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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

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Hey guys what if in Gen VI +spe weather abilities only were x1.5 rather than x2

While we're at it lets give solar power x1.5 Atk and SpA to make it a bit less shit

Give Hail 1.5x Def for Ice Types, Fighting types now immune to hail

Give Hail a +Spe ability

Cloud 9 removes on weathers for real, larger distribution, one of which is on a Pseudolegend or something to make sure it's worth it

A move that removes weather from the field as a TM

An ability on a Pokemon with in the base 65-70 speed range but 1.5x speed in neutral weather

Fund it
 
There is a game mechanic that has bothered me for some time - critical hits ignore Def/SpD boosts. I used to play stall a lot more, and I can't tell you how many times I lost because an opposing sweeper got a critical hit. If this mechanic was removed, it would make defensive teams a lot more viable.

EDIT: Also moar Cloud Nine.

EDIT AGAIN: Dunsparce evolution plz?
 
Maybe... but I feel like there should be a way to deal with bulky set-up sweepers that doesn't rely on hax.

EDIT: It would be great to see more viable OU pokes with Haze.
 
I want something like this:

Water + Flying
~580 BST (115+ speed, 100+ SpA)
~Serene Grace
~Hurricane
~Scald
~Quiver Dance
~Roost

Who's with me????
 
Ah, is that Raindorus' Butterfly shaped Therian forme? Though it needs a 20 higher BST to fit in.
In terms of what I actually want, I'd like it if the next gen brought bulky offensive mons to the forefront. Super glass cannons with 130 Speed using Scarves to land the OHKO on each other are just as boring as mega defensive behemoths that are incapable of outdamaging each other's Leftovers recovery and a metagame were the only option is pokemon of those two extremes doesn't sound much better. To be honest, I kinda liked the idea suggested earlier that the damage formula is tweaked to lower all damage.
 
There is a game mechanic that has bothered me for some time - critical hits ignore Def/SpD boosts. I used to play stall a lot more, and I can't tell you how many times I lost because an opposing sweeper got a critical hit. If this mechanic was removed, it would make defensive teams a lot more viable.

EDIT: Also moar Cloud Nine.

EDIT AGAIN: Dunsparce evolution plz?
Honestly , if they're going to look at critical hits at all, I'd rather see them reduce the crit damage modifier from 2x damage to 1.5x damage.
 
Hey guys what if in Gen VI +spe weather abilities only were x1.5 rather than x2

LOL I've been hoping this would happen. Would certainly bring Excadrill and Drizzle down a notch.

While we're at it lets give solar power x1.5 Atk and SpA to make it a bit less shit

Solar Power I didn't think of that, but it seems cool.

Give Hail 1.5x Def for Ice Types, Fighting types now immune to hail

Give Hail a +Spe ability

Hail really needs a boost. Also, Steel-type should be immune too. (Maybe)

Cloud 9 removes on weathers for real, larger distribution, one of which is on a Pseudolegend or something to make sure it's worth it

This too.

A move that removes weather from the field as a TM

Defog buff maybe?

An ability on a Pokemon with in the base 65-70 speed range but 1.5x speed in neutral weather

...okay, this one sorta came out of left field for me. But it works.

Fund it

Link to Kickstarter page plz.

Comments in bold.
 
Reading the title of this thread, "Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI", it made me think of something. It's more about Smogon than Game Freak really.

But I remember at the beginning of Gen V there was a brief period where it was quite chaotic and unorganized, and there was a lot of heavy debate. The reason being because we were about to play a new generation, and we didn't have a ban list. Most people fell into two main camps:

- Start off with everything unbanned, and see where it goes from there. If we're lucky maybe nothing will need to be banned. We can do quick-bans at the beginning.

- Start off with an Ubers ban-list. It's obvious X, Y and Z will be broken, let's ban them straight away. I don't want to have to wait 6 months to get a stable OU metagame, I don't want to play initial OU with Darkrai and Rayquaza in it.

This was a source of heated debate just as we were starting Gen V. I think it would be good if we could make a decision on what we'll do before the next generation begins.

My personal opinion is that we should begin with no ban-list for OU next time. Even just for a period of a couple of weeks, because it's scary to me looking back that some Pokemon like Mew were being considered for the initial Ubers ban-list. It would be a shame to make a mistake right at the beginning of next generation because we theorymon'd wrong.

I'm not really THAT concerned what the community chooses to do though, but my main point is that I think it would be a good idea to make a decision more in advance this time.
 
