SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

In case you're curious, these will be the remaining unused type combos after launch:
Normal/Ice
Normal/Bug
Normal/Rock
Normal/Steel
Fire/Fairy
Ice/Poison
Ground/Fairy
Bug/Dragon
Rock/Ghost

Fighting/Ground and Fighting/Fairy are possibly on this list with both having Pokemon thought to be those types but not decisively known. Either way it's getting down to the wire at this point, not much left that isn't overly esoteric Normal combos

...Huh, we really don't have a Fire/Fairy or a Rock/Ghost? Those just feel like such natural type combos to me that I'm shocked they haven't shown up at some point.

Anywho, all the dual-types this gen (particularly Normals) really do leave me wondering if GF is aiming to knock out all the possible type combos at some point in the near future. Obviously not this gen, but maybe for the 30th anniversary they want to accomplish that? Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself with that guess, but hey, when has grasping at straws ever failed a Pokemon fan?
 
IDK, if they didn't want Intimidate to be so good in Doubles, maybe they should have chosen to not allow Incineroar, the best Intimidate user, in the game (balance was a supposed purpose of Dexit)...
...or barring that, they definitely shouldn't buff Incineroar by giving it an even better pivot move. There's no way they'd do that, right? Right?
Arcanine would have likely held its spot (until Landoge came out) in that case. Arcanine's been a pretty big staple in the past few generation's regional dexes for a lot of similar reasons that Incin is great and likely will do so again this time too.

Nah, Intimidate is just an incredible ability in general for VGC.

Edit: Also, FFS DHELMISE IS BACK AGAIN?!
 
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Intimidate is just strong af. -1 Atk on switch-in is good no matter how you slice it.

There isn't a lot that can be done to nerf it without completely neutralizing it because its concept core is just that strong.
Just add more abilities that are immune to it or are benefited. There are already:
-Hyper Cutter.
-Clear Body.
-Defiant.
-Competitive.
-Contrary.
-Inner Focus.
-Scrappy.
-Oblivious and Own Tempo? I don't remember right now which of them or maybe both.
-Steadfast I think?
-Neutralizing Gas

Abilities that could be added:
-Unaware . The Mon is Unaware about the foe being intimidating. Current Unaware Mons don't really benefit from this, but if some new one appears, it could.
-Justified. The Mon protects the weak and doesn't care about dangerous foes. These ones do actually benefit.
-Reckless. The Mon is dumb and ignores danger. Staraptor now doesn't care about Lando-T at all!
-Intrepid Sword?

Edited now that I have think another one:
-Opposite Intimidate. If both opponents are intimidated, no one is really more scared than the other one, so they could neutralize themselves.

Edited again with another very specific one:
-Gulp Missile. With its crappy (seriously, why did they make this Mon almost unviable? At least in Pokemon Unite its broken) stats, Cramorant is badass ( and dumb) enough to eat PIKACHU, who can fry it with Lightball + STAB Boosted Thunderbolt at any moment, even from inside. Do you really think this Majestic and (never better said) Brave bird has some fear or respect for inferior plebs like Incineroar or Lando?
 
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IDK, if they didn't want Intimidate to be so good in Doubles, maybe they should have chosen to not allow Incineroar, the best Intimidate user, in the game (balance was a supposed purpose of Dexit)...
...or barring that, they definitely shouldn't buff Incineroar by giving it an even better pivot move. There's no way they'd do that, right? Right?
Speaking of balance, are there any moves unusable in Gen VIII that are back for SV?
So many awesome fighting types, including a Ground/Fighting type based on one of my favorite Gen 2 Pokémon.

Screw the haters, this game rules.
I wonder if Gems are confirmed to return, Gen V 2: The Squeakel is going to be hilarious with the addition of Fairies.
-Gulp Missile. With its crappy (seriously, why did they make this Mon almost unviable? At least in Pokemon Unite its broken) stats, Cramorant is badass ( and dumb) enough to eat PIKACHU, who can fry it with Lightball + STAB Boosted Thunderbolt at any moment, even from inside. Do you really think this Majestic and (never better said) Brave bird has some fear or respect for inferior plebs like Incineroar or Lando?
I'm crossing my fingers for more BST buffs.
 

