Gen 3 RoA Speed CCAT - [DONE]

#58
Step 3: Teammates

Jorgen 8
Remedy 2
Lavos Spawn 1

Alright so it's clear Jorgen's submission wins the poll so here's what we have so far


Moltres @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice
- Sunny Day
- Morning Sun


Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 188 HP / 160 Atk / 160 SpA
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Fire
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion

Playstyle: Offense

_______


Same thing as step 2, but you are now allowed to submit up to a core of 3 Pokemon. This step last ~48 hours. :)
 

Reymedy

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#59
Okay, next is something to deal with Bulky Water I guess. Stuff like Milotic, Pert, Vaporeon, Cune. Especially since Pert/Vaporeon can protect, so boom can be hard and tricky to pull off. Cune can Sub, and be a major nuisance from what I see because nothing would break the substitute.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
240 HP / 224 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Giga Drain / HP Grass

Can boost along with Cune, or Leech Seed it. It does also Leech Seed and boost on Snorlax, who could be a major nuisance because he can come on Moltres and start Cursing.

The issue now, can be stuff like DD Ttar that could also set-up on Moltres (and switch the weather by the way) and hit everybody for good damages. Aerodactyl would be also annoying I guess given the coverage.

So I'm gonna take 0 risk and go for :


Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
240 HP / 32 SpA / 32 Atk / 16 Spe / 188 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Classic Swampert, he will wall the stuff that I mentioned (and Gyarados that I forgot !) and cripple bulky waters with Toxic. Nothing special here.
 
#60
The playstyle of this team is offense. the things that Reymedy suggests are only going to slow the team down, especially since they give skarmory and forretress free chances to set up entry hazards, meaning stall will be a problem unless we really slow this team down and add a spinner. I suggest Dugtrio + Suicune O_o

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 8 HP / 208 Atk / 40 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

+

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SAtk / 160 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Substitute
- Ice Beam

As Jorgen previously mentioned, Dugtrio traps a lot of Moltres' counters. Suicune might be a good fit because it sets up on the bulky waters that Moltres has trouble with if Metagross cant boom on them. Defensively, this core in addition to the rest of our team covers a majority of ADV. if we use my suggestion we'll need to really pack good answers to electric-types and snorlax.
 

Pocket

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#61

Gengar @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Water] / Focus Punch


Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace

Gengar lures in all the problematic mons that Jorgen listed (Snorlax, Blissey, Houndoom, Tyranitar) so that they can be severely crippled or killed by either Gengar or Dugtrio. Gengar can Explode on the special sponges that swithes in, whereas it can sac itself or double-switch into Dugtrio versus Tyranitar or Houndoom.

The last moveslot for Gengar is largely filler, with handful of options. HP Water or Focus Punch are both legitimate options in softening up or knocking out the Dark-types, but the status moves are useful overall.
 
#62
i was actually strongly considering nominating the core that Pocket nominated. I chose not to simply because it doesn't do anything for the team defensively, although it obviously helps Moltres a lot. Pocket's core leaves us to check all electric-types, salamence, gyarados, suicune, flygon, and water-types(with your core we cant really switch into starmie, pert, vaporeon, cloy). my core leaves us weak to fewer threats: snorlax(we have meta though), electrics, gyarados, cune. i dont think pocket's core is worse but maybe we should consider a lure a little later.

i was actually thinking that explosion regice would be good since it checks electrics, lures lax, checks gyarados, and is okay versus suicune. however, i wanted to save the regice idea for later. based on the team thus far, Regice is the superior special wall lure, especially if we use my core.
 

Pocket

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#63
I'm pretty sure we can patch up all the mons you listed that are unchecked by my core with the last 2 slots (say a specially defensive Zapdos and a bulky Water). Metagross can switch into many of these mons on resisted HP Flying or STAB Surfs (maybe even halved due to Sunny Day) and threaten to Explode, too.

Regardless you usually want to finalize your offensive core before moving onto your defensive core when teambuilding. I really like your Regice idea, though - it's certainly another viable offensive option! I suggest you nominate that Regice ;d It's hard to deny Gengar's immense Speed, though, and seeing how this team is on the slower side, I figured Gengar would be a good fit
 

Reymedy

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#65
I think that we will be almost forced to pick Celebi at some point. And then, you could regret having a Sub Cune as bulky water to stand up against the threats I mentioned.
But well, let's see, if it doesn't fit the team style..

I'm really not confident in Moltres's ability to break a decent defensive core, and Sub Cune doesn't work so well either against anything called CM Bliss. I would prefer not rely on a Boom Gross for the wall breaking, and on a Sub Cune to take so many StoneQuake users.
 
