Metagame Scalemons

[Kris]

First, I just want to point out that the OP is incorrect about Fomantis learning Superpower (under the "Contrary Users" header).

Second, I don't care too much about this at the end of the day, but I see little reason for DeepSeaScale to be banned, especially because non-HP scaling means Clamperl's base HP lets its defenses down even more. Add this to the fact that it has no reliable recovery and DSS Clamperl would not be a broken wall by any means (not with threats like Abra anyway), and it would probably prefer Tank/Set-up sets where the extra Special bulk facilitates Shell Smash set-up (see calcs). In these obviously more viable roles, DSS would allow it to check some top sweepers and potentially counter-sweep, but because it comes at the cost using LO (which is mostly better anyway), Sash, or even White Herb as well as necessitating some bulk investment for checking the biggest sweepers, it wouldn't nearly be overpowered/overcentralizing imo (and I am interpreting "all viable signature items are banned" as "all overcentralizing signature items are banned", maybe my interpretation on this 'ruling' is wrong here).

Clamperl @ Deep Sea Scale
Timid/Hasty Nature
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 132 HP / 132 SpA / 240 Spe (The HP and SpA investment are slightly variable between each other but 240 Spe is all you need to outspeed the unboosted threats it can actually take on imo)
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass/Waterfall

Exemplary Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Energy Ball vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 187-221 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Clamperl Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Abra: 213-252 (111.5 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+2 Max Speed Clamperl still fails to outspeed this and can only OHKO with Waterfall requiring you to run mixed SS Clamperl, which can limit it otherwise)

252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 179-213 (73.3 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 363-427 (180.5 - 212.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Clamperl: 207-243 (84.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 318-375 (112.3 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Vulpix-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 102-120 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Vulpix-Alola: 208-246 (95.8 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Staryu Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 127-151 (52 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Staryu: 244-288 (121.3 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


obv Clef tho:
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


So yeah despite these calcs, this mon is still balanced with DSS, so unban it pls thenk you :D

Disclaimer: I haven't played much on the actual ladder yet, so I could be wrong in this judgment.

I'm not unbanning it. I guess I should be clearer next time when I say all signature items are banned (or more vague?). I wasn't too sure how to announce the ban correctly because people could've interpreted it as Mega Stones being banned too. I guess, what really makes sense is all viable (yes, viable, as viable does not mean overcentralizing. It means what the definition of viable, as I used it, interprets the word as), non-Uber, Pokemon-specific items, barring Signature Z-Crystals and Mega Stones, are banned. Deep Sea Scale is basically a better Assault Vest (and, arguably, a better Eviolite) because it both allows Clamperl to use status moves and doubles Clamperl's decent Special Defense stat, which is still very lethal on top the select calcs you posted.

This leads me to my next topic:

Carvanha is banned

​

For the three days that the Scalemons ladder has been on PS!, Carvanha has proven to be extremely potent at breaking through basically anything. with such high base 192 Attack, any hit from Carvanha can dent almost any Pokemon with the raw power it provides. While in the perspective of Scalemons Speed tiers, Carvanha appears to have a somewhat low base Speed stat of just 138; however, access to Speed Boost and more niche options like Aqua Jet are commonly used to mitigate this. On paper, Carvanha also looks like it suffers from frail defenses bolstered by a poor typing; however, this is somewhat mitigated when Cravanha when Carvanha opts to run Aqua Jet or when Carvanha is paired up with bulkier teammates.

Expect more bans to come soon.

-------------------​

I would like to ask everyone to participate in helping with the development of the Viability Rankings. It was conducted basically entirely off of theorymonning from just seeing every Pokemon's stats and a lot of Pokemon were obviously left out. That being said, volcanionisgood I will add Xerneas to the VR.

 

[Adrian Marin]

The name "Pyukumuku" strikes fear into the hearts of many. Its feats are legendary. Its annoyingness, even more so. Pyukumuku is a professional provocateur, and, for this reason, it deserves all the respect in the world, just like the great Chansey, Alomomola and many others. However, Pyukumuku isn't exactly the most widely used Pokemon in standard play. For better or worse, it has always remained a niche option for full stall teams in basically every single standard tier. Well, my friends, this is Scalemons. This is different. We shall always remember Pyukumuku's great deeds for humankind. This is Pyukumuku's great legacy.

STATS: 55 / 92 / 199 / 46 / 199 / 7
Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Taunt
- Counter
- Toxic

Pyukumuku is far, far bulkier in Scalemons. It's a testament to its terrible BST. In Scalemons, it can finally thrive as one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the metagame. There aren't many boosting sweepers that can deal with this thing. Taunt + Counter is a huge boon, which allows it to counter basically every single physical boosting sweeper. Even though Pyukumuku's spread is invested mostly in defense, it can still counter a lot of special threats, such as Calm Mind Clefable (it can't damage it, but it's almost guaranteed to successfully PP stall it.)

