Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Hydrametr0nice said:
A few months ago, this bug was reported due to hacked Ogerpon-[form]-Tera Terastallizing in Custom Battles. You and DaWoblefet tested it, and he reported what would happen in the cartridge. I have an open PR that implements the findings the two of you discovered. As I mentioned, I also have another open PR to address fainted form regressions. So, I suppose my question was just for completeness.

Edit: I also thought you could start with another form of Terapagos in Hackmons, but you can't.
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I don't want to derail the thread with simulator policy, but you must understand that the only way to get into that situation is to use a hack that is not allowed in local battles. Since it's a question mark how you ended up there, and you're already dodging gamebreaking behavior such as softlocks, I feel like you could simply implement whatever you wanted to happen rather than have people test something that's not actually possible without mad hacks. I personally do not consider that vital knowledge so I do not plan to test it; anyone else can do it if they disagree.
 
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I couldn't find if anyone talked about this earlier in the thread, but if someone did my apologies for bringing it up again.

Found an odd interaction with Booster Energy and Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on turn zero. If a weather other than sun (or a terrain other than electric) is set, Booster Energy will immediately activate for a Pokemon with Protosynthesis (or Quark Drive, respectively), even if there are other abilities that are supposed to activate. I posted documentation here: https://bsky.app/profile/nerdofnow.bsky.social/post/3lg2ox2c5ps2v
 
nerd of now said:
I couldn't find if anyone talked about this earlier in the thread, but if someone did my apologies for bringing it up again.

Found an odd interaction with Booster Energy and Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on turn zero. If a weather other than sun (or a terrain other than electric) is set, Booster Energy will immediately activate for a Pokemon with Protosynthesis (or Quark Drive, respectively), even if there are other abilities that are supposed to activate. I posted documentation here: https://bsky.app/profile/nerdofnow.bsky.social/post/3lg2ox2c5ps2v
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Yes? Booster Energy activates if a Pokémon with Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is sent out and the weather/terrain isn't the correct one. It's doing exactly what it's meant to there.
 
AztecCroc said:
Yes? Booster Energy activates if a Pokémon with Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is sent out and the weather/terrain isn't the correct one. It's doing exactly what it's meant to there.
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He meant that Booster Energy is activated during the activation of the weather ability. Booster Energy is essentially being used in the WeatherChange callback if the weather being set isn't sun, rather than the item activating during its own Start callback.

nerd of now said:
I couldn't find if anyone talked about this earlier in the thread, but if someone did my apologies for bringing it up again.

Found an odd interaction with Booster Energy and Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on turn zero. If a weather other than sun (or a terrain other than electric) is set, Booster Energy will immediately activate for a Pokemon with Protosynthesis (or Quark Drive, respectively), even if there are other abilities that are supposed to activate. I posted documentation here: https://bsky.app/profile/nerdofnow.bsky.social/post/3lg2ox2c5ps2v
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I'm curious: is Booster Energy wasted if Alolan Ninetales summons snow and then Torkoal summons sun?
 
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AztecCroc said:
Yes? Booster Energy activates if a Pokémon with Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is sent out and the weather/terrain isn't the correct one. It's doing exactly what it's meant to there.
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https://bsky.app/profile/nerdofnow.bsky.social/post/3lg3w2zc3ic26
This is what happens in every other situation. It's relevant for Paradox Pokemon that receive an Attack boost from Booster Energy because without weather, Intimidate would lower their Attack and then they'd get the boost from Booster Energy in another stat, but with a faster weather setter they get the Attack boost from Booster Energy before Intimidate can lower their Attack.
Hydrametr0nice said:
I'm curious: is Booster Energy wasted if Alolan Ninetales summons snow and then Torkoal summons sun?
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https://bsky.app/profile/nerdofnow.bsky.social/post/3lg3xoq5ye22f
Yes, Snow Warning causes Booster Energy to be consumed, then Drought activates.
 
Hydrametr0nice said:
Can someone check what happens if baby Terapagos has Teraform Zero? Does it activate when it terastallizes? I'm trying to determine whether the condition is being Terapagos-Stellar specifically, or any form of Terastallized Terapagos.
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Hi. This was already checked by me in this post a while ago. Teraform Zero doesn't activate upon Tera or otherwise for baby Terapagos or for other Pokemon, with or without Tera Stellar. I repeated the test to be completely sure of this interaction in the newest game update, though, and it's the same result. Hope this helps.
 