Give me the new Blissey, the new Skarmory. A bunch of strong bulk to get us back to a more balanced metagame.
Hoping for an even stronger Skarm/Bliss combo (I WANT MORE EVOLUTIONS!)
A Skarmory evolution with OU stats (I mean, he is good, but like Breloom he has low total base stats for OU). Something like 540 seems to be funny, especially giving it more life and a little bit more attack.
A Blissey evolution would be so cool though... I remember having think about a Ghost-Normal evolution (go to hell damn fight-type :D Even if now it would be the dark type), with obviously 5 (or 15 please) defense, HP, SpD and SpA more. :P
And Blissey would take Eviolite.

Eviolite Skarmory is going to be hilariously fun.
Was thinking about that a few months ago with friends, even if it's not an absolute wall if you do the calc. (Rain-boosted water/not rain-destruct fire/electric are all common)
It would be a little bit like Eviolite Chansey.

Air Lock -> Prevents the weather from being changed, opponent cannot benefit from the current weather (i.e. a "master of the skies" ability)
Would be cool to have this little up for the ability and to have more competitive pokemon with it. (So the wheather will not be so used)
[Later]Hey, and why not a newer ability which would nullify the wheather ?

Water/Bug - A viable one, not surskit! compound eyes hydro pump - hnnnnnnng
Totally agree

A new way of removing entry hazards would be appreciated.
I would like personally to don't see anymore spinblock but it's maybe too much (Miltank spinner :D:D). Having the entry hazard removed when your Foretress die by rapid spinning on a Ferrothorn would be at least cool. (I forgot which, but I think there is another case were the entry hazard should be removed)(Or it's PO/Showdown bug)
[Later]Reading the subject I have seen a certain number of people speaking about an effect move that would not attack (so be tauntable) but so would not be spinblockable. (The only perfect spinblocker will be Sableye) Wasn't thinking in this way first, but it would be so good.

I am literally praying for a BULKY FIRE TYPE WITH RELIABLE RECOVERY. Like, I want a pokemon like this so bad that it isn't even funny.
An evolve to Torkoal with recover ? Giving it seriously more HP, a little better SpD and a/spa could make something not bad.

I would also love pokemon with more balanced stats and possibly a fire type entry hazard
No more entry hazard !

Undoing the sleep mechanic changes.
Buffing Will-O-Wisp accuracy.
Reducing Scald burn chance.
Agree, especially for the first point. Now, a pokemon who sleep (from an opponent move) is nearly a dead pokemon. You can use it in some case, but it is also a free set-up in other.

A skamory evolution? Really guys? Skarmory is a good enough wall. Why are you people, so obsessed with stall walling everything to death? Believe it or not, stall turns away a shitload of new and aspiring players.

Skarmory with eviolite...just wow. Now the thing will be damn near impossible to kill phsyically and specially. 70 base defese boosted with evioloite and EV investments is a lot of special defense. Oh god. Please. NO.
Have you just made the calc before writing ? It would be 2HKO (or even OHKO on the special side with STAB move) by an important number of pokemon and cannot threat a lot of poke with its attack. It would be powerful, it would have the advantage of not being setup free thanks to whirlwind and could be a spike abuser, but it would probably not be broken. He will especially be always. totally destroyed by magnezone, and with eviolite no more possible shed shell.

Also, sandstorm gives rock types a special defense boost, why doesn't hail give ice types a defense boost
Agree, it would and up the hail and up the ice type, without complicate things. Even with this it will still not easy with SR.

A couple more magic bouncers is cool.
Please no.

BW without team preview could be horrible, but by other hand, it's not a good answer... "hey, I'm a horrible metagame, let's do something that broke part of what Pokémon is for fixing it at some degree", so, I could love to see team preview out from the game, and balance somewhat more the metagame.
I have the same opinion.

I was wondering if GameFreak or Nintendo has ever acknowledged the presence of competitive pokemon tiers or/and Smogon. So when they design the new Pokemon, are they actually conscious of the metagame, and take decisions accordingly? To put it in another way, would they actually want to benefit stall and reduce offense? Or let's say nerf Rain or boost Ice-types?
That is the question. :D

I hope no one mentioned this yet, but aren't Skarmory and Mantine linked together? Mantine evolves from the baby pokemon, Mantyke, so I think a baby form of Skarmory would be fair. I'm sure an eviolite-equipped baby Skarmory would still suck to face.
Yes, they're linked. But they just fail for Mantine with it's awful typing for a special wall. And no reliable recovery.
Honestly , if they're going to look at critical hits at all, I'd rather see them reduce the crit damage modifier from 2x damage to 1.5x damage.
Just a so good idea. Ignoring the modifiers is extremely powerfull too, but this would lesser a little the luck impact.