AquaticPanic

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I think the most terrifying thing so far is the fact that there are two new mushroom mons. Those are very much characterized by being Spore users.

The issue? If Toadscool and Toadscruel keep the same BST as Tentacool and Tentacruel, we have a final evo with 510 BST and Spore. Meanwhile, Paradoxes are said to have "legendary stats", meaning Past Amoonguss has Spore with 540 to 600 BST
 
They should just make intimidate work on subsequent switch ins only if the mon hard-switched out. No more parting shot / u-turn cycling. :)

Not sure what the actual supposed nerf will be, since apparently the legendary quartet will also get some sort of debuff abilities, if I recall. Khu at least predicted one of them would be busted in vgc.

Re: paradox BST, Khu said that only some of them get a new ability and BST ("nobles/knights") and several basically just get cosmetic changes and new types ("commoners"). Not clear which are which yet, or how accurate this assessment is. (e.g., several people were taking his comments about wigglet too literally and expecting a straight-up pallette swap with water typing, so for all we know "commoner" paradox mons still have some BST adjustments but not as striking as the "nobles")
 
If all those leaks end up true (pretty likely at this point):
- Gimme my bug/dark mon gamefreak NOW
- Paradox forms could potentially be interesting, but I'd have to see them for myself to decide (also what are they gonna do to not make past jigglypuff and future delibird hopelessly weak)
- Who on earth thought giving bisharp an evo was a good idea?!?!
-Dunsparce evo yay!
Idk what else to add ._.
 
Speaking of balance, are there any moves unusable in Gen VIII that are back for SV?
Bellibolt was seen using Mud Bomb which was unusable in SWSH and BDSP though added back in PLA if you count that.
Re: paradox BST, Khu said that only some of them get a new ability and BST ("nobles/knights") and several basically just get cosmetic changes and new types ("commoners"). Not clear which are which yet, or how accurate this assessment is. (e.g., several people were taking his comments about wigglet too literally and expecting a straight-up pallette swap with water typing, so for all we know "commoner" paradox mons still have some BST adjustments but not as striking as the "nobles")
Personally I took his comments in a different way based on this post by soulsilverart and I'll link the relevant images/tweets here.
1666184194153.png
1666184212120.png
1666184251412.png

Specifically he points out that the nobles will get buffs from their "leaders", which has been said to be the box legendaries among the classes of paradoxes. This may be related to how "some of the new concept mons share a new mutual ability" and maybe involves an interaction with the box legendary abilities.

For context, randomly saying "Drought Electric Surge" is what some people think is a hint to the box legend abilities setting something on top of his recent tweet relating them to Groudon and Kyogre, and Khu has said he has told the box legend abilities 5 days after that post. Speaking of which, based on Kaka's hints, their Japanese names are along the lines of "Scarlet Beat" and "Halogen Engine".

Also on the power of paradoxes, he called them "very powerful in battles" and "op mons".
 
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KaenSoul

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Re: paradox BST, Khu said that only some of them get a new ability and BST ("nobles/knights") and several basically just get cosmetic changes and new types ("commoners"). Not clear which are which yet, or how accurate this assessment is. (e.g., several people were taking his comments about wigglet too literally and expecting a straight-up pallette swap with water typing, so for all we know "commoner" paradox mons still have some BST adjustments but not as striking as the "nobles")
This is what doesn't let me sleep at night, Delibird better be a noble somehow because not even Huge Power could fix 330 BST with just small adjustments. And we are talking about Game Freak here, the same that made Mega-Audino and Mega-Salamence.
I wonder if it will be revealed soon, super Saint Nicholas seems perfect to market a game so close to holydays.
 
