Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Kalalokki

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Tested out the "of Ruin" abilities, specifically Tablets of Ruin. Going off the assumption that it's a flat reduction to their damage similar to how Dark/Fairy Aura works, and that GF chose a nice and round %, it seems that it most likely decreases by 25%.

Here's the inverse percentage ranges (due to damage rolls) I got from calculating on the wild pokemon I had saved in front of to repeat this and knew its exact stats by catching it in an earlier save:

0.83-0.69
0.93-0.71
0.81-0.62
0.93-0.71
0.84-0.71
0.77-0.65


Since I can count out both 20% and 30% as possibilities, 25% is the one I find the most likely and is hopefully a number that they use for the other 3 abilities, but I'll test this out later with Swords of Ruin too for safety.

Marty later helped me out to verify using the last range and its potential damage roll:
+1 Lvl 49 0 Atk Falinks Reversal (80 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Wo-Chien
Actual damage: 74
(96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114) – Unmodified
(72, 72, 74, 74, 74, 78, 78, 78, 78, 80, 80, 80, 84, 84, 84, 86) – with 25% Attack reduction
(72, 72, 73, 73, 73, 76, 76, 76, 78, 78, 81, 81, 81, 82, 82, 85) – with 25% damage reduction
 
Can't confirm because I don't have a HA version myself, but Filet Away might be "boosted" by Sharpness: Instead of taking 50% HP when used by a Mold Breaker variant, it takes away 75% HP when used by a trainer who had one with Sharpness. Despite this, it still only boosts Atk/SpA/Spe by 2 stages each. Wack.
Huh, it didn't occur to me the first time I read this, but I just looked at the Trainer data - it looks like aren't supposed to be any NPC-owned Veluza with their HA (Sharpness) in the first place. o.o
I did double-check the raw data in case I messed up the sheet somehow, which is always very possible - it looks like this is public now, so looking here and here, all eight Veluza are either fixed to slot 1 or random between their non-Hidden Abilities. That should completely eliminate Sharpness as an option unless things are working differently than we expect...

This is also strange because the move's damage internally appears to work more like Substitute or Belly Drum (it's hard-coded into the move effect and appears to be a prerequisite for even attempting the rest of the move).
At first, I took at face value that it was just an oversight on the assumption that it was a "negative heal" like Mind Blown - Mind Blown-style recoil is the same column as Heal Pulse's healing, which is known to be affected by Mega Launcher, so I thought it would make sense for the same column to be modified by an equivalent Ability even if it were a total accident...
but since it isn't that column, and in fact the datamined move table doesn't do much to indicate how much the move is supposed to damage the user at all, it is quite a lot stranger to me for this interaction to slip through the cracks unless it was for some reason intentional.

So uh, just to double-check - how confident are you that the Veluza in this interaction had Sharpness at all? Is it possible that the move itself works differently than we thought/that the amount of damage it does to the user can vary, even on Mold Breaker variants...? or can anyone test that HA Veluza do exist on some enemy teams (should be possible to say with confidence because Mold Breaker has an activation message and Sharpness doesn't)?
 

RoiDadadou

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The only three remaining questions I have for the doc (sorry if this was already asked) are the following:

- When Guard Dog states "boosts Attack if intimidated", is it like Conrary, but only on Intimidate, or does it negates the -1 with a +1, putting you at 0 ?
- Did we have the answer for Cyclizar Sub being 25 or 50% of his health worth ?
- Raging Fist taking into account damage taken by Sub ?
 
Bulbapedia said:
If Battle Bond is activated, Water Shuriken's power rises from 15 to 20, and it always hits three times.
Does that still apply in SV?


Also, gonna take the chance to bump my question from Page 2 just in case it went by unnoticed:
"Does Wind Power's "charge" stack with the actual status induced by the move Charge?"

For example, let's say there's a Kilowattrel with Wind Power on the Player's side and a Pidgeot on the Opposing side.
Kilowattrel uses Charge, meaning next turn's Electric-type offensive moves are buffed up.
Pidgeot uses Hurricane (Note: I'm assuming it'll end being classified a "wind move" here) to hurt Kilowattrel, thus activating its Wind Power.
If Kilowattrel uses Spark, Thundershock or w/e on Turn 2, does it get both Charge boosts or just one?
 