Do me a favor, will you? Use Pyukumuku in the ladder, use stall! We're going to turn this metagame into a stall haven!

 

[TheGreyFencer]

I made this up for my own teambuilding uses and thought I'd post it here for reference

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADYksFf-SHCfk4SEWFK2geQm9vhAybzfzjpMnY8eoDE/edit?usp=sharing

this is the calcs done out for every pokemon.

 

[Verus]

Vivillon @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance

With an 80/81/71/143/78/139 spread, Vivillon is able to make great use of quiver dance, and having a Sleep move with 91 accuracy due to Compound Eyes makes it incredibly easy to set up, which makes it worth trying out.

Chatot @ Life Orb
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Chatter
- Heat Wave
- Agility/Tailwind/Nasty Plot/Defog

Gaining the great stat spread of 76/101/70/143/65/142, Chatot is finally able to Boomburst everything that doesn't outspeed it to death. Chatter/s 100% confusion rate is potentially useful in edge cases, and Heat Wave lets it hit Steel types super effectively. The last move can be setup or utility, or you could give it a choice item and Hidden Power

 

[Verdigris8]

Behold, this unholy machination:
Mixed Azumarill without Huge Power.

Azumarill @ Leftovers / ?
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Surf
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Filler

Just a decent check to annoying Darumakas. Eats up a Flare Blitz (or even a Rock Slide, to an extent) on the switch in, then OHKOs with Surf. Aqua Jet picks up the KO on the off chance that Darumaka takes no recoil and Surf misses the kill.

Darumaka calcs

252+ Atk Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Azumarill: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Hustle Darumaka Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Azumarill Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darumaka: 270-318 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Yeah, it’s ok at switching into Darumaka, but not much else. It can take an Energy Ball from Abra pretty badly and OHKO back with Knock Off, I guess. Can’t kill Gastly tho, unless your opponent is desperate enough to switch it in.

Abra + Gastly calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Abra Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 299-354 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 280-330 (146.5 - 172.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 437-515 (108.1 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 170-202 (84.5 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Azumarill Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gastly: 169-201 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Honestly, this is a joke for the most part; I just hate dealing with Darumaka. I know Clamperl is probably better for this and Grimer-A takes care of Abra and Gastly way more effectively, I just thought that a mixed Azumarill would be funny. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TheGreyFencer]

Behold, this unholy machination:
Mixed Azumarill without Huge Power.

Azumarill @ Leftovers / ?
Ability: Thick Fat

Sap sipper could potentially give it a better matchup for Abra, Allowing it to come in, take energy ball and kill with a physical move.

 

[rsbound]

bellossom has to go
nothing can kill it once it sets up a quiver dance and subs
it will spam sap sipper and nothing can take it out

EDIT: strength sap not sap sipper oopsies

 

[Verdigris8]

Sap sipper could potentially give it a better matchup for Abra, Allowing it to come in, take energy ball and kill with a physical move.

I was considering this, but iirc it can get 2HKO’d by Daru’s FB without Thick Fat, especially if rocks are up. Sap Sipper’s defo viable tho. Waterium Z might also let it pick up some KOs with Aqua Jet in a pinch.

 

[Deijin]

I was wondering if there was any particular reason why the current formula for stat calculation is used.

I tried a different formula:

New Stat = Stat + (600 - BST) / 5

This seems to remove a lot of the ridiculously high stats that you see on things like Carvanha, Abra, and Ghastly. While making little difference to many other things. This could potentially bring a more versatile and balanced meta, but don't quote me on it. It may also allow the current uber pokemon to be a bit more competitive, as well as making the meta a bit less Hyper Offence biased.

Current Viablility Rankings Comparisons As Examples

BANNNED OR UNTESTED ////////////////////////////////

Carvanha ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 45  90  20  65  20  65] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 45 192  42 138  42 138] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 45 149  79 124  79 124] 600

Rayquaza-Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [105 180 100 180 100 115] 780
    Current New Stats: [105 132  73 132  73  84] 599
Alternative New Stats: [105 144  64 144  64  79] 600

Shedinja ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [  1  90  45  30  30  40] 236
    Current New Stats: [  1 229 114  76  76 101] 597
Alternative New Stats: [  1 162 117 102 102 112] 596

Mawile-Mega ---------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50 105 125  55  95  50] 480
    Current New Stats: [ 50 134 159  70 121  63] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 129 149  79 119  74] 600

Medicham-Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 60 100  85  80  85 100] 510
    Current New Stats: [ 60 120 102  96 102 120] 600
Alternative New Stats: [ 60 118 103  98 103 118] 600

S RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Abra ----------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 25  20  15 105  55  90] 310
    Current New Stats: [ 25  40  30 211 110 181] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 25  78  73 163 113 148] 600

Ghastly -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  35  30 100  35  80] 310
    Current New Stats: [ 30  71  61 203  71 162] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30  93  88 158  93 138] 600

