Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[Givrix]

There's a weird and counterintuitive mechanic that is currently live on showdown, and since it was never tested here yet (or at least proved with a video, sorry about that DarkFE), i wanted to ask about it.

Right now, when an Intimidate Pokemon with an ability shield enters a field where neutralizing gas is already active, Intimidate is triggered as intended, this was already proved in the OP. However, when the neutralizing gas mon leaves the field, Intimidate is triggered again, as if the ability shield doesn't prevent the effect from neutralizing gas, and I think this is odd.

I'm sorry if this is already how it works on cartridge and if I make someone double check for no reason, but this can have huge implications for doubles format, it's for the better if we know for sure the exact interaction early on (maybe i'll be able to test it myself in the coming days but I don't have dlc yet)

 

[DarkFE]

There's a weird and counterintuitive mechanic that is currently live on showdown, and since it was never tested here yet (or at least proved with a video, sorry about that DarkFE), i wanted to ask about it.

Right now, when an Intimidate Pokemon with an ability shield enters a field where neutralizing gas is already active, Intimidate is triggered as intended, this was already proved in the OP. However, when the neutralizing gas mon leaves the field, Intimidate is triggered again, as if the ability shield doesn't prevent the effect from neutralizing gas, and I think this is odd.

I'm sorry if this is already how it works on cartridge and if I make someone double check for no reason, but this can have huge implications for doubles format, it's for the better if we know for sure the exact interaction early on (maybe i'll be able to test it myself in the coming days but I don't have dlc yet)

Great idea! This has actually been changed in an update since I made that old post as far as I can tell, which makes sense considering some other interactions like Hadron Engine + NGas were altered, probably due to the NGas Ability actually being obtainable in the game now. I'll likely backdate my game to check to see if my original post was right at some stage out of curiosity, but not a priority at the moment.

Here's a video proving that Intimidate no longer triggers again when NGas leaves the field if it was able to activate on the Intimidate user's initial entrance thanks to an Ability Shield. It also has a clip attached at the end showing that Intimidate does still trigger when NGas leaves the field if it was never able to activate in the first place, as is to be expected.

Edited just to fix a confusing typo that I overlooked in the initial version.

 

[Cuddly]

Quick thought.
What happens with Ivy Cudgel if the user of the Pokemon is transformed? Both for the transformed Pokemon being Ogerpon Water/Fire/Rock in her mask forms, and more importantly when the transformed Pokemon is Ditto? What happens if Ogerpon transforms into say Pikachu that knows Ivy Cudgel? What happens if Ogerpon transforms into another different form of Ogerpon with Ivy Cudgel? What happens when Ditto transforms into Ogerpon?

 

[CTNC]

What happens if Ditto's holding a mask and Transforms into an Ogerpon with a different mask?

 

[DarkFE]

Quick thought.
What happens with Ivy Cudgel if the user of the Pokemon is transformed? Both for the transformed Pokemon being Ogerpon Water/Fire/Rock in her mask forms, and more importantly when the transformed Pokemon is Ditto? What happens if Ogerpon transforms into say Pikachu that knows Ivy Cudgel? What happens if Ogerpon transforms into another different form of Ogerpon with Ivy Cudgel? What happens when Ditto transforms into Ogerpon?

What happens if Ditto's holding a mask and Transforms into an Ogerpon with a different mask?

Hi again.

• A Ditto that Transforms into an opposing Ogerpon correctly copies the Typing of Ivy Cudgel. For instance, Ditto Transforms into Hearthflame Ogerpon and has access to a Fire-type Ivy Cudgel. - Video
• Ditto still copies the target's Ivy Cudgel typing even if Ditto is holding a Mask that differs from the Transform target's Mask. So if your Ditto holds Cornerstone Mask and Transforms into a Hearthflame Ogerpon, then Ditto's Ivy Cudgel is Fire-type. - Video
• Wellspring Ogerpon Transforming into a Pikachu that knows Ivy Cudgel results in Wellspring Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel becoming Grass-type. - Video
• Hearthflame Ogerpon Transforming into Wellspring Ogerpon results in the Transformed Hearthflame Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel becoming Water-type. - Video

To summarize, Ivy Cudgel seems to become the type of the Transform target's Ivy Cudgel. If the Transform target is not an Ogerpon, that means it reverts to Grass.

Addendum: Unrelated test but minor enough to warrant an edit to avoid double posting: Someone asked me to check if Soak works against Ogerpon. It does work, and it doesn't affect the type of Ivy Cudgel.

 

[RTCanwind]

Hi again.

• A Ditto that Transforms into an opposing Ogerpon correctly copies the Typing of Ivy Cudgel. For instance, Ditto Transforms into Hearthflame Ogerpon and has access to a Fire-type Ivy Cudgel. - Video
• Ditto still copies the target's Ivy Cudgel typing even if Ditto is holding a Mask that differs from the Transform target's Mask. So if your Ditto holds Cornerstone Mask and Transforms into a Hearthflame Ogerpon, then Ditto's Ivy Cudgel is Fire-type. - Video
• Wellspring Ogerpon Transforming into a Pikachu that knows Ivy Cudgel results in Wellspring Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel becoming Grass-type. - Video
• Hearthflame Ogerpon Transforming into Wellspring Ogerpon results in the Transformed Hearthflame Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel becoming Water-type. - Video

To summarize, Ivy Cudgel seems to become the type of the Transform target's Ivy Cudgel. If the Transform target is not an Ogerpon, that means it reverts to Grass.

