Metagame Re-Evolution

[Wes8888]

Made a team with a bunch of top raises just to get a feel for the meta:
to -> 300 to 600 (300)
to -> 230 to 530 (300)
to -> 185 to 475 (290)
to -> 210 to 455 (245)
to -> 278 to 518 (240)
I wanted to use Chansey for sr, but unfortunately hp does not boost past 255 base. So I used Blissey as it gets a considerable def boost instead. Maybe I will switch it for another sr eventually.
https://pokepast.es/295088384337d7c3

Melmetal does not "technically" evolve from Meltan in the main games so it actually doesn't get a boost

 

[Ch17770w]

Melmetal does not "technically" evolve from Meltan in the main games so it actually doesn't get a boost

Ye just found out the hard way lmao

 

[Nub11]

can I point out that with the thick club boost, Alolan Marowak becomes one other the most insane wallbreakers ever? Cubone's attack stat is 50 while Marowak's is 80, 80+30=110 and you DOUBLE THAT with the thick club, the unbolted attack stat (if you don't count thick club as a real boost) becomes higher than even a Mega-Mawile, and the 10 extra speed it gets is nothing to sneeze at, set up a single flame charge and a max speed Marowak is ko-ing everything, HO teams with sticky web and/or tailwind are about to go NUTS

60/135/1/225/160/30


97/58/85/235/75/50


90/195/165/80/165/1

Could be good on Trick Room. Especially Escavalier.

been trying vika, hit's like a truck but I need a better physical, Alolan Marowak is strong but too hard to work with so might test Cursola, thanks for the suggestion

 

[JTD783]

can I point out that with the thick club boost, Alolan Marowak becomes one other the most insane wallbreakers ever? Cubone's attack stat is 50 while Marowak's is 80, 80+30=110 and you DOUBLE THAT with the thick club, the unbolted attack stat (if you don't count thick club as a real boost) becomes higher than even a Mega-Mawile, and the 10 extra speed it gets is nothing to sneeze at, set up a single flame charge and a max speed Marowak is ko-ing everything, HO teams with sticky web and/or tailwind are about to go NUTS

been trying vika, hit's like a truck but I need a better physical, Alolan Marowak is strong but too hard to work with so might test Cursola, thanks for the suggestion

I haven’t tried Alolan Marowak outside of Trick Room so I can’t speak for its value on HO, but it’s extremely strong in general. Very fun to use.

Azumarill and Diggersby are also good options for the “getting their attack stat doubled” category. Azumarill has the best typing of the three while Diggersby is the fastest. I recommend trying all of them.

 

[Nub11]

https://pokepast.es/50cbaf3acc7297b5
Rushed to make a team after learning about this insane om, the power level of this one is gonna be higher than AG with all these ridiculous mons going around. Hat and Vika are both completely insane, and Maro has the highest starting attack in the game including megas Amoonguss is doing well as a wall,

I haven’t tried Alolan Marowak outside of Trick Room so I can’t speak for its value on HO, but it’s extremely strong in general. Very fun to use.

Azumarill and Diggersby are also good options for the “getting their attack stat doubled” category. Azumarill has the best typing of the three while Diggersby is the fastest. I recommend trying all of them.

Swapped to a trickroom team when I realized the potential that Hatterene and Porygon2 had in this om, I'm also trying out Azumaril and Digger but I think Golisopod seriously outclasses all of them, currently looking for a fire type to deal with my teams inability to hit steel types aside from Mystic Fire on Hatterene, so ill probably go with Maro

Flareon @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Quick Attack
75/205/70/110/155/75 (remember that the attack stat is guts boosted)

 

[Hightide]

don't think i've seen anyone talk about this guy yet

170 / 175 / 110 / 65 / 70 / 70
Bewear @ Choice Band
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Double-Edge
- Darkest Lariat
- Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Filler

insane physical bulk with fluffy, takes pretty much every contact move like a champ. attack is very solid, it's not incredibly high compared to some other fighting types but it's still strong enough to deal some serious damage to just about everything. even max def toxapex gets 2HKO'd by double-edge.

