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Resource RBY & Tradebacks Bug Report Thread
- Thread starter Joim
- Start date
Randbats is a different thread, and I've encountered Arbok on both the normal (borderline dead) ladder and Randbats.
Like I said it just might be my inexperience at this Gen talking, but I find these moves to be completely unfair when you can just Para everything or run Agility Dragonite and stop your opponent from doing anything.
Like I said it just might be my inexperience at this Gen talking, but I find these moves to be completely unfair when you can just Para everything or run Agility Dragonite and stop your opponent from doing anything.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
oh okay since you are talking about Arbok in serious play your point actually is invalid then lol
also not gonna lie if wrap were as powerful as you claimed it might have gotten a bit more use in SPL
14 | Dragonite | 4 | 6% | 0%
15 | Cloyster | 2 | 3% | 0%
current stats. I also don't see Arbok anywhere.
Actually, no-one's won a single RBY match in SPL with a wrap user on their team. And, remember it's bo3, so that's essentially 6-9 weeks worth of matches if we were to compare with other tiers.
also not gonna lie if wrap were as powerful as you claimed it might have gotten a bit more use in SPL
14 | Dragonite | 4 | 6% | 0%
15 | Cloyster | 2 | 3% | 0%
current stats. I also don't see Arbok anywhere.
Actually, no-one's won a single RBY match in SPL with a wrap user on their team. And, remember it's bo3, so that's essentially 6-9 weeks worth of matches if we were to compare with other tiers.
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- Usage does not always equate to viability or brokenness; just ask GeoPass which iirc which is rarely used in tournaments but incredibly powerful if you don't have one of the very few answers to it.
- It's kind of hard to get serious games when you're not a tournament player and the ladder is barely alive.
- I just found Arbok to be incredibly frustrating when I did fight it because it could Glare whatever it wanted if it got in on something slower like Chansey and proceed to Wrap trap it. I would appreciate it if a RBY veteran could tell me how to deal with it if it isn't broken instead of being an asshole like pieman here.
When said Arbok gets in on your chansey and is about to glare something, just thunder wave it
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
can we just clear this up by saying, the arguement's been had before, the main reason it's been banned previously is due to it being implemented incorrectly, and it's been decided that wrap is not broken in OU.
The way you deal with it is you don't let your whole team get paralysed, e.g. use chansey to get block status, after you've blocked sleep with something early on. You paralyse stuff aggressively, or play for freezes, or whatever you do, basically the whole thing is, don't get your whole team paralysed, don't let wrappers get up for free if you can avoid it (dnite's the only wrap sweeper I'll discuss here as it's the best at pure sweeping), you can carry a gengar to stall the wrap pp if you need to, you can carry rhydon or golem to stall the PP since every time you switch, the pp's worn away by 1 (don't let it roll over; count the PP; when it goes down to zero, stay in until the cycle ends, otherwise they get a fresh 63 PP); basically the list of good ways to beat wrap is:
1] Gengar - flat out stops it [Starmie and to a lesser extent Chansey stop cloyster; beware of freezes from blizzard; beware of explosion (that's part of why it's decent)]
2] Rock types [Golem, Rhydon, also Omastar is borderline viable (but not really top top tournament worthy)]
3] Alakazam/Starmie/Jynx - fast psychic types that can either OHKO (with JYNX's Blizzard) or Paralyse (with Thunder Wave) force them out. Obviously they're usually taking sleep, but carrying a second one's not unviable, they won't sleep every game, and wrap turns give them the opportunity to awaken for good measure.
4] Other pokemon - not letting them set up, so this means, always going for twave versus dnite when using chansey (they'll miss eventually, and then once you wrap them you can guarantee their defeat), body slam with fishlax (other variants might have to do different things, so when choosing your lax considering wrap might be relevant), body slam or blizzard with tauros (blizz does more damage, body slam has a 30% chance to make their pokemon's game over before it's started), twave with zapdos/jolteon, stun spore or explosion or sleep powder with exeggutor. Did I miss what to do with any other common Pokemon?