Addendum: Unrelated test but minor enough to warrant an edit to avoid double posting: Someone asked me to check if Soak works against Ogerpon. It does work, and it doesn't affect the type of Ivy Cudgel.

What would happen if this Ditto chose Terastal?

 

[DarkFE]

What would happen if this Ditto chose Terastal?

Hi. Thanks for the question! This actually gave me several ideas for testing, but I'll answer your question directly first: Ditto doesn't get the option to Tera at all while Transformed into an Ogerpon. Tested with both Ditto Tera Types that match the Ogerpon's forme (Tera Fire Ditto into Hearthflame and Tera Grass Ditto into Teal Mask) and types that don't match (Tera Ghost Ditto into Hearthflame).

Another question related to hacked Ogerpons got into my head while I was doing the testing for the first question, though. I set out to see if an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon could successfully Tera. My first test case was a Tera Fire Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon, while my second test case was a Tera Water Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon. In both cases, the Tera button appeared in the fight menu, but selecting it didn't cause any noticeable effects on the turn, and the Tera button appeared again on the subsequent turn as if nothing had happened. In conclusion, it seems that an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon also cannot Tera, even if you hack the Tera Type to match.

 

[RTCanwind]

Hi. Thanks for the question! This actually gave me several ideas for testing, but I'll answer your question directly first: Ditto doesn't get the option to Tera at all while Transformed into an Ogerpon. Tested with both Ditto Tera Types that match the Ogerpon's forme (Tera Fire Ditto into Hearthflame and Tera Grass Ditto into Teal Mask) and types that don't match (Tera Ghost Ditto into Hearthflame).

Another question related to hacked Ogerpons got into my head while I was doing the testing for the first question, though. I set out to see if an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon could successfully Tera. My first test case was a Tera Fire Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon, while my second test case was a Tera Water Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon. In both cases, the Tera button appeared in the fight menu, but selecting it didn't cause any noticeable effects on the turn, and the Tera button appeared again on the subsequent turn as if nothing had happened. In conclusion, it seems that an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon also cannot Tera, even if you hack the Tera Type to match.

Thank you for your testing and answers! An additional question, what happens when a Ditto that has already tera uses Transform on Ogerpon?And what happens when a Ditto uses Transform on Ogerpon that has already tera ?

 

[AztecCroc]

Hi. Thanks for the question! This actually gave me several ideas for testing, but I'll answer your question directly first: Ditto doesn't get the option to Tera at all while Transformed into an Ogerpon. Tested with both Ditto Tera Types that match the Ogerpon's forme (Tera Fire Ditto into Hearthflame and Tera Grass Ditto into Teal Mask) and types that don't match (Tera Ghost Ditto into Hearthflame).

Another question related to hacked Ogerpons got into my head while I was doing the testing for the first question, though. I set out to see if an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon could successfully Tera. My first test case was a Tera Fire Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon, while my second test case was a Tera Water Hearthflame Ogerpon that Transformed into a Wellspring Ogerpon. In both cases, the Tera button appeared in the fight menu, but selecting it didn't cause any noticeable effects on the turn, and the Tera button appeared again on the subsequent turn as if nothing had happened. In conclusion, it seems that an Ogerpon Transformed into another Ogerpon also cannot Tera, even if you hack the Tera Type to match.

Since you're hacking anyway what happens if you hack Ivy Cudgel onto a non-Ogerpon Pokémon?

 

[Metrona]

Just to confirm, Duraludon, Flapple and Appletun can't use Eviolite, right? The fuckup was only with Dipplin?

Duraludon isnt in the game yet
also its just like how stantler and ursaring could hold eviolite even before ursaluna and wyrdeer were in the game (but basculin did not cause it was white striped form which evolved)

 

[DarkFE]

Thank you for your testing and answers! An additional question, what happens when a Ditto that has already tera uses Transform on Ogerpon?And what happens when a Ditto uses Transform on Ogerpon that has already tera ?

Hi. Thanks for the questions.

• If Ditto itself is Terastallized and attempts to Transform into an Ogerpon, you get a "But it failed!" message. This applies even if the Ditto is holding the appropriate Mask item and has the Tera Type that matches the target Ogerpon's form.
• If Ditto attempts to Transform into a Terastallized Ogerpon, it also results in a "But it failed!" message. Again, this applies even if the Ditto is holding the appropriate Mask item and has the Tera Type that matches the target Ogerpon's form.

Since you're hacking anyway what happens if you hack Ivy Cudgel onto a non-Ogerpon Pokémon?

Ivy Cudgel simply uses its Grass-type variant if the user isn't Ogerpon. The move functions normally as far as I can tell.