here's what physical attackers need to just barely 2HKO bewear (and how they get OHKO'd back)

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fluffy Bewear: 135-160 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fluffy Bewear in Rain: 204-240 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fluffy Bewear: 256-302 (47 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barraskewda: 375-442 (123.7 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fluffy Bewear: 344-407 (63.2 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade: 420-495 (124.6 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[CaioXLive12]

We on this metagaming can give a Highlight to Eeveelutions. Eevee is a weak mon, and all eeveelutions gets the same template on thier base stat:
One stat is 130, One is 110. One are 90. Two are 65 , and the last is 60. This means that all eeveelutions will get 2 massive boosts and one ok boost. We can do a highlight to Umbreon, Espeon, Jolteon and Vaporeon.

Soon i will post some sets

(Massive Boosts: Status in Bold are the 110 or 130 stats, that received the bigger boost.)
Umbreon(Massive Boosts: HP, Def and Sp. Def) is a pure defensive mon. All of his offense stats sucks on regular metagaming and here too. But he gets a really good defensive boost. He can be a good cleric and wish supporter. Better than blissey, that because of chansey be a good mon already, doesn't get any notable boost.

Vaporeon(Massive Boosts: HP , Sp. Atk and Sp. def) has the high HP of eeveelutions , and their Sp. def is also boosted. Their type, defensively, is great, however he gets a issue that make it worse than Umbreon: his Physical defense base is 65, so Vaporeon doesn't get a good boost, making him extremelly fragile on Physical side.

Jolteon(Massive Boosts: Sp. Atk , Sp. Def and Speed) is the fastest eeveelution, and their speed is greatly boosted. A great Sp. Atk make it a great offense. the only problem that i've seen on him is he don't get any Ice move(If someone pretends to do a non-official tour of this OM, i recommend do it on National Dex, so some electric mons gets HP Ice and become less worse.), that force it to switch out if opponent enter with a ground type.

Espeon(Massive Boosts: Sp. Atk, Sp. def and Speed) has the most OP abillity beetween eeveelutions, and one of most useful, that only aren't used too much on OU because the mons that get it are weak: Magic Bounce. Simply bounce back most part of status moves if you don't know, including Entry Hazards, Defog(That means that you can set screens and defog will not remove it) and Status-condition moves(Toxic. Will-o-Wisp, or TWave, for example). Espeon, unfortunately, doesn't have great bulk, but can be useful to set Dual Screens.

Honorable mentions to Leafeon, a mon that get good on offensive side(Massive Boosts: Atk, Def and Speed), with the biggest problem being the lack of moveset, but you can do something with Double Edge + Leaf Blade or use a defensive set, even not being too good because Grass-type has 5 weakness. , and to Glaceon (Massive Boosts: Def , Sp. Atk and Sp. Def), that become more bulk defensively, but the terrible defensive type make it not too useful.

 

[Zenpoppa]

Does anyone feel like the HP boost make some mons a little too bulky? I understand that offensive stats can be skyrocketed into the 170-190 range and some even over 200. It still feels like the impact of those stats are negated by the boosts in the defensive stats AND HP of the opposing mon.

 

[Daniel Tambo]

Hi, I am new here, please, insta ban barraskewda, I mean, there 0 switch-ins to that shit, 2hko all my team xd, even being a turbo defensive mon.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

Hi, I am new here, please, insta ban barraskewda, I mean, there 0 switch-ins to that shit, 2hko all my team xd, even being a turbo defensive mon.

Please try using Toxapex or Tsareena or Rillaboom or Corviknight. If you can’t fit a counter to one of the most common threats on your team, then make a new team.

 

[KaenSoul]

Does anyone feel like the HP boost make some mons a little too bulky? I understand that offensive stats can be skyrocketed into the 170-190 range, and some even over 200. It still feels like the impact of those stats are negated by the boosts in the defensive stats AND HP of the opposing mon.

Toxapex get no HP boost and Slowking-Galar gets around 5 points, yet are seen as the top walls. The change wouldn't be fair to most other walls that really need the boost to keep up.
But I get the complaints about the tier being too bulky, and would prefer if the focus was toward action in any wall in particular, so anyone can go ahead and try to convince others to make elaborate posts about banning Corviknight or Slowing-Galar if they believe those are causing problems.

