Reasons to Stay Optimistic About Pokémon

[Magcargo]

If there's one thing the internet LOVES, it's getting angry, and there are few ways this can be seen more clearly than the current attitude towards not just Pokemon, but also towards anyone who likes it. And yet, I genuinely enjoyed both Sword and Brilliant Diamond, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

For me, Pokemon is such a comfy franchise. They're the games I play when I'm feeling overwhelmed and need to relax, and they work for that. They're also incredibly in-depth and complex, and I can play them in a completely different way when I want to engage my brain. The thing is, there are so many ways to play Pokemon. I started with playing casually, just like everyone else; then I got into the battle facilities for a bit, then Nuzlockes, and eventually playing competitively. After that I got really into breeding and RNGing for awhile and started a trade thread here on Smogon (shameless plug), before taking a bit of time off from the series between gens 7 and 8. After a few months of trying to cut Pokemon out of my life completely, though, I realized how much I actually missed it, and that despite everything it still brought me so much joy.

I guess the thing I'm trying to say is that if you've truly grown tired of the franchise, that's totally fine, and you shouldn't pressure yourself to stick around. But if you still like it, you also shouldn't feel pressured to dislike it just because of other people's opinions.

Yeah, I mostly feel the same way. Playing through both Sword and Brilliant Diamond, there were def some low points and issues I had w/ both games (more notable in Brilliant Diamond where the level curve was a bit wack) but I also enjoyed both games a lot and have plenty of memorable moments in both games.

Due to in-game restrictions on 6v6 battling, I decided to give several other formats a try on cartridge, like BSS singles in Sw/Sh and Doubles Battle tower in BDSP. BSS has been pretty fun as a pick-up-and-play format and I've been having a blast climbing the Doubles Battle Tower in BDSP. Doubles is such a rich format which requires more careful planning than standard singles and the AI can actually be fairly unforgiving depending on the scenario. Since the floodgates are open in terms of strategy too, matchups have the potential to be pretty dynamic, so adjustments need to be made on the fly.

I've been enjoying how the new games also can be played in Japanese. I've been trying to learn the language and being able to replay the games in JP is a nice way to change up the pace while also speeding up the learning process.

 

[bdt2002]

Hey guys, I'm back in my own thread. A surefire sign that things aren't looking too good for my interest in the franchise. Enjoy this meme I made that perfectly exemplifies where I'm at right now with this.

The fact of the matter is, I've realized that as a Pokémon fan, I'm never going to get what I want. I know that sounds a bit... harsh, but hear me out. I'm not saying that as in "Oh, I'm always going to complain about stuff" like the Internet is famous for. Nah, nah, nah. I'm saying this moreso along the lines of "Pokémon's material is decent, but there's never going to be that combination of aspects that truly speaks to me". In other words, every Pokémon game has its flaws, and newer games in the future will as well. But at a time like this where it's so hard to truly understand what I want out of Pokémon, the question arises of if I ever be satisfied again with a newer product because everything is so horribly inconsistent right now.

I was hoping that me making this thread to encourage positive discussion would help salvage what little interest I had left, and I appreciate what has come out of this... but at this rate, I've given up hope.

Update: I made another thing for you guys. It's an interest graph. I feel like this didn't fit in any of my other threads, so here you go. By the way, "GS" is meant to be a stand-in for my first and favorite Pokémon game. No prizes for guessing that one.

 

[Codraroll]

This post may be coming a little late, but I realized this morning that there are some quite bright spots amid all the TPC-isms of recent Pokémon games: The franchise has now stuck around for long enough that the people who are making it have grown up with it. Okay, they don't have senior directing roles in the main series or movies yet, but some of the spin-off media is starting to show some real dedication behind it. I would like to mention two pieces of recent-ish media in particular:

New Pokémon Snap
Holy heck, this game blew my socks off. Sure, it's a simple game. But it looks gorgeous and there are so many details and interactions to discover. It showcases Pokémon in their natural environment, interacting with their surroundings and with each other, and it gloriously avoid pandering to the usual limelight figures. The mascot of the game is Meganium, for heck's sake. Sure, it has some Pikachu, but it also has Finneon riding in Pelipper's beaks, Clawitzer scaring off a Qwilfish who intimidates a Luvdisc, Tyrantrum facing off against Archeops, and Kecleon trying to hide from Trevenant - among many other things. No grand "kid saves the world" plot, just a Pokémon safari showing off the series' amazing creature design in a way we haven't seen since the Pikachu shorts that preceded the first few movies. There truly is a lot of passion behind it.

