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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

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What I really hate is the bad distribution of good Flying-type moves. Imagine, for example, if Landorus had Brave Bird. While not aesthetically fiting, it would not need to rely on Stone Edge to revenge kill things like Gengar and Lati@s. The recoil is a nuisiance, but hey, 180 base power! (counting STAB). Imagine if Sheer Force Landorus had Hurricane. BWAHAHAAHAHAHA! Thundurus-T would be able to easily pull off a Double Dance set if it had a Flying-type attack like Hurricane (Nasty Plot + Agility + Hurricane + Thunder =
14.gif
). If there's something that they need to fix on the Gen VI, is the distribution of Flying-type attacks. Good ones, of course.
 
Autotomize doesn't do anything for Metagross, he already has Agility (and I think Rock Polish?). You're thinking of Shift Gear which would be fucking insane.

And Brave Bird really doesn't do anything for Archeops that Head Smash can't until he can get rid of Defeatist.
 
Someone mentioned before the possibility of an item that boosted defenses by 1.3 for one or both stats, like life orb. Would such an item be worth it though?

For example:

Politoed specs hydropump to Blissey: 33.74 - 40.03% but after leftovers that's 27.49-33.78

compared to Blissey with a 1.3 defense boost:
Politoed specs hydropump: 25.92 - 30.52%

what are your thoughts, would it be worth the loss of leftovers?
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Someone mentioned before the possibility of an item that boosted defenses by 1.3 for one or both stats, like life orb. Would such an item be worth it though?

For example:

Politoed specs hydropump to Blissey: 33.74 - 40.03% but after leftovers that's 27.49-33.78

compared to Blissey with a 1.3 defense boost:
Politoed specs hydropump: 25.92 - 30.52%

what are your thoughts, would it be worth the loss of leftovers?
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i suppose the point would be more to be different, rather than better. but clearly that is quite negligable. what are the calcs for a 1.5 defence boost?
 
Onicon said:
The only way I can see healing entry hazards work without breaking the metagame would be a redistribution (and likely a buff) of Defog. This is currently the only way to remove enemy properties, this move unfortunately removes their entry hazards, too and quasi invites the opponent to Taunt you.

Unfortunalely, what works for defensive teams takes HO to ridiculous levels. The only way I can ever see an advent of stall working will not be by "buffing" things because offensive teams profit by them equally while they enjoy the rise of the moves base power more than stall.
The only way I can see an advent of stall working is by nerfing the base power of a few selected moves. We believe this to be one of the grave reasons why offensive teams are much more popular.

Oh, and we think that Choice priority kills the Choice Scarf. Common sense keep telling us that any way of increasing the priority for a move of choice but Custap Berry is broken.
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I don't think Healing entry hazards would really help HO much. They don't really switch so much as revenge kill. It would help Stall a lot though, by giving psuedo Regenerator to your whole team.
As for Stealth Vines, while I do agree they sound cool and the nerf on water types would be neat, there's nothing to stop a team using both SR and SV which would probably just make the meta even more Dragon, Fighting and Steel focused.
 
Well, we already have Eviolite which gives a 1.5x defense boost, but obviously only to NFEs. Maybe Game Freak could bring out an item than gives a 1.5x boost to ALL Pokemon, but only to one of the defensive stats rather than to both, perhaps?

I think an way Game Freak could make some awesome defensive Pokemon would be to have a Pokemon that automatically brings up Reflect on switch-in, and a counterpart that automatically brings up Light Screen on switch in. If those Pokemon had fairly competent stats, movepools and types, they could be huge in the metagame. It could support the rest of your team hugely like the weathers do.

An ability that activates Trick Room on switch-in would be interesting too.

But as I mentioned before, I think simply changing the damage formula would be helpful.
 
What about making Cloud Nine and Air Lock completely removing weather upon switching in instead of merely having the user ignore weather while it's out?

Weatherless teams would still have to cope with the problem there aren't (Or may not be in Gen VI) very good users of this ability, but Cloud Nine and Air Lock could finally be useful. Lickilicky and Altaria could become rather viable with that change... or that's what I think

(Let's not mention what Rayquaza could do in Ubers if that change actually happened :P)
 
I'd like a new TM that is a special based Fighting move with 80 to 100 BP with atleast 95% accuracy. No more Focus Miss! Also how about strong physical Ice TM for Pokemon like Weavile. Granted this would make the meta even more offensive then defensive.
 
Do you think if there was a permanent trick room pokemon that it would be a staple on stall? Reversing speed pretty much makes every single one of your pokemon a check on your team since most stall teams are on the slow side. Most trick room sweepers are jokes to against stall, so its not like we would be opening up a huge weakness.
 