Hi, I am new here, please, insta ban barraskewda, I mean, there 0 switch-ins to that shit, 2hko all my team xd, even being a turbo defensive mon.

I don't think action is needed towards Barraskewda currently, there is enough counterplay even outside of water immunities (Seismitoad, Gastrodon, Mantine, Vaporeon, Jellicent) those being Golisopod, bulky Noiverns, Toxapex, Rillaboom, Kommo-o, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Tangrowth, Eldegoss, Dragonite, Starmie, defensive Tsareena, Azumarill and some others.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

This format looks like a kusoge format. So it got me interested.
So much vile stuff that is viable. But given the sheer bulk of the format, I think Balance and Stall are the ways to go.

Ty Byleth for a great sample stall team. Its been a great starting point.
For an original team, Im thinking and could make a strong fire/water/grass defensive core to build a team around but unsure about other 3 team slots.

Link to sample team I made. No idea if its actually good or not and def needs work.
https://pokepast.es/473a761da9a5e358

 

[Zenpoppa]

Toxapex get no HP boost and Slowking-Galar gets around 5 points, yet are seen as the top walls. The change wouldn't be fair to most other walls that really need the boost to keep up.
But I get the complaints about the tier being too bulky, and would prefer if the focus was toward action in any wall in particular, so anyone can go ahead and try to convince others to make elaborate posts about banning Corviknight or Slowing-Galar if they believe those are causing problems.

I don't think action is needed towards Barraskewda currently, there is enough counterplay even outside of water immunities (Seismitoad, Gastrodon, Mantine, Vaporeon, Jellicent) those being Golisopod, bulky Noiverns, Toxapex, Rillaboom, Kommo-o, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Tangrowth, Eldegoss, Dragonite, Starmie, defensive Tsareena, Azumarill and some others.

Corviknight, Slowking-galar, Clefable, Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn. Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid Strike more often than not will fail to KO Ferrothorn even after Stealth Rock and if it's under 50% it will potentially lose a 1v1 it usually always wins.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

Corviknight, Slowking-galar, Clefable, Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn. Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid Strike more often than not will fail to KO Ferrothorn even after Stealth Rock and if it's under 50% it will potentially lose a 1v1 it usually always wins.

All the Pokémon you listed DO get HP boosts, but is there counterplay to all of these? Yes. All of them can be handled with some combination of Tyranitar, Gallade, Urshifu, Glowking, or other strong breakers. There’s also toxic, hazards, leech seed, etc chipping away at these mons. And finally, the power level is ABSURD. Base 150 offenses are considered just good here. The HP boosts are needed to make the offense not overwhelming.

 

[KaenSoul]

Corviknight, Slowking-galar, Clefable, Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn. Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid Strike more often than not will fail to KO Ferrothorn even after Stealth Rock and if it's under 50% it will potentially lose a 1v1 it usually always wins.

The problem with removing the HP boosts is that is a way to nerf Corviknight, Clefable and Ferrothorn while causing the most collateral damage possible.
Slowking-Galar gains 5 HP, so it would stay almost the same, Umbreon and Mandibuzz see a lot of usage mostly because Calyrex-Shadow is still difficult to handle, specially with Yveltal decreasing in viability compared to Ubers.
I do believe some action has to be made to nerf fat teams, but that isn't the answer, instead we should focus on the problematic pieces of the metagame, we are currently discussing the possibilities of a suspect test on some of them in the near future.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

Galarian Slowking and Calyrex Shadow have been quickbanned!

Galarian Slowking has always been the #1 Pokémon in Re-Evolution. With its combination of insane bulk, monstrous special attack, and every move it could ask for, many players consider it mandatory on teams. Its Future Sights elevate already terrifying breakers such as Garchomp and Tyranitar to new heights, and it can use tech such as Fire Blast, Psyshock, Ice Beam, and Scald to deal with the few things that may threaten it.

