^ Break Break is a completely horrible choice because a resisted Outrage is stronger than a Brick Break to Skarmory. There is no reason to ever use Brick Break over Fire Blast because the only thing Common in OU that it hits that harder than it's other 3 moves is Tyranitar which dies to Earthquake anyway. Now if you really want a third physical move go for Fire fang but really they both suck in comparison to Fire Blast.
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Salamence (Moxie + Update)
- Thread starter AccidentalGreed
- Start date
Wrong, Balloon Heatran is immune to Fire Blast and EQ (with the balloon intact) and resists Fire Blast while weak to Brick Break. But now I'm nitpicking.
Brick Break is more of a move to hit something like Ferrothorn with when it comes in predicting an Outrage. And again, I raise the point of Screens - offensive teams can't exactly stall them out, and Screens can allow a potentially game-breaking Pokemon to set up and sweep. Brick Break not only bypasses but eliminates them, possibly ending said sweep then and there.
Why no Special DD? It rips holes and surprises, and it's even better with the Moxie boosts from the special KO's.
Salamence@Life Orb/White Herb
4 Atk/252 Spa/252 Spe
Rash, Moxie
-Dragon Dance
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Blast
Only problem is Heatran....there's ways to get past that though
Salamence@Life Orb/White Herb
4 Atk/252 Spa/252 Spe
Rash, Moxie
-Dragon Dance
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Blast
Only problem is Heatran....there's ways to get past that though
As someone who uses this extensively, the best EV spread is 94Atk/216Sp.atk/200Speed
Also, you literally need Outrage on this set, i.e no Moxie. After a DD, with no investment the Dragon Claw is really weak. Intimidate provides more opportunties to switch in +spam draco meteor.
It is very useful because you can feign being a mixmence (i.e spam Draco Meteor) and when the time is right, DD up, eliminate the physical wall, and sweep. Intimidate is really beneficial here-you get to switch in more often and wreck the opponent's team. I like it (you might remember I put it forward in OU's CCAT), but obviously it needs QC's approval.
I personally use DD Salamence with Moxie. My experience with it has leaved me with a couple of opinions. First, I have tested both Fire Fang and Fire Blast, and Fire Blast is the better move by far. Also, Lum Berry is much more useful than Life Orb. Due to Mence taking ~60% from banded Scizor, Salamence needs to conserve its health. Sometimes, that extra DD against a status inducer ends the game. Normally when Salamence hits 2 DD's, it's gg unless opponent has lots of priority. Also, I'd like to support your mention of Jirachi in tandem with Mence. I use one as well, and the paralyze support is wonderful for a sweep. The Wish support it grants should also be mentioned, in case loose priority users are on the foe's team. All in all, a great update to the Salamence page and covers all viable Salamence sets.
I've been using scarf and I'm sure it's the best set, wrecking everything and really opening up sweeps for other pokes as nobody wants to give a moxie boost so it softens everything pretty much As a lot of switches will happen so nothing dies, so make sure hazards are listed as a biggie. Also fire blast is really situational, when you need to take out a ferrothorn, you will never sweep with it so flamethrower is a better option.
Apologies for being invisible for almost a week, since I was on Christmas Vacation mode, but I'm in school now so I'll focus on stuff (it's funny, since school is supposed to distract me from C&C) :)
Couple of things.
Couple of things.
- Brick Break. Might as well use Dragonite for that, but sure, I could put it in AC because there's so few uses of it.
- I have no opinion of Mixed Dragon Dance since I have no experience. I'm also reluctant to try it because of Seven Deadly Sin's reasons against it, though these arguments were made before major metagame changes. The main appeal of Salamence is its unpredictability, so I'm not sure playing Hannah Montana will make Salamence anymore effective. Feel free to change my mind.
- Reminder: PO updated, so Outrage + Moxie Salamence is now available. I shall do extensive testing for the next couple of weeks.
The beauty of Mixed DD is that it can act as a wall-breaker (except for Heatran) early-game, and turn into a cleaner late-game, thanks to Dragon Dance. I think it's worth a test-drive. It's Attack is lacking, back after a Dragon Dance + Life Orb boost, I doubt it matters.
Been using Scarfed Moxiemence since the update. I named mine Snowball. :D
Seriously, you get any Steels/obvious scarfers like Terrakion out of the way early, and you have a very easy sweep so long as the confusion hax gods smile upon you.
Seriously, you get any Steels/obvious scarfers like Terrakion out of the way early, and you have a very easy sweep so long as the confusion hax gods smile upon you.
Yep, it's a pretty OP set, the imo, I find it much better than the Dragon Dance set. Regardless, people would probably disagree with me, so I'm simply moving it up below the Classic MixMence because it's so good of an offensive Pokemon that decimates anything that would usually outrun it.