Bidoof's Big Stand
If you haven't seen this short, do so immediately:

This is a passion project. It's good. It's clear that whoever wrote this has spent a lot of time playing Pokémon Platinum. It features a couple of badass fight scenes, HM slavery, Focus Miss (alternately, an Aura Sphere directed to intimidate rather than hurt), two extremely typical playthrough teams facing off against each other, and generally great comedic timing. I wouldn't hesitate to call it the best Pokémon story I have ever seen told through animation. If more like this is in store for the future, Pokémon will be in great hands.

I also have reasons to be gushing about certain aspects of Legends: Arceus, but that'd be quite spoilery so I won't mention it here.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

It says a lot that there are only 9 posts in this thread.

I've just clicked on this thread by accident after avoiding it until now, so maybe I can give a bit of insight. The reason I avoided it: I'm still happy with Pokemon. I do agree that the games are in decline, but I still have enjoyed every main series release so far, and I'm a lot more bothered by the level of vitriol from some of the community than I am by anything in the games. So I don't really need to think about reasons to stay positive. And despite the title of the thread, I suspected that the over-the-top negative discourse that I dislike would show up here too. There are other OI threads that I don't read anymore for the same reason.

My point is just that the activity of this thread might not be all that representative of broader community opinion.

Anyway, to give you something on-topic, my personal "Pokemon journey" has taken a couple of fun turns in the last couple of years:

1) I got kind of into VGC for the first time ever. This happened partly because I've watched a lot of WolfeyVGC in the pandemic, and partly because SWSH made it so much easier to get competitive Pokemon in-game that I was finally actually willing to do it. Turns out VGC is a fun format. I haven't played any kind of Smogon singles in a while now.

2) I'd had vague ideas about making my own fakemon region for a long time. Not only did I finally turn that into something a little more concrete, but I even suddenly got an idea for a second region and now have a bunch of notes on that too. I don't know if I'll ever do anything with these - I certainly don't have the artistic skills to draw the fakemon - but it's a fun little creative project.

 

[PokePoindexter]

If there's one constant when it comes to fans' reactions to Pokemon games, it's that the most polarizing generation at any given time is always the most recent one. You hardly ever hear anyone rag on Ruby/Sapphire these days, but there was a time when people would complain nonstop about the lack of a Time Capsule, that only 67 mons from the first two generations were obtainable in-game, or that you couldn't revisit Kanto or Johto. Gen 5 seems to be a lot of people's favorites now (including mine), but a decade ago, everyone was bitching up a storm about how it had the nerve to include an ice cream Pokemon (to which I reply: still better than Gen 1's penis triplets), or how you couldn't obtain anything from gens 1-4 during the main story (to which I reply: ask me for sympathy once Umbreon becomes less of a headache to use in-game), or how Ghetsis is such a hypocrite (to which I reply: welcome to organized religion). So it wouldn't surprise me if a decade from now we'll all be hearing about how gens 6-8 were the golden era of Pokemon.

My own personal interest has definitely waxed and waned a lot over the years. It's currently off the charts because Legends Arceus is coming out in less than a week (I'm doing my damnedest to avoid spoilers or leaks until I've at least beaten the main story), and I don't really have much else to do at the moment due to Omicron and typical Winter shit impacting the area where I live, but even as recently as eight months ago (when there was no sign of news about the upcoming games and I had just replayed three Pokemon games that I don't really care for that much), I was a bit burned out with the series myself and took a break for about a month or so. And your level of excitement can change on a dime depending on all sorts of circumstances. So it's perfectly reasonable to want to take a break, and there's no shame in doing so.

 

[Ironmage]

I have a request. Tell me why I should be optimistic despite Legends. Because right now, I don't like the direction the series seems to be headed in.

I don't care for exploring a generic natural setting. The few interesting changes to the battle system seem held back by how much it emphasizes the trainer just rolling around and throwing things. My most valued part of a pokemon game, the battle facilities, is basically nonexistant. Put bluntly, I don't want Legends to continue to overshadow the traditional games in terms of development resources but it seems like that is the most likely outcome.

 

[BlizzardHero]

I have a request. Tell me why I should be optimistic despite Legends. Because right now, I don't like the direction the series seems to be headed in.

