn't really a fan of taking paralysis, burns, or crits, and is quite easy to switch into with Staryu and Gastly, so you kind of just tread water without making progress. Still, when you load Big 6 and face a back Arcanine, switching Seaking into Arcanine is what you kind of resign yourself to, despite it being a mediocre line at best, unless you want to go gambling with sleeping Arcanine with Gastly. Big 6 in general has a terrible time with back Arcanine, and back Arcanine has been getting more and more common. RBYPL had 55% lead and 20% back, LTC2 had 61% lead and 27% back, PUBD had 63% lead and 30% back, and right now in Open2 Arcanine has 47% lead and 42% back, almost equal. You really can't justify running such a back Arcanine weak team in today's environment. Arcanine in general is a bit of a menace to the tier. The only two mons that you can rely on to remove an opposing Arcanine is Nidoqueen and your own Arcanine, waters theoretically could but in general are flawed in execution due to the existence of Gastly.

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Similarly, Fearow is a complete menace to the tier. You have 5 real options to combat it (Nidoqueen, Graveler, Magneton, Rapidash, and Scyther), and teams that don't have any of these kind of just crumble to Fearow's offensive pressure. Magneton, Rapidash, and Scyther are all rather shaky checks however, since they are very dependent on gamestate to actually do their job. Magneton can't check Fearow early game due to unrevealed Nidoqueens and Gravelers, but is rather decent at doing so late-game, Rapidash is inconsistent and generally weak to back Arcanine, which can switch into Fire Blast, and is just too afraid of everything since paralysis absolutely ruins Rapidash's ability to check Fearow. Scyther's Hyper Beam doesn't KO Fearow at +2 without Double-Edge recoil, and also flounders just as hard into back Arcanine as Rapidash, but also struggles into Graveler. It also shares the inconsistency problem, too. Not to say that these three mons cannot check Fearow or that they shouldn't be run, it's that you cannot rely on them to single-handedly check Fearow. You need to double up on "soft" Fearow checks to beat it (this isn't bad, for example, Rapidash generally doesn't want to trade with Arcanine, but if you also have a Scyther, trading with Arcanine is actually good for you, similarly, you can afford to trade your Rapidash for Nidoqueen if you also have Magneton. However, all these teams require two "soft" Fearow checks to work.) Mons that can solo check Fearow are also just Graveler and Nidoqueen. Graveler is actually capable of checking Fearow, but there are only like 4 or so decent Graveler structures and they all share the same 5 mons in order to not open up defensive holes that such a polarized mon brings to a team. Nidoqueen is the only catch-all Fearow check that takes one teambuilding slot. However, when Nidoqueen exists on a team to check Fearow, it cannot check Arcanine too, which means it is wise to also run a back Arcanine for no other reason than to check the possibility of the opponent's back Arcanine.

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Both of these present a problem -- you really want back Nidoqueen to deal with Fearow, and back Arcanine is generally hard to check without your own back Arcanine if your Nidoqueen is dedicated to beating Fearow. Running both of these mons in the back means the team builds itself, you have Nidoqueen and Arcanine, and double NFE is nearly nonnegotiable in order to not lose to Seaking. Obviously, Fearow rounds out the last slot, but you still need something in the lead. Nidoqueen and Arcanine are the two "best" leads in PU, but running definitely has opportunity cost, and if you want to run both in the back your hands are kind of tied. Lead Porygon is the best third option, but you cannot lead Porygon every time otherwise your life will be rife with Drowzee. As such, you really got to go dumpster diving for a good lead. Surprisingly, lead Rapidash isn't complete crap. Sure, it on average loses to Arcanine and really can't convert a turn 1 burn into something like Arcanine can, but it sticks paralysis on Arcanine well enough, so using it isn't ruining your chances. Similarly, Magmar can fulfill this role, and also has Counter. I don't think the PU lead metagame is as solved as thought before, since the best leads are also things you want to keep in the back.

w Lead Porygon
https://pokepast.es/7ffaeaf047df6d6d
w Lead Rapidash (You can replace Agility with Fire Spin. But I beg of you, please do not click Fire Spin turn 1. It is not a good line)
https://pokepast.es/6632bc4cb51a248d
w Lead Magmar (Magmar is very customizable. Both Hyper Beam and Counter can be dropped. Fire Blast is great because some people will switch out their Nidoqueen if they get special dropped turn 1. Confuse Ray can also be slotted on if lead Gastly picks up steam again)
https://pokepast.es/322d98a92cc7f8b7
 
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PU Rotational Ladder
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During August, there will be a PU Rotational Ladder suspecting Gastly. A lot of players have been somewhat unhappy with how swingy the tier is, in part due to Gastly's Hypnosis. On top of that, Gastly is very centralizing in the builder, as it strongly discourages using Pokemon slower than it and pushes the tier towards fast Pokemon like Arcanine and Fearow. As such, the PU council has decided to suspect Gastly for this rotational ladder.