A thing about I think a lot is that with all the pokemon we have now, the pokemon that could be boosted, the new 6G pokemon with probably new typing (someone speak about a ghost-steel, which is juste psy-steel with immunity to fighting, double-resist to bug instead of neutral, normal immunity, a better stab, all this against a psy-resistance instead of an immunity), or we will have broken pokemon, or we will just be unable to check correctly all pokemon enough powerful to be played in a competitive team.
Why not a 8-pokemon team ? With more way to deal with the pokemon which boost themselves. I think it really could be interesting, even if I think it would not be the case.
 
At this point, I would actually be willing to start with a no ban list metagame, as long as its agreed that bans will be dealt out at the beginning swiftly and quickly. Stuff like Darkia, Skymin, Arcues, Kyorge, Groudon, and Mewtwo have no place in a balanced metagame like what OU should be like. I say this because a lot of the current ubers like giratina and lugia are solid defensive walls that honestly I would have no problem placing in OU, especially if game freak decides to boost offense even more.
 
I know most people want the Psychic->Fighting->Dark trio with the new starters, but I'm actually much more interested in Fennekin being a Fire/Ground type. I mean, a Stealth Rock neutral Fire type sounds fantastic to me. If rain got a need and we got a speedy special attacking Fire/Ground type with Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Energy Ball (maybe with Sheer Force as a hidden ability?) it would be a fantastic addition to the OU metagame to help clear the battlefield of all Steels so that Dragons can sweep. Maybe it's just because I'm a sucker for Fire types, and I want them to be more viable in OU, but I'm really hoping that is the case for Fennekin. Although, even if she's Fire/Psychic, I will love that little fox forever. SUH CUTE.


I posted this in the other thread in the Orange Islands forum but on second thought it kinda belongs here more.

Anyway, regarding a ban list, I became a part of the competitive scene at the beginning of BW and remember reading the heated debates about what should be banned. I used to be very strict when it came to bans. Whenever I saw a powerful new threat, I readied my banning stick in anticipation. But after almost three years of competitive battling, I've changed my mind. I want to see exactly what the metagame can handle before we start banning things. Even now, I kind of want an Excadrill retest, even though I was a fervent supporter of it's banning. I think that with any new generation, a complete retest is necessary.
 
I want something like this:

Water + Flying
~580 BST (115+ speed, 100+ SpA)
~Serene Grace
~Hurricane
~Scald
~Quiver Dance
~Roost

Who's with me????

I'm not with you that's for sure. STAB 100% accurate 'Canes and rain-boosted STAB Scalds with a 60% chance to cause confusion or burn, respectively. Serene Grace, in my opinion, regardless of what other people think, is broken enough on Jirachi. Look at Skymin and it's high speed and SG. AND you want to give it the best special boosting move in the game and reliable recovery? This thing would get suspected quicker than Chansey when that fat bitch fell through the bottom of OU and landed in UU a week and a half ago.

Now I have even more things to wish for on top of what I have since the Genie of the Lamp says I haven't ran out yet. I am going to divide it into two sections: changes/additions by GameFreak and changes/additions by TrollFreak. After reading, everyone should understand the difference between the two.

Additions/Changes by GameFreak:
-An ability that negates an attacking move's negative stat drops (Close Combat, Superpower, V-Create, Draco Meteor, Leaf Storm, etc. Recoil damage would still occur)
-100% accurate Base 80 power special attacking move with a 10% chance to lower the foe's SpD OR make Rock Slide 100%. That would satisfy me along with many other competitive battlers.
-A priority move with a secondary effect (preferably ground-typed because fuck Jirachi) on a pokemon with Sheer Force. STAB or not STAB'd, I would be fine with it.
-Cosmic Power Mandibuzz. I would abuse the shit out of that fucking vulture.
-Before the turn of the millennium, there were rumors of a Starmie evolution for GS. Obviously that never happened, but I would love to see that go down for XY. Starmie would be able to abuse an Eviolite pretty well since it would give it good defenses and reliable recovery, but would be held back by the fact it has a small HP stat, therefore, Starmie would remain not broken and simply more difficult to take down.
-That reminds me, Pinsir needs an evolution since it is directly related to Scyther. GameFreak makes him a dual Bug/Dragon type. World peace would occur shortly after.

