Scizor (Double Bluff)

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Lucien Lachance

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This is a Scizor set I've been using with great sucess allowing me to KO the pokemon he usually does, like Gengar or a TTar, but not having to switch out of it's usual counters, Rotom-H, Heatran, and Magnezone, you can't switch out of Zone though, and KOing the supposed "counter" too.

Scizor @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

*I'm not sure about the EVs. I don't think it matters as long as you have max Atk.*

The sucess of this set is to KO like a Gengar or Starmie with Pursuit and then they think they have a free turn of set-up with Heatran or something because they think your CBZor.
For Heatran, they FB / Flamethrower and you survive with 1HP and KO with Superpower if they miss you have another chance to get a free KO.
For Magnezone, they think they have you trapped, but you outspeed their HP Fire, unless scarfed, and you get a free KO and retain sash.
Rotom-H, Pursuit them. Overheat brings you to sash and you do 74.7% - 88.8%. Bullet Punch for the 2HKO.

It is the same moveset as the CB set, but it's purpose is to bluff twice allowing you to KO 2 pokemon, or 3 if FB misses or it's a Zone, Bluff choice band, and then bluff Expert Belt.

I've had very nice sucess with this set and I hope everyone else sees it the same way as I do.

Necessary Teammates:
You need a Rapid Spinner if you play to use this set as if Rocks are on your field, it will break your sash.
A TTar / Hippowdon can also be helpful as support against the rare Hail Team as well as giving Scizor, and other SS resists, a Special Defensive boost.
 
You strongly need to take account for spin support and Ttar-hippo to remove possible hail since this set heavily relies in focus sash.
 
Focus Sash is useless because it is negated with stealth rock, so I don't understand that item choice. Maybe Iron Plate to give bullet punch more power. Also, Scizor doesnt really benefit from having 252 Spe because that doesnt really beat anything. Id opt for a more bulky spread if this is even going to be considered.
 
Sandstorm does not boost Scizor's Special Defense, only Rock-types gain that advantage.
 
This looks like one of those sets that work very nicely in theory, but in practice falls short. You absolutely need Rapid Spin for this to work, and playing the Spinner vs. Spin-blocker game is not fun, at all. I'm not QC or anything, so take that with a grain of salt.
 
is there a reason why you're using a focus sash over an occa berry? the only attacks that are ohkoing scizor are fire-typed, and the occa isn't automatically ruined by stealth rock or minor damage.
 
Max neutral Scizor is outspeed by Steel Trapper Zone and Defensive Rotom-h, +speed nature Scizor is going too far so give it more bulk, nevertheless the sash will save you from HP fire and Superpower has 40% chance of OHKO, kills with Stealth Rock.

172 Spe EV's outspeed min Rotom-A for what is worth.
 
What Dan said. This is basically the CB set with a worse item and less bulk. Focus Sash is unviable outside of the lead slot due to entry hazards. If you want to bluff, use Occa; pretty much nothing is OHKOing Scizor with a lot of HP except Fire attacks. Note that if Gengar is behind a Substitute (fairly likely, unless you sac something to break the Substitute), it will just do a lot of damage to you with Focus Blast, breaking your Sash before you can kill Heatran.
 
@ Jumpluff - A Rapid Spinner has been stated as a necessary teammate.
Prehaps Gengar isn't the prime target for Scizor?
Occa Berry huh?
Heatran FB V Occa Zor = 168.1% - 197.9%. Doesn't help you there.
Magnezone HP Fire V Occa Zor = 65.2% - 77.3%. Helps you there.
Rotom-H Overheat V Occa Zor = 112.1% - 132.6%. Doesn't help you there.

But what can Scizor do W/O CB?
Superpower V ScarfTran = 84.8% - 100.3%. Entry hazards and previous damage is a KO.
Superpower V Steel Trapper Zone = 91.1% - 107.5%. Same deal.
Already shown Rotom-H.

Occa Berry only saves Scizor from Zone and Scizor doesn't need CB to KO Heatran, Zone, or Rotom, but he does need entry hazards.

It seems Gengar isn't good for Scizor to go after...

@ Neto - Scizor has 5 more Base speed than Magnezone. The only way Magnezone could outspeed is if it was Scarfed.

@ Dan - Occa only saves Scizor from Magnezone. Rapid Spin Support is still listed as a necessity.

@ koko - I have Rapid Spin support listed... Prehaps it isn't good on practice. I've had sucess with it though. Who needs salt? I have Ice Cream :)

@ Nexus - Really? Doesn't really matter, he is supposed to get KO'd by Heatran, Zone, and Rotom.

@ Undis - Rapid Spin is neccessary. I have that listed. Focus Sash is necessary to get the suprise KO on Heatran, Rotom-H, and Zone. Iron Plate only helps with BP. If anything Fist Plate to get the KO on Heatran and Zone. But SR makes it a KO.