So Gastly has exited the vacuum... How will each mon be affected?
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Gastly was the mon stopping you from bringing Seaking to every game, and now that it's gone this month, Seaking is in contention for being the top dog again. Almost everything good right now is weak to Seaking, like Fearow, Arcanine, and Nidoqueen, and without Gastly, Staryu is the sole Seaking check until you get to Magneton. The most likely outcome of this is that "good mons" will shift to include more mons that don't get blown out by Seaking, like Porygon or even Pinsir. Who knows, maybe Double-Edge will become the standard again literally just to beat down other Seaking.
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To the surprise of no one, when Seaking gets better, and only one staple Seaking check remains, the remaining Seaking check will get better.
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Gastly kind of bullied slow mons out of the metagame to the point that they just rarely, if ever, appeared in tournament.
With Gastly gone, bringing any of these three is no longer one step from throwing, Omanyte is good into Arcanine and Fearow, the two best mons in PU when Gastly is allowed to roam free, Vileplume sits on traditional Surf/Bolt Staryu, and Slowpoke is a great Seaking check when Gastly is gone. All 3 have something to do in the tier, but slow stuff usually gets optimized out of a meta. Still, all three do have shots of hanging in the tier.
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The tier getting a bit slower in terms of speed tiers definitely helps Nidoqueen, not having to worry about getting slept by Gastly and mons like Fearow and Arcanine no longer being risk-free due to Seaking and Omanyte being better will most likely shake things up a lot. Nidoqueen also kind of beat slow mons out of the metagame in our own timeline to the point where Nidoqueen is often times the slowest member on a team. If slow mons ever become good again, Nidoqueen will be a fearsome wallbreaker like it had been in the past. Lastly, in PU as we know it, the most common ways to deal with a full health Nidoqueen is to send out Staryu or Gastly. Gsatly is gone, and Staryu revenging is no longer guaranteed since Vileplume is no longer being complete crap, meaning Nidoqueen is a much more slippery target. Maybe Nidoqueen mirrors will come back in response to this. Fire Blast becomes a genuinely good option on Nidoqueen again since Pinsir will most likely get better.
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"Normals" will be a lot better in the meta if waters do a good enough job in discouraging spamming the fastest mons in the tier. Pinsir will definitely become a meta staple because it's the fastest mon worth a damn that doesn't get blown out by Seaking (Staryu too but having two Seaking checks is certainly better than one). Scyther now doesn't have to dedicate a move for one mon and can instead run Agility, or even weird options like Double-Edge, Quick Attack, or Substitute. Machamp getting better depends a lot more on whether slow mons like Omanyte or Porygon get better, but it will certainly be better than it is now.
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Agility Wrap Dragonair gets owned by Gastly since it sits on Wrap, but it's gone on this ladder. It's up in the air if Support Dragonair comes back, since it disappearing has less to do with Gastly and more the fact that the metagame sped up to the point that it just got a Thunder Wave off and died. Slow mons will certainly be better without Gastly breathing down their necks, but if the past is any indication of the future, in every lower tier fast mons eventually came to dominate.
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Gastly usage will surely suffer
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Abra was able to swim in the margins of PU because of Gastly's dominance, at times weirdly being better in PU than in ZU, but without Gastly terrorizing the tier, Abra will be close to unviable.
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Fires in general will have a harder time in the tier when Seaking gets better. Arcanine will no longer be the 1v1 king of the tier since its Fire typing will become a disadvantage, and switching Seaking directly into Arcanine doesn't get immediately punished in one turn. Interestingly, Arcanine mirrors are no longer a forced interaction since Omanyte becomes a real mon again that you can switch into. Rapidash probably stays the most steady out of all the fires since how good is it is directly tied to how good Fearow is. Magmar is a bit of a weird one, on one hand, it's a fire, but on the other hand, it doesn't get blown out AS hard versus Seaking since it has Confuse Ray that can hinder setup, and you can tech on stuff like Submission or Seismic Toss if Omanyte ever becomes a meta threat. Still, Magmar is a very anti-meta mon in current-day PU and it'll be hard to guess where it lands until the meta settles.
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Fearow becomes a bit worse, Gastly got super owned by Fearow and now it's gone. Fearow also was really nice on a team since you kind of wanted a mon faster than Arcanine in case things went sideways during an Arcanine mirror, and waters getting better means fires fires get worse. Furthermore, Omanyte can switch into Fearow, but this probably isn't going to be the deciding factor, especially since Fearow critting through Omanyte was kind of a meme in older eras of PU. I honestly don't know if Fearow usage dips because of Omanyte, Graveler is still run in current day PU and Fearow has >90% usage, which makes me hesitant to say Fearow is over. You'll still see Fearow and it will still be the PU bogeyman, it'll just a bogey a little less.
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Porygon and Drowzee dynamics kind of exist in their own ecosystem. In current day PU, Agility Porygon is quite decent with Seaking since it can incapacitate one of the two staple Seaking checks with Thunder Wave. However, Seaking doesn't "need" Porygon to do that anymore, and if Agility Porygon + Seaking ever becomes good, people will start running Drowzee. Porygon is also a rather decent Seaking check as long as you don't directly switch it in, so it could be used like that. However, Drowzee will probably get better no matter what happens since the power level and speed tiers get lower, so it is genuinely hard to say how good Porygon will be with two equally strong forces pulling it around.
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Magneton is like anti-anti-anti-meta, so it is nearly impossible estimate how good it will be before the meta it is three orders removed from has even settled. I guess more waters = electric good, but also Nidoqueen gets better and will start to stick around more, and unexpected consequences from other shifts (like Vileplume) may make it go the other way. Also it was pretty decent into Gastly post-sleep so it leaving may make Magneton worse? It took forever for Magneton to be a meta-staple, but that could have just been underdevelopment in player's skill but it could have just been changes in the meta made it better? In general a good heuristic is lower power level = mon gets better, but I can't give solid, irrefutable reasons on why it'll go either way.
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Graveler's no longer the only rock in town and Seaking gets better. Not only that, but Graveler teams in general tend to build themself and 100% rely on Gastly being there to not get mauled by Seaking and to also have something that baits out Fearow. Without Gastly, it's kind of difficult to imagine what a "good" Graveler team will look like, perhaps Omanyte just eats Graveler's lunch (probably not). Fearow will be a bit less centralizing and Pinsir/Machamp might get better, but also stuff like Scyther might get better and Magneton is a wildcard...
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So Sandslash was a real pick over a year ago when people were running non-Agility Porygon, Drowzee, and Omanyte, often times on the same team, and if this type of slow team becomes popular Sandslash may start to cook again. However, Seaking will get better, and whether or not its positive traits are enough to justify on a team is anybody's guess.
 
