Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition

[lighthouses]

Let's put it this way, unless you have ACTUAL ARGUMENTS as to why ambipom shouldn't be ranked at all then you should post them here, but if all you have to say is "lol ambipom is bad makes the thread bad" then please don't, ambipom being E rank defeats the purpose of this thread entirely and it shouldn't be treated as such a controversial topic, when it really isn't.
And i agree that ambipom and cinccino should share the same ranking. Ambipom can actually do damage to steel types with low kick, while cinccino has a better movepool and its stronger in general, but completely shut down by any steel type.

 

[atomicllamas]

Alright, here is the deal, Ambipom is, by all means, a terrible Pokemon, and even the people arguing for Ambipom's ranking to rise have posts that essentially say, "Listen, I know Ambipom is bad but its still viable because ______," or, "Listen, I know Ambipom outclassed by <insert normal type> but it has a unique niche in ______." And normally I'd say that's cool, give it D rank, however, Ambipom is currently sitting 6.5% usage (5% on the suspect ladder, 8% on the regular ladder) and that's weighted stats. When newer people join the tier we don't want them to see the viability ranking thread and think that Ambipom isn't E rank so it must have some kind of a niche that makes it worth using on their team, when the reality is Ambipom is for the most part outclassed by Cinccino (a Pokemon that should be C or C- rank) and is actually just terrible in most situations. If a Pokemon is usually outclassed by a C rank Pokemon, and its seeing almost 7% usage I think we should be trying to discourage use of this Pokemon in general. So does Ambipom deserve D rank? Maybe, I certainly haven't been convinced. Should we put it in D rank even if it is a D rank Pokemon? No, this is primarily a resource to help people team build, especially people that are new to the meta game, because of this I am not going to move Ambipom out of E rank, Molk can if he wants to (but he doesn't so don't bug him about it) and EonX and SV are currently rip, so unless there is a significant change that allows Ambipom to become a C or higher ranked Pokemon its gonna stay in E rank.

Now lets talk about other things cause:

Why would you even use Ambipom? Cinccino too; they seem irrelevant in the metagame. I can't think of situations where I would use either because they are so easily beaten.

have a nice day :]

 

[lighthouses]

I swear this is the last thing i'll say about it, but wasn't ambipom always E rank and always had high usage? It happens because of the showdown teambuilder if anything.
Oh and, did virizion move up yet ? I think that with the new changes it really should
Edit:Nevermind, already saw it did :[

 

[Kyuzeth]

Quoting my previous post, but only Eelektross and Golbat moving up. I think Golbat is deserving of A with how good it is as a Defogger, while Eelektross deserves at least A- for checking so much and being quite a versatile Pokémon.

Eelektross (B+) -> A-/A | Eelektross has become a ton more useful with the recent departures of Serperior, Dragalge, Mega Pidgeot and Mega Sceptile. Its AV set checks things as comfortably as ever before, Volt Switch makes it a great momentum keeper and Knock Off has fantastic utility. With some bigger threats gone and thanks to its gargantuan movepool, Eelektross can run Coil or SubCoil sets to amp up its stats while retaining and gaining bulk; thanks to its brutal coverage, it can tailor any (Sub)Coil sets to hit whatever it needs to deal with for its team. All in all, things are looking bright for Eelektross and that's why it should at least move up to A-, if not A.

Golbat (A-) -> A | Gligar moved to UU, so Golbat now takes its position as the best Defogger in the tier. Like its fellow Flying-type Fletchinder, Golbat appreciates the rise of Fighting-types in RU; aside from Cobalion, all Fighting-types are easily checked thanks to its decently strong Brave Bird coming from 80 Attack. Its Poison-type allows it to check rising threat Slurpuff, as well as wall Aromatisse without much trouble. As most strong special attackers have left, Golbat can run its physically defensive spread again to optimally wall the threats it needs to dispose of. With Cresselia being so big and Golbat's Infiltrator bypassing any Substitutes the swan sets up, Crobat's little bro can easily force it out or wall it, should Cresselia lack any Psychic STABs. Golbat for A.

Also, can we please move on from Ambipom/Cinccino? We've discussed long enough about it and it's beginning to clutter the thread, in all honesty.