Calyrex Shadow has been a ridiculously hard Pokémon to deal with, as proven by the recently added ladder and the ongoing Kickoff Tour. Its presence mandates a ghost resist on every team, which is often exploitable by other strong Pokémon such as Garchomp and Gallade. This, combined with its numerous sets to beat its counters such as Trick Nasty Plot or Substitute Leech Seed, make it near impossible to safely switch into.

Tagging Kris to implement.

 

[KaenSoul]

(i know is not an evo, but it looks cool like this)​

Caly-S had to go as it was forcing the use of Mandibuzz, Yveltal and Umbreon to have a semi really check that wasn't easy to wear down, and even those would have problems with Trick and Sub seed sets, same applies to less effective and generally bad mons like Incineroar and Krookodile. Stuff like Hydreigon and Scrafty take too much from Draining Kiss, Bisharp didn't have the bulk to switch in that often, and Obstagoon wears itself down with Flame orb. Mandibuzz and Umbreon are in general too easy to abuse and invite anything that takes little from foul play, while Yveltal just doesn't keep up with the meta and was only used as a Calyrex-S check. So at the end the only really effective not passive answer was Tyranitar.

​

Slowking-Galar was voted right after as now it would have an offensive check less, Caly-S was one of the few special attackers it couldn't beat and the departure of one of the main offensive mons would make the tier more favorable for bulky teams, so the need to begin with the stall hits become more evident, for now we are removing one of the main Regenerator abusers, Slowking-Galar let stall teams have a very reliable answer to some wallbreakers like Lucario and Togekiss while also gaining a lot of power thanks to 180 SpA letting it deal some serious damage on not so bulky offensive mons, specially after a NP, and that set was gaining popularity in high ladder stall teams as a way to also deal with Balance. Glowking was also holding back a lot of stuff in the tier, so the viability of multiple special attackers should rise now.

In other news:

​

I fear Toxapex could become too strong now, as it has two Psychic type less to worry about, Glowking was its main answer as it could switch into, absorb potential Tspikes and Future sight to let a breaker beat over it, but it was decided to let the meta settle before further action as removing two of the most influential mons is going to cause some serious changes in the tier and new answer could appear. Toxapex is my main priority for now.

(This is all my personal view, not the council's)

Also
Both Pokémon will remain legal for the rest of the kickoff tournament as is about to end anyway and wouldn't be fair to change the tier for the finals.

 

[ponchlake]

So Flapple has 180 Atk and 120 Spd to go with its Hustle ability in this meta. A quick look at the calcs show that a combintion of Grav Apple + Outrage decimates anything that isn't Ferrothorn. The -1 Def from Grav Apple usually means a follow-up attack is going to kill something. But Flapple faces two major problems of 1) Fairy types and 2) You don't miss attacks in the Damage Calculator. Which just means Flapple is an ungodly wallbreaker on paper unless you have Joey Wheeler levels of luck. +1 LO Outrage is your biggest source of damage and 2HKO's "resists" like Necrozma Dusk-Mane and Ferrothorn. However, this is where the Fairy types come in and ruin your day, because locking yourself into the one click kill button that is Outrage turns into you losing your Flapple. You could get very easily around this by using Dragon Rush since the damage is comparable, but good luck hitting Dragon Rush under Hustle. I can't even hit Sacred Fire, let alone 60% accuracy Dragon Rush, so this is not something I can use without risking my sanity. 60% accuracy is also the same chance of flinching with Serene Grace Iron Head/Air Slash, and some people have no problem getting 8 of those in a row. So to those people, I present to you Flapple.

 

[Gimmicky]

Thoughts on the Bans

Calyrex-Shadow

This thing had to go, in my opinion. Even in a meta as powercrept as reevo, it easily decimated unprepared teams. Being forced to run the easily exploitable Umbreon or Spdef Mandibuzz, or the underwhelming Yveltal wasn’t particularly healthy. I support this overwhelmingly.