:gs/vileplume:
After about a week of ladder it looks like the biggest change the Gastly ban has made to the meta is that it made Vileplume going from a shitmon to a very big meta threat. This is because 1. No gastly to outclass it as a sleep user 2. No gastly to wall its shit coverage. However, the meta shifts are also friendly towards Vileplume, such as...

:gs/staryu:
Gastly and Staryu fit similar roles in RBY PU as Seaking checks and Nidoqueen revenge killers that were weak to Fearow and the Fire-types. These two mons are very important parts of the tier due to the prevalence of Nidoqueen and Seaking, and losing Gastly means Staryu is kinda on its own to fit this role. However, Staryu's main set has histocially been Surf + Thunderbolt + Thunder Wave + Recover, which thuds into the newly viable Vileplume. This means Staryu is much easier to keep in check, as it was very hard to switch into in Gastly PU, while now Vileplume is a safe switch. Even if Staryu slots Blizzard to hit Vileplume (which I imagine it will if this meta develops) it still doesn't 2HKO, and it has to give up one of its other four moves, all of which it really wants.

:gs/seaking::gs/nidoqueen:
These changes overall improve Seaking and Nidoqueen dramatically, making them easily the two top mons in this tier. I've always said that Fearow and Arcanine are miles better than Seaking and Nidoqueen in Gastly PU, which is a take I still agree with, but the removal of Gastly, and the introduction of Vileplume to handle Staryu are such heavy improvements towards these two mons that they both honestly seem pretty broken. Seaking in particular is especially worrysome.

:gs/gastly:
So overall how do I feel about the Gastly ban? Overall it's too early to tell but there will be one question in my mind as this month goes on and I play and watch PU games: "Do Gastly's good traits for the tier outweigh the brokness of Hypnosis?" Hypnosis is a very broken move on Gastly, as it completely removes skill and turns games into coinflips. However, I'm not sure if this tier is better off in a Gastly-less environment due to the lack of counterplay against Nidoqueen and Seaking. One of their biggest checks is gone from the tier, and the other has been nerfed tremendously.
 
