Good point.
With 150 as both offensive stat, Rayquaza can go physical, special, or mixed (although IMO Physical is best because of Swords Dance). Damn dude is too awesome.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Retrofit (New pokes, RBY Mechanics Theorymon thread)
- Thread starter Chou Toshio
- Start date
Good point.
With 150 as both offensive stat, Rayquaza can go physical, special, or mixed (although IMO Physical is best because of Swords Dance). Damn dude is too awesome.
Yeah, it would need some paralyze support in order to sweep.
So, I just realized that Milotic is scary. Really, really scary.
HP: 95
ATK: 60
DEF: 79
SPC: 125
SPE: 81
-Wrap
-Recover
-Surf
-Blizzard
Huge Special and good HP mean it's incredibly durable. They send a physical attacker like Tauros out to break you? Wrap on the switch-in and get out unscathed. Surf and Blizzard hit incredibly hard; Hydro Pump is also a viable option, with power on par with Articuno's Blizzard, but 80% accuracy is a problem. Milotic can function as a wall that never dies, much like Chansey- but with passable (though only passable) physical bulk, ridiculous offensive power (nothing is setting up on Milotic- maybe Amnesia Waters, due to coverage issues; that's it) and Wrap.
HP: 95
ATK: 60
DEF: 79
SPC: 125
SPE: 81
-Wrap
-Recover
-Surf
-Blizzard
Huge Special and good HP mean it's incredibly durable. They send a physical attacker like Tauros out to break you? Wrap on the switch-in and get out unscathed. Surf and Blizzard hit incredibly hard; Hydro Pump is also a viable option, with power on par with Articuno's Blizzard, but 80% accuracy is a problem. Milotic can function as a wall that never dies, much like Chansey- but with passable (though only passable) physical bulk, ridiculous offensive power (nothing is setting up on Milotic- maybe Amnesia Waters, due to coverage issues; that's it) and Wrap.
Rotom-Frost is really cool actually
Rotom-Frost
Ice/Electric
HP: 50
Atk: 65
Def: 107
SpC: 107 (over 105)
Spe: 86
Blizzard
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Mimic / Rest / Confuse Ray / Reflect
Rotom-Frost's movepool is really small, however, he gets exactly what he needs. What makes the refrigerator so cool is that not only does he get STAB BoltBeam, but he is also the only thing that resists BoltBeam in a Retrofitted Meta. His HP and Attack are pitiful, but his Defenses and Special are decently high. His modest Special is boosted when you consider STAB on BoltBeam, which will most likely score a Super Effective hit. Ice-typing is good in RBY due to lack of good Fighting-types and Fire-types, while Electric is a good typing as well. However, he looses Levitate, making him weak to EarthSlide (that's what I'm calling it at least). Last move is filler, I pretty much just slapped on every move that is slightly viable.
Also, Thundurus-T is pretty cool
Thundurus-T
Electric/Flying
HP: 79
Atk: 105
Def: 70
SpC: 145 (over 80)
Spe: 101
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Hyper Beam / Agility
Thunder Wave
His Special is really good, and unlike Chandelure, he has the speed to abuse it. He competes with Zapdos for a spot, but Thundurus-T has some advantages over out spikey friend. He's outspeeds all of the base 100's by 1 point. He also has a higher attack stat, although he has no physical STAB to abuse like Zapdos. He does have Psychic though, which is a decent enough coverage move, as it allows you to hit common Electric resists such as Rhyperior. Hyper Beam is to hit weaken things with lower defenses. Agility can be used if 101 isn't fast enough for you, but outspeeding base 100s is probably good enough. It should be noted that because of how Paralysis works in Gen 1, Agility would allow you to keep your key 101 speed even if you're paralyzed. This is because if you use agility while you're paralyzed, unless you're hit with a speed reducing move (aka String Shot), Agility will essentially put you at neutral speed. What is really cool though, is his access to Thunder Wave. This is extremely good when you factor in that he will always outspeed base 100s and slower, so he will get the jump on them, allowing him to support his team, allowing a sweep for slower pokemon, such as Rayquaza or, more realistically, something like Rotom-Anything!