 

[phantom]

in general: stop proposing for golbat to move up, it loses to nearly every relevant sr user; that's awful, and i can think of 4 other mons i'd rather use for hazard removal over it

srsly, if anything golbat should move down

 

[Scythe.]

As Molk said, priority should be given to B+ rank mons, so there's my thoughts about them right now.

(B+) -> B | Ferbruary's Tier Shifts and last suspect test's bans both worked in its disfavour imo, a lot of top threats it used to manage properly for being a Steel-type that doesn't care too much about fighting- and ground-type moves, mainly from Sceptile-Mega and Dragalge that both used to extremely influence the metagame which allowed them to stay S-rank almost throughout the stage 6, has left the tier. So now they are banned i think Bronzong will recover the huge competition with Registeel and the many flaws it used to have during all XY RU and also just found a new competitor : Steelix-Mega. So yeah, now Dragalge being banned i can see some old wallbreakers striking back in the meta, especially Choice Specs Meloetta which unlike other bulky Steel-type mons on the tier can easily wreck Bronzong with Shadow Ball. Bronzong also litterally looses to all Calm Minders, considering they often carry Shadow Ball or a nice neutral-STAB (Slowking), and the fact that it can't touch them at all as it can't increase its own physical power, which means it also looses to SubCM Cresselia 1v1 unlike both Registeel and Steelix-Mega, thanks to Curse or Escavalier that can smack all them with a powerful super effective STAB. Although, it's pretty weak to Pursuit users, a move I've always seen being used in RU and that can easily cripple Zzzonger. But it still deserves to be part of B rank mons, considering it has nice niches on checking well both physical variants of Mega-Abomasnow and Mega-Glalie and having an immunity to duggy's Arena Trap which only hurts Registeel tbh.

+

(B+) -> A- | Unlike the latter, Electric-type mons greatly benefited from the last tier changes. Basically the two best Volt Switch immunities the tier had (Gligar and Mega-Sceptile) are now banned which freely allows Jolteon to now run HP Water over HP Ice to hurt the remaining ones, namely Rhyperior, Mega-Camerupt and an aweakned Mega-Steelix, the only thing it still can't pass at all is Seismitoad. Jolteon can also now work way better as a powerful late-game cleaner and can easily get rid of grass-type checks thanks to Volt Switch and a good hazard pressure. It's a huge dent for Offense as a lot of common scarfers, such as Moltres can't even kill it with their strongest STAB and is the only thing that does influence the scarfed meta rn on forcing it to always run a speed-boosting nature otherwise you'll get outspeeded. Jolteon actually also has nice utilies against bulkier teams with its SubBP set, allowing a teammate to easily pressure and break your opponent with one or two Swords Dances. And about Eelektross I'm just gonna fastly repeat what did Kyuzeth already say; it can check stuff easier than before, is one of the best momentum grapper a bulky offense can have and actually work as a nice stallbreaker with its SubCoil set.

However, I'm pretty sure Dugtrio or maybe Qwilfish might also drop to other B variants, but I can't exactly see why, any thoughts ?

 

[Ares]

So Omastar was ranked at B+ rank because of its matchup against Gligar and its ability to threaten out the main defogger in the tier. With Gligar gone the lead hazard set is no where near as good as it was before.

Shell Smash has become a thing, but I myself have not used it so I can't say where it should be ranked. Since Molk has asked for some discussion for the B+ ranks I think that if Omastar is B+ because of the lead set than it should be moved down or up to where ever the Shell Smash set should be ranked.

I know Spirit is someone who popularized it, so where do you think Shell Smashed should be ranked? Is B+ fair for the Shell Smash set or should it move?