S: :nidoqueen: :Arcanine: :fearow:
A+: :staryu: :seaking:
A: :porygon: :omanyte:
B+: :rapidash: :drowzee: :vileplume:
B: :pinsir: :graveler:
C+: :machamp: :magmar: :Scyther:
C: :magneton: :dragonair:
D: :slowpoke: :sandslash:

Ik gastly is free again but I wanted to drop my take on a gastly-less VR for awhile now.
I personally much preferred the tier without gastly. as i feel it's obnoxiously broken typing(ghost) completely invalidating or heavily restricting threats is problematic .
Add on its solid enough speed tier and access to hypnosis the pokemon is just annoying.
I do agree its role in combating seaking and nidoqueen is valuable but idt either pokemon was so problematic without it that I'd consider them unhealthy.
 
S: :nidoqueen: :Arcanine: :fearow:
A+: :staryu: :seaking:
A: :porygon: :omanyte:
B+: :rapidash: :drowzee: :vileplume:
B: :pinsir: :graveler:
C+: :machamp: :magmar: :Scyther:
C: :magneton: :dragonair:
D: :slowpoke: :sandslash:

Ik gastly is free again but I wanted to drop my take on a gastly-less VR for awhile now.
I personally much preferred the tier without gastly. as i feel it's obnoxiously broken typing(ghost) completely invalidating or heavily restricting threats is problematic .
Add on its solid enough speed tier and access to hypnosis the pokemon is just annoying.
I do agree its role in combating seaking and nidoqueen is valuable but idt either pokemon was so problematic without it that I'd consider them unhealthy.
uhoh
it was much more balanced without Gastly
 
Although I didn't play PU in RBYPL this year, I contributed heavily to our team's PU prep and watched all the games. Based on what I built for Gangsta Spongebob and what I observed during the games, this is my VR.

Screenshot 2024-12-08 at 6.20.40 PM.png


Note: It was honestly really hard to rank a lot of these mons! Especially the Staryu-Abra group, I reordered these mons tons of times while drafting this post and will probably disagree with this list tomorrow.

S Rank
:arcanine: Arcanine is the best mon in the tier and it's not really close imo. This is the only mon I consider to be truly mandatory in RBY PU (see: SSJ's 100% usage). It is the best lead in the tier, and the only reason to not lead Arcanine is if you want a back Arcanine. Arcanine basically defines the early stages of a PU game, even if you don't lead it it will likely come out early to fight Fearow/Gastly/Staryu or whatever. This means the poor Seaking matchup isnt even that big a deal since Seaking is a lategame mon, so Arcanine is usually dead by the time Seaking comes out. This mon is also a high stat machine that can trade 1-for-1 with almost the entire tier.

