Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[DaWoblefet]

I posted this in the OU metagame thread a day ago and got told to repost here:

hi everyone. Unfotunately you cant see it in screenshot but i found this interaction interesting and i wanted to see if it was known or not? Showdown Halves the damage of a move when you are burnt. in turn 9 of this battle, I tera ground with excadrill and get burnt by flare blitz. Usually earthquake would be 50bp but its raised to 60 with tera. does cartridge work this way? i know showdown halves the power of a move when you are burnt, is that how it usually works or does cartridge halve your attack stat? thanks

Neither. Burn halves the damage of physical attacks. It doesn't halve attack or BP. So being burned has no impact on whether or not a move gets the BP bump to 60.

This isn't a thread about Showdown's client, but halving BP was arbitrarily chosen as a way to represent physical attacks being approximately half as powerful. If Earthquake was showing 60 BP in the situation you described, that's a bug and should be posted in bug reports.

 

[tommytt22]

Neither. Burn halves the damage of physical attacks. It doesn't halve attack or BP. So being burned has no impact on whether or not a move gets the BP bump to 60.

This isn't a thread about Showdown's client, but halving BP was arbitrarily chosen as a way to represent physical attacks being approximately half as powerful. If Earthquake was showing 60 BP in the situation you described, that's a bug and should be posted in bug reports.

thanks for the direction i knew it didnt seem correct
ill report it

 

[Enderevilherobrine]

Does Parental Bond Fickle Beam go all out twice guaranteed or does it roll separate checks for each hit?

 

[Anubis]

Does Parental Bond Fickle Beam go all out twice guaranteed or does it roll separate checks for each hit?

Fickle Beam + Parental Bond only rolls once when you click the move, so both hits are calculated with 80 BP or both hits are calculated with 160 BP. You only get one animation either way and then it tells you if you did 1 or 2 hits.

debug from all-out attack and regular attack

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 40, 0x000000255f551ab0 in ?? ()
$534 = 0
$535 = "rand100 check"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 42, 0x000000255f382ec8 in ?? ()
$536 = 160
$537 = "move BP for first hit"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 38, 0x000000255f382ee8 in ?? ()
$538 = 4096
$539 = "targetDamageRatio"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 39, 0x000000255f382f04 in ?? ()
$540 = 137
$541 = "damage after targetDamageRatio modified"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 42, 0x000000255f382ec8 in ?? ()
$542 = 160
$543 = "move BP for second hit"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 38, 0x000000255f382ee8 in ?? ()
$544 = 1024
$545 = "targetDamageRatio"

Thread 2 "MainThread" hit Breakpoint 39, 0x000000255f382f04 in ?? ()
$546 = 34
$547 = "damage after targetDamageRatio modified"

---

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 40, 0x000000255f551ab0 in ?? ()
$554 = 84
$555 = "rand100 check"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 42, 0x000000255f382ec8 in ?? ()
$556 = 80
$557 = "move BP for first hit"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 38, 0x000000255f382ee8 in ?? ()
$558 = 4096
$559 = "targetDamageRatio"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 39, 0x000000255f382f04 in ?? ()
$560 = 69
$561 = "damage after targetDamageRatio modified"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 42, 0x000000255f382ec8 in ?? ()
$562 = 80
$563 = "move BP for second hit"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 38, 0x000000255f382ee8 in ?? ()
$564 = 1024
$565 = "targetDamageRatio"

Thread 12 "JobThread1" hit Breakpoint 39, 0x000000255f382f04 in ?? ()
$566 = 17
$567 = "damage after targetDamageRatio modified"

 

[Zrp200]

primal sun doesn't interact with Orichalcum Pulse and Protosynthesis.

Source on the former? I thought it was established that it did interact with Orichalcum Pulse, just not Protosynthesis.

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. Anubis beat me to the Fickle Beam + Parental Bond question, but I still have plenty of other information to share that I collected while I was checking that.

Was it ever explicitly confirmed whether the tera BP modifier for moves with 60 BP or below applies before or after Sharpness or other non-Technician boosting abilities? Basically wondering whether Kleavor's Tera Bug Fury Cutter is 60 or 90 BP. The calc says 60.

I'm not sure what other abilities this would be relevant to (and I really don't understand how the damage formula works) but maybe things like Sheer Force or Tough Claws? Mega Launcher has no relevant moves. Edit: oops yeah terrain pulse AztecCroc

Sharpness appears to apply before the Same Type Tera BP Minimum. This means that Fury Cutter under your conditions is only 60 base power rather than 90.

Does Tera 60 BP lower limit affect ...(snip to remove answered aspects)... moves affected by Parental Bond?