A+ RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Aegislash ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 60  50 150  50 150  60] 520
    Current New Stats: [ 60  58 176  58 176  70] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 60  66 166  66 166  76] 600

Beedrill Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 65 150  40  15  80 145] 495
    Current New Stats: [ 65 186  49  18  99 180] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 65 171  61  36 101 166] 600

Bunnelby ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  36  38  32  36  57] 237
    Current New Stats: [ 38 101 107  90 101 160] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 108 110 104 108 129] 597

Meditite ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  40  55  40  55  60] 280
    Current New Stats: [ 30  91 125  91 125 136] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 104 119 104 119 124] 600

Pheromosa ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 71 137  37 137  37 151] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 71 145  39 145  39 160] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 71 143  43 143  43 157] 600

Pyukumuku ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  60 130  30 130   5] 410
    Current New Stats: [ 55  92 199  46 199   7] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 55  98 168  68 168  43] 600

Tapu Bulu ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70 130 115  85  95  75] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 70 137 121  90 100  79] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 70 136 121  91 101  81] 600

Tapu Lele ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70  85  75 130 115  95] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 70  90  79 137 121 100] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 70  91  81 136 121 101] 600

Yungoos -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 48  70  30  30  30  45] 253
    Current New Stats: [ 48 188  80  80  80 121] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 48 139  99  99  99 114] 598

A RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Darumaka ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70  90  45  15  45  50] 315
    Current New Stats: [ 70 194  97  32  97 108] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 70 147 102  72 102 107] 600

Dewpider ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  40  52  40  72  27] 269
    Current New Stats: [ 38  97 126  97 175  65] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 106 118 106 138  93] 599

Fomantis ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  55  35  50  35  35] 250
    Current New Stats: [ 40 146  93 133  93  93] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 125 105 120 105 105] 600

Grimer-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 80  80  50  40  50  25] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 80 169 106  84 106  53] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 80 135 105  95 105  80] 600

Muk-Alola ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [105 105  75  65 100  50] 500
    Current New Stats: [105 131  93  81 125  62] 597
Alternative New Stats: [105 125  95  85 120  70] 600

Smeargle ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  20  35  20  45  75] 250
    Current New Stats: [ 55  55  97  55 125 209] 596
Alternative New Stats: [ 55  90 105  90 115 145] 600

Staryu --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  45  55  70  55  85] 340
    Current New Stats: [ 30  82 101 128 101 156] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30  97 107 122 107 137] 600

Vulpix-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  41  40  50  65  65] 299
    Current New Stats: [ 38  88  86 107 139 139] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 101 100 110 125 125] 599

Zygarde-10% ---------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 54 100  71  61  85 115] 486
    Current New Stats: [ 54 126  89  77 107 145] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 54 122  93  83 107 137] 596

A- RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Clamperl ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  64  85  74  55  32] 345
    Current New Stats: [ 35 116 154 134 100  58] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 115 136 125 106  83] 600

Clefable ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 95  70  73  95  90  60] 483
    Current New Stats: [ 95  91  95 123 117  78] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 95  93  96 118 113  83] 598

Crawdaunt ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 63 120  85  90  55  55] 468
    Current New Stats: [ 63 159 112 119  72  72] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 63 146 111 116  81  81] 598

Cutiefly ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  45  40  55  40  84] 304
    Current New Stats: [ 40  95  84 116  84 178] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 104  99 114  99 143] 599

Drampa --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 78  60  85 135  91  36] 485
    Current New Stats: [ 78  76 109 173 116  46] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 78  83 108 158 114  59] 600

Passimian ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 120  90  40  60  80] 490
    Current New Stats: [100 153 115  51  76 102] 597
Alternative New Stats: [100 142 112  62  82 102] 600

Pawniard ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 45  85  70  40  40  60] 340
    Current New Stats: [ 45 159 131  75  75 112] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 45 137 122  92  92 112] 600

Pikipek -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  75  30  30  30  65] 265
    Current New Stats: [ 35 184  73  73  73 159] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 142  97  97  97 132] 600

Rattata-Alola -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  56  35  25  35  72] 253
    Current New Stats: [ 30 143  89  63  89 184] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 125 104  94 104 141] 598

Vulpix --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  41  40  50  65  65] 299
    Current New Stats: [ 38  88  86 107 139 139] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 101 100 110 125 125] 599

B+ RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Corphish ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 43  80  65  50  35  35] 308
    Current New Stats: [ 43 168 136 105  73  73] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 43 138 123 108  93  93] 598

Gliscor -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 75  95 125  45  75  95] 510
    Current New Stats: [ 75 114 150  54  90 114] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 75 113 143  63  93 113] 600

Groudon-Primal ------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 180 160 150  90  90] 770
    Current New Stats: [100 134 119 111  67  67] 598
Alternative New Stats: [100 146 126 116  56  56] 600

Kyogre-Primal -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 150  90 180 160  90] 770
    Current New Stats: [100 111  67 134 119  67] 598
Alternative New Stats: [100 116  56 146 126  56] 600