A Ranks
:staryu: Staryu at #2 I expect to be a hot take but I can explain my reasoning. This current meta is AMAZING for Staryu. One of Staryu's biggest downsides is that after taking any kind of chip damage whatsoever, it is in Fearow range and can be revenge killed by it. Due to the rise of Graveler, you are more likely to have a mon to fall back on for this inevitable Fearow revenge kill. Additionally, people are dropping Fearow more often now, meaning you may not even have to worry about this revenge kill in the first place! Graveler rising is also good for Staryu since it just ohkoes it. Staryu is also fantastic at doing what it normally does (checking seaking, nidoqueen revenge killer, fast twaver). I also believe that having at least one twaver is mandatory on a team in order to not get 6-0ed by Agility Porygon, and Staryu is the best one by a mile. Staryu does have some 4mss since you want recover to actually wall Seaking (outside of crits) but surfbolt tw recover can lose to things like Gastly, Vileplume, Dragonair etc.
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen is still fantastic, this has been a top mon since this tier's inception. Perfect coverage, impossible to switch into, good offensive stats and bulk etc. It is also good against paralyzed Agility Porygon since it is twave immune, allowing it to spam Earthquake until Porygon eventually FPs to death. This is also the go-to lead when you want a back Arcanine. I'm not a huge fan of Lead Nidoqueen cuz of how burns/crits can fuck it up, but the discovery of Surf makes this matchup is a little better. It does have one downside though. It's very hard to justify using alongside Graveler imo. This is because having all 3 of Nidoqueen, Arcanine, and Graveler make a team very vulnerable to Seaking. Even if you lead one of Nidoqueen or Arcanine, you still have two backmons that are Seaking food. There are some specific team structures that can fit all 3 but that generally forces your other 3 mons to be Seaking hate which restricts teambuilding in a whole other way. I'll go into this more in the Graveler section but it's the biggest thing holding Nidoqueen back imo.
:fearow: Fearow has obviously been hurt a ton by the rise of Graveler, but I think we may have forgotten that this mon is still really fucking good. If Graveler didn't exist this would be top 2 easily, and Graveler is not on every team, so you are still able to use broken Fearow if you dont run into the rock! Obviously if you do run into Graveler it's a lot worse off, but there are still some predictions involved (admittedly favored for the grav user). I played around with Mirror Move Fearow a bit since it can punish a Graveler that tries to use Earthquake to catch a switch. Despite Graveler rising, Fearow's ability to crit through teams and unmatched Speed tier (outside of some bad mons LOL) make it a huge threat. It is still THE nfe killer (grav is fake nfe).
:graveler: Graveler had a massive glowup this PL. It can switch into Fearow and creates a HUGE momentum sink for the opposing team. Graveler can pretty much safely click EQ on Fearow to catch a switch, and pretty much nothing likes switching into STAB Earthquake. If you don't want to predict, just use Substitute. Graveler has been used so much that a lot of people have started dropping Fearow in order to not get walled by it. Even against a team without Fearow, Explosion means Graveler can still get neutral value (if it finds an opportunity to blow up, which is quite hard against a fearowless team due to its limited switchin opportunities). The main downside to Graveler is what I was talking about in the Nidoqueen section. Graveler + Nidoqueen is very Seaking weak and if you want to run both you need a very specific team structure to not fold to the fish. The problem with this is that Nidoqueen is a great mon! So either being forced to drop it or running a very specific team to fit it is not great! However, the lopsidedness of the matchup if Graveler runs into Fearow is defnitely worth it.
:seaking: Seaking is a mon that I'm really torn on how to rank (just like most mons in this rank). Fearow/Graveler/Seaking can honestly be in any order imo. This is THE lategame mon. A +2 Seaking is extremely deadly and can just win the game against an unprepared team. However, your teams should be prepared to handle it. Staryu is a huge momentum sink for Seaking since it switches in then forces Seaking to either crit fish or switch out, and Staryu is very hard to switch into so this forcing out is really bad. However, if you are able to KO the checks then have an unchecked Seaking lategame, it should be able to win the game. It matches up well into a lot of mons. The rise of Graveler is also great for Seaking as well since Seaking just ohkoes it.
:gastly: Gastly I think is being overhated right now, it is still a great Seaking check and has perfect coverage and explosion. However its flaws are quite apparent. Hypnosis is really unreliable and it really relies on super-effective coverage for power. It is able to hit a lot of top mons though like Nidoqueen, Fearow, Seaking, and Staryu but it notably does not do much to Arcanine or Porygon. Abra is also a really big problem from it, especially if you drop Explosion for Substitute (which is something that I don't like doing anymore due to how good of a move Explosion is). I still think it is a fantastic mon though.
:porygon: Porygon has been steadily coming back into the spotlight since its massive tumble last RBYPL and it's finally a great mon again! It has a different set now, most commonly running Agility + Psychic + Recover + Thunder Wave but there are some other moves it can fit as well. The biggest problem with porygon is that it is an inherently luck-based mon due to all the crits, full paralysis, and special drops that can happen. Spamming Porygon can also be dealt with by mons like Abra (who can set up sub on mono psy) and Drowzee (altho this mon is quite bad).
:abra: Abra is the last mon who I consider to be a step above the rest of the tier. Although I was very low on this mon historically I feel like it has adapted to the current meta very well. Its glaring Fearow weakness can be patched up with Graveler, and it is great into Gastly, Porygon, and Nidoqueen. It can also set up Substitutes on Porygon and -1 Staryu which means twave isnt an instant death button like it previously was. Abra’s biggest weakness is back fires. They OHKO Abra with Hyper Beam and you can’t just slap a graveler on your team to counter them like you can with Fearow. However most Arcanines are in the lead slot while Rapidash and Magmar are less common so this isn’t a huge issue most of the time, but it is a way to exploit Abra spam. Abra also forces mindgames with back fires; Hyper Beam can be caught by a Grav switch and Slam loses to counter, meaning Blast is sometimes forced, allowing Abra to twave. This is obviously risky though cuz you can just lose your Abra if you predict wrong.