Manaphy

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Tested out the "of Ruin" abilities, specifically Tablets of Ruin. Going off the assumption that it's a flat reduction to their damage similar to how Dark/Fairy Aura works, and that GF chose a nice and round %, it seems that it most likely decreases by 25%.

Here's the inverse percentage ranges (due to damage rolls) I got from calculating on the wild pokemon I had saved in front of to repeat this and knew its exact stats by catching it in an earlier save:

0.83-0.69
0.93-0.71
0.81-0.62
0.93-0.71
0.84-0.71
0.77-0.65


Since I can count out both 20% and 30% as possibilities, 25% is the one I find the most likely and is hopefully a number that they use for the other 3 abilities, but I'll test this out later with Swords of Ruin too for safety.

Marty later helped me out to verify using the last range and its potential damage roll:
+1 Lvl 49 0 Atk Falinks Reversal (80 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Wo-Chien
Actual damage: 74
(96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114) – Unmodified
(72, 72, 74, 74, 74, 78, 78, 78, 78, 80, 80, 80, 84, 84, 84, 86) – with 25% Attack reduction
(72, 72, 73, 73, 73, 76, 76, 76, 78, 78, 81, 81, 81, 82, 82, 85) – with 25% damage reduction
Thanks for looking into this with detail!

So if I'm understanding correctly, to apply the abilities I should multiply the stat (not base stat) of the pokemon by .75?

Also, a confirmation of how much Supreme Overlord boosts per downed mon would be much appreciated! I'm guessing 10% for each one down is the most likely option but it could be higher or lower.
 
Tested out the "of Ruin" abilities, specifically Tablets of Ruin. Going off the assumption that it's a flat reduction to their damage similar to how Dark/Fairy Aura works, and that GF chose a nice and round %, it seems that it most likely decreases by 25%.

Here's the inverse percentage ranges (due to damage rolls) I got from calculating on the wild pokemon I had saved in front of to repeat this and knew its exact stats by catching it in an earlier save:

0.83-0.69
0.93-0.71
0.81-0.62
0.93-0.71
0.84-0.71
0.77-0.65


Since I can count out both 20% and 30% as possibilities, 25% is the one I find the most likely and is hopefully a number that they use for the other 3 abilities, but I'll test this out later with Swords of Ruin too for safety.

Marty later helped me out to verify using the last range and its potential damage roll:
+1 Lvl 49 0 Atk Falinks Reversal (80 BP) vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Wo-Chien
Actual damage: 74
(96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114) – Unmodified
(72, 72, 74, 74, 74, 78, 78, 78, 78, 80, 80, 80, 84, 84, 84, 86) – with 25% Attack reduction
(72, 72, 73, 73, 73, 76, 76, 76, 78, 78, 81, 81, 81, 82, 82, 85) – with 25% damage reduction
Are you positive there is no chance of it being a fixed Base Stat reduction (Which you would know if you tested on Pokemon with significantly different Attack stats)? A Base Stat reduction of an undetermined number could also end up as a 25% reduction in damage depending on how much is cut from a Pokemon's Base Stat.
 
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Sectonia

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I apologize if this is an exceedingly simple question or if it's already been answered somewhere, but I wanted to check and see if Punching Gloves blocked only moves with the punching flag from making contact, or if it was a flat out better protective pads that blocks every contact move from making contact while also providing a boost for punching moves. The description seems to imply that the contact blocking effect may not be exclusively for punching moves, but it could be poor wording - I wanted some clarity on this topic. Thanks in advance - I appreciate all the hard work everyone does in researching the mechanics!
 
Are you positive there is no chance of it being a fixed Base Stat reduction (Which you would know if you tested on Pokemon with significantly different Attack stats)? A Base Stat reduction of an undetermined number could also end up as a 25% reduction in damage depending on how much is cut from a Pokemon's Base Stat.
No mechanic in Pokemon has ever worked this way.
 
I don't know if anyone asked this yet but how does Ability Shield interact with Klutz in terms of stuff that negates or changes abilities both before and after those things are used?
 

Kalalokki

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Tested the Sword of Ruin now, it does lower the opposing Defense stat by 25%.