I don't care for exploring a generic natural setting. The few interesting changes to the battle system seem held back by how much it emphasizes the trainer just rolling around and throwing things. My most valued part of a pokemon game, the battle facilities, is basically nonexistant. Put bluntly, I don't want Legends to continue to overshadow the traditional games in terms of development resources but it seems like that is the most likely outcome.

I think if you approach Legends as a mainline game, or as a model for mainline cycles going forward, I think that viewpoint would certainly be valid. However, I think it's a bit more prudent to treat Legends as a one-off side game - at least until more information for future games is revealed.

You have to consider that for TPC has been suffocating high-budget side games for a while. During the Gen 3 to late Gen 5 era, there was a glut of fairly good side-games being released. Pokemon XD/Colosseum, and to a lesser extent Battle Revolution, focused hard on developing battle visuals while experimenting with different mechanics and story. The Pokemon Ranger series focused almost entirely on the catching aspect of Pokemon (much like Legends). Pokemon Conquest was amazing cool, even if it was short-lived. Perhaps the most enduring of these major side games was the Mystery Dungeon series, which was a story-based dungeon crawler. All this even ignores the higher-budget/small games, such as PokePark and Rumble. Each of these games played to different aspects of the mainline games. While GF did not directly develop most of these, they did eat up some of GF's time and resources in managing them - with the sheer number compounding this resource draw.

However, the Gen 6+ era saw a sharp decline in these high-budget spin-offs with a major focus on cheaper minigames and mobile freemium games. Pokemon Shuffle was... a thing that I think I played once and deleted? Pokemon Go still limps along after its initial success, though we all know it's basically a tool to mine your location data to sell. Masters is... a thing that I've never played? Pokemon Unite is freemium, p2w garbage. A few other minor minigames were released that I never even looked at and can't comment on. The only major, high-budget spinoff to be released was Pokken in 2015, with an enhanced version in 2017 (LGPE is somewhere between a spin-off an a remake, make of that what you will). All of this is to say that the past ~6 years of spin-offs has been a mess - some good, some okay, some quite mediocre. Of course, people can definitely disagree about this extent, but even that disagreement is indicative of the status.

It's possible that Legends is a return to form for Pokemon spin-offs - high budget with lots of experimentation. The narrative is not like the past 6 years of spin-offs (IE nonexistent), and more like the spin-offs of yesteryear with a complex-ish storyline. New mechanics keep some ideas from the mainline games, but focus heavily on catching. In fact, boiled down to those basics, it's a lot like Pokemon Ranger in many of its aspects.

It's just as possible however that this might not be a spin-off, and could signify a shift in game design for the mainline games. Or that Legends is not a one-off, and that at least one new game every generational cycle will be a major spin-off. We've already had this happen at least once - LGPE was sorta in the Gen 7 development cycle, which could count as their significant spin-off title.

The problem with these kinds of statements is that, frankly, we don't have enough information. No one here can predict the future, unless they're in GF's staff and know what their plans/future dev cycle is going to be. Nor is there enough data yet to suggest a trend. This does not however discount your feelings - if you don't feel like these games are for you, then that's perfectly alright. If you feel like the diversion is impacting their development abilities, then don't feel compelled to buy their games. Brand loyalty is the dumbest scam ever created.

Tldr; Life is short, go make pancakes. The rewards of patience are generally the best.

 

[bdt2002]

I think if you approach Legends as a mainline game, or as a model for mainline cycles going forward, I think that viewpoint would certainly be valid. However, I think it's a bit more prudent to treat Legends as a one-off side game - at least until more information for future games is revealed.

You have to consider that for TPC has been suffocating high-budget side games for a while. During the Gen 3 to late Gen 5 era, there was a glut of fairly good side-games being released. Pokemon XD/Colosseum, and to a lesser extent Battle Revolution, focused hard on developing battle visuals while experimenting with different mechanics and story. The Pokemon Ranger series focused almost entirely on the catching aspect of Pokemon (much like Legends). Pokemon Conquest was amazing cool, even if it was short-lived. Perhaps the most enduring of these major side games was the Mystery Dungeon series, which was a story-based dungeon crawler. All this even ignores the higher-budget/small games, such as PokePark and Rumble. Each of these games played to different aspects of the mainline games. While GF did not directly develop most of these, they did eat up some of GF's time and resources in managing them - with the sheer number compounding this resource draw.