Rotom-Frost
Ice/Electric
HP: 50
Atk: 65
Def: 107
SpC: 107 (over 105)
Spe: 86
Blizzard
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Mimic / Rest / Confuse Ray / Reflect
Rotom-Frost's movepool is really small, however, he gets exactly what he needs. What makes the refrigerator so cool is that not only does he get STAB BoltBeam, but he is also the only thing that resists BoltBeam in a Retrofitted Meta. His HP and Attack are pitiful, but his Defenses and Special are decently high. His modest Special is boosted when you consider STAB on BoltBeam, which will most likely score a Super Effective hit. Ice-typing is good in RBY due to lack of good Fighting-types and Fire-types, while Electric is a good typing as well. However, he looses Levitate, making him weak to EarthSlide (that's what I'm calling it at least). Last move is filler, I pretty much just slapped on every move that is slightly viable.
Also, Thundurus-T is pretty cool
Thundurus-T
Electric/Flying
HP: 79
Atk: 105
Def: 70
SpC: 145 (over 80)
Spe: 101
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Hyper Beam / Agility
Thunder Wave
His Special is really good, and unlike Chandelure, he has the speed to abuse it. He competes with Zapdos for a spot, but Thundurus-T has some advantages over out spikey friend. He's outspeeds all of the base 100's by 1 point. He also has a higher attack stat, although he has no physical STAB to abuse like Zapdos. He does have Psychic though, which is a decent enough coverage move, as it allows you to hit common Electric resists such as Rhyperior. Hyper Beam is to hit weaken things with lower defenses. Agility can be used if 101 isn't fast enough for you, but outspeeding base 100s is probably good enough. It should be noted that because of how Paralysis works in Gen 1, Agility would allow you to keep your key 101 speed even if you're paralyzed. This is because if you use agility while you're paralyzed, unless you're hit with a speed reducing move (aka String Shot), Agility will essentially put you at neutral speed. What is really cool though, is his access to Thunder Wave. This is extremely good when you factor in that he will always outspeed base 100s and slower, so he will get the jump on them, allowing him to support his team, allowing a sweep for slower pokemon, such as Rayquaza or, more realistically, something like Rotom-Anything!
I feel like a lot of the offensive Pokemon with <100 base speed are being overvalued. Even 100 base speed is probably "slow" in a retrofit because the benchmark has increased by so much. Blizzard weakness is crushing due to likely domination from new ice types and the attack will be whored to everything.
Regice for uber.
Dusknoir seems like a necessity to counter suped up Tauros clones:
HP : 45
Atk : 100
Def : 135
SPC : 135 (over 65)
Spe : 45
Blizzard
Thunderpunch
Earthquake (best option against Chansey/low Def psychic types)
Confuse ray
Regice for uber.
Dusknoir seems like a necessity to counter suped up Tauros clones:
HP : 45
Atk : 100
Def : 135
SPC : 135 (over 65)
Spe : 45
Blizzard
Thunderpunch
Earthquake (best option against Chansey/low Def psychic types)
Confuse ray
Abomasnow (Ice/Grass)
HP: 90
Att: 92
Def: 75
Speed: 60
Special: 92 (over 85)
- Blizzard
- Razor Leaf
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
With a moveset like that, you'd think he'd be awesome, but his stats just don't stack up to other existing Pokemon in his environment (the Razor Leaf is worse than Venusaur's, there's plenty of Blizzard being thrown around on better Specials, etc). He'd require some prediction to pull off when one of its many (many) weaknesses switch in, as QuakeSlide super-effects all but one of his six weaknesses (lolfighting).
HP: 90
Att: 92
Def: 75
Speed: 60
Special: 92 (over 85)
- Blizzard
- Razor Leaf
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
With a moveset like that, you'd think he'd be awesome, but his stats just don't stack up to other existing Pokemon in his environment (the Razor Leaf is worse than Venusaur's, there's plenty of Blizzard being thrown around on better Specials, etc). He'd require some prediction to pull off when one of its many (many) weaknesses switch in, as QuakeSlide super-effects all but one of his six weaknesses (lolfighting).
