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Scizor (3 Attacks) [QC 0/3]

JellyOs

JellyOs

212.png

Scizor

Much different than this.

[SET]
name: 3 Attacks
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant
evs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 100 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
-Awesome power, still getting those great Scizor KO's
-Power like Choice Band, but the ability to switch moves in great. ex. You BP, Ferro comes in but you can still KO with Superpower
-Roost greatly increases longevity
-Played like CB, but Roosting is an option when the opponent switches
-Bullet Punch is awesome priority, getting those great KO's on Terrakion and Tyranitar
-U-turn is a fantastic scouting move and an excellent follow up to an attack against a slower threat
-Superpower lets you main slow Heatran, Ferrothorn, Blissey, Chansey and is overall good coverage
-Roost lets you live an incredibly long time throughout the battle
-Switching moves is this set's main selling point, and that's what it has over choice band
-Works so well because of Scizor's great resistances, bulk and access to instant recovery, which this set abuses

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
-100 Spe EVs let you outrun min Speed Heatran among things, while putting you at a decent speed tier while still retaining a very good amount of bulk.
-Most attack possible, rest in HP. 156 EVs means you take more damage from SR, so 4 are moved into S.Def
-Night Slash, Quick Attack, Brick Break, and Ariel Ace and Pursuit could all be run over Superpower, although Superpower KO's Heatran and Ferrothorn so it's not recommended.
-Iron Plate can bluff Choice Band while still giving Bullet Punch significant power
-If you want to go faster run 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe with a Jolly nature to outspeed unboosted DD Scrafty and most defensive Heatran
-Tentacruel and Jellicent can stop this set quite well, resisting all of the moves on this set and threatening with Scald and WoW.
-Skarmory can stop Scizor, taking a measly 30% from Superpower and Whirlwinding him out or proceeding to set up Spikes
-Infernape is quite effective against any Scizor set, this one included.
-Magnezone is only a problem if it invests in speed. Otherwise it is OHKO'd by Superpower
-Salamence is a great partner for Scizor, resisting Fire-type attacks and threatening many of Scizor's counters with a strong Draco Meteor, Earthquake or Fire BLast
-Rotom-W is a great partner as well, completing the VoltTurn combination and resisting Scizor's weakness
 
Not quite

This set actually plays a lot differently, mainly doing what a CB Scizor would do. ex. It switches in, U-Turns or Roosts
Whereas the trapper is much bulkier, this set focuses on being able to switch moves and heal quickly while being much faster. I thought the same thing myself until I played with both sets and realized their differences.
This is a battle where it's used quite well
I'll put up some more logs later
 
There is a one move difference, and a different EV spread. I don't really think this warrants a separate set analysis from Toma's set. Maybe Toma can change his set name to Life Orb 3 Attacks or something and mention Superpower in additional comments.
 
I suggested it, but if you play them they really do work quite differently. Technically you could say the same for most Scizor sets, it's just how they play
 
JellyOs said:
I suggested it, but if you play them they really do work quite differently. Technically you could say the same for most Scizor sets, it's just how they play
Click to expand...

I'm still not fully convinced this needs it's own set. Some examples to back up how your set deserves its own set would be nice.
 
I'll be honest, looking at these two sets I'm torn to decide if they should be merged or not. While they're very similar in build, they're played quite differently. However, upon further consideration I've decided that this is best merged in with Tomahawks' Scizor, and the set be called "3 attacks" overall. Basically, in the analysis when describing how it is used you would describe how it works with pursuit and how it works without pursuit, saying how one gives it great trapping abilities and the other increases its combat performance overall. I'll post in Tomahawk's thread too expressing this view hang on.

EDIT: Scratch that, after considering it more I realize how much of a difference the EVs make and that really these are two separate sets. Basically, this set is just an ordinary offensive Scizor with healing and the ability to switch attacks, while the other set is specifically tailored to trap Pokemon. The biggest difference is the bulk and attack. This one hits a lot harder, but the other one works better for trapping. Basically, they're not the same set because you couldn't just slash Superpower with Pursuit and get the same set. The spread is too vital. Sorry to flip flop like this, just thinking about how to actually merge the two made me realize how it wouldn't work.

EDIT2: Anyway just thought I'd explain that I think this set is totally worth putting on the site, because I know one of the ways I usually beat Scizor is through residual damage via Spikes and Stealth Rock. The band set falls very easily to this strategy since it's constantly U-Turning out and all that. This set would be much harder to beat that way, while still doing great damage and scouting and doing all the stuff it usually does minus trapping (which I know isn't vital for all teams).

I do have one important question though; those 100 Speed EVs, do they help you outrun anything specific? There's no point in putting EVs in speed for the sake of putting them in speed if there's nothing important you outrun with them. If there's nothing specific, you're probably better off shifting all but 8 of them into HP like the Choice band set for the extra bulk.
 
I can't say I agree. 3 Attacks isn't enough to describe the what each set does. The main focus shifts between sets, whereas mine acts like a Choice Band, the Trapper does what it says and focuses on trapping the opponent and maintaining bulk to take hits and support a tea, rather than the primary goal of mine which is to act as more of a "glue". You say the playstyles are different and not much else changes (moves etc.). Breloom's two set's are SubPunch and SubSeed. What changes? The EV's, one attack and the goal of the ste. The same case can be made for these two Scizor.
 