Magnemite ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 25  35  70  95  55  45] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 25  67 134 182 105  86] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 25  90 125 150 110 100] 600

Quagsire ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 95  85  85  65  65  35] 430
    Current New Stats: [ 95 128 128  97  97  52] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 95 119 119  99  99  69] 600

Reuniclus ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [110  65  75 125  85  30] 490
    Current New Stats: [110  83  96 161 109  38] 597
Alternative New Stats: [110  87  97 147 107  52] 600

Sableye-Mega --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  85 125  85 115  20] 480
    Current New Stats: [ 50 108 159 108 147  25] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 109 149 109 139  44] 600

Xerneas -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [126 131  95 131  98  99] 680
    Current New Stats: [126 112  81 112  83  84] 598
Alternative New Stats: [126 115  79 115  82  83] 600

B RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Cofagrigus ----------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 58  50 145  95 105  30] 483
    Current New Stats: [ 58  63 184 121 133  38] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 58  73 168 118 128  53] 598

Doublade ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 59 110 150  45  49  35] 448
    Current New Stats: [ 59 152 208  62  68  48] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 59 140 180  75  79  65] 598

Ferroseed ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 44  50  91  24  86  10] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 44 106 193  51 183  21] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 44 109 150  83 145  69] 600

Ferrothorn ----------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 74  94 131  54 116  20] 489
    Current New Stats: [ 74 119 166  68 147  25] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 74 116 153  76 138  42] 599

Krabby --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30 105  90  25  25  50] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 30 202 173  48  48  96] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 160 145  80  80 105] 600

Kyogre --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 100  90 150 140  90] 670
    Current New Stats: [100  87  78 131 122  78] 596
Alternative New Stats: [100  86  76 136 126  76] 600

Mawile --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  85  85  55  55  50] 380
    Current New Stats: [ 50 141 141  91  91  83] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 129 129  99  99  94] 600

Sandygast ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  55  80  70  45  15] 320
    Current New Stats: [ 55 113 164 143  92  30] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 55 111 136 126 101  71] 600

Timburr -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 75  80  55  25  35  35] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 75 182 125  57  79  79] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 75 139 114  84  94  94] 600

B- RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Meowth --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  45  35  40  40  90] 290
    Current New Stats: [ 40 100  78  89  89 201] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 107  97 102 102 152] 600

Meowth-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  35  35  50  40  90] 290
    Current New Stats: [ 40  78  78 112  89 201] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40  97  97 112 102 152] 600

Poochyena ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  55  35  30  30  35] 220
    Current New Stats: [ 35 167 106  91  91 106] 596
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 131 111 106 106 111] 600

Sandile -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  72  35  35  35  65] 292
    Current New Stats: [ 50 163  79  79  79 147] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 133  96  96  96 126] 597

Wingull -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  30  30  55  30  85] 270
    Current New Stats: [ 40  73  73 133  73 206] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40  96  96 121  96 151] 600

OTHERS /////////////////////////////////////////////

Chansey -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [250   5   5  35 105  50] 450
    Current New Stats: [250   8   8  61 183  87] 597
Alternative New Stats: [250  35  35  65 135  80] 600

The issue of addition possibly causing negative stats is not a problem since I've checked and there's no pokemon that this would occurr with.

The issue that may arise is a meta thats a bit too stall biased, I'm not sure. The big issue I see is that you'd have a chansey with 35 Defence!

N.B. I do undertand that there is little problem with the current formula and the meta is already established with it. I'm just presenting a thought.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I was wondering if there was any particular reason why the current formula for stat calculation is used.

I tried a different formula:

New Stat = Stat + (600 - BST) / 5

This seems to remove a lot of the ridiculously high stats that you see on things like Carvanha, Abra, and Ghastly. While making little difference to many other things. This could potentially bring a more versatile and balanced meta, but don't quote me on it. It may also allow the current uber pokemon to be a bit more competitive, as well as making the meta a bit less Hyper Offence biased.

Current Viablility Rankings Comparisons As Examples

BANNNED OR UNTESTED ////////////////////////////////

Carvanha ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 45  90  20  65  20  65] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 45 192  42 138  42 138] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 45 149  79 124  79 124] 600

Rayquaza-Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [105 180 100 180 100 115] 780
    Current New Stats: [105 132  73 132  73  84] 599
Alternative New Stats: [105 144  64 144  64  79] 600

Shedinja ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [  1  90  45  30  30  40] 236
    Current New Stats: [  1 229 114  76  76 101] 597
Alternative New Stats: [  1 162 117 102 102 112] 596

Mawile-Mega ---------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50 105 125  55  95  50] 480
    Current New Stats: [ 50 134 159  70 121  63] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 129 149  79 119  74] 600

Medicham-Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 60 100  85  80  85 100] 510
    Current New Stats: [ 60 120 102  96 102 120] 600
Alternative New Stats: [ 60 118 103  98 103 118] 600

S RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Abra ----------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 25  20  15 105  55  90] 310
    Current New Stats: [ 25  40  30 211 110 181] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 25  78  73 163 113 148] 600

Ghastly -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  35  30 100  35  80] 310
    Current New Stats: [ 30  71  61 203  71 162] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30  93  88 158  93 138] 600

A+ RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Aegislash ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 60  50 150  50 150  60] 520
    Current New Stats: [ 60  58 176  58 176  70] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 60  66 166  66 166  76] 600

Beedrill Mega -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 65 150  40  15  80 145] 495
    Current New Stats: [ 65 186  49  18  99 180] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 65 171  61  36 101 166] 600

Bunnelby ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  36  38  32  36  57] 237
    Current New Stats: [ 38 101 107  90 101 160] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 108 110 104 108 129] 597

Meditite ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  40  55  40  55  60] 280
    Current New Stats: [ 30  91 125  91 125 136] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 104 119 104 119 124] 600

Pheromosa ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 71 137  37 137  37 151] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 71 145  39 145  39 160] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 71 143  43 143  43 157] 600

Pyukumuku ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  60 130  30 130   5] 410
    Current New Stats: [ 55  92 199  46 199   7] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 55  98 168  68 168  43] 600

Tapu Bulu ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70 130 115  85  95  75] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 70 137 121  90 100  79] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 70 136 121  91 101  81] 600

Tapu Lele ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70  85  75 130 115  95] 570
    Current New Stats: [ 70  90  79 137 121 100] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 70  91  81 136 121 101] 600

Yungoos -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 48  70  30  30  30  45] 253
    Current New Stats: [ 48 188  80  80  80 121] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 48 139  99  99  99 114] 598

A RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Darumaka ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 70  90  45  15  45  50] 315
    Current New Stats: [ 70 194  97  32  97 108] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 70 147 102  72 102 107] 600

Dewpider ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  40  52  40  72  27] 269
    Current New Stats: [ 38  97 126  97 175  65] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 106 118 106 138  93] 599

Fomantis ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  55  35  50  35  35] 250
    Current New Stats: [ 40 146  93 133  93  93] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 125 105 120 105 105] 600

Grimer-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 80  80  50  40  50  25] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 80 169 106  84 106  53] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 80 135 105  95 105  80] 600

Muk-Alola ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [105 105  75  65 100  50] 500
    Current New Stats: [105 131  93  81 125  62] 597
Alternative New Stats: [105 125  95  85 120  70] 600

Smeargle ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  20  35  20  45  75] 250
    Current New Stats: [ 55  55  97  55 125 209] 596
Alternative New Stats: [ 55  90 105  90 115 145] 600

Staryu --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  45  55  70  55  85] 340
    Current New Stats: [ 30  82 101 128 101 156] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30  97 107 122 107 137] 600

Vulpix-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  41  40  50  65  65] 299
    Current New Stats: [ 38  88  86 107 139 139] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 101 100 110 125 125] 599

Zygarde-10% ---------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 54 100  71  61  85 115] 486
    Current New Stats: [ 54 126  89  77 107 145] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 54 122  93  83 107 137] 596

A- RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Clamperl ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  64  85  74  55  32] 345
    Current New Stats: [ 35 116 154 134 100  58] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 115 136 125 106  83] 600

Clefable ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 95  70  73  95  90  60] 483
    Current New Stats: [ 95  91  95 123 117  78] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 95  93  96 118 113  83] 598

Crawdaunt ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 63 120  85  90  55  55] 468
    Current New Stats: [ 63 159 112 119  72  72] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 63 146 111 116  81  81] 598

Cutiefly ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  45  40  55  40  84] 304
    Current New Stats: [ 40  95  84 116  84 178] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 104  99 114  99 143] 599

Drampa --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 78  60  85 135  91  36] 485
    Current New Stats: [ 78  76 109 173 116  46] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 78  83 108 158 114  59] 600

Passimian ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 120  90  40  60  80] 490
    Current New Stats: [100 153 115  51  76 102] 597
Alternative New Stats: [100 142 112  62  82 102] 600

Pawniard ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 45  85  70  40  40  60] 340
    Current New Stats: [ 45 159 131  75  75 112] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 45 137 122  92  92 112] 600

Pikipek -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  75  30  30  30  65] 265
    Current New Stats: [ 35 184  73  73  73 159] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 142  97  97  97 132] 600

Rattata-Alola -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30  56  35  25  35  72] 253
    Current New Stats: [ 30 143  89  63  89 184] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 125 104  94 104 141] 598

Vulpix --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 38  41  40  50  65  65] 299
    Current New Stats: [ 38  88  86 107 139 139] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 38 101 100 110 125 125] 599

B+ RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Corphish ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 43  80  65  50  35  35] 308
    Current New Stats: [ 43 168 136 105  73  73] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 43 138 123 108  93  93] 598