However, the Gen 6+ era saw a sharp decline in these high-budget spin-offs with a major focus on cheaper minigames and mobile freemium games. Pokemon Shuffle was... a thing that I think I played once and deleted? Pokemon Go still limps along after its initial success, though we all know it's basically a tool to mine your location data to sell. Masters is... a thing that I've never played? Pokemon Unite is freemium, p2w garbage. A few other minor minigames were released that I never even looked at and can't comment on. The only major, high-budget spinoff to be released was Pokken in 2015, with an enhanced version in 2017 (LGPE is somewhere between a spin-off an a remake, make of that what you will). All of this is to say that the past ~6 years of spin-offs has been a mess - some good, some okay, some quite mediocre. Of course, people can definitely disagree about this extent, but even that disagreement is indicative of the status.

It's possible that Legends is a return to form for Pokemon spin-offs - high budget with lots of experimentation. The narrative is not like the past 6 years of spin-offs (IE nonexistent), and more like the spin-offs of yesteryear with a complex-ish storyline. New mechanics keep some ideas from the mainline games, but focus heavily on catching. In fact, boiled down to those basics, it's a lot like Pokemon Ranger in many of its aspects.

It's just as possible however that this might not be a spin-off, and could signify a shift in game design for the mainline games. Or that Legends is not a one-off, and that at least one new game every generational cycle will be a major spin-off. We've already had this happen at least once - LGPE was sorta in the Gen 7 development cycle, which could count as their significant spin-off title.

The problem with these kinds of statements is that, frankly, we don't have enough information. No one here can predict the future, unless they're in GF's staff and know what their plans/future dev cycle is going to be. Nor is there enough data yet to suggest a trend. This does not however discount your feelings - if you don't feel like these games are for you, then that's perfectly alright. If you feel like the diversion is impacting their development abilities, then don't feel compelled to buy their games. Brand loyalty is the dumbest scam ever created.

Tldr; Life is short, go make pancakes. The rewards of patience are generally the best.

While I agree with you on most of what you're saying here, I think the issue isn't that we aren't seeing a big variety of Pokémon games anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely an underlying issue, but as far as the main series is concerned, I think that this is what can happen when a franchise becomes too big for its own good. Pokémon's become a cultural juggernaut again, in some ways rivaling the popularity spikes we've seen in the late '90s and again in the second half of the 2000s. The difference nowadays is that the Internet has become not only much more mainstream, but also our main way of communication and presenting information about new products. As a result of this, older fans are able to be much more vocal about their complaints than in the past. The fact that Pokémon puts so much emphasis on the main series games and is putting so little emphasis on the lesser-performing spin-offs is a sign of the times we live in, an era where as Pokémon continues to grow, it becomes harder and harder to please everyone.

 

[Siggu]

I have a request. Tell me why I should be optimistic despite Legends. Because right now, I don't like the direction the series seems to be headed in.

I don't care for exploring a generic natural setting. The few interesting changes to the battle system seem held back by how much it emphasizes the trainer just rolling around and throwing things. My most valued part of a pokemon game, the battle facilities, is basically nonexistant. Put bluntly, I don't want Legends to continue to overshadow the traditional games in terms of development resources but it seems like that is the most likely outcome.

Yes, I'm starting to get worried especially as it's getting better initial sales than BW1 (sure, BW1 didn't sell as expected, but it's still too much to my hopes).

Legends is an amalgamation of things I've disliked from other games, so I can't just look at it with even remotely tolerant eyes. Not to mention we went for a post-game where you could choose between PvP and Pokédex Completion (and later games added more options), to a post-game where, if you don't want to keep filling the Pokédex, the game is completely over.

If it had been tagged as a simple spin-off, I'd have gladly ignored it like Snap. But it's not the case, so I can't. To me, Legends has the chance of becoming the Pokémon equivalent of Need for Speed Underground - a game that spits on the series' strengths and its loyal fans to chase a trend, that sells well and could deal irreparable damage to the franchise.

 

[Magcargo]

I think if you approach Legends as a mainline game, or as a model for mainline cycles going forward, I think that viewpoint would certainly be valid. However, I think it's a bit more prudent to treat Legends as a one-off side game - at least until more information for future games is revealed.

