Pokémon Serperior

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

I never said it was a good idea, either. :P
I said it wasn't a bad idea. Depends on what you want out of the set. If you have appropriate checks or counters for Tran and Ferro on the same team then I'm sure a different HP type would be optimal.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Whoops, but either way you don't hit heatran that hard.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 169-200 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's worth a mention but I don't believe it'll be that viable.

 

[Zentrius]

So what's the standard Serperior set as of right now? I personally have tried a LO Taunt set as a potential stall breaker and it does wonderful outside of Unaware Clefable.

 

[Kurona]

So what's the standard Serperior set as of right now? I personally have tried a LO Taunt set as a potential stall breaker and it does wonderful outside of Unaware Clefable.

Serperior @ Life Orb
Contrary
4 Dfc/252 SpA/252 Spd
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ground
Giga Drain

You can also opt to drop a few Speed EVs because Serperior is the only base 113 Speed Pokémon in the entire game; dropping them to just outspeed max 112 (only scolipede in OU) is a viable option.

 

[JMach]

Dual screens, and sub seed are pretty decent sets actually. It's not very bulky for stall teams but it supports stall extremely well while providing offensive potential.

Meh not in OU. You're much better off using something like Ferro or Venu for seeding, and they provide much better defensive synergy with other 'mons, which is something stall loves.

As far as "offensive presence" on stall, why Serp over something like Breloom or, once again, Venu?

There are just much better options for stall and semi-stall. IMO Serp struggles to find a niche.

Dual screens are only really particularly good on offensive teams (at least at a higher level of play), and Lati@s or Azelf are far better choices for that role. I've said this before elsewhere, but team slots are more valuable than ever these days. Why use Serp for screens over the Latis when its bulk and defensive typing are both considerably worse?

Contrary Leaf Storm can be nice when it gets out of control, but I think I'll be sticking to more versatile, less predictable grass types with greater movepool diversities.

 

[tehy]

Serperior @ Life Orb
Contrary
4 Dfc/252 SpA/252 Spd
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ground
Giga Drain

You can also opt to drop a few Speed EVs because Serperior is the only base 113 Speed Pokémon in the entire game; dropping them to just outspeed max 112 (only scolipede in OU) is a viable option.

Not really, considering that's 4 evs. Why not get the speed tie on other serp? Not really a fan of speed ties but at least that's worth more than 4 hp evs. (Or 12, since thund-i is the real relevant threat around that tier)

Edit:

An astoundingly shitty option, yes. Don't just toss out random/bad suggestions just because they're options.

Scolipede has Speed Boost, which might account for that lack of speed; however, back when it didn't have it, 252 Jolly was standard, because duh.

 

[Kurona]

Not really, considering that's 4 evs. Why not get the speed tie on other serp? Not really a fan of speed ties but at least that's worth more than 4 hp evs. (Or 12, since thund-i is the real relevant threat around that tier)

Said it's an option. Definitely not standard or anything; hell Scolipede never really runs Jolly 252 so y'know.

 

[Marky B]

Serprior+Talon+Lando-T core is pretty great too, idk if someone already touched on this but, I'd just run Hp Ground on Serprior and use Defensive Lando-T instead of Dugtrio, just for more survivability and help vs Scarf Lando-T. It may not trap tran but I honestly think its better.

 

[da gold sun]

Serprior+Talon+Lando-T core is pretty great too, idk if someone already touched on this but, I'd just run Hp Ground on Serprior and use Defensive Lando-T instead of Dugtrio, just for more survivability and help vs Scarf Lando-T. It may not trap tran but I honestly think its better.

What do you do against Ferrothorn and the like then? HP Fire vs. HP Ground is a trade off of how well Serperior can do against staying in on Ferrothorn/Scizor/Forretress (lol)/other grass types versus...Heatran. The only coverage you get from HP Ground is Heatran and that's basically it. Lando-T checks non-Scarf Heatran as it is, and Talonflame can always run U-Turn/Apicot Natural Gift (it's so funny) to pivot out/surprise it.