I'd also like to apply the above information and this post to discuss Mixed MoxieMence (aka New MixMence in the OP): now that I've playtested Salamence, I find that Chou was right. New Mixed MoxieMence may be quite weak to a number of things, such as things that hit Salamence before it hits them (which is common like Scarf Rotom-W, Scizor BP, Latias, Landorus...), passive damage (being Roost-less is suffering), and a generally lack of OHKO power against some dedicated walls. I can see it being extremely effective against defensive teams, but the question is: does this warrant its own set just because of Moxie?
Keep in mind that this only has one check, so there's still much to see. I'll playtest NewMence for solid results.
EDIT: I hate Naive / Jolly on ScarfMence.
I'd also like to apply the above information and this post to discuss Mixed MoxieMence (aka New MixMence in the OP): now that I've playtested Salamence, I find that Chou was right. New Mixed MoxieMence may be quite weak to a number of things, such as things that hit Salamence before it hits them (which is common like Scarf Rotom-W, Scizor BP, Latias, Landorus...), passive damage (being Roost-less is suffering), and a generally lack of OHKO power against some dedicated walls. I can see it being extremely effective against defensive teams, but the question is: does this warrant its own set just because of Moxie?
Keep in mind that this only has one check, so there's still much to see. I'll playtest NewMence for solid results.
EDIT: I hate Naive / Jolly on ScarfMence.
I've been playing with a faster new mixmence (lum berry 68 atk / 188 satk / 252 spe naive) and it makes a solid late-game cleaner against defensive teams, but the lack of initial power means that its difficult to get the sweep started, and despite the speed, its still so easily outsped...
Really? I run mine Jolly and it works fantastically. I mean, the vast majority of the time I don't even send it out until Steels are gone, walls are softened, and I can send it in on the revenge to start a Moxie Outrage sweep, but I have on occasion sent it in against stuff like Scarftoed's Hydro Pump to absorb a hit.
remember intimidate on new mix D:
Chou Toshio said:
Sure thing, but there's no preferential ability for MixMence.
Perhaps it's just me having a few bad plays, but I feel like the extra power is required at the times I need it most. The last time I attempted to use the Jolly/Naive nature, I missed a KO on Specs Politoed by a few percentage points, and Salamence got booted as a result. Outspeeding certain targets isn't even guaranteed (I'm referring to tying with opposing Salamence and other odd base 100 Pokemon. The only thing worth tying with is Volcarona). A neutral nature + Choice Scarf allows Salamence to outrun pretty much everything it needs to. Of course, I can see the obvious merit in Naive/Jolly, so they won't go without mention.
Why is Outrage slashed on Classic though? I tend to think of Outrage for more breaking or Roost for an extended plan being the biggest difference between the two mixed sets frankly, with speed/power facilitating those respective strategies. Of course any mix between the two can and will work, but Rash/Roost and Naive/Outrage are the two "fundamental" patterns around which others are built off/modified from.
I kinda assumed Outrage would be a main option since it IS slashed on the Salamence analysis as it is on-site now. Since Roost is the main focus of the Classic set (not to mention New MixMence), I think it's safe to say that Outrage is an inferior option on the set, so I'll de-slash it.
Also, due to relatively good results (and Alphatron beating me at my own game with his own set), New MixMence stays after all.
Also, due to relatively good results (and Alphatron beating me at my own game with his own set), New MixMence stays after all.
Speaking of Adamant nature, I feel like DDMence is better off with Adamant / Naughty. Most Scarfers (other than Scarf Jirachi) are either slower (Scarf Rotom-W / Scarf Modest Hydreigon) or faster (Scarf Landorus / Scarf Terrakion), regardless of Adamant or Jolly. Once Salamence gets the Dragon Dance, it doesn't need to worry about other base 100 Speed mon that lacks the speed boost. I just don't find the + Speed nature TOO useful on DDMence, whose hard to outrun after a Dragon Dance anyways.
That's a good point. There's only a few things of note in the base 90 to 99 range that are commonly +1 out the gate, like Scarf Damanitan or Speed Boost/Protect Sharpedo and Yanmega.
...Nevermind.
However, Scarf Genesect is going to be stupidly popular. Once he's released, another update removing any mention of Adamant and Naughty natures is probably in order.
...Nevermind.
However, Scarf Genesect is going to be stupidly popular. Once he's released, another update removing any mention of Adamant and Naughty natures is probably in order.
Sure.
To avoid major slashitis, I'll just make a big mention of the Speed-boosting natures in the AC, since positive-natured Hydreigon and Darmanitan are still threats to watch out for. In case anyone was wondering, the Naive/Jolly natures were the main choices last generation because people used Jolly Scarf Jirachi and Flygon.
The final choice is up to QC though.
To avoid major slashitis, I'll just make a big mention of the Speed-boosting natures in the AC, since positive-natured Hydreigon and Darmanitan are still threats to watch out for. In case anyone was wondering, the Naive/Jolly natures were the main choices last generation because people used Jolly Scarf Jirachi and Flygon.
The final choice is up to QC though.