 

[Tea Guzzler]

Duraludon isnt in the game yet
also its just like how stantler and ursaring could hold eviolite even before ursaluna and wyrdeer were in the game (but basculin did not cause it was white striped form which evolved)

Duraludon can be hacked into the game with a save editor like PKHeX. From the testing i've gathered, Eviolite doesn't seem to have an effect on Duraludon's bulk. In terms of the Applin line, Eviolite worked for Dipplin but not for Flapple or Appletun.

 

[AztecCroc]

Ivy Cudgel simply uses its Grass-type variant if the user isn't Ogerpon. The move functions normally as far as I can tell.

What if the Pokemon is holding one of the masks?

 

[DarkFE]

What if the Pokemon is holding one of the masks?

Hi. Good question. Holding a Mask doesn't change Ivy Cudgel's typing if the user is not an Ogerpon. It also doesn't change Ivy Cudgel's type if the non-Ogerpon user Terastallizes, even if the Ivy Cudgel user has, say, Hearthflame Mask + Tera Fire.

 

[Missingno. Master]

If Ditto itself is Terastallized and attempts to Transform into an Ogerpon, you get a "But it failed!" message. This applies even if the Ditto is holding the appropriate Mask item and has the Tera Type that matches the target Ogerpon's form.

So, basically, Ogerpon is the new Zacian/Zamazenta/Eternatus in terms of what everyone should bring to Ditto raids?

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

Duraludon can be hacked into the game with a save editor like PKHeX. From the testing i've gathered, Eviolite doesn't seem to have an effect on Duraludon's bulk. In terms of the Applin line, Eviolite worked for Dipplin but not for Flapple or Appletun.

can you hack in archuladon?

 

[Tea Guzzler]

can you hack in archuladon?

No. All of the data for basically every Pokemon is in the SV code but this doesn't include future additions like Archaludon.

 

[Enderevilherobrine]

Given that they are synchronized to seperate form changes if an Ogerpon's tera is hacked to a different typing that doesn't cause a softlock does it give the right stab multipliers? Like if you gave a Cornerstone Ogerpon a fire tera then terastallized it would its stab multipliers be the expected 1.5x to the grass rock and fire types, or would the game be tricked into making it 1.5x to grass and 2x to fire, or possibly even 1.5x to grass and rock but 2x to fire?

 

[R_N]

I feel like this should be a fairly easy slam-dunk assumption, but considering it's literally only on one (bad) Pokemon and the games even at the best of the times can have some...interesting...oversights, I feel the need to ask: Does Illuminate's new effect actually work?

And, I suppose, is there anything about the ability that works differently than Keen Eye (for example, does it still ignore evasion increases on the opponent or does it maybe apply to your partner in doubles) or is it just fully reskinned?
Bulbapedia just presents it as such, but bulbapedia also does a lot of copy paste situations that often aren't right either.

 

[DarkFE]

I feel like this should be a fairly easy slam-dunk assumption, but considering it's literally only on one (bad) Pokemon and the games even at the best of the times can have some...interesting...oversights, I feel the need to ask: Does Illuminate's new effect actually work?

And, I suppose, is there anything about the ability that works differently than Keen Eye (for example, does it still ignore evasion increases on the opponent or does it maybe apply to your partner in doubles) or is it just fully reskinned?
Bulbapedia just presents it as such, but bulbapedia also does a lot of copy paste situations that often aren't right either.

Hi.

Yes, Illuminate does function as the description says, so at least they didn't forget this one. I tried hitting Illuminate Volbeat with a Sand Attack and it displayed the ability popup text and stopped the stat drop. It does seem to allow the user to ignore the target's evasion boosts like Keen Eye does, as shown in this video. It does not seem to allow allies in Doubles to reliably hit evasive targets or to avoid accuracy drops, shown in the same video as the first link.

 

[CPU]

This came up due to an ability-based romhack and I thought I'd ask:

Do Grass Pelt and Surge Surfer work if the Pokémon with them is Flying-type or otherwise airborne?

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. Someone asked me to double check to ensure that Knock Off does not deal increased damage against a Masked Ogerpon. I can confirm that Knock Off does not receive its power boost when attacking an Ogerpon-Hearthflame, as shown here. The video description has test details in this case.

This came up due to an ability-based romhack and I thought I'd ask:

Do Grass Pelt and Surge Surfer work if the Pokémon with them is Flying-type or otherwise airborne?

Yes, both Surge Surfer and Grass Pelt function for airborne Pokemon.

 

[Simsalagrimm]

Hi. Someone asked me to double check to ensure that Knock Off does not deal increased damage against a Masked Ogerpon. I can confirm that Knock Off does not receive its power boost when attacking an Ogerpon-Hearthflame, as shown here. The video description has test details in this case.

So Ogerpon's masks work just as, for example, Zacian's Rusted Sword (in terms of Fling, Switcheroo, Corrosive Gas and so on), don't they?

 

[AztecCroc]

So Ogerpon's masks work just as, for example, Zacian's Rusted Sword (in terms of Fling, Switcheroo, Corrosive Gas and so on), don't they?

They're form changing items, those have never been affected by Knock Off.

 

[Schister]

does anyone know if entrainment affects proto mons? I assume no but I can't find any documentation on it