Glowking

This is a ban I am strongly opposed to. Slowking-Galar was a centralizing force, yes, but that does not make it banworthy. Glowking was an incredibly good Pokémon that stopped a variety of otherwise overwhelming special attackers, was a pivotal tool against many team structures, and a great general offensive and defensive mon. Without Slowking-Galar, I fear that attackers like NP Lucario and defensive pokémon like Toxapex might become too overwhelming. This isn’t a case of broken checking broken. Slowking-Galar could easily be broken itself by most physical attackers, was vulnerable to passive damage, and most sets ran no recovery beyond Regenerator, meaning any attack doing above 40% could wear it down quickly.

In my opinion, Slowking-Galar was not quickban worthy, and at least deserved a suspect test, but I ultimately understand why the council chose the route they did.

Expect a lot of Toxapex and strong Special Attackers. Lucario will excel, I think.

 

[Iynhe]

Since I wasted the last 5 hours at least creating this team and it's still crap since I created it alone, I want to share it with you so you can point at obvious weak points and laugh and maybe change it to make it better.

https://pokepast.es/115492f237e3315c

Teambuilding process and explanation

After playing with random mons that I liked, all in the same team, I was positively impressed by Gallade and Darmanitan.
Gallade's role is to be a wallbreakera and sometimes a cleaner with SSneak.. SD is definitely useful to grab those ohkos; Shadow Sneak is there because it's sadly a slow pokemon for this format. Sadly it's not that powerful; Zen Headbutt and Close Combat are STABs. Headbutt over Psycho Cut because it's stronger, but if you're scared of missing go with the Cut.
Darmanitan is speedy and there are 2 mons that can switch in more than once and not die immediately. Slowbro (that's why I use it) and Toxapex. Bulk up is there because you cause a lot of switches and you can capitalize on them. Flare Blitz is STAB; it hurts you too, but even if Darmanitan dies after reducing the HP of like 3 opposing mons to less than 30% who cares. I had rock slide in third position, i don't even remember why, but I have decided today that Toxapex was not going to be a switching and I changed it to Zen Headbutt. That means that 10% of the time the Pex is a switchin, but whatever. U-Turn, albeit makes you lose 10% life because of Life Orb, is there so you grab momentum and you don't wast Bulk Ups.
Then I started to find my physical wall (I'm a bad teambuilder and player, so I found myself to always go Physical Wall, Special Wall, 4 other mons) and I wanted one that could come in opposing Darmanitans and not lose to mons high in the VR.
Slowbro is perfect. Scald is STAB and is useful, Thunder Wave because Gallade is slow (albeit I'm not sure i can TW on Noivern, which was also one of the reasons I wanted TW), Slack Off for survivability and Teleport because it's really useful to grab momentum.
Tyranitar is the answer to the worse question I had to ask myself. How do I beat Pelipper and Frosmoth? I accidentally found a 2 in 1 answer, but at first I wanted a Thunder lure for Pelipper and a 111 speed+ scarfer for Frosmoth. Well, TTar is faster than Pelipper and survives both Giga Drain and Bug Buzz at full health in sand. SR because everyone needs to make sashes and stury useless and rack up passive random damage. Stone Edge is STAB and destroys Moth. Thunder with 36 spa annihilates Pelipper (because weather shouldn't exist along with TR) and Taunt because it's always useful. I went with a -Spe nature because I wanted to preserve my defence and I still outspeed Pelipper, but that can be changed.
Toxtricity (first time I get the name right from the start; i hate it) is my scarfer. Since I already had a Moth answer, I just needed something that could outspeed stuff and hit it hard. I went with the first mon that had different coverage than the rest of the team, since I already had wasted so many hours at this point. Stab (30% para chance is more useful than Overdrive imho), Stab, strong move that utilizes the ability, momentum.
In his place I had Dragonite at first as speed control (Banded Espeed <3) but I then decided that Dragonite didn't really help me create a good team with Gallade and Darmanitan and I wanted to use them more than it.
Mew is last here. I have tried various Spdef walls but either they didn't work or were Clefable (extremely useful, don't get me wrong, but moonlight is useless under sand and teleport is too useful to ditch-cursed be GF that made impossible to have both Softboiled and Teleport in the same set. And I didn't want to search again for Pelipper and Moth answers.) Ice Beam to hit Noivern (i don't even know if it kills, or how many hits are needed to kill it, or even if it survives 2 draco/hurricanes but at this point I was too annoyed by life to care); defog because I needed it and guess what, I forgot it (as always); softboiled because survivability is the best thing ever and teleport because momentum is the second best thing ever.

