SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

Most of the Pokemon playerbase hasn't figured out how to put their pants on in the morning either. I think feature removal based on usage is... quite dumb. Here's the plethora of mechanics and features that only a small percentage of overall playerbase knows about/uses that could be removed by that logic (that haven't been removed in Gen 8-9 already):
  • EVs/IVs
  • STAB
  • Egg Moves
  • Breeding
  • Competitive/Boosting items
  • Online competitive modes
  • Shiny Pokemon
  • Transferring Pokemon
  • Ribbons
  • Text Speed
  • Non-Automatic Saving
  • Turning off cutscenes
  • Most Pokeball Types
  • Most of the Pokemon added each Gen
  • The Pokedex/Pokemon Descriptions
  • Pokemon Amie/Refresh/WhateverTheHellTheSandwichThingIsSupposedToBe
  • Raids
For all of those, below 10% of the playerbase actually uses those mechanics. Some of those fall even below 1%. The vast majority of players buy the game, do one play through to whatever the story endpoint is (or don't ever get that far), and literally never touch it again. To get to that point, you really only need a few mechanics.
This is a belated response, but I was typing something else when I saw your post and it's been haunting me for a couple of days now. Because what are you talking about? #ShinyPokemon is trending on Twitter every time a new game releases, and most of the rest of these things are covered by in-game Trainer Schools. That includes SV's own academy—I'm in Math 6 hearing about STAB from Tyme as I write this, and I recall other games raising the subject much earlier. Folks use these things even if they haven't been online long enough to know the technical term for them.

You'd have to be virtually illiterate to play the games in AD 2022 and never read the PokéDex, never go raiding, never chuck a Nest Ball, never adjust the game options, never discover STAB, or never learn about Shiny Pokémon. They're not as strictly hammered into the player's skull as the ubiquitous catching tutorial, but they're all in the games and often just lying in plain sight for the casual player to engage with them.

Like, EVs and IVs remain pointlessly obtuse, but it's the only thing on this list other than ribbons that's vaguely obscure. Everyone knows about things like opening the options menu and breeding Pokémon, and it's especially younger people with time on their hands (the target audience) that pick up the latter kind of thing. I'm getting older myself, but your estimation of the younger playerbase's level of engagement is ridiculously bleak.

And this problem is only going to get worse and worse. I didn't bother writing up how SV will fork these paths even more. And, sorry if this is a bit rant-y, but I just want to illustrate how exhausting and exhaustingly complicated these feature removals are. There's a lot of feature inter-dependency that doesn't get touched upon enough. So really, removing features "beacuse no one uses them" is just a bad argument.
You're not wrong. I want to be clear: I'm not saying your point is wrong. Dare I even say you are right. I'm just flummoxed by the proposition that only 10% of the playerbase would care about the loss of those things. You're not alone in caring about them. Yours might not even be the minority opinion. In the digital age, young people absorb these mechanics faster than ever before.
 
My estimation of the playerbase in general is ridiculously bleak any time i do online randoms
i've met plenty of people who just don't know any of the random extraneous shit in these games
multiple grown adults did not realize the classes were an actual thing you could do and i had to point them to it
And other people just do not, and will not ever, care.

Some things cross generational boundaries, and it's not particularly new news that most people who play video games don't really play them to completion, much less interact with side content, much less the mroe involved aspects. It's why it's notable when things like Last of Us had a really high completion rating judging by its achievements.

I'm not even saying this as cynicism really, just, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of Pokemon players probably do in fact not read the pokedex or interact with raids or hell probably dont even do more than a few gyms or just chuck the default ball that comes up etc etc. That's just how these things go in general.
 
I'mma keep it real with you.

If there ain't any rewards tied to the school stuff, I'm not even setting foot in it. :totodiLUL:
There are rewards!
most of them are kind of whatever (the Exam prizes are insanely stupid), but theres some okay things in there tied to the social links the teacher side quests you get by taking the classes.


SPEAKING OF WHICH i hit pay dirt. Found a 5* Normal Pawmot who could do basically nothing to Koraidon and it dropped the Sweet Mystica Herb first try. All that for a slowpoke cup lmao.

Oh cute there's little post-post game events with the main trio in the school too. Shower me in flavor text


Interesting way to say "open the serebii page and cheat the exams"
Me personally I simply aced the exams through memory of the classes
 
Me personally I simply aced the exams through memory of the classes
Same. The classes are unskippable prerequisites for the examinations, so the player is almost forced to learn something.

If there ain't any rewards tied to the school stuff, I'm not even setting foot in it.
The (very suspicious) history teacher also has a lot to say about the Ruinous Treasures. I'm currently trying to unleash Wo-Chien as the game intended, and knowing in advance that there are 8 stakes is helpful. How many I've actually pulled at this time remains... unclear. I wasn't counting, and the game is rather opaque in that respect.
 