You have to consider that for TPC has been suffocating high-budget side games for a while. During the Gen 3 to late Gen 5 era, there was a glut of fairly good side-games being released. Pokemon XD/Colosseum, and to a lesser extent Battle Revolution, focused hard on developing battle visuals while experimenting with different mechanics and story. The Pokemon Ranger series focused almost entirely on the catching aspect of Pokemon (much like Legends). Pokemon Conquest was amazing cool, even if it was short-lived. Perhaps the most enduring of these major side games was the Mystery Dungeon series, which was a story-based dungeon crawler. All this even ignores the higher-budget/small games, such as PokePark and Rumble. Each of these games played to different aspects of the mainline games. While GF did not directly develop most of these, they did eat up some of GF's time and resources in managing them - with the sheer number compounding this resource draw.

However, the Gen 6+ era saw a sharp decline in these high-budget spin-offs with a major focus on cheaper minigames and mobile freemium games. Pokemon Shuffle was... a thing that I think I played once and deleted? Pokemon Go still limps along after its initial success, though we all know it's basically a tool to mine your location data to sell. Masters is... a thing that I've never played? Pokemon Unite is freemium, p2w garbage. A few other minor minigames were released that I never even looked at and can't comment on. The only major, high-budget spinoff to be released was Pokken in 2015, with an enhanced version in 2017 (LGPE is somewhere between a spin-off an a remake, make of that what you will). All of this is to say that the past ~6 years of spin-offs has been a mess - some good, some okay, some quite mediocre. Of course, people can definitely disagree about this extent, but even that disagreement is indicative of the status.

It's possible that Legends is a return to form for Pokemon spin-offs - high budget with lots of experimentation. The narrative is not like the past 6 years of spin-offs (IE nonexistent), and more like the spin-offs of yesteryear with a complex-ish storyline. New mechanics keep some ideas from the mainline games, but focus heavily on catching. In fact, boiled down to those basics, it's a lot like Pokemon Ranger in many of its aspects.

It's just as possible however that this might not be a spin-off, and could signify a shift in game design for the mainline games. Or that Legends is not a one-off, and that at least one new game every generational cycle will be a major spin-off. We've already had this happen at least once - LGPE was sorta in the Gen 7 development cycle, which could count as their significant spin-off title.

The problem with these kinds of statements is that, frankly, we don't have enough information. No one here can predict the future, unless they're in GF's staff and know what their plans/future dev cycle is going to be. Nor is there enough data yet to suggest a trend. This does not however discount your feelings - if you don't feel like these games are for you, then that's perfectly alright. If you feel like the diversion is impacting their development abilities, then don't feel compelled to buy their games. Brand loyalty is the dumbest scam ever created.

Tldr; Life is short, go make pancakes. The rewards of patience are generally the best.

I don't think the lack of side games necessarily exclusive to Pokemon but just a general industry trend. I'd say a similar thing happened to Star Wars. Back when the prequels were coming out, there were a ton of games coming out for multiple different systems that were completely different genres. There was Star Wars Battlefront I & II, Battle for Naboo, The New Droid Factory, Bounty Hunter, Apprentice of the Force, Obi-Wan, multiple movie & show tie-in games, etc. etc. However, for the Sequel Trilogy, barely any tie in games were released, outside of Battlefront, Jedi Fallen Order, and a few mobile games.

 

[Ema Skye]

Change is hard.

I am a staunch advocate of more games in the Legends style, because I was feeling like the series was doing the same minimal effort, cookie cutter and linear games for years, which I found very boring. Legends, to me, is the Pokémon game I didn’t know I wanted, because I’ve been completely indifferent to games like Skyrim and BotW. I’ve also been playing Pokémon for almost 20 years and this series feels part of my DNA.

I have optimism for the first time in nearly a decade for the series because I finally see a series trying to grow, instead of trying to remain the same. It’s also completely changed how I view the games. In all my years of playing Pokémon, I have never completed a dex and found catching Pokémon tedious. I really only cared for the battles. Legends helped me realize that catching Pokémon can be fun (there is no greater enjoyment than sneaking up on some overlevelled Alpha to catch it without triggering a battle), and I actually want to try and complete the dex. The new battle system takes a bit to learn as it’s a heavy overhaul, but when it clicks, it opens up a lot of strategic potential.

My optimism in the series will die of Legends is a one-off, and I know I’m not alone in this.

 

[Siggu]

6.5 million.