Now that that's covered. Anything else?
 
Dude.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SPEED TIERS. Scizor max speed stat with an Adamant Nature? 229 speed.

WAIT a minute! Magnezone's Steel Killer set runs a Timid nature and 216 speed EVs, which puts it at 231 speed!

Myth busted.

And... So what if you have Occa only saves it from Magnezone. Wait a minute, it ALSO saves it from Celebi/Shaymin that carry HP Fire!

If you've used this with great success, I'd like to know exactly your CRE.
 
The thing is if you need a Rapid Spinner for this set to work, your pretty much wasting 1 team/move slot/ item, to get less damage output then the Choice Band set. Also, "just use a Rapid Spinner" doesn't cut it in a metagame where Rotom lurks around every corner... Focus Sash is an extremely unreliable item, and the power and bulk of the Choice Band set are sorely missed. Unless you switch into Heatran, you can always attempt to predict a Heatran switch-in, and nail it with Superpower, without losing the power of a Choice Band.
 
So Magnezone outspeed Scizor, Focus Sash saves it and it KO's with Superpower.

True Firecape. True. But what if they DON'T send in Heatran but a Rotom? Specifically a Sub+Pain Split Rotom. Then you're kind of dead.
 
Focus Sash saves it at the cost of weakening your entire team to ensure that the sash is intact.

Oh yes, that's a very good deal :/
 
I don't rely on Scizor to bring up my teams. It's there to KO a weak Starmie, and then KO the supposed Counter. After that, it's sleep bait or meatshield.
 
Lucien Lachance said:
So Magnezone outspeed Scizor, Focus Sash saves it and it KO's with Superpower.
Click to expand...

Entry hazards spoil your plans. I'm going to agree with everyone else and say that Focus Sash is just too unreliable. Choice Band is a much better item choice.

EDIT : Two posts while I was making this one, I must be slow. You're looking at KOing a weak Starmie (conditional use at best) and a counter. Pretty sure CB Scizor can do much more than that.
 
Lucien Lachance said:
@ Jumpluff - A Rapid Spinner has been stated as a necessary teammate.
Prehaps Gengar isn't the prime target for Scizor?
Occa Berry huh?
Heatran FB V Occa Zor = 168.1% - 197.9%. Doesn't help you there.
Magnezone HP Fire V Occa Zor = 65.2% - 77.3%. Helps you there.
Rotom-H Overheat V Occa Zor = 112.1% - 132.6%. Doesn't help you there.

But what can Scizor do W/O CB?
Superpower V ScarfTran = 84.8% - 100.3%. Entry hazards and previous damage is a KO.
Superpower V Steel Trapper Zone = 91.1% - 107.5%. Same deal.
Already shown Rotom-H.

Occa Berry only saves Scizor from Zone and Scizor doesn't need CB to KO Heatran, Zone, or Rotom, but he does need entry hazards.

It seems Gengar isn't good for Scizor to go after...
Click to expand...

i really don't understand what exactly you're getting at. occa berry lets you stay in and win against magnezone, gengar, celebi/shaymin (thanks gargant), roserade, flamethrower blissey, flygon, dragonite...

admittedly, heatran OHKOes you even with an occa beery, which is the one scenario when focus sash helps (but even then, only if you're at full health, which you usually won't be). focus sash doesn't help against rotom-h because you won't stay in against it when your strongest move is a non-switching pursuit - unless scizor is your last pokemon, and if he is, there's no way he's still at full health.

qc will need to see logs of you using this scizor in battle before anybody will be convinced.

Lucien Lachance said:
I don't rely on Scizor to bring up my teams. It's there to KO a weak Starmie, and then KO the supposed Counter. After that, it's sleep bait or meatshield.
Click to expand...

so everything revolves around the starmie switching out. many players will predict the pursuit and stay in for a surf, and if they do, your whole plan is ruined.
 
Lucien Lachance said:
I don't rely on Scizor to bring up my teams. It's there to KO a weak Starmie, and then KO the supposed Counter. After that, it's sleep bait or meatshield.
Click to expand...

I'm no QC member. But I can tell you this.

You post sets in hope it gets accepted.

Those sets have to appeal and be usable to many people.

You may like this set. But I'm sure the overwhelming response of no has proven that this set will fail in the hands of most other people that lack your mindset.

And what's your CRE again?
 
Lucien Lachance said:
So Magnezone outspeed Scizor, Focus Sash saves it and it KO's with Superpower.

True Firecape. True. But what if they DON'T send in Heatran but a Rotom? Specifically a Sub+Pain Split Rotom. Then you're kind of dead.
Click to expand...

