sandslash has a good physical bulk he can easy use rapid spin, it isn't bad.
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Sandslash
- Thread starter Maestro Arena
- Start date
tehy
Banned deucer.
Stone edge is a little more powerful, but it's got two problems against something like skarmory-it'll miss, and eventually you WILL run out.
As for night slash, exca has shadow claw, and it's not much better than exca as an offensive spinner, since it has much lower speed and power.
The point is not to compare which is better, it's to analyze how Sandslash can, for the most part, cover Excadrill's role in OU since they are rather similar.
I think a very important aspect to consider about Sandslash's stepping into Exca's shoes is that he isn't weak to Fighting or Ground, which helps with his physical bulk for switching in and generally taking hits.
I think a very important aspect to consider about Sandslash's stepping into Exca's shoes is that he isn't weak to Fighting or Ground, which helps with his physical bulk for switching in and generally taking hits.
Well Sandslash has approximately 30% better bulk in virtue of its defensive stats. Ground / Steel is a much better defensive typing than pure Ground, imo, providing some very nifty resistances. For instance, Excadrill has little to fear from Skarmory's Brave Bird, and it could set up on SubCM Latias. Excadrill has a quad rock resist and is immune to Toxic Spikes. Excadrill also takes priorities much better than Sandslash, being resistant to ExtremeSpeed, Sucker Punch, Bullet Punch, and neutral to Ice Shard.
There's also the Speed issue - Adamant Sandslash is slower than a base Spe 90 mon with a + Spe nature. Thankfully, that still makes it faster than Scarf Rotom-W, but there are plenty of Scarfers to check Sandslash, unlike Excadrill's case.
I'd say Sandslash can definitely fit Excadrill role as a Sand Sweeper, since it does possess great Speed, power, and coverage. It also has Rapid Spin, which is useful. However, it will most definitely be not a dominant force as Excadrill - I wouldn't be surprised if Sand Rush Sandslash couldn't make the OU cutoff.
I think Sandslash NEEDS Life Orb if it wants to sweep. Unlike Excadrill, it needs all the power it can get.
There's also the Speed issue - Adamant Sandslash is slower than a base Spe 90 mon with a + Spe nature. Thankfully, that still makes it faster than Scarf Rotom-W, but there are plenty of Scarfers to check Sandslash, unlike Excadrill's case.
I'd say Sandslash can definitely fit Excadrill role as a Sand Sweeper, since it does possess great Speed, power, and coverage. It also has Rapid Spin, which is useful. However, it will most definitely be not a dominant force as Excadrill - I wouldn't be surprised if Sand Rush Sandslash couldn't make the OU cutoff.
I think Sandslash NEEDS Life Orb if it wants to sweep. Unlike Excadrill, it needs all the power it can get.
Sandslash can use Life Orb much more easily anyway. Excadrill didn't use Life Orb a lot because it had to run Air Ballon to avoid the liability of taking a Super-effective Earthquake/Ground attack from the likes of other Excadrill and Gliscor. It allowed him to setup easier too. Sandslash doesn't have that liability due to his lack of Steel typing.
Does Sandslash have the ability to outspeed Scarf Terrakion with a Jolly Nature? I could definitely see it as a great switch in to Terrakion and would definitely add to his presence in OU and lessen Terrakion's.
i dont get how adamant sandslash(base 65 speed) is slower then a + spe base 90 but faster then scarf rotom.
Sandslash stats : 75/100/110/45/55/65
With a Adamant nature , 252 evs in spe he gets 229 speed ( in sandstorm 458).
A base 90 speed pokemon with a + nature and 252 ev's in speed , gets 306 speed ( thats 459 with a scarf).
With a Jolly nature and 252 ev's in speed he gets 251 speed ( in sandstorm 502)
A base 105 speed pokemon with a + nature and 252 ev's in speed, gets 339 speed ( 508,5 with a scarf).
The pokemon that linger between 90 and 105 base speed in OU are : Mienshao , landorus, celebi , jirachi, ninetailes,salamence,tentacruel,volcarona,hydreigon,haxorus and lucario. Only mienshao gets 105 base speed clean , tough he is often not scarfed.
The only pokes that commonly carry scarfs among them are :
Landorus : With a scarf he often carries earthquake,uturn,stone edge and hp ice. From this set eq and hpice are the most dangerous. His eq does 50.5% - 59.8% against a 252 atk/spe sandslash with a neutral nature. His hp ice does 63.2% - 74.9%.( assuming a speed+ nature and a neutral nature for the hidden power)
Jirachi : With a scarf he often carries elemental punches and iron head. Iron head deals 35.1% - 41.2%. Ice punch deals 43.3% - 51.5% ( assuming a jolly nature)
Haxorus : If he has a rivalry boost, random things like x-scissor 2ko sandslash. Outrage deals 88.7% - 104.8% with a adamant nature ( without a rivarly boost)
Hydreigon : every special attack deals hefty damage, dracometeor and surf are clean ko's. Dark pulse deals 81.5% - 96.6% with a modest nature ( tough this would mean he wont be outspeeding you)
Looking at this , its wise to run a jolly nature to outspeed above threats. Running additional bulk is also very advisable, because it allows him to turn certian 2kos in 3kos and 1kos in 2kos.