Gliscor -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 75  95 125  45  75  95] 510
    Current New Stats: [ 75 114 150  54  90 114] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 75 113 143  63  93 113] 600

Groudon-Primal ------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 180 160 150  90  90] 770
    Current New Stats: [100 134 119 111  67  67] 598
Alternative New Stats: [100 146 126 116  56  56] 600

Kyogre-Primal -------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 150  90 180 160  90] 770
    Current New Stats: [100 111  67 134 119  67] 598
Alternative New Stats: [100 116  56 146 126  56] 600

Magnemite ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 25  35  70  95  55  45] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 25  67 134 182 105  86] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 25  90 125 150 110 100] 600

Quagsire ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 95  85  85  65  65  35] 430
    Current New Stats: [ 95 128 128  97  97  52] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 95 119 119  99  99  69] 600

Reuniclus ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [110  65  75 125  85  30] 490
    Current New Stats: [110  83  96 161 109  38] 597
Alternative New Stats: [110  87  97 147 107  52] 600

Sableye-Mega --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  85 125  85 115  20] 480
    Current New Stats: [ 50 108 159 108 147  25] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 109 149 109 139  44] 600

Xerneas -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [126 131  95 131  98  99] 680
    Current New Stats: [126 112  81 112  83  84] 598
Alternative New Stats: [126 115  79 115  82  83] 600

B RANK /////////////////////////////////////////////

Cofagrigus ----------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 58  50 145  95 105  30] 483
    Current New Stats: [ 58  63 184 121 133  38] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 58  73 168 118 128  53] 598

Doublade ------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 59 110 150  45  49  35] 448
    Current New Stats: [ 59 152 208  62  68  48] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 59 140 180  75  79  65] 598

Ferroseed ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 44  50  91  24  86  10] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 44 106 193  51 183  21] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 44 109 150  83 145  69] 600

Ferrothorn ----------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 74  94 131  54 116  20] 489
    Current New Stats: [ 74 119 166  68 147  25] 599
Alternative New Stats: [ 74 116 153  76 138  42] 599

Krabby --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 30 105  90  25  25  50] 325
    Current New Stats: [ 30 202 173  48  48  96] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 30 160 145  80  80 105] 600

Kyogre --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [100 100  90 150 140  90] 670
    Current New Stats: [100  87  78 131 122  78] 596
Alternative New Stats: [100  86  76 136 126  76] 600

Mawile --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  85  85  55  55  50] 380
    Current New Stats: [ 50 141 141  91  91  83] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 129 129  99  99  94] 600

Sandygast ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 55  55  80  70  45  15] 320
    Current New Stats: [ 55 113 164 143  92  30] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 55 111 136 126 101  71] 600

Timburr -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 75  80  55  25  35  35] 305
    Current New Stats: [ 75 182 125  57  79  79] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 75 139 114  84  94  94] 600

B- RANK ////////////////////////////////////////////

Meowth --------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  45  35  40  40  90] 290
    Current New Stats: [ 40 100  78  89  89 201] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 40 107  97 102 102 152] 600

Meowth-Alola --------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  35  35  50  40  90] 290
    Current New Stats: [ 40  78  78 112  89 201] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40  97  97 112 102 152] 600

Poochyena ------------ [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 35  55  35  30  30  35] 220
    Current New Stats: [ 35 167 106  91  91 106] 596
Alternative New Stats: [ 35 131 111 106 106 111] 600

Sandile -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 50  72  35  35  35  65] 292
    Current New Stats: [ 50 163  79  79  79 147] 597
Alternative New Stats: [ 50 133  96  96  96 126] 597

Wingull -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [ 40  30  30  55  30  85] 270
    Current New Stats: [ 40  73  73 133  73 206] 598
Alternative New Stats: [ 40  96  96 121  96 151] 600

OTHERS /////////////////////////////////////////////

Chansey -------------- [ HP Atk Def SpA SpD Spe] BST
       Original Stats: [250   5   5  35 105  50] 450
    Current New Stats: [250   8   8  61 183  87] 597
Alternative New Stats: [250  35  35  65 135  80] 600

The issue of addition possibly causing negative stats is not a problem since I've checked and there's no pokemon that this would occurr with.

The issue that may arise is a meta thats a bit too stall biased, I'm not sure. The big issue I see is that you'd have a chansey with 35 Defence!

N.B. I do undertand that there is little problem with the current formula and the meta is already established with it. I'm just presenting a thought.

I think it's because the whole concept of the meta is that stats are "scaled", which is why mons with big stat disparities like abra have their stats become insane while mons with rounded stats remain mediocre. I do agree that the current formula does restrict certain strategies and make certain mons op or centralizing, but that's just the idiosyncrasies of the meta, and I don't think it needs to be changed. It's not supposed to make all pokemon more viable by giving them (near) equal BST, but rather to scale every mons BST to 600 and see what arises from that.