Comment whatever you want (if it's useful), change it however you want, I just want to stop suffering because teambuilding is always hell.
I really want to make Gallade and Darmanitan work.

 

[KaenSoul]

​

We are suspect testing Barraskewda, good luck to everyone who wants to participate!
If you believe a different Pokémon may be problematic, we can still discuss it in this thread.

Since I wasted the last 5 hours at least creating this team and it's still crap since I created it alone, I want to share it with you so you can point at obvious weak points and laugh and maybe change it to make it better.

https://pokepast.es/115492f237e3315c

Teambuilding process and explanation

After playing with random mons that I liked, all in the same team, I was positively impressed by Gallade and Darmanitan.
Gallade's role is to be a wallbreakera and sometimes a cleaner with SSneak.. SD is definitely useful to grab those ohkos; Shadow Sneak is there because it's sadly a slow pokemon for this format. Sadly it's not that powerful; Zen Headbutt and Close Combat are STABs. Headbutt over Psycho Cut because it's stronger, but if you're scared of missing go with the Cut.
Darmanitan is speedy and there are 2 mons that can switch in more than once and not die immediately. Slowbro (that's why I use it) and Toxapex. Bulk up is there because you cause a lot of switches and you can capitalize on them. Flare Blitz is STAB; it hurts you too, but even if Darmanitan dies after reducing the HP of like 3 opposing mons to less than 30% who cares. I had rock slide in third position, i don't even remember why, but I have decided today that Toxapex was not going to be a switching and I changed it to Zen Headbutt. That means that 10% of the time the Pex is a switchin, but whatever. U-Turn, albeit makes you lose 10% life because of Life Orb, is there so you grab momentum and you don't wast Bulk Ups.
Then I started to find my physical wall (I'm a bad teambuilder and player, so I found myself to always go Physical Wall, Special Wall, 4 other mons) and I wanted one that could come in opposing Darmanitans and not lose to mons high in the VR.
Slowbro is perfect. Scald is STAB and is useful, Thunder Wave because Gallade is slow (albeit I'm not sure i can TW on Noivern, which was also one of the reasons I wanted TW), Slack Off for survivability and Teleport because it's really useful to grab momentum.
Tyranitar is the answer to the worse question I had to ask myself. How do I beat Pelipper and Frosmoth? I accidentally found a 2 in 1 answer, but at first I wanted a Thunder lure for Pelipper and a 111 speed+ scarfer for Frosmoth. Well, TTar is faster than Pelipper and survives both Giga Drain and Bug Buzz at full health in sand. SR because everyone needs to make sashes and stury useless and rack up passive random damage. Stone Edge is STAB and destroys Moth. Thunder with 36 spa annihilates Pelipper (because weather shouldn't exist along with TR) and Taunt because it's always useful. I went with a -Spe nature because I wanted to preserve my defence and I still outspeed Pelipper, but that can be changed.
Toxtricity (first time I get the name right from the start; i hate it) is my scarfer. Since I already had a Moth answer, I just needed something that could outspeed stuff and hit it hard. I went with the first mon that had different coverage than the rest of the team, since I already had wasted so many hours at this point. Stab (30% para chance is more useful than Overdrive imho), Stab, strong move that utilizes the ability, momentum.
In his place I had Dragonite at first as speed control (Banded Espeed <3) but I then decided that Dragonite didn't really help me create a good team with Gallade and Darmanitan and I wanted to use them more than it.
Mew is last here. I have tried various Spdef walls but either they didn't work or were Clefable (extremely useful, don't get me wrong, but moonlight is useless under sand and teleport is too useful to ditch-cursed be GF that made impossible to have both Softboiled and Teleport in the same set. And I didn't want to search again for Pelipper and Moth answers.) Ice Beam to hit Noivern (i don't even know if it kills, or how many hits are needed to kill it, or even if it survives 2 draco/hurricanes but at this point I was too annoyed by life to care); defog because I needed it and guess what, I forgot it (as always); softboiled because survivability is the best thing ever and teleport because momentum is the second best thing ever.