The one range I tested: 0.64-0.77

Some calcs:
Lvl 60 0+ Atk Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. Lvl 69 0 HP / 0- Def Garganacl
Actual damage: 124
(80, 82, 82, 84, 84, 86, 86, 88, 88, 90, 90, 92, 92, 94, 94, 96) – Unmodified
(108, 110, 110, 112, 112, 114, 116, 116, 118, 120, 120, 122, 124, 124, 126, 128) – with 25% Defense reduction
(100, 102, 102, 105, 105, 107, 107, 110, 110, 112, 112, 115, 115, 117, 117, 120) – with 25% damage increase

The Ruin abilities don't block each other from working either, tested with Sword and Beads (-Def and -SpDef). The effects of 2 or more users of the same ability doesn't stack however.

Now this was interesting: Tera Blast is only ever a 80 BP special Normal-type move before you Tera, it's not until after that it has the possibility to use a potentially higher Attack stat to calculate its damage. I will test later if it always targets the SpDef tho after you Tera.

Mycelium Might makes you move slowest in the same priority bracket à la Stall or Lagging Tail, it doesn't affect the bracket itself.

Earth Eater does not absorb Spikes when used by an opponent and it does not negate Spikes damage on switch-in.

Gaining Purifying Salt while statused does not heal the status.

Iron Fist and Punching Glove do not stack.

I apologize if this is an exceedingly simple question or if it's already been answered somewhere, but I wanted to check and see if Punching Gloves blocked only moves with the punching flag from making contact, or if it was a flat out better protective pads that blocks every contact move from making contact while also providing a boost for punching moves. The description seems to imply that the contact blocking effect may not be exclusively for punching moves, but it could be poor wording - I wanted some clarity on this topic. Thanks in advance - I appreciate all the hard work everyone does in researching the mechanics!
You're spot on, tested it and it only blocks contact on punching moves, not all contact moves.

Huh, it didn't occur to me the first time I read this, but I just looked at the Trainer data - it looks like aren't supposed to be any NPC-owned Veluza with their HA (Sharpness) in the first place. o.o
I did double-check the raw data in case I messed up the sheet somehow, which is always very possible - it looks like this is public now, so looking here and here, all eight Veluza are either fixed to slot 1 or random between their non-Hidden Abilities. That should completely eliminate Sharpness as an option unless things are working differently than we expect...

This is also strange because the move's damage internally appears to work more like Substitute or Belly Drum (it's hard-coded into the move effect and appears to be a prerequisite for even attempting the rest of the move).
At first, I took at face value that it was just an oversight on the assumption that it was a "negative heal" like Mind Blown - Mind Blown-style recoil is the same column as Heal Pulse's healing, which is known to be affected by Mega Launcher, so I thought it would make sense for the same column to be modified by an equivalent Ability even if it were a total accident...
but since it isn't that column, and in fact the datamined move table doesn't do much to indicate how much the move is supposed to damage the user at all, it is quite a lot stranger to me for this interaction to slip through the cracks unless it was for some reason intentional.

So uh, just to double-check - how confident are you that the Veluza in this interaction had Sharpness at all? Is it possible that the move itself works differently than we thought/that the amount of damage it does to the user can vary, even on Mold Breaker variants...? or can anyone test that HA Veluza do exist on some enemy teams (should be possible to say with confidence because Mold Breaker has an activation message and Sharpness doesn't)?
I'm not confident really, I just know I switched out turn 1 and then it Filet Away and was at 75% before I had even done anything. Don't remember if Mold Breaker activated or not. I'm also running unpatched if that would affect anything.
 
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termi

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Tested the Sword of Ruin now, it does lower the opposing Defense stat by 25%.

The one range I tested: 0.64-0.77

Some calcs:
Lvl 60 0+ Atk Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. Lvl 69 0 HP / 0- Def Garganacl
Actual damage: 124
(80, 82, 82, 84, 84, 86, 86, 88, 88, 90, 90, 92, 92, 94, 94, 96) – Unmodified
(108, 110, 110, 112, 112, 114, 116, 116, 118, 120, 120, 122, 124, 124, 126, 128) – with 25% Defense reduction
(100, 102, 102, 105, 105, 107, 107, 110, 110, 112, 112, 115, 115, 117, 117, 120) – with 25% damage increase

The Ruin abilities don't block each other from working either, tested with Sword and Beads (-Def and -SpDef).