 

[mt0101]

Things that ought to be at least ranked in viability:

Cranidos
67/235/75/56/56/109 (Mold Breaker/Sheer Force)

Cranidos' speed tier is now better than the things it wants to break with Swords Dance such as Aegislash, Unaware Clef, Ferroseed/thorn and Primal Groudon. It is also now a viable Rock Polish user. Importantly for teambuilding, it gets rocks up versus M-Sableye and its Earthquake doesn't provide a free switch in for Gastly.

Komala
65/148/83/96/122/83

Functions quite decently as an offensive/defensive pivot with access to the all-important (in this meta) Sucker Punch and immunity to Ghost. It has good bulk and solid attack for a priority user, absorbs sleep/status completely thanks to its ability, and has access to Swords Dance, U-Turn, Rapid Spin, Earthquake, and a plethora of physical coverage moves. If you're a memer you can always go for Sleep Talk Last Resort.

Lucario-Mega
70/138/84/133/66/106

Although its bulk and speed are absolutely pitiful, Lucario-M is somewhat of an anti-meta pick due to its access to Bulk Up, Adaptability Bullet Punch, Drain Punch/Close Combat, Calm Mind, and Vacuum Wave. It switches into things that rely on strong or prioritized Dark/Normal moves and threatens them with CC/Drain Punch, then can get off a bulk up or calm mind. bullet punch definitely doesn't 2HKO unaware clef though so don't be a dummy and try to use it that way. Hidden C tier bois. Vacuum Wave is definitely worth running in a meta where Bunnelby and Rattata-Alola exist as well. Steadfast, Inner Focus, and Justified are all three viable for different niche situations as the base form's ability, with Justified being the most usable.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7scalemons-758555418
A match where Mega-Lucario inspires the opponent to label me a cunt.

 

[Chillllllow]

Hello,

I just wanna share my team. Nothing too special, a lot of common mons, tho maybe some sets that are less common (no idea what ppl run). A little volturn team with Mega Beedrill, choice scarf Bunnelby and min speed Fortress.

I also wanted to use as many mons that hit hard as possible. However, there is no great special attacker, just some mediocre sheer force and adaptability mons that are either A dual offensive or B do not make great use of this tiers idea. Tho, Ghastly and Abra are strong even without an offensive ability. Maybe I should use one or both of them. Drifloon with flare boost (which is guts for special attack) is maybe an option, but the spa is not really that much better than its atk and it does have huge HP, which means its speed and special attack do not recieve that much of a boost in this tier, tho maybe it is still decent enough.

Fortress, because overcoat and rapid spin is kinda good versus smeargle. Just spam rapid spin if they do have a ghost type and if not you can afford to get your own rocks up. Another set that might be less common is jolly max speed Marill life orb. This thing becomes relatively fast and hits hard and does have jet for even faster mons. Bulky meditite might also be less common. I use it because I hate HJK and love drain punch. The priority moves do have good synergy with its bulk.

Team

Bunnelby @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Meditite @ Life Orb
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Bullet Punch
- Fake Out

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Drill Run

Marill @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield

 

[Ivy]

Alright, how is Thick Club banned, yet Huge Power, huge Attack boys like Diggersby roam free? At least Thick Club takes the item slot. Was looking forward to using Marowak; it has a respectable 101 Attack after a scaling.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Alright, how is Thick Club banned, yet Huge Power, huge Attack boys like Diggersby roam free? At least Thick Club takes the item slot. Was looking forward to using Marowak; it has a respectable 101 Attack after a scaling.

Correction: Marowak has 118 attack after scaling. Cubone is the one with 101.

But with that said, yeah, I'm open to a suspect. Marowak and its Alola form both have really shit speed, no priority, and meh special bulk with no recovery. They're strong, sure, but so are Abra and Gastly, two Pokemon with high speed on top of their power, and Zygarde, who has an amazing STAB and additional speed. Maro has limited switch-ins, but so do Yungoos, Bunnelby and Rattata-Alola, and nobody is screaming for them to be banned.

 

[Chillllllow]

Opinion about hard hitting spa mons? Still struggeling to find decent ones that are worth to take instead of the omni present physical mons with Huge / Pure power, Guts, Sheer Force and Adaptability.

Tinted Lens Venomoth or Adaptability P-Z? I am not a huge fan of setting up, because Unaware is quite present. Unfortunately all the mold breaker mons besides Kyurem-W are physical, too. And it cannot boost its spa if I am not missing something.

Kinda strange. So many mons, yet is so one-sided.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Opinion about hard hitting spa mons? Still struggeling to find decent ones that are worth to take instead of the omni present physical mons with Huge / Pure power, Guts, Sheer Force and Adaptability.

Tinted Lens Venomoth or Adaptability P-Z? I am not a huge fan of setting up, because Unaware is quite present. Unfortunately all the mold breaker mons besides Kyurem-W are physical, too.

Kinda strange. So many mons, yet is so one-sided.

Abra and Gastly????