I can't believe my worst fears the announcement trailer of Legends gave me are happening.

There has to be a trailing zero in that number.

 

[DreamPrince]

6.5 million.

I can't believe my worst fears the announcement trailer of Legends gave me are happening.

There has to be a trailing zero in that number.

6.5 Million what?

 

[Siggu]

6.5 Million what?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489420296415322115

 

[DreamPrince]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489420296415322115

What's wrong/surprising about that? Most Pokémon games sell like hotcakes immediately after launch. I really enjoyed Legnds so I'm very happy.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Personally, I don't think Legends will be a one-off thing, nor do I think it will permanently replace traditional mainline games going forward. In other words, I don't think Sword and Shield will be the last traditional mainline entry, and I don't think Legends: Arceus will be the only game of its kind.

That being said, it's impossible to predict what will happen in the future, as GF has a strong belief in being unpredictable and throwing surprise bones on a whim depending on whatever project they feel like. But that being said, while it's true that Legends: Arceus is a mainline title, and they've made it emphatically clear that it is one, as even on Twitter they grouped it alongside the other mainline games in the series thus making it clear it's a core title, I do not think it will be indicative of every mainline title going forward. Rather, if we want an idea of what the mainline games could be like going forward, it's better to look at Gen 8 as a whole, collectively speaking, or better yet, the collection of Switch mainline games that have been released thus far including Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, which is also mainline, rather than any individual game as an indicator of what mainline games will be like moving forward.

What I'm trying to say is that the Switch games collectively speaking are indicative of a very different direction from the Pokemon games on previous platforms. There is no case where every single mainline game on the platform is the premier, traditional mainline experience that is intended as the main game for the year, the main competitive hub, and whatnot. This isn't like the GB games where RB, Yellow, GS, and Crystal were all following the same formula, or with the DS games with DP, Platinum, HGSS all being the "main" Pokemon game in succession one after the other, with each one replacing the previous as the main VGC hub and features carry over from one game to the other, likewise with BW1 and BW2. Or the 3DS like XY and ORAS, where ORAS replaced XY as the main competitive hub, and how USUM replaced SM and vice versa. In each of those cases, with each game within the generation, features carried over from one game to the next, and they were all part of a collective "generation" sharing features.

With the Switch games, however, every game is vastly different. We have four different mainline titles on the platform, but overlap is minimal at best, and the only two games that could be argued to be stylistically similar and have overlap of some features in the vein of say, RSE and FRLG, DPP and HGSS, or XY and ORAS, or BW and BW2, or SM and USUM, or GS and Crystal, or RB and Yellow, and whatnot, are Sword and Shield and Legends: Arceus, but even then SwSh has multiplayer, Legends does not. Going down the list, we have all of the following:

- Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, a Pokemon GO oriented style game with a lot of distinct features unique to itself. Note that not much of it carried over to the traditional mainline game that followed.
- Sword and Shield, the first and so far only "traditional" mainline game on the Switch, even if it clearly was experimenting with ideas for Legends. It follows traditional Pokemon gameplay that has persisted on the vast majority of mainline titles and is the main competitive hub for VGC and Battle Stadium, and uniquely unlike with past games, does not get replaced by the remakes/upper versions of the generation as the competitive hub for the generation: for Gen 8 thus far, Sword and Shield remains the main competitive hub.
- Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl, a minor-scope remake of Diamond and Pearl that has no connection to any of the other Switch games thus far.
- Legends: Arceus, an experimental mainline title that deviates from traditional gameplay elements and does a lot of bold experimentation for the franchise's gameplay and structure, all the while still staying true to what makes mainline Pokemon, well Pokemon at its core.

Now I'm not saying we will get exact games like this each and every generation, but what I am saying is that future generations of Pokemon may have a wider variety of mainline titles that each do their own thing, and each generation I imagine will have at least one "traditional" mainline title that follows traditional gameplay, with the traditional 8 Gyms, League, and Champion structure, has a battle facility, and multiplayer/VGC, and serves as the main competitive/multiplayer hub of the generation. After all, that will definitely be necessary each generation: competitive Pokemon isn't going away anytime soon. Now granted, the base Gen 9 games will probably adopt some elements from PLA, just as Sword and Shield still took some elements from LGPE despite returning to a traditional mainline experience, and some of the changes PLA made to the gameplay will probably carry over, but the base Gen 9 games will probably still be more traditional like Sword and Shield, and will have multiplayer, battle facilities, VGC, and whatnot, and then we will see some experimental titles like Legends: Arceus and Let's Go both were: perhaps toying with new ideas and deviating from tradition and serving as stronger single player experiences while the base games of the generation remain the multiplayer/competitive format for the entire generation. What I'm saying is that not every single game will be Legends: Arceus to the exact T, but experimental titles that serve as the second/third games of a generation will probably happen while the base games of the gen could be more of a standard Pokemon experience.