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You know I made that whole post in the Story thread about some of the oddities about the finale and then the post game Arven bit literally brings that contradiction into view anyway....
Same. The classes are unskippable prerequisites for the examinations, so the player is almost forced to learn something.



The (very suspicious) history teacher also has a lot to say about the Ruinous Treasures. I'm currently trying to unleash Wo-Chien as the game intended, and knowing in advance that there are 8 stakes is helpful. How many I've actually pulled at this time remains... unclear. I wasn't counting, and the game is rather opaque in that respect.
Every 2 stakes you pull out will remove one of the stakes from the wall. You can actually directly fly to each shrine so while you're still probably going to reference a guide eventually, you can track how many you've gotten that way. There will also be an announcement telling you to go to a shrine when you've pulled all 8.
 
Unrelated note: I'm noticing the animations in this game are poorly synced with status conditions. A Pokémon will slow down its idle animation when it's about to be paralyzed by something that will happen later in the turn. Likewise, a sleeping Pokémon will speed up its idle animation after selecting a move if it's going to awaken when it acts on its turn.

You know I made that whole post in the Story thread about some of the oddities about the finale and then the post game Arven bit literally brings that contradiction into view anyway....

Every 2 stakes you pull out will remove one of the stakes from the wall. You can actually directly fly to each shrine so while you're still probably going to reference a guide eventually, you can track how many you've gotten that way. There will also be an announcement telling you to go to a shrine when you've pulled all 8.
Gotcha. I did visit the shrine before starting my hunt, so I must have been at 1 or 0 stakes at the time. The history teacher marks the shrines on the map.
 
I think you're misunderstanding the overall point.

The "average player", while clearly a very nebulous term, is to be understood as someone who buys the game, makes one playthrough of the central campaign, and then never touches the game again. This is how the vast majority of people interact with the Pokemon franchise.

Most people don't spend days or months SRing for shiny mons, or go pouring over the Pokedex to connect the lore dots, or start breeding campaigns for competitive Pokemon. When a franchise sells 25 million copies of a game, that's just how it is. For example, you'll never see 25 million on the ranked ladder, ever. You might see 100k people playing ranked ladder at peak. While that's a lot of people, that's only.... 0.4% of the people who actually bought the game (less if you include the people who just pirate it).

Another really good example are shiny Pokemon. While the mechanics for obtaining Pokemon have certainly become much, much easier to both learn and use, most players are just never going to obtain one (unless it's Lake of Rage Gyara or Preserve Hax). There are countless anecdotal stories of "I've been playing this game for X number of years, I just found my first shiny." Maybe a player will find 1 or 2 if they're lucky. Significantly more invested players might get up to a box through some grind. Very few players get to Bucket Buckert level and have multiple copies of every shiny Pokemon.

The people who do know about and interact with these niche mechanics remains sizable, but are very clearly in the minority due to the size of the Pokemon franchise. So for GF to continue selling copies, they don't need to include the listed mechanics to retain the majority of players. If the game has Pokemon, is functional, and still has core mechanics like catching and battling, it's pretty much guaranteed to sell just fine by Pokemon metrics. That's not to say that these mechanics can't be adopted and learned by new players, but they aren't necessary to support GF's business model.

Other mechanics are clearly more workable. Having multiple ball types, for example, is fairly straight forward to interact with. But how many people are specifically choosing the Lure Ball over the Great Ball beacuse they care that it works 5% better on the mon they just fished up? Or are trying to match a Pokemon's colors to the ball colors? Again, in order for the game to (at a min) function and sell, GF doesn't need to include multiple ball types or other similarly diverse mechanics. These are more used mechanics, but extraneous nonetheless.

The point is to highlight that there are many different tiers of interaction with game mechanics, and that the argument "X mechanic should be cut beacuse not enough players interact with it" just doesn't hold up at all. We all interact with the games in our own unique ways: whether you're a casual player, a speed runner, a competitive player, a hoarder collector, a battle facility tycoon, or any other title you want to give to yourself. Your way of interacting with the franchise is good, and it's not right for GF to decide to limit or ruin your enjoyment on a whim or for profit - especially if implementation is incredibly easy.





Except battle facility folks. Yall ain't right, no one who grinds to 5k+ streak is actually sane. I grind to 50 and I want to pull out my eyeballs. GF agrees: back to Tartarus with thee! :psynervous: Still sorry the facilities keep getting knee caped for you though. :psycry:
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
My estimation of the playerbase in general is ridiculously bleak any time i do online randoms
Humanity is just full of idiots.

I've been trying to get a weekly Savage reclear in FFXIV and keep failing because of brainlets who can't read or don't know what they're doing. And that game has a way to filter out people who haven't beaten the content before or aren't geared enough.

This is for the easiest Savage of the tier btw.
 