Also, Arbok's turn to set up glare makes it really really vulnerable to being paralysed by whatever, alongside its poor accuracy for glare (~90%?), alongside wrap's mediocre accuracy, and yeah don't let your whole team get totally paralysed is kind of a huge part of it. Just another reason why para'd chansey is good to have. Arbok also has huge weaknesses to ground/psychic which most of the tier can exploit, so it has a hard time coming in, a hard time spreading paralysis (outsource to another mon?), no way to boost its own speed (for the unparalysed tauros waiting in the wings), a much poorer attack stat than dragonite, and its weaknesses are more common than dragonites (see: probably 4-5 mons will have SE coverage on it rather than 2-3)
The way you deal with it is you don't let your whole team get paralysed, e.g. use chansey to get block status, after you've blocked sleep with something early on. You paralyse stuff aggressively, or play for freezes, or whatever you do, basically the whole thing is, don't get your whole team paralysed, don't let wrappers get up for free if you can avoid it (dnite's the only wrap sweeper I'll discuss here as it's the best at pure sweeping), you can carry a gengar to stall the wrap pp if you need to, you can carry rhydon or golem to stall the PP since every time you switch, the pp's worn away by 1 (don't let it roll over; count the PP; when it goes down to zero, stay in until the cycle ends, otherwise they get a fresh 63 PP); basically the list of good ways to beat wrap is:
1] Gengar - flat out stops it [Starmie and to a lesser extent Chansey stop cloyster; beware of freezes from blizzard; beware of explosion (that's part of why it's decent)]
2] Rock types [Golem, Rhydon, also Omastar is borderline viable (but not really top top tournament worthy)]
3] Alakazam/Starmie/Jynx - fast psychic types that can either OHKO (with JYNX's Blizzard) or Paralyse (with Thunder Wave) force them out. Obviously they're usually taking sleep, but carrying a second one's not unviable, they won't sleep every game, and wrap turns give them the opportunity to awaken for good measure.
4] Other pokemon - not letting them set up, so this means, always going for twave versus dnite when using chansey (they'll miss eventually, and then once you wrap them you can guarantee their defeat), body slam with fishlax (other variants might have to do different things, so when choosing your lax considering wrap might be relevant), body slam or blizzard with tauros (blizz does more damage, body slam has a 30% chance to make their pokemon's game over before it's started), twave with zapdos/jolteon, stun spore or explosion or sleep powder with exeggutor. Did I miss what to do with any other common Pokemon?
Also, Arbok's turn to set up glare makes it really really vulnerable to being paralysed by whatever, alongside its poor accuracy for glare (~90%?), alongside wrap's mediocre accuracy, and yeah don't let your whole team get totally paralysed is kind of a huge part of it. Just another reason why para'd chansey is good to have. Arbok also has huge weaknesses to ground/psychic which most of the tier can exploit, so it has a hard time coming in, a hard time spreading paralysis (outsource to another mon?), no way to boost its own speed (for the unparalysed tauros waiting in the wings), a much poorer attack stat than dragonite, and its weaknesses are more common than dragonites (see: probably 4-5 mons will have SE coverage on it rather than 2-3)
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Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
It would be legitimate, but the only simulator that allows you to vary this factor is NBS (Netbattle Supremacy) which either applies all PP Ups to all pokemon, or no PP ups to any Pokemon. Furthermore it's so mechanically incorrect as of now (para on normals with body slam being the #1 reason) means that in spite of there still being servers (although there's hardly any activity) it's irrelevant.
If PS or PO implemented the possibility of having a varied amount of PP Ups applied to a specific move, as would be accurate in-game, then you'd have to adjust your strategy for that (waiting out the wrap cycles when you hit 20, 24, 28, 32 each time until they're out of PP). So as it stands, it's simply not implemented on servers, but if it were it'd add an additional element to wrap's advantage.
Don't do that.
Also guys do NOT discuss gen 1 meta on this thread. This thread is for gen 1 bug reports. Also I've removed partial trapping moves from randbats because they make battles longer and less interesting to all players.