If you're going to run a trapper, Magnezone might be the better option as it checks/traps Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress...basically anything that 4x resists Leaf Storm that isn't a grass type. Which means you need something to beat Amoongus/Mega-Venusaur now, like Substitute Heatran. We all already know Heatran covers all of Serperior's weaknesses, too.

 

[Marky B]

What do you do against Ferrothorn and the like then? HP Fire vs. HP Ground is a trade off of how well Serperior can do against staying in on Ferrothorn/Scizor/Forretress (lol)/other grass types versus...Heatran. The only coverage you get from HP Ground is Heatran and that's basically it. Lando-T checks non-Scarf Heatran as it is, and Talonflame can always run U-Turn/Apicot Natural Gift (it's so funny) to pivot out/surprise it.

If you're going to run a trapper, Magnezone might be the better option as it checks/traps Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress...basically anything that 4x resists Leaf Storm that isn't a grass type. Which means you need something to beat Amoongus/Mega-Venusaur now, like Substitute Heatran. We all already know Heatran covers all of Serperior's weaknesses, too.

I find HP ground to be better than Fire. Yes serprior could stay in on all of these defensive steel and grass types and do damage but getting rid of a talon check would be more beneficial since talon can take care of the pokemon you named. Hell, lets take some pressure off talon and use magnetzone too. By no means is that a bad idea like you said. Choice scarf Lando-T is still a threat tho so this is why Defensive Lando-T has a better use than dugtrio imo, this also goes for Heatran being a partner to Serprior like you suggested.

 

[No hugs 4 U]

I can see this thing actually being pretty threatening in the doubles environment. Rain and sand are very common teams and this thing rips them apart. Its gotta pretty decent defenses with resistances to earthquake, surf and discharge along with the ability to rape common double shit like rotom-w, landorus and garchomp.

Timid
252 speed, 100 def, 152 spec attack,
Sitrius berry

Leaf storm
Taunt/glare
Dragon pulse
HP fire/ground

Leaf storm for boosting and sweeping (duh) taunt to stop all the trick roomers that serperior baits in or you could use glare to paralyze stuff like excadrill in sand and landorus which is always nice. Dragon pulse for coverage and the HP depends on who you want dead more heatran or ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is pretty bad as it walls you and can stop you with thunder wave or heatran can just straight up kill you with flamethrower and wall you so pick according to your team. Evs are for max speed and power while the defense helps taking lando and excadrill out easier.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Guys let's be real, Serperior looks pretty decent but it's not gonna be an OU defining mon and people are certainly not going to opt for Sap Sipper Azumarill just to wall it...


Also HP Fighting is horrible on Serperior as the only (OU relevant) thing it hits decently hard that HP Fire/Ground don't hit harder is Bisharp which is already OHKO'd by it at +2 unless it's running AV, Grass/Fighting/Dragon coverage works for Sceptile because Focus Blast is 120 BP instead of HPs 60 BP.

 

[Mimolette]

I don't see Serperior being OU, as its movepool does not allow it to break through teams.

If its HP fire, it can't break heatran.

If its HP ground, it can't break ferro.

 

[BenTheDemon]

I don't see Serperior being OU, as its movepool does not allow it to break through teams.

If its HP fire, it can't break heatran.

If its HP ground, it can't break ferro.

Talonflame cannot break Heatran, yet it's OU.
At least Serperior gets to choose what walls it.

 

[thdhted]

I don't see Serperior being OU, as its movepool does not allow it to break through teams.

If its HP fire, it can't break heatran.

If its HP ground, it can't break ferro.

Serperior is a cleaner, NOT a sweeper, and it's a really good for a cleaner.
Also, irrelevant calc that shows serperior breaking ferrothorn who can't really do much without gyro ball:

+6 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 179-212 (50.8 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (117 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 124-147 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

 

[BenTheDemon]

Serperior is a cleaner, NOT a sweeper, and it's a really good for a cleaner.
Also, irrelevant calc that shows serperior breaking ferrothorn who can't really do much without gyro ball:

+6 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 179-212 (50.8 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (117 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 124-147 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

I disagree with the "Not a Sweeper" part. Yes, it's primary job is cleaning, but after Heatran is gone (assuming you're running HP Fire), then Serperior can sweep pretty efficiently. It's like a Special version of Moxie sweeping but better.