In retrofit, there is :
- no stealth rock
- no steel type
- no good bug type
- no poison type attack
- no good Fighting Pokemon
- Rare fire attacks
- Rare Flying attack
So except Zapdos Drill Peck and some rare FireBlast&Submission, we can't say that Abo have a lot of weaknesses. He resists however Water, Grass, Electric ... Which isn't bad !
It looks like the competitive environment would be populated by stuff with significantly >100 base specials, so I doubt that something like Abomasnow is going to cut the mustard, especially with 60 base speed. However, at least it can switch into water types with relative impunity.
Nevermind Dusknoir, Jellicent has STAB and HP recovery, and can actually outspeed some stuff.
HP : 100
Atk : 60
Def : 70
SPC : 105 (over 85)
Spe : 60
Surf
Nightshade/Blizzard
Confuse Ray
Recover
Nevermind Dusknoir, Jellicent has STAB and HP recovery, and can actually outspeed some stuff.
HP : 100
Atk : 60
Def : 70
SPC : 105 (over 85)
Spe : 60
Surf
Nightshade/Blizzard
Confuse Ray
Recover
Don't forget that Milotic gets Haze, so if you were really worried about set ups (which aren't that common in RBY outside Amnesia anyway) you could always get rid of them that way.
Also, an obviously nice Uber:
Kyurem White
HP: 125
ATK: 120
DEF: 90
SPC: 170
SPE: 95
-Blizzard
That's all you need.
But seriously, other moves it can use (it doesn't have a lot but just enough): Slash, Hyper Beam, Psychic, Light Screen, Reflect, Rest.
Alternatively, you could always Mimic to try to grab a Thunderbolt/Thunder from Lapras (or Kyogre, or whatever).
Basically, you've got ridic special (though lower than Regice obviously), and while you miss out on Thunderbolt, you've got good Speed, overall much better bulk, and the ability to go mix with the 140 base power Slash or Hyper Beam firing of 120 ATK.
Only sad thing is that it's only other Special attack is Psychic, but Normal / Ice has pretty awesome coverage in RB (as Normal + anything that kills Rhydon/Golem is good in RB), and Kyurem-W has more than enough ATK to make Slash good. Since most Ubers will be packing fat Specials, a powerful Slash might be better anyway.
Shuckle is hackedmon with very, very limited movepool.
Shuckle:
Hp: 20
Atk: 10
Def: 230
Spc: 230
Spe: 5
-Mimic
-Toxic
-Substitute
-Rest
Mimic is main shuckle's move which allows him to copy any special move and prepare to sweep. Toxic is option to physical-based pokemon. Substitute for avoiding status moves such as Toxic and TWave. With Rest shuckle can survive even more and make your foe frustrate.
Shuckle:
Hp: 20
Atk: 10
Def: 230
Spc: 230
Spe: 5
-Mimic
-Toxic
-Substitute
-Rest
Mimic is main shuckle's move which allows him to copy any special move and prepare to sweep. Toxic is option to physical-based pokemon. Substitute for avoiding status moves such as Toxic and TWave. With Rest shuckle can survive even more and make your foe frustrate.
GS's Deoxys-D set:
Deoxys-D
-Psychic
-Wrap
-Agility
-Recover
Actually all the deoxys + wrap (deoxys-s, lol) would be pretty silly :P
Deoxys-D
-Psychic
-Wrap
-Agility
-Recover
Actually all the deoxys + wrap (deoxys-s, lol) would be pretty silly :P
idk if ayone else noticed, but Slaking is on that list. And it has a decent special movepool.
This is something i've thought of a lot, glad to see it has a place to be discussed!
Slaking :
Snorlax, but better - SDS
No, seriously....