I can see "Commoners" having more in the ball park for 530~550 BST while "Nobles" have 570~600


With so many unevolved or evolved-but-kinda-low-BST pokemon being paradoxes I'd find it hard to believe that Ancient Jigglypuff, a design I'm already not thrilled with if your'e going to call it its own Pokemon, would still carry around its pitiful BST.
 
Not gonna lie, I'm not a big fan conceptually of paradox forms, at least as the leakers are describing them. Then again, these leakers rarely do a great job at selling the content they're describing (especially the fucking "riddler" leakers; can we stop giving these parasites attention and put the malignant social tumor they represent into remission already?), and Khu is kind of an idiot anyways, so we'll see what they're actually like when the games are released.
 

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
A few of my observations:

- If the mouse pokemon is indeed getting Parental Bond, then Aerilate is now the only ability that has never been used outside of a Mega Evolution (besides Mega Rayquaza's Delta Stream, but that gets excused for me since it is a cover legendary). So is it possible there is a new Flying-type that could have Aerilate, or are they leaving that exclusive to Mega Pinsir and Mega Salamence?

- Glameow and Venonat lines were passed up again? (Venonat is now the only line from the first two generations never used in any later generation's Pokedex, and Glameow is perhaps the rarest normal Pokemon of all, only ever being available in Pearl/Shining Pearl, PLA, and a couple of obscure locations in gen 5 and 6)

- While I like the idea of the Paradox formes, I was disappointed at all three of Salamence, Hydreigon and Tyranitar getting them - couldn't it have been an opportunity to take some weaker Pokemon and give them stronger formes instead?

- Weavile looks pretty problematic in SV OU, as others have mentioned, and Tera Pult looks particularly nasty with so many Dark-resists gone.

- Whatever they say, I am not accepting that Wiglett does not share some connection with Diglett, and if it evolves into Wugtrio that is even lazier.

- I'm quite surprised the Gen 8 starters aren't making it in. I'm assuming we got the three PLA starters because they're the latest game and they didn't want to leave out any Hisui formes, the Gen 6 ones because they're the only ones not featured at all in Gen 8, and Charizard for fanservice. I would have thought it'd be a no-brainer to use the latest new starters, like in SW/SH where we could get Gen 1 and 7 starters straight away as they were the starters in the most recent games. Likewise, Hoopa, one of two mythicals not in Gen 8, not being in but Mew, Diancie, Victini and Magearna all making it seems strange.

- Those balance changes are interesting, as is that possible weather change and the Rest PP nerf we saw. Is this perhaps the closest so far to a fifth version of the basic standards of battle? Regenerator and recovery move PP nerf would affect a lot in OU and is probably the biggest change to the core of play since Stealth Rock.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
- Glameow and Venonat lines were passed up again? (Venonat is now the only line from the first two generations never used in any later generation's Pokedex, and Glameow is perhaps the rarest normal Pokemon of all, only ever being available in Pearl/Shining Pearl, PLA, and a couple of obscure locations in gen 5 and 6)
Venonat has been known to be in the game via official trailers for a while now, actually!

Side-note about Paradoxes: I find it really amusing how Tyranitar, Volcarona and Hydreigon are all getting some. You would think that the game whose central mechanic is making your Pokemon giant would be the one stuffed with Kaiju Pokemon fanservice but I guess not
 

AquaticPanic

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- If the mouse pokemon is indeed getting Parental Bond, then Aerilate is now the only ability that has never been used outside of a Mega Evolution (besides Mega Rayquaza's Delta Stream, but that gets excused for me since it is a cover legendary). So is it possible there is a new Flying-type that could have Aerilate, or are they leaving that exclusive to Mega Pinsir and Mega Salamence?
I think it'd be amazing if Paradox Hydreigon, as a Dark/Flying, had its main Flying STAB be Aerilate Tri Attack. Probably not happening as paradoxes probably have a shared ability, but damn it would that be hilarious
 
(especially the fucking "riddler" leakers; can we stop giving these parasites attention and put the malignant social tumor they represent into remission already?)
The sheer power trip that these people get on over leaking a video game has to be one of the strangest phenomena ever to me, but then again, here we are talking about them and the stuff they're leaking, so I guess I can't comment.