Now this was interesting: Tera Blast is only ever a 80 BP special Normal-type move before you Tera, it's not until after that it has the possibility to use a potentially higher Attack stat to calculate its damage. I will test later if it always targets the SpDef tho after you Tera.


You're spot on, tested it and it only blocks contact on punching moves, not all contact moves.


I'm not confident really, I just know I switched out turn 1 and then it Filet Away and was at 75% before I had even done anything. Don't remember if Mold Breaker activated or not. I'm also running unpatched if that would affect anything.
can we rule out at this point that the modifier for the x of ruin abilities is *0.75 and not *1/1.3? the latter seems like the only other somewhat likely option to me and 124 is still possible as a max roll w/ this as the modifier (which is roughly *0.77 rather than *0.75)
 

Mario With Lasers

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Are you positive there is no chance of it being a fixed Base Stat reduction (Which you would know if you tested on Pokemon with significantly different Attack stats)? A Base Stat reduction of an undetermined number could also end up as a 25% reduction in damage depending on how much is cut from a Pokemon's Base Stat.
Except for Beat Up, Base Stats (the values determined by pokemon species) are never used in battle. The Ruin abilities either interact with damage or with the in-battle stats (the numbers you see in the pokemon's Summary).

can we rule out at this point that the modifier for the x of ruin abilities is *0.75 and not *1/1.3? the latter seems like the only other somewhat likely option to me and 124 is still possible as a max roll w/ this as the modifier (which is roughly *0.77 rather than *0.75)
Wait, why would it be 1/1.3? Wouldn't 75% (3/4) be a more likely modifier, one that's used in the game already (Zygarde's Aura Break)?
 

termi

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Wait, why would it be 1/1.3? Wouldn't 75% (3/4) be a more likely modifier, one that's used in the game already (Zygarde's Aura Break)?
it'd work similarly to a flat -1 to one's stat (1/1.5=0.66667) except the modifier is 1.3 rather than 1.5, kinda like a "nega-life orb" boost. i agree a simple *0.75 modifier is more likely but i don't think we should be making assumptions, better to rule out the possible alternatives entirely
 

KaenSoul

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The Ruin abilities don't block each other from working either, tested with Sword and Beads (-Def and -SpDef).
Would this also apply if both abilities are the same? (stacking up to 3 if in a double battle both fields have two Sword of Ruin active).
 
it'd work similarly to a flat -1 to one's stat (1/1.5=0.66667) except the modifier is 1.3 rather than 1.5, kinda like a "nega-life orb" boost. i agree a simple *0.75 modifier is more likely but i don't think we should be making assumptions, better to rule out the possible alternatives entirely
A 1.3 Boost to your Attacking Stats is the same as 25% Nerf to the opponent's Defensive Stats. As per the description of Fairy/Dark Aura.

Fairy Aura increases the power of Fairy-type attacks by approximately 33% (or more accurately, by a factor of 5448/4096) for all Pokémon on the field. This effect is inverted by Aura Break, instead dividing the power of Fairy-type attacks by 4/3, resulting in a 25% reduction in damage.-Bulbapedia

So in this case the 25% reduction in an opponent's Defensive stat, is the same as a 33% increase in your Attacking Stat.(aka a built in life orb)
 

Kalalokki

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can we rule out at this point that the modifier for the x of ruin abilities is *0.75 and not *1/1.3? the latter seems like the only other somewhat likely option to me and 124 is still possible as a max roll w/ this as the modifier (which is roughly *0.77 rather than *0.75)
It's certainly possible, tried it with the -Atk rolls I got from Tablet of Ruin as well. I'd have to test a lot more and might not do that right away if want to exclude the possibility entirely.
Would this also apply if both abilities are the same? (stacking up to 3 if in a double battle both fields have two Sword of Ruin active).
It doesn't seem to stack.
 
Also, a confirmation of how much Supreme Overlord boosts per downed mon would be much appreciated! I'm guessing 10% for each one down is the most likely option but it could be higher or lower.
RoiDadadou's sheets seem to have that covered.
First fainted ally gives a ×1.2 boost.
Additional fainted allies will then add an additional 0.1 boost.
Revived allies won't remove anything to the multiplier.
In theory, if you're the last in a regular party, the boost should thus be of ×1,6.
 