JellyOs said:
I can't say I agree. 3 Attacks isn't enough to describe the what each set does. The main focus shifts between sets, whereas mine acts like a Choice Band, the Trapper does what it says and focuses on trapping the opponent and maintaining bulk to take hits and support a tea, rather than the primary goal of mine which is to act as more of a "glue". You say the playstyles are different and not much else changes (moves etc.). Breloom's two set's are SubPunch and SubSeed. What changes? The EV's, one attack and the goal of the ste. The same case can be made for these two Scizor.
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry I edited my post before you finished posting this. Several times actually. I realized when I was about to post in the other one that I was mistaken about it and as such revised my post (rather than double post).

My question as to what those 100 Speed EVs actually DO remains though. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be vital to outrun that you'd need those for so if you could specify what it is that'd be great.
 
Oh, that's definately my fault for not actually putting that, I swear I meant too ;-; 100 Spe EVs let you outrun min Speed Heatran among things, while putting you at a decent speed tier while still retaining a very good amount of bulk. I gotta put that in the analysis lol
 
Atm I feel that this set works not too differently from the CB or Tomahawk9's Trapper set to warrant its own set. It's somewhere in between and basically the set does not stand out. It should probably remain in OO, since it's also not as prominent a threat compared to CB or SD.
 
Its goal is to beat the main problems CB has, namely residual damage by switching in and not being able to switch moves. It's not supposed to work like the Trapper set, which focuses on eliminating certain threats. It's closer to the CB set, but it really does work quite differently in practice. I think the set is of more worth than OO, if only because it helps so much against situations where Scizor's BP can't do much against a switch in. Obviously it has several other advantages, but that's it's main selling point.

It's kinda like this...have you ever switched in a CB Scizor against a Terrakion to BP it? but what do you know, Ferrothorn came along to take the hit! With the CB all you can do is switch out, but with this set, Superpower, KO, done.
 
True. This is more analagous to Offensive SD Scizor, but it trades the sweeping potential of Swords Dance for the durability granted by Roost.
 
Well that's the thing. It doesn't set up like SD, it U-Turns like CB, it Roosts like Bulky SD would, and it switches moves like the Trapper. I can't picture it in an AC of any of the above sets because it lacks the defining qualities of them, and it's too good for OO. It's a hard set to really define, so that's why I think it deserves its own analysis.
 
That's the thing, though. There's no distinguishing qualities that sets it apart from other sets (it doesn't play much differently from a SD Scizor with U-turn for instance), and it's not a prominent set. These 2 factors make it OO material.
 
But it's much, much more powerful than the SD set on site that mentions U-Turn (bulky). And it has a third coverage move that a bulky SD Scizor will always lack, and it's much faster. You also mention prominence, but many non-prominent sets are on-site, even in the Scizor analysis!

Code: 
 Item    |  3.1 | Choice Scarf

Does that seem like an incredibly prominent set? Choice Scarf Scizor was used 3.1% of the time last month, yet is has an analysis. Is everyone using the Trapper set that will most likely go on site? Or the NINE Dragonite sets that are on-site? It's not prominence, it's how effective they are, and I truly believe that this set is one of the most effective I have ever used. It can easily overcome many problems Choice Band faces, as well as adding durability with a more offensive SD take. It's its own set, and shouldn't be overlooked.
 
I'd just like to point out that the HP EVs are not very efficient: it hits 320, which is divisible by 8 so takes more from SR. If you had 152 EVs you hit 319, which not only minimises stealth rock damage but actually hits a life orb number. For this reason 4 EVs should be taken from HP and put into Special Defense or Defense.

I would also like to say this set is pretty good, since it has a decent speed, decent bulk and still hits very hard, and the ability to switch moves on Scizor (and use 3 with recovery) is amazing since many people rely on either poor coverage (2 attack SD) or having it locked into 1 move (CB/CS).
 
This may be walled by many steel types, acrobatics can work very well instead of superpower. I have somelogs of my scizor sweeping like this, but I'll have to find them since my logs are a mess right now. I think I have around 3 mini-sweeps.
 
Acrobatics is more of a gimmick than anything...sure it's good for one hit but then you lose Superpower, and Heatran with that... Basically I'm saying the power drop to every other move isn't worth it because everything you hit with Flying is hit with another move.
 
Acrobatics may be worth it sometimes in the SD set, to lure and OHKO Jellicent, but in any other set it isn't. Scizor wants the extra power from LO, and an unboosted Acrobatics isn't helping you to kill any important counter.
 
alexwolf said:
Acrobatics may be worth it sometimes in the SD set, to lure and OHKO Jellicent, but in any other set it isn't. Scizor wants the extra power from LO, and an unboosted Acrobatics isn't helping you to kill any important counter.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this. However, Ariel Ace IS worth considering. Technician boosted, it hits 90BP and hits things like Jellicent, Conkeldurr, Volcarona (on the switch obviously) and others harder than its other options while avoiding those nasty Defense and Attack Drops, making it better suited if you plan on staying in for more than one turn (with switching attacks this is much more likely than the CB set). Of course, Superpower provides superior coverage overall, but Ariel Ace is an option if you have other things for the Pokemon Superpower covers.
 
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