#66
just a thought but if you did something like sunny day eggy (which actually fits really well thus far) then you can drop sunny day on moltres, which is a wasted slot imo, and instead fill it with will o wisp which actually gives it an answer to ttar, lax, etc. i think wow on moltres is really important for it to be any good so i feel like we need to relegate sunny day to somewhere else on the team. other options besides eggy include blissey and flygon, sd flygon in particular because landing solarbeam on pert feels great. i made a team somewhat similar to this once, it was meta / eggy / moltres / lax / flygon / pert and it actually performed pretty well in smogon tour last year so i'm getting my ideas from that
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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#67
Just bringing up the fact that I liked Traingles' suggestion to use WoW over HP Ice, since most things you'd need HP Ice to hit hate taking burns, too, and all the while you can actually do something to pert/gyara instead of being totally dependent on team support (which in this case is risky Explosions). Sunny Day is pretty important and can't really be taken off imo, that power boost is the whole reason to use Moltres, and honestly if Moltres can't set that up itself it's going to struggle.

As for a good backup core I'm not smart enough in ADV to do that, all I knew was that Dug would probably be a really good fit.
 
#68
i was thinking toxic > wow. with toxic you have snorlax covered. you poison thick fat lax and do a ton in the sun to immunity lax. toxic is really good against waters, too
 
#69
burning lax is better than poisoning it, though, since if it's burned it's not going to be able to curse and hit you hard or just hasty boom and you're both dead. and jorgen, mono-attacking moltres kinda sucks because it gets walled by anything with even moderate levels of bulk that can resist fire. cune, pert, bliss, thick fat lax all come to mind. sunny day doesn't specifically have to be on moltres anyways, there are teammates out there that could set up sd better than moltres because they suffer less from 4mss and thus aren't missing out on much by putting sd over something else.
 
#70
it cant deny that wow is better versus snorlax but toxic is much better vs bulky waters. it's also very good against houndog. toxic is better overall
 
#71
i guess that's fair. on the team i cited my moltres had hp grass>hp ice so i wasn't concerned about pert and the like as much, which is why i ran wow>toxic. i guess if you're running hp ice then toxic might be the better move to have. it's all situational really, we'll have to make a collective judgment call on this one. lol houndoom
 
#72
Step 3: Teammates Voting

I'm liking the discussion so far ^_^ so here we go~


Celebi @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
240 HP / 224 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Giga Drain / HP Grass

Can boost along with Cune, or Leech Seed it. It does also Leech Seed and boost on Snorlax, who could be a major nuisance because he can come on Moltres and start Cursing.

The issue now, can be stuff like DD Ttar that could also set-up on Moltres (and switch the weather by the way) and hit everybody for good damages. Aerodactyl would be also annoying I guess given the coverage.

So I'm gonna take 0 risk and go for :



Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
240 HP / 32 SpA / 32 Atk / 16 Spe / 188 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Classic Swampert, he will wall the stuff that I mentioned (and Gyarados that I forgot !) and cripple bulky waters with Toxic. Nothing special here.

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 8 HP / 208 Atk / 40 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

+


Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SAtk / 160 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Substitute
- Ice Beam

As Jorgen previously mentioned, Dugtrio traps a lot of Moltres' counters. Suicune might be a good fit because it sets up on the bulky waters that Moltres has trouble with if Metagross cant boom on them. Defensively, this core in addition to the rest of our team covers a majority of ADV. if we use my suggestion we'll need to really pack good answers to electric-types and snorlax.

Gengar @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Water] / Focus Punch


Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace

Gengar lures in all the problematic mons that Jorgen listed (Snorlax, Blissey, Houndoom, Tyranitar) so that they can be severely crippled or killed by either Gengar or Dugtrio. Gengar can Explode on the special sponges that swithes in, whereas it can sac itself or double-switch into Dugtrio versus Tyranitar or Houndoom.

The last moveslot for Gengar is largely filler, with handful of options. HP Water or Focus Punch are both legitimate options in softening up or knocking out the Dark-types, but the status moves are useful overall.
Remedy
Pocket
Sir
I see a lot of discussion on changing a move on Moltres; I'll allow a change of moves for Moltres in the next step to work with whatever that is nominated in the next step~ This voting stage lasts ~24 hours! :)
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#73
I like Pocket's suggestion, since I agree that offensive cores should be finalized before we try to patch up the defensive backbone that's necessary for consistency.
 

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