 

[Kurona]

I disagree with the "Not a Sweeper" part. Yes, it's primary job is cleaning, but after Heatran is gone (assuming you're running HP Fire), then Serperior can sweep pretty efficiently. It's like a Special version of Moxie sweeping but better.

No, please don't advertise it as such, because this is where a lot of people will find disappointment. There are a lot more things in this meta which can wall Serperior which need to be gone before it can do it's job, or even Pokémon like Metagross who can easily take a hit and strike back to obliterate it. I've seen a very annoying problem with Serperior where 45% of people are overselling it, 45% of people are underselling it, and the other 10% are actually getting it right, seeing it as a pretty good cleaner that's not brilliant but not bad either, but should be brought in late game when it's very numerous checks are gone. The same thing happened with the ORAS Megas and is arguably still happening with them; people really need to get their conceptions right about this thing.

 

[BenTheDemon]

No, please don't advertise it as such, because this is where a lot of people will find disappointment. There are a lot more things in this meta which can wall Serperior which need to be gone before it can do it's job, or even Pokémon like Metagross who can easily take a hit and strike back to obliterate it. I've seen a very annoying problem with Serperior where 45% of people are overselling it, 45% of people are underselling it, and the other 10% are actually getting it right, seeing it as a pretty good cleaner that's not brilliant but not bad either, but should be brought in late game when it's very numerous checks are gone. The same thing happened with the ORAS Megas and is arguably still happening with them; people really need to get their conceptions right about this thing.

You are correct. Serperior does have other Pokemon that rain on its parade. Heatran is just its most common and most reliable counter. Unaware Clefable is a very close second.
I'm not trying to oversell Serperior. I'm just pointing out that it is effective in OU as a sweeper once its counters are gone. I may slightly exaggerate its greatness, but it's certainly not unbeatable.

 

[Marky B]

You are correct. Serperior does have other Pokemon that rain on its parade. Heatran is just its most common and most reliable counter. Unaware Clefable is a very close second.
I'm not trying to oversell Serperior. I'm just pointing out that it is effective in OU as a sweeper once its counters are gone. I may slightly exaggerate its greatness, but it's certainly not unbeatable.

Actually clef gets 2hko by leaf storm all i see is free boost lol, but I dont see Serprior being much of a sweeper regardless of its counters being there or not, maybe late game it could put in some work, but I think its main purpose should be to weaken the opponents team so something else can sweep.

 

[Dizzybanana21x]

I think Serperior can be brilliant, but you need to build your team around it. It needs support to remove all the pokemon that can take a hit and kill it right back. Dragon Pulse and Hidden Power really provide limited power so its hard to hit things that resist Leaf Storm very hard until you get 2-3 boosts. Its very easy to bring Serperior in too early in a match and loose it. Its not a pokemon thats ever going to easily fit into a team, its team needs to fit it.

 

[Scorpiopt]

its that bad of idea to include nature power on it? basically for neutral hits like return is used

 

[Da Pizza Man]

its that bad of idea to include nature power on it? basically for neutral hits like return is used

That's not at all how return is used, it is used for STAB on normal types, pokemon with such bad coverage to the point where they need it, or if they are a physical -ate user. I wouldn't recommend Nature power on it

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

its that bad of idea to include nature power on it? basically for neutral hits like return is used

It's still resisted by Steels which are the main (only?) problem really so, no, probably not a good idea.

 

[Tarontos]

Nature Power(tri attack) would only really be useful if it didn't get dragon pulse.
for comparison
grass/dragon resisted by 90% of steels mega alt togekiss and wimsicot super effective on every other dragon in ou
grass/normal resisted by 90% of steels and ghost/fire/grass/dragon/poison no super effective on dragons

 

[BenTheDemon]

Yea. Don't use Nature Power on Serperior. Unless you want to get walled by Dragonite in addition to everything else that already walls it.