 

[Chillllllow]

Abra and Gastly????

In my opinion they are a little bit overrated and are extremely ez to revenge kill. Especially Gastly without access to Magic Guard + Focus Sash. Also I am more searching of hard-hitting mons instead of fast mons. Maybe bulky offensive. Like max hp assault vest Azu with something like huge power.

 

[earl]

Opinion about hard hitting spa mons? Still struggeling to find decent ones that are worth to take instead of the omni present physical mons with Huge / Pure power, Guts, Sheer Force and Adaptability.

Tinted Lens Venomoth or Adaptability P-Z? I am not a huge fan of setting up, because Unaware is quite present. Unfortunately all the mold breaker mons besides Kyurem-W are physical, too. And it cannot boost its spa if I am not missing something.

Kinda strange. So many mons, yet is so one-sided.

Quag's special bulk isn't the greatest and you can easily lure it with grass-type coverage, I don't see how it somehow makes special set-up unviable

 

[Chillllllow]

Yes, I just tried P-Z Adaptability Z-Conversion@Thunderbolt vs Pyuk and Toxpex (fkin haze) with Psyshock vs Amoonguss and Chansey and HP Grass vs Quag.

Does quite well vs stall after some pre work of the team, with modest however, which is probably too slow for common teams if I do not manage to get rid of faster mons. Tho, timid might be enough vs stall aswell if I manage to deal more damage with other mons before.

In the end I am quite happy with this set. I also use Abra now as this mon and Magic Guard + Sash is probably too useful to not use it. With HP Ground vs Grimer. I do not rly manage to find a better spa offensive mon. Nor a bulky offensive spa one that is worth it. So, I have my spa mons now. Tyvm!

Edit:
Also, maybe some1 finds use in the Drillbur set that I use. Jolly max speed Mold Breaker + Sword Dance + Stealth Rocks is quite good vs Magic Bounce and Unaware aka again vs stall.

 

[Kris]

Hi. I've been kind of quiet, and I'm sorry about that. Some personal stuff got in the way. Here are some announcements:

Huge Power

This ability is very unhealthy. It enables Choice Band Bunnelby to OHKO basically everything with Quick Attack, and it lets other Huge Power Pokemon grasp uncompetitive levels of power. There isn't much to say about this that hasn't already been said. Huge Power is banned.

Abra and Gastly

These two Pokemon are unrivaled in power. Abra is able to break through basically anything, and unless it faces a team full of priority users, it's basically unbreakable. There isn't much that outspeeds it without the help of items like Choice Scarf, and there's also not very much that can live a hit from it and KO it in return, even without considering Focus Sash. The same can be said about Gastly. While Gastly isn't as fast as Abra, nor is it as powerful, its speed and power is still unhealthy. Abra and Gastly are banned.

VR Updates:

S -> UR

S -> UR

A+ -> UR

A+ -> S

 

[VCrakeV]

I'm glad that I don't have to worry about sash Abra on my HO team (was using scarf Cinncino to break through sash), but simultaneously upset that I can't use abra myself anymore lol... seriously though, I'm glad it's gone.

That said, if abra and gastly are banned because of their high speed and special attack, I believe Tailow is deserving of some attention. It's outsped only by Smeargle and Wimpod (the former of which has poor offensive stats, the latter of which is only slightly stronger, and certainly a very niche pick), and its solid attack stat is nothing to laugh at, at least when backed by guts and strong stab in facade and brave bird. I'm not sure if it's ban-worthy, especially since it's less common than the recently banned threats were, but it's certainly worth considering.

 

[Hason2003]

What do You think of my sets?

Butterfree @ Expert Belt
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic
- Quiver Dance
- Roost

Rout 51 (Beheeyem) @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Signal Beam


Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

 

[RetroBacon]

Talk of Naganadel has been quiet or non-existent, but I think it deserves a mention - it's one hell of a threat.

 

[Brain Geniouse]

One of the absolute joys of Scalemons (and truly any alternative meta) is the ability to let lowly Pokemon that are dear to you shine and regain the element of surprise. Here's a set I've been running and looooving:

Stunfisk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb

Aegislash can't touch it. Even super-effective STABs can't OHKO it, and usually take three hits or more. In that time they've gotten paralyzed, burned, or poisoned. It's more of a pivot w/ benefits, but I've swept with the humble electric short stack a few times. Not gonna win any tournaments probably but hey we're here to have a good time... right?

 

[readytolose]

Now that Abra and Gastly are banned, I think Kadabra and Haunter should be looked into or added to the viability ranking. They're basically Abra and Gastly but not as good.

For reference here's their stats 25/40/30/211/110/181
Kadabra: 40/54/46/186/108/163

Gastly: 30/71/61/203/71/162
Haunter: 45/77/69/177/84/146

Main issue is their speed tiers are not as good, but otherwise they perform very similarly. You could probably make a similar argument for Sharpedo, seeing as Carvanha was banned earlier.