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Qwilfish for A-
With mega pigeot serperior and dragalge also mega sceptile out of the way qwilfish's lead set got much better as mega sceptile,serperior and mega bird anti-lead it and kill it and it gives a free switch in to dragalge. But now that those are banned i feel qwilfish got a signifigant lease on life in viability. It's one of the few viable toxic spikes users as well which is always nice to have residual damage on enemies. Not only is it one of the only viable toxic spikes users it's also a good spikes user as well. With taunt in it's arsenal it can also attempt to block any defog attempts to get rid of it's hazards. Explosion rounds out lead sets nicely blocking rapid spin. Defensive sets while no where near as good as the lead set is also an option as the reasons in the first paragraph. It's speed is nice as it's typing making it pretty good partner for cupcake as it checks escavalier and turns it into spikes fodder. Finally gligar left due to usage and with the recent rise in fighting types due to the loss of gligar qwilfish checks/walls alot of them nicely as long as they aren't special

Also I forgot to mention it can anti lead custap crustle with taunt and it can proceed to waterfall it to death as it can't do to much back which is pretty cool

 

[MrAldo]

I have to agree with Golbat moving down. It is the certainly of the best hazard removers in this metagame (to be honest, with gligar leaving hazard removal isnt so reliable anymore) but the fact that, as mentioned, loses to pretty much every SR in the tier and have no real way to threaten the most common SR setter in rhyperior is certainly not good. Well, certainly it can check fighting types but most fighting types carry knock off removing its eviolite and reducing its bulk a lot, and it wont switch on medicham. It has a good typing, but having 75/70/75 bulk without eviolite is sincerely pretty mediocre. A- at most, but it dropping back to B+ seems more reasonable.

Regarding hazard removers, I feel pelipper deserves some spotlight. Right now, hazard removers are certainly limited but then we have pelipper which thanks to its typing and pretty good bulk without relying on something like eviolite (the closest defogger physically bulky as gligar without an eviolite) let pelipper be a pretty good fighting type check and the fact that it can threaten rhyperior and plenty of SR setters directly with scald is simply wonderful. Ill love some discussion on this but if I need to post a nom, C+ seems like a safe start.

Regarding other noms I agree:

Bronzong to B/B-: The thing is used to check are long gone. Not that premier problem solver anymore against bunch of threats, and with plenty of threatening fighting type + trapper combo, it can struggle to stay alive.

 

[Molk]

in general: stop proposing for golbat to move up, it loses to nearly every relevant sr user; that's awful, and i can think of 4 other mons i'd rather use for hazard removal over it

srsly, if anything golbat should move down

Done, as i said over irc i was kind of ehhh on moving it in the first place :x

 

[Cowtao]

i keep thinking with all of these viability changes that

what the hell is going to happen to our picture frames? Like half of the pokemon are gonna be gone prtty soon. ;;;;

 

[boltsandbombers]

We'll just get new art, there's a ton of great artists here (as shown below !_!)

But if the two suspects do leave, we may need to consider other Pokemon that deserve S rank because I doubt that the entire tier will revolve around Cresselia, and it seems relatively illogical to have only one S rank pokemon.

 

[Kurona]

When do I get my art badge?

 

[Ajna]

We'll just get new art, there's a ton of great artists here :P

But if the two suspects do leave, we may need to consider other Pokemon that deserve S rank because I doubt that the entire tier will revolve around Cresselia, and it seems relatively illogical to have only one S rank pokemon.

I would think that Meloetta and Cobalion would move up. Maybe even something like Mega Glalie.

 

[SketchUp]

I don't think it is smart to theorymon possible S ranks if Moltres and Pangoro get banned. The metagame will change without them (though they are not banned yet / don't get banned anyways) but there is no reason to look at the possible changes just yet.

 

[Kurona]

Honestly it's pointless to theorymon regardless; as we should be looking at the current metagame as it is. So just look at what's here and not what's... not.

 

[Kurona]

Extremely nitpicky, but Abomasnow, Audino and Banette all have "Mega" with no capital M, while Glalie, Camerupt and Steelix all have a capital M in "Mega".
Also, you misspelled "Shitmonchan".