Yes. The Same Type Tera 60 Base Power Minimum seems to apply to both hits of a move boosted by Parental Bond, though the second hit is a weakened 60 as would normally be the case for Parental Bond moves. This is consistent with Triage- and Prankster-boosted moves receiving the Tera BP Minimum.

Since Mold Breaker can be negated by Ability Shield, I take it that it also prevents user's ability from being disabled in some interactions. Then does Ability Shield:

• allow the user's contact abilities like Iron Barbs, Rough Skin or Static to go through Protective Pads, Punching Glove, Long Reach andMagic Guard?
• make user's abilities like Emergency Exit or Berserk activate against foe's Sheer Force-boosted attack?
• cancel each other if like say, a Mold Breaker using a Fire move against a Flash Fire Pokemon and both have Ability Shield?
• protect user's Dark/Fairy Aura from Aura Break?
• make Mold Breaker go through Shadow Shield?
• affect user's or ally's moves? In particular, a user with Soundproof and Ability Shield uses Howl when there's Neutralizing Gas? Or ally with Mold Breaker uses Howl.
• 's effect wear off when user faints? Meaning Aftermath from a Pokemon can't activate against Neutralizing Gas.

• Ability Shield Rough Skin still doesn't damage Protective Pads attackers or Long Reach attackers.
• Sheer Force-boosted moves still cannot activate the target's Berserk even if that target holds an Ability Shield.
• Ability Shield Mold Breaker using Fire Punch into Ability Shield Flash Fire still boosts the Flash Fire target and still deals no damage to it.
• Ability Shield Fairy Aura is not protected from the damage lowering effect of Aura Break.
• Ability Shield Mold Breaker cannot bypass Shadow Shield.
• Soundproof Pokemon holding an Ability Shield can block an ally's Mold Breaker Howl
• Howl boosts a user with Soundproof anyway, with or without involving other factors like NGas and Ability Shields. This was changed last generation I believe.
• Ability Shield Aftermath functions while Neutralizing Gas is on the field.

Several of these were probably already covered somewhere considering the age of this post, but I couldn't find them if they were and I thought I may as well cover a lot of them since I was going to cover one of them anyway.

Source on the former? I thought it was established that it did interact with Orichalcum Pulse, just not Protosynthesis.

You're correct. Desolate Land's sunlight does boost the Attack stat of an Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon.

Hope this helps.

 

[Eriorguez]

This may not have much of an use, but, does Sketch work with Behemoth Blade/Bash? Seeing those moves turn into Iron Head out of battle due to the doggos being weird, it may be worth a try.

 

[R_N]

This may not have much of an use, but, does Sketch work with Behemoth Blade/Bash? Seeing those moves turn into Iron Head out of battle due to the doggos being weird, it may be worth a try.

Oh, the Home thread actually had an answer to this
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...or-real-this-time.3721612/page-8#post-9901135

In addition to Freeze Shock/Ice Burn, there are four other moves that for the first time are now possible to import into Home via Smeargle sketches: Glacial Lance, Astral Barrage, Behemoth Blade, and Behemoth Bash (no Torque moves unfortunately; those are specifically marked as unsketchable along with Dark Void, Hyperspace Fury, Revival Bessing, and Tera Starstorm). However, ILCA didn't seem to take these moves into account, and if you move a Smeargle that knows them into Home, the moveslots will show up on the mobile version with no name and a PLA mastery icon for some reason (whereas Freeze Shock and Ice Burn, which were available from the beginning, display normally, and the Switch version of Home does list the move names correctly). The new moves still get counted, though--the records section "Moves registered" can now go up to 826, even though using the Pokedex search function to display "All Moves" only lists 822.

 

[doipy hooves]

Speaking of not-really-competitive-relevant mechanics, since I noticed a weird interaction with Dragon Cheer, I am curious if it has some weird quirk.

As I stated in the raid thread, in raids it can be only used once, after which you get a "But it failed" message even if all 3 allies died and thus don't have the buff anymore.

(event sequence: I use Dragon Cheer t1, animation and buffs apply correctly, all 3 allies die within a couple turns, I attempt to use it again and get the failed message)

What exactly is Dragon Cheer checking to determine if it's successful?

It turns out this was just a bug where Dragon Cheer persisted when you switch out and in (or faint) that will be fixed in 3.0.1.
https://sv-news.pokemon.co.jp/ja/page/189.html

 

[Je-Muzu]

Have the mechanics changed regarding immunity abilities in the latest patch, because I remember a storm drain Pokémon used to get the boost and the heal from Life dew. I have tried the same with Jungle healing and Sap sipper and that only gives the attack boost. Has this ever been the case before or am I misremembering?