Just a couple of bugs that I'm not sure if they are implemented:
If a pokemon uses hyper beam and then the other pokemon uses wrap and misses, the first pokemon will not need to recharge. If the wrap miss occurs in the turn the first pokemon couldn't select a move (due to needing to recharge), it will automatically use hyper beam again, and then recharge in the next turn (unless the other pokemon uses wrap again).
Example:
Dragonite uses surf
Snorlax uses hyper beam
Dragonite uses wrap and misses
Snorlax uses hyper beam automatically
Dragonite uses surf
Snorlax recharges
Example 2:
Tauros uses hyper beam
Dragonite uses wrap and misses
Tauros can select and use any move
Dragonite uses whatever
Second bug: thrash/petal dance lock the user even if the move misses (and a miss doesn't automatically end the sequence either). So for example if my nidoking uses thrash and misses due to a 255 or acc/eva modifiers, it will have 1-2 turns of automatically using thrash before getting confused. Just as if the first thrash had not missed.
P.S.: by wrap i mean clamp, bind and fire spin too
If a pokemon uses hyper beam and then the other pokemon uses wrap and misses, the first pokemon will not need to recharge. If the wrap miss occurs in the turn the first pokemon couldn't select a move (due to needing to recharge), it will automatically use hyper beam again, and then recharge in the next turn (unless the other pokemon uses wrap again).
Example:
Dragonite uses surf
Snorlax uses hyper beam
Dragonite uses wrap and misses
Snorlax uses hyper beam automatically
Dragonite uses surf
Snorlax recharges
Example 2:
Tauros uses hyper beam
Dragonite uses wrap and misses
Tauros can select and use any move
Dragonite uses whatever
Second bug: thrash/petal dance lock the user even if the move misses (and a miss doesn't automatically end the sequence either). So for example if my nidoking uses thrash and misses due to a 255 or acc/eva modifiers, it will have 1-2 turns of automatically using thrash before getting confused. Just as if the first thrash had not missed.
P.S.: by wrap i mean clamp, bind and fire spin too
http://imgur.com/a/oZrsS
When using multi hit moves in gen1 custom battles (allowing multiple of the same move) if you start a move with clamp#2 it starts the move, but a PP is not used, as it is a multi turn move. On the rest of the turns (with clamp its like 3-5 turns or something) you may then continue the use with clamp#1 (which is out of PP). When the move ends, if you clicked clamp#1, it uses up a PP and clamp#1 is at 0, and thus can't be used. But you can start a new clamping with clamp#2 and then continue using clamp#1, essentially giving clamp#2 ifinite pp
When using multi hit moves in gen1 custom battles (allowing multiple of the same move) if you start a move with clamp#2 it starts the move, but a PP is not used, as it is a multi turn move. On the rest of the turns (with clamp its like 3-5 turns or something) you may then continue the use with clamp#1 (which is out of PP). When the move ends, if you clicked clamp#1, it uses up a PP and clamp#1 is at 0, and thus can't be used. But you can start a new clamping with clamp#2 and then continue using clamp#1, essentially giving clamp#2 ifinite pp
During the turn a pokemon needs to recharge move selection is skipped because the battle menu won't pop up. If you get to use a move during that turn because the recharging status is removed mid turn (due to the other player's use of a trapping move), the last selected move will be used, that is, the hyper beam selected the previous turn.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1randombattle-206802666 turn 12. I explode on a Sub, but it doesn't KO me?
That's supposed to happen, it's an awesome glitch. Breaking subs with Hyper Beam also negates the recharge.
That is actually intended, it is a known bug in gen 1 games that if you use explosion on a substitute, it doesnt ko your pokemon.
Wasn't sure if it was a G1 glitch or a sim bug. Thanks :)
Hi SonicJaxx, I am no expert on how Counter works in Gen1, but is it possible that u used Bodyslam or another normal -or fighting type attack before Hyper Beam? In that case I could imagine, Counter may have countered that attack instead of your Hyper Beam. Otherwise I don't know what it was, but I doubt Counter can counter an attack that misses...