I also don't think Legends will be one-off, and I do think some aspects may carry over to the base Gen 9 games, but as a whole Legends could create its own subseries within the core series, same with Let's Go. We could see a Let's Go Johto game later on down the line, but we could also see Legends style games for Unova, Kalos, and Alola showing up as time goes on, with the Legends-unique mechanics showing up in experimental titles. I don't think any singular title is indicative of what future mainline games will be like: if anything, this suggests that mainline games will individually take a variety of different directions: we could have GO-like games like LGPE, traditional games like Sword and Shield, and the Legends: Arceus styled games and whatnot all as individual entries in a generation.

 

[disillusionedvisionary]

NGL this is pretty bleak. I mean to me the whole point of Pokémon was to do the impossible! Every Pokémon has to eventually be available in every generation! Mega Pokémon have to stay! They’re so ducking cool! (My heart goes out the Pokémon like Lopunny, Mawile and Sableye in particular) My fav Pokémon is Primal Groudon but my fav species is Ho-oh! I always fantasise about a Pure Gold Mega? Ho-oh! That has the fire/water pledge psuedo serene grace effect so he can fire off (no pun intended) 100% burn Sacred Fire (too op?!) and even 60 % acc air slash thanks to all the teaching possibilities of swsh. 106/170/110/130/154/110 (probs broken AF but I gone be biased and ting XD) the other idea was magic guard (suits thematically enough) so he can take off them boots and spam frickin’ no drawback dual 120 physical Stabs whilst simultaneously not giving a flying fuck (again no pun intended) about ninja stones :D

 

[PokePoindexter]

NGL this is pretty bleak. I mean to me the whole point of Pokémon was to do the impossible! Every Pokémon has to eventually be available in every generation! Mega Pokémon have to stay! They’re so ducking cool! (My heart goes out the Pokémon like Lopunny, Mawile and Sableye in particular)

Just think of the lack of Megas in SwSh as Gen 6 maintaining whatever incentive there might be to revisit it. Plus, considering that SwSh are the only Switch games that support ranked battles and are still getting various minor changes from time to time (e.g. Max Raid events), you can probably assume GF hasn't pulled the plug on those games just yet and there's still potential for them to reintroduce the remaining Pokemon. Give it time.

Anyway, back on topic, everyone's high on Legends Arceus right now because it's a new alternative style that main series Pokemon has never tried before (and a style of game whose popularity in general has skyrocketed in recent years at that). It's obviously aimed for certain fans more than others (e.g. if you primarily play Pokemon for competitive battling, you're going to be disappointed). So I can see it forming its own separate series, like how MegaMan X formed its own subset of MegaMan games, but I don't see it outright replacing the original format.

 

[disillusionedvisionary]

Yh what you said was what I’m hoping for; Gen 8 still isn’t over. I know but I’m just worried they’ll screw if up. Yeah Arceus didn’t really annoy me as I just kinda saw it like a side game/kinda spin off , just not for me. I’d love to use some of the new Pokémon in the main games, I mean we actually have a frickin normal/ghost now! Dragon/Steel Goodra and one of my fav pokes (Qwilfish) finally gets an evo!

 

[pokemon4eva]

Ok now that I almost finished the game I can safely say Legends Arceus itself is a good reason to stay optimistic, it lived up to the hype!

Finally, a main Pokemon game on the Switch I can say it's good! Not first in a decade, since I loved ORAS, SM/USUM, but the Switch has never delivered anything hopeful up until Legends imo, even SWSH which I put in hundreds of hours, I cannot recommend this to other people over better games. I'd say the only 'not-hopeful' part is that this game really didn't need to come out this soon, literally TWO MONTHS after BDSP; it could've come much later this year in order to polish some aspects. Hopefully they'll take their sweet time for Gen 9...

 

[Siggu]

Hide

So... is there any reason left to stay optimistic? Can I hope it was at least a translation mistake?