Comment whatever you want (if it's useful), change it however you want, I just want to stop suffering because teambuilding is always hell.
I really want to make Gallade and Darmanitan work.

I think the team could improve a lot with a few changes, you didn't do a bad job here. I would give Future sight to Slowbro, it should help Gallade and Darm at breaking, you would have to give up on slack off or TW tho. Maybe replace Ttar with something else as you add up too much passive damage on Gallade and Darm as both are using LO and with Slowbro you should already have an easy time against rain, so there shouldn't be need to lure Peli. But the real problem is Mew, is just too weak for the tier, not bulky enough and hits for no damage, if we remove ttar from the team then clef could take this place as moonlight wouldn't suffer from the weather, maybe Groudon could work instead of ttar to actually strength moonlight and Darm.
That should improve the team, but I could be wrong.

 

[Nub11]

​

We are suspect testing Barraskewda, good luck to everyone who wants to participate!
If you believe a different Pokémon may be problematic, we can still discuss it in this thread.


I think the team could improve a lot with a few changes, you didn't do a bad job here. I would give Future sight to Slowbro, it should help Gallade and Darm at breaking, you would have to give up on slack off or TW tho. Maybe replace Ttar with something else as you add up too much passive damage on Gallade and Darm as both are using LO and with Slowbro you should already have an easy time against rain, so there shouldn't be need to lure Peli. But the real problem is Mew, is just too weak for the tier, not bulky enough and hits for no damage, if we remove ttar from the team then clef could take this place as moonlight wouldn't suffer from the weather, maybe Groudon could work instead of ttar to actually strength moonlight and Darm.
That should improve the team, but I could be wrong.

I'd say run earthquake over bulk up because Darm is DEFINITELY strong enough without it, and Toxapex with think twice before trying to switch intro it

 

[TheBadger_1230]

Since I wasted the last 5 hours at least creating this team and it's still crap since I created it alone, I want to share it with you so you can point at obvious weak points and laugh and maybe change it to make it better.

https://pokepast.es/115492f237e3315c

I really like this core team and I've a played around with it a bit. I've taken the suggestions from KaenSoul and Nub11 and modified it. Feel free to critique and comment on it.
My variation is as follows:

https://pokepast.es/807644f12ac5698a

Gallade: I find it to be a bit slow in this metagame so scarf is nice to out speed more things. I like trick to help against stall and ruin a slowbro that comes in on you.

Darm: In sun it is a nuke, not much else needed to be said.

Slowbro: Helps with wall breaking and general good physical wall. Debating on Slack off and teleport vs thunderwave/toxic. Teleport is nice, but I find myself not clicking as much as I would like.

Groudon: Weather setter and helps darm kill most things. Thunderwave to help with other leads. Toxic is another option. Heatcrash for coverage.

Jolteon: This may be my favorite mon on this team just for the surprise factor, though this post likely takes some of that away lol. Weather ball in sun turns would be checks into fodder. Destroys magnezones/magnetons, excadrills, ferrothorns and other would-be checks. Slightly prediction reliant but could run life-orb to help with that. Massive special attack stat blasts through a lot of different mons, though it is very much a glass cannon. Edit: Also naturally outspeeding Noivern and 2 shotting with thunderbolt is also very nice late game.

Tsareena: Great bulk and able to take a lot of hits. Synthesis in sun is great. Rapid spin for hazard removal. Even without investment this thing still hits very hard. Even max HP and Defense Bold Slowbro is 2 shot by it after leftovers.

 

[ponchlake]

90/100/95/120/95/120
I'm not sure if underrated is the right word for Xatu, but I do think it's a semi-decent sleeper pick. The stats are poor by Re-Evolution standards, but the combination of Magic Guard and Teleport save it. I'm still messing around with it, and it's actually great at denying hazards outright against most hazard setters. Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Necrozma-Dusk Mane (No SD), and Hippowdon are helpless against it since they don't threaten Xatu with any forms of damage or status and can't set up hazards on it. It can also be a good pivot against things like Blissey/Chansey that don't deal too much damage but try to spread status. With that said, I find Xatu a bit difficult to slot onto a team that isn't flat out stall or very fat balance. It does make your opponent think twice when clicking some sort of status move or hazard, but I still think having some form of hazard removal is very necessary. Other than that, I can only really say it's a great defensive stop to Gallade locked into CC or Zen Headbutt. I like the bird and wanted to recreate some of its Gen 5 glory with less than moderate success I'd say. I still kinda like it in incredibly niche MU's though.