Explain how this is relevant at all please. Ok, they send in a Rotom to CB Scizor locked into Superpower, you have to switch, how do you end up dead from that senario. Sub+Pain Split Rotom is rare anyways, and as long as you can deal with Gengar running the same set (which every team should be able to...) then you will be fine against Rotom. They send in a Rotom to your set:

#1: If your Sash somehow isn't broken, you survive an Overheat, (if they even have it...) then do what? Pursuit does 56.4% - 67.2% damage to 0/0, and since they just switched in, they aren't switching out. Then you are 2HKOed by Tbolt/Overheat from offensive varients, and crippled by Will-O-Wisp from defensive ones. So you aren't winning against any Rotom here.

#2: If your Sash is broken (which is more likely...) you are now OHKOed by Overheat, and still 2HKOed by Tbolt or crippled by Will-O-Wisp, while you still fail to kill it with with anything.

#3: You switch out / use U-turn. CB Scizor can do the same...

In a common battle senario, you will never beat Rotom with this Scizor, so it is a mute point to say CB Scizor "dies" to it.
 
It's intended to be a midgame sasher? That already sets off warning bells. I'm not even a huge fan of Occa Berry on this either.

BaitTar and MixTar "work" because they can utilize unexpected moves to deal with what should be "counters" to Tyranitar. They also play on the massive popularity of Choice Scarf Tyranitar, which Scizor cannot boast.

This gets a flat out no from me.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
I know Rapid Spin was suggested as a teammate requirement, but mid-game Sashing is still very difficult, and that's a lot of support needed honestly for something that is situational. SR can easily be set up again and there goes your Scizor. Also it can't switch in on anything, which is something normal Scizor can boast.
 
This is just a basic Cb style scizor with an item that doesn't work. Controlling weather and spinning away a move 100% of teams have, that's two necessary team mates, just so that a scizor with focus sash can do exactly what he always does but with a sash that won't even work most of the time over the bulkiness that comes with the cb set. I don't think you've thought this set through, I saw the RMT this set was on, and you didn't even have a spinner or a Tyranitar/Hippowdon. Also, you have listed there that sandstorm gives you a 50% boost in accuracy, which I sincerely, deeply hope you know is false. Why would you want more defense if you have a sash anyways, even if sandstorm boosted steel types' special defense over rock types? Even if this set could come in safely, even if entry hazards didn't exist (or you had a spinner that could spin through ghosts types), and Tyranitar summoned magical pixie dust to boost steel types' special defense (I'm not even sure how you can think this, is skarmory a Gengar counter?), you don't think Scizor would trap Gengar/Starmie without a scratch? Bullet Punch isn't a OHKO on either, so you would have to pursuit them while they get a free attack, leaving your focus sash rendered useless regardless. And even if Scizor outspeeds and kills Gengar and Starmie, okay, you've successfully lured out Heatran/Magnezone, will now take 99% of your HP in exchange for 100% of their HP, leaving you open to almost any Pokemon that wants to have some fun with a 1 HP Scizor. So if this goes down without a hitch, you kill two pokemon, one of which is already weakened, at the exchange of your Pokemon. I take that back, since this scizor is sashed, it literally cannot switch in on any Pokemon, so it must revenge something, so two of your Pokemon, for two of their Pokemon. There is probably a much, much easier way to do this.

tl:dr version: Too much support is needed for too little.
 
Steels don't get a SpD boost in SS, only Rock types.

That said, why would you not run a SpD based spread? Regarding Heatran, Magnezone, and Rotom:
Defensive Rotom you have no chance of doing good damage.

Now, here are calcs for Adamant 252 Scizor's Pursuit followed by Bullet Punch
252 Adamant Scizor (40bp Dark Physical + Technician)
vs. Timid Rotom-H : 56.4% - 67.2%
252 Adamant Scizor Bullet Punch
vs. Timid Rotom-H : 21.2% - 24.9%

On average, you don't even KO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile:
4/252 Adamant Scizor
vs. 252 Timid Rotom-H Overheat : 85.1% - 100.7%
This is with the most specially defensive build possible, as found by applet available to Smogon. You have a minute chance of surviving after SR+nothing else. Conclusion: Rotom still wins.

Let's go to Heatran.
4/252 Adamant Scizor
vs. 252 Naive Heatran Flamethrower : 100.7% - 119.1%
Flamethrower is the weakest fire move Heatran will be carrying, besides Lava Plume. Clean KO through Occa Berry. Moving on.

Magnezone.
4/252 Adamant Scizor
vs. 252 Naive Magnezone (70bp Fire Special) : 49.6% - 58.9%
Ok you are going to survive to use this Superpower
252 Adamant Scizor Superpower
vs. Naive Magnezone : 91.1% - 107.5%
Which for the most part KOs.

So, hurrah, you beat Magnezone provided that you are still above half health when Magnezone comes in. Not happening if Starmie stays in.

So a gimmick that barely will actually do what its supposed to do.
 
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