Chrispy Burns said:
Hey I'm getting inconsistent results from Magician + Throat Spray + Sound Move stealing items in a single turn.

Test setup, a Delphox @ throat spray uses hyper voice against a closdsire @ choice band and a Darkrai @ choice band. This was to test if speed was a factor, but the clodsire made it through some battles with its item.
I am unsure if throat spray gets factored into magician like gems would (no item stolen) or power herb (steals item).

I believe it should be 100% consistent against slower mons and that showdown is bugged, I am unsure if not stealing an item against faster mons is a bug or expected behavior too.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050957563 (item stolen)
(replay 2 was lost but item was stolen)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050959195 (clodsire kept its choice band)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050969717 (clodsire kept its choice band)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050970333 (item stolen)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050971110 (item stolen)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050958047
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050960431
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2050961155

(edit: if possible check for gen 8 behavior)
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Hi, I'm wondering about this exact question that was asked a while ago and doesn't appear to have been answered. I have been running a Throat Spray Delphox with Magician and Psychic Noise (on Showdown). Sometimes it steals the opponent's item on the turn that Throat Spray activates, and sometimes it doesn't, I believe even when the opponent is slower. Is this a glitch? Thanks!!
 
viol and bass said:
Hi, I'm wondering about this exact question that was asked a while ago and doesn't appear to have been answered. I have been running a Throat Spray Delphox with Magician and Psychic Noise (on Showdown). Sometimes it steals the opponent's item on the turn that Throat Spray activates, and sometimes it doesn't, I believe even when the opponent is slower. Is this a glitch? Thanks!!
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This has been reported a few times in the bug reports forum and the correct interaction is described here:
DaWoblefet

Done Post in thread 'Throat Spray and Magician'

For the developer: the bug is likely a race condition, but Throat Spray in general should be very late in the checks done after move success (after the Sheer Force-negated block at least). The correct fix is to move Throat Spray to a later event. To be clear, Psychic Noise Throat Spray with Magician on cartridge will not steal an item.
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Anubis said:
This has been reported a few times in the bug reports forum and the correct interaction is described here:
DaWoblefet

Done Post in thread 'Throat Spray and Magician'

For the developer: the bug is likely a race condition, but Throat Spray in general should be very late in the checks done after move success (after the Sheer Force-negated block at least). The correct fix is to move Throat Spray to a later event. To be clear, Psychic Noise Throat Spray with Magician on cartridge will not steal an item.
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Ohhh, interesting. Thank you!
 
Hey I ran into some interesting interactions when it comes to turn order when using Round on PS! which I'm not sure have been tested before.

First replay has mid-turn Intimidate activating after all the Round users are done attacking rather than when the mon is sent out: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2286385286-ec92awmmv6yempl79p9ju47ot68ytrqpw

Second replay is what made me want to look into this more as it seems the Round chain (which goes in speed order between the Round users) ignores speed changes that happen during the chain (Note that the Uxie in this replay is Sand Rush): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-2286388363-21ig0yxgl5m9chotzt3pb0bve5dzmvzpw

There may be some other cases with this and I'm not even sure if this is a PS! bug or how it actually works on cart, but I'm hoping you can help me figure it out, thank you!
 
I haven't tested this on PS yet, but I can't find anything about how tera works after using reflect type. Do you keep the reflect type stabs or your original stabs? I don't know if this is something that is already known or not.
 
hackmonsforever said:
I haven't tested this on PS yet, but I can't find anything about how tera works after using reflect type. Do you keep the reflect type stabs or your original stabs? I don't know if this is something that is already known or not.
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If you change type before Terastallizing you retain the changed type unless you switch out. Except Forest's Curse (and theoretically Trick-or-Treat), that gets wiped on Tera.
 

Hackmons—Stellar move vs Terastallized Tera Shell (I think you would need two local systems to test this)​

If a Stellar Terastallized Pokémon uses Tera Blast against a Terastallized Terapagos-Terastal, is the move super effective (due to Stellar's effectiveness against Terastallized targets) or not super effective (because of Tera Shell)? For Terapagos to remain in its Terastal form and retain Tera Shell, you would need to use Transform, Terastallize into a non-Stellar type, then switch out and switch back in.
 