 

[quziel]

Yo, writing a post after the kickoff tour and some laddering. Meta's very, very, very focused on Balance vs. Balance matchups, with a bit of Rain, HO, and stall thrown in, and as such, gearing your team to win the long game vs opposing balance and stall is imo the strongest way to play. Gonna lay out a few sets that I feel help in that arena.



Toxtricity @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Sludge Bomb
- Overdrive
- Taunt

This is a mild variation on standard Toxt, but running Taunt last really helps you win vs a lot of fatter builds. Byleth's stall has a noted advantage against it thanks to Palos being immune to your strongest moves, but vs most other fatter builds, being able to Taunt their spdef wall will very often lead to getting a mon, and thus making the game substantially easier to play. Sludge Bomb + Taunt also makes you relatively solid into CM clef, which is sorta nuts.


Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Taunt
- Roost

Speaking of Taunt, builds that spam Taunt are some of my favorites atm. Taunt 2 Attacks Noivern definitely can struggle to make as much progress as it wants, but its a very solid mon atm. Removing the ability for mons like SpDef Corv, Clefable (to a lower extent), Umbreon to check it in the long term is pretty huge, and really ups your offensive potential.


Salazzle (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot / Knock Off
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave

Honest this is just a good mon. Corrosion Toxic is insanely strong in a meta that's as fat as this one, and NP + dual STABs is surprisingly hard to wall, with the only common resists being TTar (no recovery), Garchomp (no recovery), and Toxapex (often drops Scald), letting you fairly efficiently break a lot of teams over the long game. Toxic is also great team support for a ton of other mons, eg Noivern being able to fairly easily break the aforementioned TTar and Toxapex, and Heliolisk loving Ground-types/Tar being put on a timer. Groudon support is great here btw, giving your Fire-type move insane power at +0 lets you change how you play with the mon.

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Wish support is also great atm.


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Teleport
- Protect
- Moonblast

Everyone knows this set, but Wish TP clef gives you a huge advantage over Toxapex, Umbreon, and other fairly passive mons. Every single time Pex comes in, you can use TP to instantly bring in a Lazzle/Toxt and threaten damage against their team. EVs can go either way, but I'm using SpDef here just cause the team I was using it on wanted a strong Noivern check.


Umbreon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell / Toxic

This is another mon that is fairly strong overall. I think most people are pretty familiar with what it does, but being able to provide very sturdy Cleric support and also check a wide variety of mons in the meta is really strong. You're a fairly good bulwark into Garchomp, Noivern, and Polteageist, and the inclusion of a cleric like this can really help to win in a fat vs fat matchup, cause your breakers will inherently have more longevity than theirs. Pair this with Golisopod btw.

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To get away from fat for a second, I've seen a ton of very strong Bisharp based Bulky Offenses, which basically just stack high attack mons and abuse the relatively lacking Dark-resists in the meta atm with an insanely high BP Beat Up. I think rarre was using a SD Beat Up Bisharp build, which really can just KO stuff it has no right to.

I've also seen a ton of builds abusing Magneton to remove Corv (arguably top 1 in the meta, also use Shed Shell, its great) and then force a win vs a lot of Balance builds using Garchomp.

Togekiss is another mon I wanna highlight but don't wanna put an entire section on. Serene Grace Air Slash is sorta insane, and its natural resists and bulk make it really easy to fit on a ton of teams. Mon also has a ton of set diversity, providing optional cleric support, being able to tech to hit just about anything in the meta, and can even be a solid scarfer (arguably best set).

Dragalge, Necro-DM, Kyu-W, Eternatus are all mons that probably need more experimentation.