 

[Marshadow202]

How does Revelation Dance interact with Stellar Type? I ask because Revelation Dance changes its type to match the users, but Stellar works differently from the other types in the game.

 

[Vinc2612]

It keeps the previous type

Remains the same primary type - so Fire for Oricorio Baile, Electric for Pom Pom, etc.

 

[Hydrametr0nice]

"Poison Puppeteer does not activate if the user is not Pecharunt."
Is this true?

 

[DarkFE]

"Poison Puppeteer does not activate if the user is not Pecharunt."
Is this true?

Hi. Yes, this is accurate. I tested it in this post. Hope this helps.

 

[razorsharp3000]

I probably missed this in the thread, but does Judgment turn to Stellar type when Arceus teras?

 

[R_N]

I probably missed this in the thread, but does Judgment turn to Stellar type when Arceus teras?

Judgement is tied to the base type/the plate, not the tera type
It's handy(/annoying if you forget) for tera raids

 

[AztecCroc]

Judgement is tied to the base type/the plate, not the tera type
It's handy(/annoying if you forget) for tera raids

It's the plate specifically, not the user's type. If Smeargle Sketches Judgement and holds one of the plates, Judgement will become the type of that plate.

 

[sumwun]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but is it true that Pokemon can forget moves when transferring from an older game into gen 8 or gen 9, even if the move still exists? Like Gliscor forgets roost when transferred into SV?

 

[Eriorguez]

Home stores movesets in a per-game mode since the BDSP/Legends update. Pokemon stored in HOME will have up to 4 movesets: Bank/Let's Go/SwSh, BDSP, Legends and SV.

Since the SV update, moves known in one of those can be reminder when transfering to a different one, IF the move is in the learnable moves list for that game.

So, you can't get Heat Wave in Zapdos in BDSP, as there is no way to teach Zapdos that move in those games, but, if your Bank Zapdos had Heat Wave, if you send it to SV you can teach it said move from Home, without using a TM.

 

[sumwun]

If it's possible to remember moves from the previous game, why is roost Gliscor still illegal?

 

[R_N]

If it's possible to remember moves from the previous game, why is roost Gliscor still illegal?

Because of this part specifically:

Home stores movesets in a per-game mode since the BDSP/Legends update. Pokemon stored in HOME will have up to 4 movesets: Bank/Let's Go/SwSh, BDSP, Legends and SV.

Since the SV update, moves known in one of those can be reminder when transfering to a different one, IF the move is in the learnable moves list for that game.

So, you can't get Heat Wave in Zapdos in BDSP, as there is no way to teach Zapdos that move in those games, but, if your Bank Zapdos had Heat Wave, if you send it to SV you can teach it said move from Home, without using a TM.

Gliscor does not learn Roost in SV. Because of this, transferred Gliscor can use Roost in BDSP (where it can learn it) but cannot use Roost in SV (or Legends Arceus though that matters less).

 

[Eriorguez]

Yeah, with no trading between different sets of games (or matching sets of actual 'mons in the games), this effectively means game-exclusive moves are restricted to those specific games. This is also why the Scald/Knock Off distribution nerfs are effective.

Event moves are in a bit of a weird spot tho.

 

[Worldie]

Event moves are in a bit of a weird spot tho.

It's more a case of GameFreaks having over time given back a few event moves to certain pokemon that lost them over the time. Expecially some of the former XD ones like Follow Me Magmar.
Doesn't look like there's a specific logic or pattern of when/if they do it, es the dogs got Extreme Speed back, but Heatran never got to relearn Eruption, and the aforementioned XD moves were stuck as "XD only" until this gen despite several of the pokemon having been in gen 7/8 games.

 

[Eriorguez]

Then we get the movie tie-ins such as V-Create Rayquaza, Fusion Bolt/Flare Victini, or Spacial Rend/Roar of Time Darkrai and Arceus...

 

[AztecCroc]

Home stores movesets in a per-game mode since the BDSP/Legends update. Pokemon stored in HOME will have up to 4 movesets: Bank/Let's Go/SwSh, BDSP, Legends and SV.

Since the SV update, moves known in one of those can be reminder when transfering to a different one, IF the move is in the learnable moves list for that game.

So, you can't get Heat Wave in Zapdos in BDSP, as there is no way to teach Zapdos that move in those games, but, if your Bank Zapdos had Heat Wave, if you send it to SV you can teach it said move from Home, without using a TM.

SwSh and Bank are the same moveset, Pokémon can retain transfer moves from gen 7 and earlier in SwSh.