After being linked posts on irc about this thread I've just stopped by to mention how terrible Permanent Trick Room would be.

Now, some of you may be thinking "what makes this idea so awful". Let's look at current BW, totally offensive and lame. The entire generation has been conflicted and harmed by permanent rain and sun, why would the inclusion of perm TR make this any better? By adding perm TR to a metagame you fuck speed up even more than Gen 5 did. By the way, nothing would stop perm TR and perm weather to be coupled, I can run a perm-TR/Sun team with V-Create spam.

A lot of competitive changes must been seen from a VGC standpoint. Gamefreak obviously cares much more about their metagame than any other and in VGC Trick Room is already a legitimate strategy and all around strong move. Since it has been such a strong move for years I cannot see them buffing it, it would be so easily dominant.

@above post

I can actually see stall being hurt by permanent TR but I guess it's dependent on what the mon itself would be. If it were on the bulkier side it might be able to help stall out but in a metagame where speed has become much less important it is easier for mons to focus on bulk and power, you might see a lot more mixed Pokemon. Stall would fuckin HATE that.
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Do you think if there was a permanent trick room pokemon that it would be a staple on stall? Reversing speed pretty much makes every single one of your pokemon a check on your team since most stall teams are on the slow side. Most trick room sweepers are jokes to against stall, so its not like we would be opening up a huge weakness.
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I think permanent trick room pokes would throw some tiers for a loop. Some slow pokes would benefit greatly from this. Slow, but powerful pokes like Druddigon and Excavelier would have new uses. Not to mention using TR teams and some stall would get a generally bigger boost.
 
I would like to see:

Speed Orb: Life Orb with 1.3 speed
Defense Orb: Life Orb with 1.3 defense
Offensive Eviolite: 1.5 attack and special with pre-evolutions.
Choice Defense: 1.5 defenses with locking into one move.
Life Choice Specs/Band: 2 attack/special with locking into one move and taking 10% damage.
God Orb: 1.5 boost to all stats for Arceus and Rayquaza.
-Outrage with no confusion.
-90BP Rock attack with 100% accuracy
-More priorities
-Flying version of u-turn
-Focus Punch BP changed to 200
-Explosion halves defenses again
-Hydreigon gets contrary, it's a hydra come on


-Clear Body Regigigas and neutral ability for Slaking.

-More drizzle/drought users.

-Nerfed stealth rocks (dealing half of what it deals now).
 
Defense Orb seems weird. Ups your defenses, but you take damage when you attack. A lot of Stall pokes don't attack but still...

As for Perma Trick Room: No, oh god, please no. People claim perma weather is OP, but at least it can be changed with your own weather. There is nothing you could do to stop me from sending out my perma trick room guy at the start of the battle, and having all my powerful, bulky pokes get a massive speed boost. Well, you could run a ton of slow, bulky pokemon yourself, but I'd say that's a ridiculous level of centralisation.
 
For those that want perma-Trick Room, remember something: The only way to remove Trick Room is... applying Trick Room again. This not only makes Trick Room potentially endless if the opponent cannot use Trick Room by themselves, but you could mess yourself by sending your Trick Room inducer again. Perma-Trick Room doesn't work. Period

An item that could extend Trick Room's turn length would be fine, though
 
Perma-Trick Room... Rampardos being the god of all Pokéworld there? An item to incresse the duration is fine, but I could rather not buff with anything else, Trick Room is already powerful on singles and doubles.
 
Nyara said:
Perma-Trick Room... Rampardos being the god of all Pokéworld there? An item to incresse the duration is fine, but I could rather not buff with anything else, Trick Room is already powerful on singles and doubles.
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Actually, Rampardos would not be as dangerous as other pokémon. Being weak to two attacks the #1 and #2 Technician users ALWAYS have in their movesets would keep it in check

The problem would be pokémon such as Marowak, Azumarill (Whose Aqua Jet would help it check Marowak), Medicham... and Swords Dance Ferrothorn (Techniloom would be able to check it, though, but what else?)
 
Not to mention you have a lot of Banded / Specs Pokemon that are more viable now if perma-TR is released (banded Conk / banded Landy-T / banded Ferrothorn / specs chandulure).
 
Shurtugal said:
Not to mention you have a lot of Banded / Specs Pokemon that are more viable now if perma-TR is released (banded Conk / banded Landy-T / banded Ferrothorn / specs chandulure).
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Choice Band Escavalier would be beastly. Especially if he got more variety of moves Gen VI.
 
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