 

[Scienceandreligion]

I'd like to recommend Dugtrio to drop to B rank. Dugtrio is by no means a bad Pokemon - it does fulfill a distinct niche in trapping certain threats that prevent offensive sweepers from smashing through a team. However, the fact of the matter is that in a metagame with prominent threats such as Pangoro and Moltres the amount of relevant and common steel type Pokemon for Dugtrio to trap is down. And some that are prominent such as Mega-Steelix and Doublade are actually threats to Dugtrio unless weakened, thus making them difficult to trap if the opponent uses them cautiously and safely. Dugtrio is flat out suboptimal in games that the threatening Pokemon aren't present as well - it can act as a revenge killer, but in this metagame a dedicated revenge killer spot generally needs more oomph to be effective (Dugtrios only really threatening move coming off of base 80 attack is earthquake). Dugtrio isn't doing anything wrong, there just is too little to trap. Most of the B+ Pokemon have more general utility than situational use. However, dropping below B I would be also against given that Dugtrio can be potent in the right situation.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'd like the recommend Rotom-C for A- rank. Having access to volt switch gives it considerable utility from the outset, but access to leaf storm and the situational trick/will-o-wisp really allow for it to act as an effective pivot for offensive teams to scare out threats. Having a strong grass type stab really terrifies Pokemon that are commonly used as volt switch absorbers - ground types in the tier (and Jolteon) really can't take leaf storm well. Not to mention that (aside from the current suspects of Pangoro and Moltres) set-up sweepers (from my experience) are especially effective in RU right now and hate Trick. Will-o-Wisp is definitely not as good as the aforementioned moves on the often choiced Rotom-C, but Pokemon like assault vest Escavelier and SD Virizion really don't like it, so it can be a viable option for a team in situational circumstances. With these options in an overall offensively oriented metagame, Rotom-C has the capacity to really wear down teams and once in has the ability to almost guarantee momentum for the next turn or make the opponent make a risky switch to a ground type/Jolteon. I think these advantages really allow it to outweigh the cons it experiences as a result of it's frailty, which admittedly does make it a bit hard to switch in.

 

[lighthouses]

I don't think dugtrio should drop, if anything its even more viable now that the bronzong usage is dropping.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Seriously why is Exploud still B+ Rank: Exploud has a shit typing, RU is getting more & more fighting type based, and these one are kinda fast, so Exploud suffers from less & less switch ins than before, it has a mediocre bulk, a mediocre bulk, and if it isn't locked on Boomburst, forcing him to switch is as easy as taking a nap.

Uxie for B-: The support abilities of Uxie are insane, with its good bulk & very decent speed, it can easily set up rocks, any kind of weather or even TR. The access to Memento offers the possibility of safely setting up a threat like Slurpuff, or U-Turn for pure momentum.

 

[Empress]

May be a controversial nomination, but... Alomomola for S
This thing singlehandedly makes offensive teams damn near unviable in RU. Unlike its wall sibling Cresselia, Mola's godly Water-typing and astronomical bulk on top of it makes it essentially impossible to take down. Anything that can't hit this thing super effectively can't wallbreak it at all, and have fun using Mola as setup bait when it can put a timer on you with Toxic or Scald. A single Scald burn will lose the game for you, I can guarantee that. Yes, Mola has problems in the fact that it's passive, but all it has to do is switch. The Water-type has such amazing synergy that Mola will destroy momentum immediately as it enters the battlefield and switches out to check/counter your sweeper. This thing is as suspect worthy, if not more so, than Cress.
(A bit tired atm; I'll expand on this tomorrow if need be.)

Edit: Rescinding the nomination.

 

[Natural Talent]

May be a controversial nomination, but... Alomomola for S
This thing singlehandedly makes offensive teams damn near unviable in RU. Unlike its wall sibling Cresselia, Mola's godly Water-typing and astronomical bulk on top of it makes it essentially impossible to take down. Anything that can't hit this thing super effectively can't wallbreak it at all, and have fun using Mola as setup bait when it can put a timer on you with Toxic or Scald. A single Scald burn will lose the game for you, I can guarantee that. Yes, Mola has problems in the fact that it's passive, but all it has to do is switch. The Water-type has such amazing synergy that Mola will destroy momentum immediately as it enters the battlefield and switches out to check/counter your sweeper. This thing is as suspect worthy, if not more so, than Cress.
(A bit tired atm; I'll expand on this tomorrow if need be.)

nah, as of now there are some many things that can set up on it. that will always set it back. it's just a fat thing chillin but on a lot of teams there will be a set up sweeper that sets up on mola. cress has a lot of offensive presence unlike mola. to beat some physical wall breakers it has to rely on burns. The only roles it fulfills well is being a wish passer and it's ok on stall. It being those 2 things mean it isn't meta defining seeing as it has no ofensive presence. all the things that have been S do damage to most mons in the Meta that are relevant. It comes in and everyone knows what it does which is toxic thins and burn things with scald. Just go straight out to your counter being a steel type cleric or just go into the set up sweeper and hope for no scald burns or that it doesn't toxic you. there isn't really much to say besides it being set up bait for the entire tier.