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Hydrametr0nice said:

Hackmons—Stellar move vs Terastallized Tera Shell (I think you would need two local systems to test this)​

If a Stellar Terastallized Pokémon uses Tera Blast against a Terastallized Terapagos-Terastal, is the move super effective (due to Stellar's effectiveness against Terastallized targets) or not super effective (because of Tera Shell)? For Terapagos to remain in its Terastal form and retain Tera Shell, you would need to use Transform, Terastallize into a non-Stellar type, then switch out and switch back in.
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Related question: Do all of Terapagos’s formes get the special Tera Stellar behavior where they get the 1.2 boost to all types forever instead of just once per type?
 
In gen 9, when multiple Dancers copy a move, they copy it in order from fastest to slowest, apparently including speed modifiers as normal.
https://bsky.app/profile/f-buffalo.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lkou2iuufs2p
This may seem unsurprising, but in gen 7, multiple Dancer activations would resolve in order of slowest to fastest using the “raw” speed stat without any modifiers. My guess is the change in gen 8 that made speed order update after every action also inadvertently fixed Dancer’s weird resolution order, but nobody noticed because Oricorio wasn’t in gen 8.
 
Mahmudkipz said:
do Palafin/Terapagos's form changes affect an ally's Beat Up base power? If so, does it require Palafin to be back on the field as Hero form?
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Hi. Beat Up uses the attack stat of the form that an ally started the battle in, as shown by DaWoblefet in Gen 8. I confirmed this is still the case using Terapagos in Gen 9, too. Palafin specifically is yet to be directly tested but this holds for every other case. Hope this helps.
 
Anubis said:
No, those went the way of Spiky-Eared Pichu and the cosplay Pikachu. I included a json and table of personal. Note that like pretty much everything else in the game, they're sorted by internal ID, and one of the fields is the National Dex ID that humans use.


Are you asking whether it's possible to play a romhack? I had to edit the code execution to get that image. In the same way, this would be how you can give every Pokémon 1 HP, or change every model into an upside-down Rayquaza, or enable every move and turn them all into Fissure. I considered writing "THIS IS A MOD" under that example because it's not doable by simple save-editing. Imo, it's actually an argument to disallow specifically those battle-only forms in the table, because the game actively prevents you from using them. But that's a policy discussion, not for here.

(It's imprecise to say "battle-only forms" because many battle-only forms such as Megas and Ash Greninja are not in the list, and thus do not revert. It's strictly a hard-coded table of the forms that do get reverted.)

EDIT: now includes a text dump of all species/forms as well as json and table
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Hi, in the files you provided in the zip, there is an Eevee-1 and a Pikachu-8, which have matching base stats with the -Starter formes, so I'm assuming those are just the starter formes in the table. Does this mean these formes of Eevee/Pikachu are useable in SV. (Checking because current PS implementation for hackmons has them excluded)

Edit: If it is possible for whoever is able to test the above, would they also be able to verify Pikachu-Starter's compatibility with Light Ball, as well as help verify Ash-Greninja's behaviour with Water Shuriken if it has a different ability than Battle Bond (the video Anubis linked is no longer available)
Anubis said:
You can quickly look to see that species 658 is not in the table or the pseudocode, so it isn't handled at all by this code.
So yes, you can use bonded Ash Greninja (form 2) in battle, and yes, Water Shuriken always does 3 hits of 20 BP if used by one.

Both of these are 6 IV, Timid, 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe in a local battle.
Left is Greninja-1, right is Greninja-2.
View attachment 538024 View attachment 538025

Here are videos comparing Water Shuriken when used by a Greninja-1 and Greninja-2.
One of them only hit 2 times with BP of 15, and the other hit 3 times with BP of 20.
https://imgur.com/a/XoWsSV4

As previously stated, forms that don't have a model simply use form 0's model if it exists, which is why they all look like regular Greninja.
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If you were to edit an Ogerpon form's typing to change the secondary type (i.e. changing Hearthflame Ogerpon from Grass/Fire to Grass/Fairy) would that in turn make Ivy Cudgel change into said secondary type? There's conflicting info on what exactly determines the Ivy Cudgel typing, I've seen some say it's based on Ogerpon's typing or that it's based on the code of the mask it's wearing.
 
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