B Ranks
:machamp: Machamp is a mon that I really was not expecting to do well going into this PL considering how bad it has been historically. However Graveler stocks rising are great for Machamp since Machamp is a great form of Graveler hate and is also a great partner to Graveler since Fearow is Machamp’s worst matchup by far. Fearowless teams being more common is also really good for Machamp since it is honestly a huge menace if you can’t switch Fearow in; Earthquake and Body Slam are suddenly extremely safe clicks for it if there is no opposing Fearow. Machamp is also a decent lead although you risk getting burned and generally have to play mindgames on turn 1 (EQ the arc/queen staying in or slide to catch fearow).
:vileplume:Vileplume is excellent into teams without Gastly and has good matchups against SurfBolt Staryu and Double-Edge Seaking. It is also the most consistent sleep user in the tier by far (gasly hypnosis is not safe or consistent at all). The only problem is if Vileplume runs into Gastly it has no real way to threaten it outside of Paralysis, which is admittedly still good since it makes Gastly Ground food. Vileplume is also good at exploiting things like unboosted Porygon. To make the most use of Vileplume you should switch out to something like Nidoqueen or Arcanine immediately after sleep to punish a stay in on predicted Stun Spore instead of trying to SD sweep since Vileplume is quite slow.
:magmar: Magmar is a mon that I'm not quite sure where to rank. Its ability to force Counter mindgames with opposing fire-types is valuable, and Confuse Ray and Smokescreen can disrupt the flow of a game. I think it's a really good mon to have when your check to the opposing Seaking is your own Seaking, since getting a Smokescreen on their Seaking as you sack Magmar makes yours heavily favored to win the mirror. Psychic is also a great move since you don't have to go to a casino every time you want to attack Nidoqueen, Seaking, or Gastly. I'll talk about this more when I get to the Rapidash section but I think Magmar is defnitely better than it due to the rise of Graveler, since Magmar is a much better Graveler partner than Rapidash is.

:magneton: Magneton is slightly washed but I think I would still call it PU-viable. The big elephant in the room is Graveler; it is very hard to justify fitting Magneton on a team when Graveler is everywhere right now. Despite this, Magneton still has the traits it has had in the past; being the ONLY mon in PU that has a good matchup against both Fearow and Seaking, and basically unresisted STAB outside of the grounds. However, the terrible ground matchup is REALLY holding it back currently.

:sandslash: Sandslash is extremely underrated rn and has a lot of positives compared to its fellow grounds. It has the best matchup against Gastly and Graveler for example so it can be a good partner to teams that are weak to either of these mons. I just haven't actually found a team to fit it. A team weak to Graveler (like Fearow + Magneton) isn't magically "fixed" by just replacing Nidoqueen with Sandslash, and my Abra spam recently has made me not have to worry so much about Gastly. I do think certian teams can defnitely make Sandslash work though.

:rapidash: Rapidash sucks LOL I’m pretty sure SSJ and I built ZERO teams with Rapidash this tour and I have zero regrets about that. Historically I’ve used this mon as a Fearow check since Rapidash is one of the two (2) mons that outspeeds Fearow. However, I’ve realized now that if you want a Fearow check that folds to Seaking, Graveler is right there. Graveler is a lot more consistent at checking Fearow compared to Rapidash. But what if you want to use Rapidash as a fast offensive Fire-type instead, kind of like a Fearow alternative into a high-graveler scout? Well there are two better options for that role. You can either (1) use Magmar who has a much better movepool (100% accurate psychic, cray/smokescreen to disrupt setup mons) or (2) use non-lead Arcanine so you can run Arcanine in the back. Rapidash is also tricky to use alongside Graveler, since its main entry point is revenge killing Fearow, but generally Fearow doesn't kill stuff when you have a Graveler. All of these factors combined have made it EXTREMELY difficult to justify using Rapidash on any kind of team when I feel either Graveler, Arcanine, or Magmar can fulfill its role but better.

:dragonair: Dragonair has similar good and bad matchups as Vileplume but Vileplume's sleep is a lot more consistent than Dragonair's Wrap shenanigans. The re-surgence of Porygon has also made nair the third-best agility user in the tier (behind Seaking and Porygon) so it is a lot harder to justify.

C Ranks
:pinsir: Pinsir is a mon I really wish I could have ranked higher because IN THEORY it seems like it would work really well in the current meta! Less Fearow and more grav is good for it, and less back fires is also great! Its coverage compared to Fearow is much more relavant now. However in practice I never got this mon to work for some reason. It might be builder issue or skill issue, I'm not sure. I think most of it is that its roles are better equipped for other mons. If you want a strong attacker that is weak to fearow and back fires Abra is right there, and I think Machamp is a superior anti-grav option. However this mon is definitely viable and I wish I was able to make it work.
:drowzee: Drowzee is mainly a matchup fish mon but if you land it into Porygon is can generally get a positive trade. If there is no Porygon it can kinda find entry on Staryu/Gastly/Abra but this can just be done by better mons (like Abra). Overall Drowzee is not that great but the value in getting the Porygon mu fish is defnitely there.
:scyther: Scyther is so washed it makes Magneton look like an S-tier mon in comparison. I genuinely cannot justify bringing this to a game with all the Graveler usage. Bringing Fearow + Scyther into Graveler is a borderline unwinnable matchup. It also suffers from the same issue Rapidash does with Graveler being a more consistent Fearow check, meaning its near-unique ability to outspeed Fearow is less valuable. I think we're back in an era where Pinsir's coverage is by far the more desirable trait. Maybe when Fearow rises to NU Scyther will be in the spotlight again.