That aside, I really don't know what to think of Paradoxes with the (very) limited info we have available to us as of now. For now, I'll just hope that they don't actually all share an ability - I think the UBs doing that in Gen 7 made them feel oddly homogenuous in a way and it didn't fit all of their playstyles, so I wouldn't really care to see that repeated.
 
Bellibolt was seen using Mud Bomb which was unusable in SWSH and BDSP though added back in PLA if you count that.

Personally I took his comments in a different way based on this post by soulsilverart and I'll link the relevant images/tweets here.
View attachment 459609View attachment 459610View attachment 459611
Specifically he points out that the nobles will get buffs from their "leaders", which has been said to be the box legendaries among the classes of paradoxes. This may be related to how "some of the new concept mons share a new mutual ability" and maybe involves an interaction with the box legendary abilities.

For context, randomly saying "Drought Electric Surge" is what some people think is a hint to the box legend abilities setting something on top of his recent tweet relating them to Groudon and Kyogre, and Khu has said he has told the box legend abilities 5 days after that post. Speaking of which, based on Kaka's hints, their Japanese names are along the lines of "Scarlet Beat" and "Halogen Engine".

Also on the power of paradoxes, he called them "very powerful in battles" and "op mons".
Sounds relatively easy to guess that the Paradox mons will interact with the cover legends in some way that they will get buffed.

The obvious way to have that happen is to tie them together with Abilities, especially if the whole "Scarlet Beat/Halogen Engine" ability leak for the cover legends is correct.

This likely means that the "Noble Paradoxes" will have it, and the shitmons will have regular stuff.

I can't say I'm well-informed about them BST-wise. Maybe one of the leakers has already talked about it and I missed it.

As for who are the big winners... Let's be real, there are very obvious suspects for each group. Especially with Khu straight up mentioning "Shillmons".

(Reminder that all art in the MakioDex is fanart.)
Source: https://www.makio.it/pokemon/sv-dex/paradox





Suicune and Virizion, as legendaries and likely DLC mons, are obviously going to have that "noble thing".

With the idea of "Shillmons and shitmons" in mind, it's a pretty decent guess that Volcarona, Salamence/TTar and Hydreigon will have it. On the Ancient Side, I can only guess that Amoonguss, as the only fully evolved mon of the bunch, is the counterpart to Hydreigon on that front.

Donphan might be a toss-up. It could have it or not based on the same reason, the fact that it has both an Ancient and Future Paradox form.

It could be elevated to "Noble" status because of that and the other case, Volcarona, being an obvious pick for it. Not to mention it shares a typing and potentially some design choice with the cover legends.

On the other hand, it might not happen to set them apart more and to even out the number of "Commoners" and "Nobles". I'd guess Donphan is a "Noble" tho.

And then there were the mooks...

The key to figuring them out is the Ancient mons. Puff, Missy and Magneton aren't even in their final form. That means a remix and potentially a BST buff (Or not) is what they're getting. This also helps the Paradox group as a whole to not feel as homogeneous as the UBs did in a way.

Taking that into consideration, Future Delibird will probably not be delivering cans of whoop-ass and Future Gallade and Hariyama are likely on the same boat as Magneton as solid, potentially cool mons with a unique ability compared to the rest of the paradoxes.
 
Not so hot take: Bisharp getting an evolution is meh, as it was already quite good and had high stats. Stuff like, I dunno, Swoobat, would have worked better.

Same with Ursaluna, really. Ursaring may not be a great Pokemon, but it is still something with a stat total of 500, and a stat spread quite similar to Machamp's. Megas were an elegant solution for those, and having both Megas and crossgen evos around for different things would be the optimal approach IMO.
 

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