Serebii says you don't use the coins, however. Surely they aren't lying???
You don't use, as in the actual literal action of Use, the coins because mechnically you cannot actually use materials in the menu and Coins are tracked as materials.
Instead the game just checks for 999 coins and then evolves, and then the coins are removed from the inventory.





You know. I kind of wonder if Meltan will be brought back as DLC and evolve similarly, with a new Meltan material, since its functionally pretty similar in concept.
 

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
You know I made that whole post in the Story thread about some of the oddities about the finale and then the post game Arven bit literally brings that contradiction into view anyway....
What does Arven say about that contradiction?

You don't use, as in the actual literal action of Use, the coins because mechnically you cannot actually use materials in the menu and Coins are tracked as materials.
Instead the game just checks for 999 coins and then evolves, and then the coins are removed from the inventory.
I hate this company.
 
You know. I kind of wonder if Meltan will be brought back as DLC and evolve similarly, with a new Meltan material, since its functionally pretty similar in concept.
That'd require you to be able to defeat wild Meltans, which on its own is not happening due to Meltan being a mythical.
 
What does Arven say about that contradiction?
He basically just points out that
His mom read & was obsessed with the book and its supposed "ancient" Pokemon, and then she brought them to reality.
Then points out how, wait, that's weird right? Since they're mentioned in the book 200 years ago so they all must have existed then, but they were seemingly brought out by the time machine she made in the past decade.

he brushes it off as "hah well the book must have made them up right? right. Anyway!"
and this is right after showing to the player HEY THIS WEIRD DISC POKEMON, RIGHT? WILD HUH
 
That'd require you to be able to defeat wild Meltans, which on its own is not happening due to Meltan being a mythical.
Ehhhh... Meltans are farmable in GO so long as you transfer to Let's Go or Home occasionally to keep the Mystery Box active every 3 days, so I wouldn't call them "rare", it's just tedious to evolve one into Melmetal. Considering we already have a precedent for Mythicals being more accessible since Magearna being a QR code reward, having Meltans spawn in a new DLC area to give players access to Melmetal isn't too unbelievable. Melmetal just turned 4 years old 1 month ago, so I say it's time for it to stop being a totally GO exclusive.
 
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Ehhhh... Meltans are farmable in GO so long as you transfer to Let's Go or Home occasionally to keep the Mystery Box active every 3 days, so I wouldn't call them "rare", it's just tedious to evolve one into Melmetal. Considering we already have a precedent for Mythicals being more accessible since Magearna being a QR code reward, having Meltans spawn in a new DLC area to give players access to Melmetal isn't too unbelievable. Melmetal just turned 4 years old 1 month ago, so I say it's time for it to stop being totally GO exclusive.
Tbfh I'd much more likely see Melmetal show as raid thing than actual wild Meltans in game.
 
Spiritomb "got away" with this back in the day just because it's something you can breed.
Even if you could breed Gholdengo (and I honestly have no idea why you can't), you'd still just end up with Gimmighouls that'd need the coins anyway.
You know. I kind of wonder if Meltan will be brought back as DLC and evolve similarly, with a new Meltan material, since its functionally pretty similar in concept.
There already is a Meltan material, the Meltan Candy, which is still leftover in the code from Let's Go.
 
Even if you could breed Gholdengo (and I honestly have no idea why you can't), you'd still just end up with Gimmighouls that'd need the coins anyway.
That was my bigger point, yes.
There already is a Meltan material, the Meltan Candy, which is still leftover in the code from Let's Go.
And I'm saying they'd probably introduce a new material to go with the toher materials instead of using candy
 

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
He basically just points out that
His mom read & was obsessed with the book and its supposed "ancient" Pokemon, and then she brought them to reality.
Then points out how, wait, that's weird right? Since they're mentioned in the book 200 years ago so they all must have existed then, but they were seemingly brought out by the time machine she made in the past decade.

he brushes it off as "hah well the book must have made them up right? right. Anyway!"
and this is right after showing to the player HEY THIS WEIRD DISC POKEMON, RIGHT? WILD HUH
Man I can't wait for his spirit to be broken once the DLC drops and we find out
AI Sada didn't travel to the past but just vanished into the void
 
If they didn’t want to make Meltan repeatably catchable in-game, they could just let you catch one and then litter the overworld with Mystery Boxes full of Meltan Fragments
 
Man I can't wait for his spirit to be broken once the DLC drops and we find out
AI Sada didn't travel to the past but just vanished into the void
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuppppp

If they didn’t want to make Meltan repeatably catchable in-game, they could just let you catch one and then litter the overworld with Mystery Boxes full of Meltan Fragments
Or give you one (1) Meltan and then other mletans just scattered around the map that join up/flee/leave behind materials like, yo uknow...

Gimmighoul (Roaming). But for a new part of the map. What you wanted an easier way to get more gimighouls? You fool. Meltan time.
 

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