D Ranks
:arbok: Arbok has 80 base Speed wrap and EQ which lets it punish Seaking/Nidoqueen/Grav stuff but you still struggle a ton against faster mons and have to rely on hitting inaccuate moves.
:omanyte: Omanyte doesn't even check lead fires, so ur exclusively fishing for back fires with Omanyte. You invite Waters + Gastly + Abra in for free as well and Seaking is just way better because of how much more offensively threatening it is.

Stuff I didn't rank but could maybe work:
:marowak: s/o BeatsBlack Marowak unironically can maybe kinda do something in this tier. It has the traits Sandslash has (good grav/gastly mu compared to other grounds) and it also has moves like Counter and Blizzard which Sandslash lacks.
:slowpoke: Slowpoke could run a set of Thunder Wave + 3 Attacks I feel could maybe work on Slowpoke. I didn't rank it because I haven't used it or built with it but I think this is possibly a set that could maybe exist.

As a bonus I also decided to write some closing thoughts on the tier since this will likely be the last tournament with this version of PU due to an NU VR update happening soon.

I am honestly quite glad that this tier will be changing soon. I'm not very happy with the current state of the tier for many reasons. First the lead Arcanine shenanigans are one of my two biggest problems with the tier. I think everyone knows the problem with this mirror by now: It can be really swingy with crits and Body Slam paralysis. The rest of the leads are all exploitable in some way too. The other issue I have is something I call the "Porygon Slot Machine." Porygon is an extremely RNG-heavy element in this tier with crits, psychic special drops, and full paralysis. It really takes the game out of players' hands I feel. I also think tier is leaning towars being very matchuppy. I think if this tier keeps progressing as is with no tiering changes we are heading towards a Fearow/Graveler/Machamp matchup triangle. If you run Fearow you get owned by Graveler, but if you don't run it you get owned by Machamp. This is speculative (and since there are changes soon we'll never see if it actually ends up this way) but thats just what I think will happen.

I think the NU drops are mostly positive changes. Obviously nobody knows what will rise or drop but we can infer. If Arcanine rises to NU that eliminates what I consider to be the worst part of RBY PU. If Fearow rises, the potential matchup triangle I mentioned will cease to exist. I'm not too sure on what might drop. I think Kingler and Exeggcute are the two most likely. Kingler seems like it will provide better counterplay to Seaking and Fires without risking being overbearing itself due to its lack of Agility. I think this era of PU was enjoyable while it lasted, and it was fun to watch the meta evolve so much since Pioneer despite there being really only one tiering change (Porygon dropping), but I think it is finally time for this tier to have a fresh coat of paint.

Meta Ranking:
6. LTC/Slam 2023: This was a really not fun meta because Porygon just dropped but nobody knew how to fight it yet so we all just spammed Drowzee too. I really did not enjoy playing PU during this time.
5. RBYPL IV: The first half of this meta was similar to LTC/Slam 2023, which I didn't like. I did enjoy watching the rise of Seaking but I felt the tier kinda stagnated by the end of the tour.
4. RBYPL V: I just spent two paragraphs explaining why I don't like the current meta so read those lmao. I still enjoyed it more than last year since there is no "optimized team" this time around.
3. LTC/Slam 2024: This was the era of Magneton and it was honestly cool to have it be real for a bit. This tier was a bit swingy as always but overall I had more fun playing the PU circuit this year than last year.
2. PUBD: This is probably my personal bias but I really enjoyed PUBD because this is probably the time when I cooked the most. I think I had like 40% Nidoqueen usage this tour or something crazy like that. It was really fun building here. Lead Arcanine was also arguably at its least problematic here since we were all hyped by the new cool lead Porygon.
1. Pioneer: This was peak PU because nobody really knew what were doing LOL. We had Omanyte spam, Weepinbell to counter Omanyte spam, Arcanine somehow ending up in ZU, Pinsir at #2 and so much more. This tier was incredibly fun and I hope when the NU stuff drops we get a repeat of this meta as we all try to figure out how to play the tier again.
 