52 hp ev's are required to survive jirachis ice punch twice.
A spread of 128 HP/252 ATK/68 DEF/60 SPEED with a jolly nature sets it at 323hp/299atk/273def/199spe. The speed allows him to outrun everything in OU except deoxys-S( in ss ofc) while maintaining a lot of physical bulk. It makes Landorus EQ a 2ko, haxorus random attacks 3ko's and if he gets the rivalrly boost in, his outrage wont ko sandslash anymore. It also allows sandslash to take random hits better, like ice beams from vaporeon ( 73.7% - 87.3%) or a powerwhip from ferrothorn with no atk ev's (70.6% - 83.6%) allowing you to sword dance once more if they came in on your first SD. Last but not least, always run a female sandslash, this will avoid a lot of troubles with haxorus looking at those numbers.
With a Adamant nature , 252 evs in spe he gets 229 speed ( in sandstorm 458).
A base 90 speed pokemon with a + nature and 252 ev's in speed , gets 306 speed ( thats 459 with a scarf).
With a Jolly nature and 252 ev's in speed he gets 251 speed ( in sandstorm 502)
A base 105 speed pokemon with a + nature and 252 ev's in speed, gets 339 speed ( 508,5 with a scarf).
The pokemon that linger between 90 and 105 base speed in OU are : Mienshao , landorus, celebi , jirachi, ninetailes,salamence,tentacruel,volcarona,hydreigon,haxorus and lucario. Only mienshao gets 105 base speed clean , tough he is often not scarfed.
The only pokes that commonly carry scarfs among them are :
Landorus : With a scarf he often carries earthquake,uturn,stone edge and hp ice. From this set eq and hpice are the most dangerous. His eq does 50.5% - 59.8% against a 252 atk/spe sandslash with a neutral nature. His hp ice does 63.2% - 74.9%.( assuming a speed+ nature and a neutral nature for the hidden power)
Jirachi : With a scarf he often carries elemental punches and iron head. Iron head deals 35.1% - 41.2%. Ice punch deals 43.3% - 51.5% ( assuming a jolly nature)
Haxorus : If he has a rivalry boost, random things like x-scissor 2ko sandslash. Outrage deals 88.7% - 104.8% with a adamant nature ( without a rivarly boost)
Hydreigon : every special attack deals hefty damage, dracometeor and surf are clean ko's. Dark pulse deals 81.5% - 96.6% with a modest nature ( tough this would mean he wont be outspeeding you)
Looking at this , its wise to run a jolly nature to outspeed above threats. Running additional bulk is also very advisable, because it allows him to turn certian 2kos in 3kos and 1kos in 2kos.
52 hp ev's are required to survive jirachis ice punch twice.
A spread of 128 HP/252 ATK/68 DEF/60 SPEED with a jolly nature sets it at 323hp/299atk/273def/199spe. The speed allows him to outrun everything in OU except deoxys-S( in ss ofc) while maintaining a lot of physical bulk. It makes Landorus EQ a 2ko, haxorus random attacks 3ko's and if he gets the rivalrly boost in, his outrage wont ko sandslash anymore. It also allows sandslash to take random hits better, like ice beams from vaporeon ( 73.7% - 87.3%) or a powerwhip from ferrothorn with no atk ev's (70.6% - 83.6%) allowing you to sword dance once more if they came in on your first SD. Last but not least, always run a female sandslash, this will avoid a lot of troubles with haxorus looking at those numbers.
Once Sand Rush is released, I dont think it will take Excadrill's place, but it definately will be viable. As said above, a Jolly nature is a must, which sucks because he need all the power he can get.
Sandslash is pretty cool. With Excadrill out in Ubers, Sandslash may be used in OU a lot more often.
Also, Sandslash can use it's large defence stat to get several boosts, unlike Excadrill, who can boost on the switch, but then has to attack or it will be KO'd by any offensive counter. "coughConkledurrcough"
Also, Sandslash can use it's large defence stat to get several boosts, unlike Excadrill, who can boost on the switch, but then has to attack or it will be KO'd by any offensive counter. "coughConkledurrcough"
I dunno, I've true sandslash and found it to be disappointing. I find stoutland to simply be better in almost every way (Aside from access to rapid spin and stealth rock) I just can't think of a reason to use sandslash over something like landorus...