Or should I give up entirely?

 

[Ironmage]

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View attachment 409742

So... is there any reason left to stay optimistic? Can I hope it was at least a translation mistake?

Or should I give up entirely?

I think, at least, it's worth continuing to follow the news on it. It's not usually much commitment, and there's a small chance it will still be a good mainline pokemon game regardless (which, I will reiterate, is not necessarily the same thing as being a good game in general). In my case, while they've tried to answer whether poeple can spend a hundred hours in a massive expanse, I'm going to continue to ask whether I can spend a hundred hours in a single small room.

This is, admittedly, not saying you should be expecting it to be what you're looking for. Examining alternatives is also something I would recommend, even if I've so far failed to find ones I'm super interested in.

 

[Samtendo09]

With all the talk of Dexit, it’s not worth trying to stay optimistic. In fact this thread should be locked due to Dexit reasons

Not because of a lack of well done concepts. PL:A is well loved among audiences, but it also have a few share of detractors. In fact, I’m very happy with how well PL:A did!

The problem is that people are willing to use Dexit as an excuse to be even more complacent and only uses their favorite, never trying anything new. It’s okay to use favorites, but I know that I don’t want to be too attached with my Pokémon, because I know I can’t bring them further generations forever.

It’s obviously GF’s and TPC’s faults to not make HOME an affordable so the concerns of losing their Pokëmon forever is understandable. But then we might reach a point where fans will start hating on fanmade projects that don’t have all existing Pokémon coded in a game, already power crept balance be damned.

 

[BlizzardHero]

With all the talk of Dexit, it’s not worth trying to stay optimistic. In fact this thread should be locked due to Dexit reasons

Hey dude, I think you need to chill out. Discussions are often prone to becoming heated - mistakes are made and people say things they shouldn't or less eloquently than they should have. These things happen and so it's important to be understanding and respectful.

I know how it feels to be passionate about something, and to have others disagree with things I feel passionate about. Maintaining control over my actions and feelings is something I struggle with all the time - and something that I'll probably never fully resolve. Just know that, in the end, everything is going to be alright.

 

[Magcargo]

With all the talk of Dexit, it’s not worth trying to stay optimistic. In fact this thread should be locked due to Dexit reasons

Not because of a lack of well done concepts. PL:A is well loved among audiences, but it also have a few share of detractors. In fact, I’m very happy with how well PL:A did!

The problem is that people are willing to use Dexit as an excuse to be even more complacent and only uses their favorite, never trying anything new. It’s okay to use favorites, but I know that I don’t want to be too attached with my Pokémon, because I know I can’t bring them further generations forever.

It’s obviously GF’s and TPC’s faults to not make HOME an affordable so the concerns of losing their Pokëmon forever is understandable. But then we might reach a point where fans will start hating on fanmade projects that don’t have all existing Pokémon coded in a game, already power crept balance be damned.

I don't think people complaining about Dexit really care about using their favorites in the main game. its more of a post-game / second-playthrough thing.

When XY and SM came out, using Pokemon outside the ones available in the main game was basically impossible since bank transfer wasn't initially available. As such, they had to make use of new Pokemon native to the games they were playing. Bank transfer / trading is nice when doing a second playthough since you can use cool mons that you don't usually have access too in main game, For my second playthough of ORAS, I used a shiny Honedge and Rotom that I got from a giveaway here on Smogon and it was a blast. In HGSS, I would often trade / hack Pokemon like Elekid, Rhyhorn, and Magby in the game so I could se them for the entire playthrough and that was also fun.

That being said, with Sword and Shield released, using any Pokemon you want is extremely easy due to the way the wild area & raids works As such, external stuff like a second console or breeding to get a specific mon in a different game and transfering it to Bank / Home isn't really required.

For post-game though, not getting to use some of my favorites from past-games, like Eelektross, Crabobinable, and Gliscor is a huge bummer. Some days, I wanna mess around with them in the league / battle tower, but I can't and it sucks. Same applies to some of my favorite Mega Evolutions like Mega Scizor. Another gripe I have is that Pokemon like Scizor and Zeraora still need to be transferred from another game in order to have access to their best moves like Toxic, Knock Off, and Roost & aren't able to remember these moves if you forget them. Same principle applies to BDSP, where Zapdos is kinda garbage since it doesn't have Hurricane (except in the Battle Tower since those guys are cheaters).