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The time has come. PU will update its VR. Like last time, the data will be interpreted with the vapicuno method. As per the new the tiering method, cutoffs will be decided by council, but having a cutoff in your VR will be greatly appreciated.

Requisites to vote were awarded for meeting at least one of the following criteria:

Finishing Top 4 in the RBY PU Tournament LTC
Winning at least one RBY PU set while playing at least three such games in PUBD I
Finishing Top 3 in RBY PU Open II
Finalists for the 2nd Ruins of Alph PU Tournament
Winning at least one RBY PU set while playing at least three such games in RBYPL V

To submit a VR, post your VR in this thread, or privately message me here on on discord (@caktusbronkitus). For the sake of the method used to create VRs, only your numerical rankings count, so your choices for individual ranks (S, A+, B3, etc.) are irrelevant, but you may include them if you wish. Data on submissions will not be released to the public until after RBYPL V ends. The Tiermaker can be seen here, but an ordered list is also acceptable.

The deadline will be one week after the end of RBYPL V, tentatively at December 15th, 11:59 UTC-8, but will be extended to December 22th if a tiebreak occurs.

Thanks to Volk because I stole his template.
 
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Didn't rank Pokemon I didn't think about using or facing during RBYPL
Seaking still wins games with broken agi, really easy to set up with teams that pressure Staryu hard. It provides great defensive support for Graveler although this often forces Double-Edge for switching into opposing Seaking, making the core somewhat prone to Vileplume.

Arcanine's outrageous stats make it a really fantastic Pokemon that I think absolutely shines in the back, it pairs amazingly with Fearow - having 2 Pokemon of that profile just allows these teams to outspeed and overpower the opposing Pokemon. Has neutral-positive matchups into nearly the entire tier, feels like a bit of a waste to auto-lead it (even though it's likely still the best lead)

Staryu is pretty self-explanatory, great speed and matchup spread, especially important role in slowing Seaking down. Please consider 3 atk more though, having all of Surf Bolt and Psychic is way more relevant than wanting to click Reco vs Seaking which is often a waste of time.

Coming out ahead at lead is incredibly impactful in lower tiers, since being forced to revenge first just lets your opponent position well for free. It can be really hard to come back from these early deficits, so Nidoqueen having a positive lead mu vs Arcanine is a huge boon (and keeping back Arc even moreso!) Crit-burn outcomes definitely suck, but absolutely so do the crit eq outcomes and of course the Arcanine mirror lottery. You can't be too afraid of less likely bad outcomes in the volatile lowtiers imo.

Graveler has really solidified itself as a dominant force in this meta, the Fearow matchup is so strong and it can just swing games really hard. Fearow should definitely stop switching out instantly, this not only preserves a Pokemon with a bad mu but also damages important Pokemon for later in the game. A much stronger option is to mixup Double-Edges and Nidoqueen switches, gaining huge momentum on a potential Rock Slide and forcing more mindgames for the Graveler player. I expect to see a lot more Fearowless with the Grav surge, but the bird is still ridiculously strong and retains decent options in the matchup. Players should also consider revealing Fearow and doubling to cover an unrevealed Graveler more.

Gastly is pretty mid, at its best when it clicks attacks but it's still pretty slow. Bailout Hypnosis is fine to rescue odds but going for random 60%s vs Queen or Grav is really egregious, it's often not a won game after that and a miss = instant loss. Still a decent profile with the solid Staryu and Seaking mus, and Hypnosis is also great for Porygon

I didn't use Pory nearly as much as I wanted to this tour, but the Agility Psychic Wave set is a pretty potent endgame cleaner as well as a potentially devastating lead vs teams lacking tools to deal with it. Still rly not a fan of tw reco 2a, crazy low floor and relies a ton on luck to do anything past 1 twave

Machamp is a worse Nidoqueen lead in that it also has a positive Arcanine matchup, but switches to Fearow are really scary. Keeping back Nidoqueen is great though.

Scyther/Pinsir + Dash teams offer an alternative to Fearow, I think these have a lot of potential but again didn't get the chance to use them enough.

Vileplume has pretty great traits into Dedge Seaking + Grav teams, time will tell how good it becomes. Also good into Surfbolt Staryu spam I guess.
Overall PU is a really fun tier, lots of volatility and rng but truthfully I don't think it's much worse than other lowers and Pokemon in general is so riddled with luck that PU is pretty mercifully swift with its judgement. Super unexplored tier as well, looking forward to see how it shapes up as time goes on. I also think banning anything would be a massive mistake when we know so little about this tier and it's being played so suboptimally.
 
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