 

[cacturne]

Well to break up this neverending durant discussion I would like to nominate Escavalier to drop to A- or B+. I think it is safe to say that the main reason Escav was ranked so high was its ability to check Dragalge and Mega Sceptile as well as Mega Pidgeot to a lesser extent, as well as checking CM psychics and supporting Pokemon like Pidgeot and Sceptile well. Now that Mega Sceptile, Pidgeot, and Dragalge are gone, it has lost a huge part of its niche. It still does an amazing job as a pursuit trapper and check to CM psychics, but its low speed and the fact that it is extremely easy to prey on with all the fighting types that have gotten much better with this past shift lead me to believe Escav doesn't cut it as an A rank mon anymore.

renomming b/c it got lost in a big debate and i think it's still relevant/needs to happen

 

[Gary]

I know Mega Steelix just got bumped up to A, but I really think it should bump up to A+. Much like Rhyperior, its ability to keep SR up on the field is insane thanks to its incredible bulk, great defensive typing, and strong offensive presence. Its monstrous physical bulk and typing allows it to check a huge portion of the metagame, such as Druddigon, Mega Aboma, Mega Glalie, Escav, Drapion, Slurpuff, Kabutops, Doublade, Tyrantrum, Jolteon, etc etc list goes on. Even the physical attackers that can deal with Mega Steelix usually fail to OHKO it at full health, so in some situations Mega Steelix can still take a hit and OHKO them back if need be. Its last move slot is also pretty expendable as you can run shit like Stone Edge to fuck Moltres on the switch or Toxic/Roar to keep stuff like CM Cress from setting up on you as well as luring gay stuff like Alo and King.

Mega Lix is also a cool sweeper with Curse, as it is able to boost up its already insanely high defense to ludicrous heights while making it stronger. Again, its typing and defensive stats lets it set up on a lot of shit, and after a few boosts the only real efficient way to deal with Mega Steelix is to burn it or hit it with a strong special attack. It's cool how it can use CM Cress as complete set up fodder, seeing as how Cress can do absolutely nothing to it and Moonblast isn't going to be doing jack to it even at like +4. I'm not gonna be that guy and post a fuck ton of calcs justifying its strength and bulk, but just take my word for it lol.

All in all Mega Lix is a fantastic Mega for its ability to fit very well on bulky offense as well as balance. Although there are other good Megas in the tier such as Mega Camel, Glalie, and Aboma, I don't think really it faces much competition from them. Its ability to check a large portion of the tier while being a very durable offensive SRer as well as a solid Curse Pokemon makes me feel like it would fit very well in A+ rank along with Rhyperior. Both of them share very similar roles and attributes, but Mega Steelix's arguably better defensive typing and higher bulk makes it just as good of a fit on some teams as Rhyperior, if not better in some cases. One of the biggest advantages Mega Steelix has is that unlike Rhyperior, it isn't crippled with a nasty 4x weakness, so it doesn't have to worry about random coverage moves nearly as much as Rhyperior (HP Water Jolteon LOL) Maybe we can wait to discuss this more until the suspect test ends (any ban will make Mega Steelix better especially Moltres) but I still think Mega Steelix is on par with many of the A+ Pokemon even with Moltres and Pangoro in the tier.

 

[tehy]

+1 do agree

Sr Megalix also lures in and toxics a lot of really fun shit like alomo and slowking (yes, toxic'ing a regenerator matters, like, way more than you'd think).

Curse Megalix beats a lot of other wincons and well-played gets like 2 kills vs offense (unless tres unfortunately) and craps on stall (and to a lesser extent, balance)

i made all these and above points a page or 2 ago and it's still true, megalix kicks incalculable amounts of ass, a+ plz