Additions/Changes by TrollFreak:
-Every generation, there is a minimum of one Pseudo-legendary pokemon introduced. For Gen 6, I could see TrollFreak making the highly-anticipated Dragon/Fighting type the wanna-be legendary of the generation. The reason why it is TrollFreak's doing is because it would be Special-based instead of physical, yet have all the physical tools it needs to succeed. Also, no Focus Miss or Aurora Sphere for Mr. perfect coverage! Vacuum Wave will have to do.
-Farfetch'd gets an evolution! And it is still a shitty pokemon. 80-80-80-90-90-90 base stats. TrollFreak grants everyone's wish and people will remain upset.
-New insta-weather pokes are introduced, and they are all garbage. We all know it is coming, lets not deny it.

What are other people's thoughts on these speculations? How will it effect the metagame, if at all?

EDIT: Speaking on the Ban List, I, too, agree there should be no ban list to begin with, and then swiftly kick stuff to the curb that are obviously way too powerful (Mewtwo, Arceus, etc.)
 
I actually can see GAmefreak changing some Pokmeon's typing around this genVI. I'm acutally hoping more DW abilities or common sense changes to certain Pokemon's weaknesses.

If a Pokemon has WINGS and is seen flying or levitating above ground dammit Gamefreak make it immune to Ground moves by default.

Flygon needs to Dragon/Bug with a Default immunity to Sandstorm damage and Ground weakness.

What bus me (no pun intended) is that a lot of Pokemon have some interesting Pokedex index but they don't have any abilities or moves that match with their descriptions.
 
I want better and better-distributed set-up moves for walls. Offense got Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and TAIL GLOW. Stall has Substitute and Cosmic Power. Who got the better end of that bargain?
 
I understand the reasoning behind making Flygon a Dragon/Bug, but it would be just so much worse without Ground STAB...
 
I want better and better-distributed set-up moves for walls. Offense got Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and TAIL GLOW. Stall has Substitute and Cosmic Power. Who got the better end of that bargain?

Well...they did get Cotton Guard. It's just terrible and got even worse distribution (Whimsicott, Ampharos, and Altaria, right?).

But yeah some writer defense boosting moves would be cool. I wanna see some more like Curse that raise certain stats and lower others.
 
Please try not to get caught in the rut of talking about specific Pokemon. According to the OP, we're looking for more broad generalizations of what people would like out of the metagame based on their reflections of the current Gen5 metagame.

Thankee!
 
i just want a reliable, decently powered (like 80-90 BP) rock-type attack with good distribution

seriously thats it

This. And even though others have already said it, a nice special Rock type move would be appreciated. Seriously, Power Gem?

make the weather inducing abilities last only 5 turns would be a good start. 7 if holding damp rock/etc.

Hippo+Ttar though.
 
If any ridiculous fully evolved mon should get an evo, it's Forretress. I mean, it's a freakin' Cacoon/Pupa. How many other Cacoon Pokemon do you know that don't have an evolved form????


My idea for Forry Evolved Bag-worm Thing:
88 / 55 / 110 / 90 / 85 / 112
Steel / Bug
Ability: Levitate

Relevant Special Attacks
-Bug Buzz
-Flash Cannon
-Volt Switch
-Hurricane?
-Thunder?

Support / Setup / Non-Attacking
-Spikes
-Toxic Spikes
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Quiver Dance
-Roost
-Whirlwind
-Powders?


Example Set:
Really Annoying Fast Setup Thing
Ability: Levitate
Timid 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 SPE
@Leftovers
-Rapid Spin
-Spikes
-Roost
-Volt Switch

Immune to Spikes, T-Spikes, Sand, and neutral to SR. Has a ridiculously fast Spikes / Spin, and reliable recovery in Roost. Also, Magnezone's Magnet Pull is pretty much pointless against it (unless you use Scarf Zone).


Plus Forry would get Eviolite. lol
 
Bad idea ... :(

I want a pokemon with theses types :

Bug/Dark
Bug/Dragon
Bug/Ice
Bug/Normal
Bug/Psychic
Dark/Electric
Dark/Fighting
Dark/Psychic
Dragon/Electric
Dragon/Fighting
Dragon/Grass
Dragon/Normal
Dragon/Poison
Electric/Fighting
Electric/Fire
Electric/Normal
Electric/Poison
Electric/Psychic
Electric/Rock
Fighting/Flying
Fighting/Ice
Fighting/Ghost
Fighting/Normal
Fire/Grass
Fire/Ice
Fire/Normal
Fire/Poison
Fire/Water
Ghost/Grass
Ghost/Normal
Ghost/Psychic
Ghost/Rock
Ghost/Steel
Ground/Normal
Ice/Normal
Ice/Poison
Ice/Rock
Ice/Steel
Normal/Poison
Normal/Rock
Poison/Psychic
Poison/Rock
Poison/Steel
 
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