Stoutland is weak against Mach Punch ... But he's better than Sandslash ;)
Sandslash was pretty "meh" when I used it. Even at +2, it still wasn't strong enough to take out anything with bulk and it's dead weight if its weather isn't up. The difference between 100 Base Attack and 135 Base Attack is so significant, I have trouble even comparing it to Excadrill, who (as Pocket mentioned) also has better typing with which to set up. I don't really think it's worth running unless you need a fast spinner. Stoutland has better coverage as a Sand Rush abuser (and doesn't have problems with fast Scarfers), and Landorus-I/RP Landorus-T are all-around better as late-game cleaners. I kind of hope my assessment is wrong though...I like SandSlash a lot :(
BANDED Adamant max attack ice shard on a 0 investment sandslash
68.7% - 81.1%
I'm not going to bother running calcs on landorus...pretty sure we all know it will die
Just sayin, sandslash doesn't have trouble with any of the priority attackers. However, it does indeed sacrifice power to do that :/ can't get as many ohkos at +4 as I'd like. *shrugs* I guess it's all up to preference
From Mamoswine, I'm assuming? Anyways, while there's no doubt that Sanslash has less trouble with priority, it doesn't make a huge difference in my book since so many things can just take a +2 hit and KO back anyways, assuming you Swords Dance on a forced switch. Not much can switch into Landorus' Sand Force EQ and expect to come out on top.
I'm sure people have had success with him, but I still say he's outclassed as a sweeper. Good, but outclassed.
It's low base attack is certainly a problem, but if you're using something like spike-stacking and/or VoltTurn, the residual damage goes a long way to making up for it. And even though Sandslash doesn't break through physical walls well at all, it can still put pressure on defensive teams with it's ability to spin offensively and beat Jellicent. Since stall obviously relies heavily on entry hazards, this is a great boon for offensive sand teams. And as Emperor said, it doesn't worry about priority attacks too much, so offensive teams don't have much against Sandslash either. Fast scarfers are a problem, but an easily manageable one. Latios is already taken care of by Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, the premier OU Spiker, beats Starmie, and something like Slowbro handles Terrakion.
I remember on a couple PO Servers Sandslash DW ability wasn't regulated to the DW Tier even though it was unreleased at the time. After a Swords Dance, Sandslash is a very deadly sweeper, and racked me a couple 5-0's. Aside from sweeper, Sandslash is without a doubt the best Spinner to use in Sand as he's the fastest. He can utilize a set similar to Donphans With SR/RS/EQ/Filler only he'll be doing it faster.
yeah that's mamo. I've also been hit by pretty much every other priority user. Most shots usually do about half and then leftovers heals me over so I can take another hit.
The comment on volt-turn/spikes support is defintely true. Hazard support makes a huge difference for Sandslash since it often has trouble pushing over a lot of defensive walls.
Only poke I'm really worried about right now is brongzong but I thankfully haven't run into any yet
As a sweeper, Sandslash is pretty average, but it fills Excadrill's offensive spinner role very well. I have little trouble getting it in on support stuff (Forretress, weakened Donphan, Heatran using SR, some Mew) and using SD, then promptly koing their spin blocker (Jellicent dies to +2 Ground Gem EQ, Gengar dies to Stone Edge). It's also effective at putting pressure on stuff that needs to set-up, since it'll outspeed everything at +1 that has under 105 Speed, and nothing above that boosts their speed anyway. It can only spin once or twice, usually, but it fits well with an offensive team, which lets you keep the opponent from setting up again.
I tried Sandslash as a sweeper, and I must say it's not exactly the best Pokemon for the job. I've had more success with Lucario, Terrakion, and Landorus, among others. However, as an offensive spinner, Sandslash excels. You can KO the spinblocker with the appropriate boosted attack, then spin. Basically the same concept as Excadrill, but it works well there. However, if you want to use it to outright sweep, you're probably better off using one of the Pokemon I mentioned earlier.
Sandslash makes for a very interesting alternative to Donphan on Sun teams. Both provide access to SR and Rapid Spin, but in exchange less power and bulk, you get a Pokemon who has the capability of outrunning base 110's in opposing Sand with minimal speed investment of 40 Spe EV's. Most importantly he can outspeed Terrakion and Lati@s in the Sand which are often used as offensive pieces for Sand teams. Still 2HKO's Terrakion even without investment. I think if someone is using offensive Donphan on a sun team they should definitely look into incorporating LO Sandslash on their team. Just some food for thought.
This is very very interesting, I should note that this can also work on rain teams aswell. Its not exactly like using Kingdra to punish rain either because sandslash can actually do regular useful stuff outside of the sand like as said, rocks and hazards. Something to definitely consider if and when placing Donphan or any spinner on a team.
I actually have had a lot of trouble finding a good spinner for my Sun team, and my current Stealth Rock setter isn't doing its job particularly well. This (at least on paper) looks like it fills both of those roles quite well.