And speaking of the new "invisible boost", while I did verify myself that Cloud Nine and similar abilities negate the activation of Protosynthesis, what happens if a similar thing happens after the boost was enabled?

Scenario which I wouldn't really have way to test prerelease:
- Protosyntesys/Quark Drive swaps in, boost activates (due to the actual condition being present, not the Booster consumable)
- Condition gets negated or replaced
Bonus: third step
- Condition gets reactivated

Does the boost stay? Does it go away? Does it even get triggered twice at all?

Edit: Somewhat related, can the Booster bonus instead be negated in any way after it's activated?
 
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Theorymon

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Did a few more tests on Commander (I edited in this stuff in the original post on the first post as well).

-Toxic Orb activates on Tatsugiri, even if Dondozo has eaten it. So there's your way to kill Tatsugiri!

-When Dondozo switches in, Commander takes priority over ANYTHING Tatsugiri was going to do. It even CANCELED my attempt to Terrastalyzed Tatsugiri! Thankfully you can still tera another mon after Tatsugiri's tera is canceled.

- Shed Shell DOES NOT work on Dondozo once Commander takes in effect. Seriously, I couldn't switch it out even with Tatsugiri died!

I tested two other things related to Tera too btw!

- Soak fails gainst Terrastalyzed Pokemon.

- I terrastyalzed a Bellibolt into Water, and Thunder Wave DID actually paralyze it. So it seems like Pokemon do not keep their "inherent qualities" if they change types via tera!
 
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Loaded Dice: Earlier we recieved rumors that Loaded Dice skips the 2-3 hit tables entirely on multi hit moves and only goes for 4-5 hits. Has anypne been able to confirm this?

Seed Sower/Toxic Debris: Does it have the properties as Sand Spit, where even if K.O.'d the terrain is set? Does this also apply to Toxic Debris?

Electromophosis: Is it possible to stack Charges? For example, if hit with a multi hit attack, or 2 individual attacks before its next move, will the charges continue to amp up?

Rocky Payload: Does this boost Stealth Rock damage?

Reflect/Light Screen/Aurora Veil: Considering the buffs Ive types got to defense in Snow, have the values for Aurora veil changed? Are the other screens the same values as well?

Doodle: Target data is missing; is it possible to target an ally with this? If so, should the partner have Intimidate, are both intimidates immediately reapplied, or only the one copied by Grafaiai?
 
Commander:
- How does it interact with substitute? (if Tatsugiri has one up and Dodonzo swaps in, and then subsequently when Dodonzo faints).
- If Tatsugiri has a choice scarf and locks into e.g. draco meteor does Tatsugiri remain choice-locked and -2 sp. atk when Dodonzo faints.
- I think it was confirmed you can't 'eat' two Tatsugiri. Was this tested by using two Tatsugiri, or do we know if it also applies if it is the same Dodonzo/Tatsugiri that has been revived and brought back in?

I assume Tatsugiri keeps everything it had when eaten (choice-locked, stat drops, sub up), and reviving doesn't help, but were questions that came to mind.

Doodle:
- As said above, target data is missing. Can it target itself to give its ally prankster?
- How does it interact with other abilities you might want to get rid of. For example, can you overwrite Slaking's truant? What happens if Palafin is already in hero mode and you try to doodle a new ability instead - can you keep the stats and gain an ability? (There may be other similar examples).
 
A 1.3 Boost to your Attacking Stats is the same as 25% Nerf to the opponent's Defensive Stats. As per the description of Fairy/Dark Aura.

Fairy Aura increases the power of Fairy-type attacks by approximately 33% (or more accurately, by a factor of 5448/4096) for all Pokémon on the field. This effect is inverted by Aura Break, instead dividing the power of Fairy-type attacks by 4/3, resulting in a 25% reduction in damage.-Bulbapedia

So in this case the 25% reduction in an opponent's Defensive stat, is the same as a 33% increase in your Attacking Stat.(aka a built in life orb)
life orb is a flat 30% (5324/4096) though, not 33%, so it's not exactly the same, even if very close. it'd be equivalent to a 76.92% multiplier as opposed to 33%'s 75%. probably incredibly unlikely, but still, different
 

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