Anyway just slap a FishKing on the damn Slaking and call it a day. i wonder if i actualy wanted to use Good ol FishLax on Slaking or Amnesia. On one hand, FishKing lacks the Selfdestruct, and have 100 speed which IIRC is Snorlax biggest problem at using Amnesia(outspeed + Crit)
So, yeah
Slaking :
Slash/EQ
Body Slam/EQ
Hyper Beam
Blizzard
Hyper Beam for finisher. Slash or Body Slam as your choice. I would choose Body Slam for the para tbh. EQ for Gengar, and Blizzard for Rocks. Tauros clone ? Sure why not(i think only Arceus comes close to this insanity)
Snorlax, but better - SDS
No, seriously....
Anyway just slap a FishKing on the damn Slaking and call it a day. i wonder if i actualy wanted to use Good ol FishLax on Slaking or Amnesia. On one hand, FishKing lacks the Selfdestruct, and have 100 speed which IIRC is Snorlax biggest problem at using Amnesia(outspeed + Crit)
So, yeah
Slaking :
Slash/EQ
Body Slam/EQ
Hyper Beam
Blizzard
Hyper Beam for finisher. Slash or Body Slam as your choice. I would choose Body Slam for the para tbh. EQ for Gengar, and Blizzard for Rocks. Tauros clone ? Sure why not(i think only Arceus comes close to this insanity)
Arceus would probably do something more like:
-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Recover
-Earthquake
(Another set come up with by GS).
Thing about Slaking / Regigigas is that they are so fucking powerful, there's almost no point in running Blizzard/Surf + Earthquake, as Earthquake just kills rocks and gengar with ease.
Similarly, after a SD, Arceus has no need for Ice Beam. Just kill, and kill with HB and EQ.
-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Recover
-Earthquake
(Another set come up with by GS).
Thing about Slaking / Regigigas is that they are so fucking powerful, there's almost no point in running Blizzard/Surf + Earthquake, as Earthquake just kills rocks and gengar with ease.
Similarly, after a SD, Arceus has no need for Ice Beam. Just kill, and kill with HB and EQ.
Cobalion (Fighting)
HP: 91
ATK: 90
DEF: 129
SPEC: 72
SPD: 108
-Thunder Wave
-Body Slam
-Mimic
-Hyper Beam
Big stats, tiny movepool, that is to be said. Psychic weak, double kick (lol) as its strongest STAB, can't touch ghosts, that's as close as a Entei counterpart for a bad legendary pkmn. It gets Thunder wave as a fast and physical wall which is a slighty unique role for it. Body Slam as its most reliable move and Mimic is necessary for grabbing moves to hit rock types and ghosts. Fortunately, it resists rock slide which is the safest for it. Hyper Beam coming from an okay 90 ATK can work as well.
Gliscor (Ground/Flying)
HP: 75
ATK: 95
DEF: 125
SPEC: 45
SPD: 95
-Agility
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
Blizzard weak? Frail in special? Ow... But once it can get both SD and agility boosts, expect a destructive force coming with a STAB Earthquake.
HP: 91
ATK: 90
DEF: 129
SPEC: 72
SPD: 108
-Thunder Wave
-Body Slam
-Mimic
-Hyper Beam
Big stats, tiny movepool, that is to be said. Psychic weak, double kick (lol) as its strongest STAB, can't touch ghosts, that's as close as a Entei counterpart for a bad legendary pkmn. It gets Thunder wave as a fast and physical wall which is a slighty unique role for it. Body Slam as its most reliable move and Mimic is necessary for grabbing moves to hit rock types and ghosts. Fortunately, it resists rock slide which is the safest for it. Hyper Beam coming from an okay 90 ATK can work as well.
Gliscor (Ground/Flying)
HP: 75
ATK: 95
DEF: 125
SPEC: 45
SPD: 95
-Agility
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
Blizzard weak? Frail in special? Ow... But once it can get both SD and agility boosts, expect a destructive force coming with a STAB Earthquake.
Slash with SD is not so well ... So I think Rock Slide is better.
Darn, forgot that slash ignores stat changes.