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Sex
- Thread starter SkullCandy
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Terrific topic, and terrific debate Smogon.
For the record, I am a 24-year-old "born-again" Christian.
For the record, I've had several relationships (the longest of which was nearly 5 years) and in each of them, I've had sex (and several times out-side of "relationships," I've had sex-random hook'ups and whatnot).
Does that make me a hypocrite in the society's eyes? In other "Christians" eyes?
No.
Just because I have a certain set of beliefs (which some will agree with, and many won't), that doesn't make me right and more than it makes you right. It also doesn't make me wrong and more than it makes you wrong.
Because you see, I am human, Just like the rest of you. And just like the rest of you, I struggle with things, just like some of you struggle with things.
In the certain things that I (and other Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Atheists, etc.) struggle with, what I believe in does NOT all of a sudden make me right and you wrong (or vise versa).
Simply put, we all have a desire to have sex. We are people. Certain people can and will decide to do what they want to do. It's human nature.
As a Christian, it is pretty clear, sex before marriage is a no-no. I've already failed that, a long time ago, and several times over... again, again and AGAIN, despite me knowing that it is something that I am not supposed to do before marriage.
Why? Because I struggle with things, just like we all do which I stated a few paragraphs before. In this case, I am a sucker for beautiful naked women. Does that make me bad or wrong? If so, I guess all of mankind is bad or wrong.
To make an insanely long story short, I personally believe that it should be saved before marriage, but in no way shape or form does that mean that I am going to go up on a soapbox and tell you (or anyone) that what I believe is the right or the wrong way.
I will say that I all but guarantee each and every one of you that I've been through a lot more trials and hardships than most and that I have an interesting perspective on a lot of topics such as these, but that is a story for another day.
Just know that IMO, the right answer to the question of "is it right" or "is it wrong" can't really be debated at all. That question can be answered with a further set of beliefs in which you choose to live your life by.
Unfortunately, life isn't as easy as we all want it to be. If so, we wouldn't struggle with anything and we'd never have pain or hurt in our lives.
Does that mean that it pains me each time I have sex because I didn't wait until marriage? Yes and no.
Yes, because I am trying to abstain from doing so because of my certain set of core beliefs that I believe in.
No, because I have yet to encounter anything so far in life that compares to having sex.
The rumor out there is is that sex is better when you are married because of the emotional attachment and many other things. This is a topic that I certainly won't dive into now, but when that day does come when I am married, I'll be very much looking forward to it.
Better sex on top of sex? :naughty:
It's hard to wrap my brain around.
That said, Just as Cartoons stated earlier this thread, I am a Christian and my duty as a follower of Christ is to state, again, for the record, it is my personal belief that we are all to wait until marriage BUT ALSO that the topic of sex and about life in general is a whole lot more complex (or simpler if you look at it in a different light) than the simple question of "is it right" or "is it wrong?"
I can go on and on about preaching to you about how you are wrong and I am right but what is that going to do other than cause an argument?
That is not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is for me to say that even though I believe a certain set of "beliefs" that many won't agree with, here is are my thoughts on the matter.
For the record, I am a 24-year-old "born-again" Christian.
For the record, I've had several relationships (the longest of which was nearly 5 years) and in each of them, I've had sex (and several times out-side of "relationships," I've had sex-random hook'ups and whatnot).
Does that make me a hypocrite in the society's eyes? In other "Christians" eyes?
No.
Just because I have a certain set of beliefs (which some will agree with, and many won't), that doesn't make me right and more than it makes you right. It also doesn't make me wrong and more than it makes you wrong.
Because you see, I am human, Just like the rest of you. And just like the rest of you, I struggle with things, just like some of you struggle with things.
In the certain things that I (and other Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Atheists, etc.) struggle with, what I believe in does NOT all of a sudden make me right and you wrong (or vise versa).
Simply put, we all have a desire to have sex. We are people. Certain people can and will decide to do what they want to do. It's human nature.
As a Christian, it is pretty clear, sex before marriage is a no-no. I've already failed that, a long time ago, and several times over... again, again and AGAIN, despite me knowing that it is something that I am not supposed to do before marriage.
Why? Because I struggle with things, just like we all do which I stated a few paragraphs before. In this case, I am a sucker for beautiful naked women. Does that make me bad or wrong? If so, I guess all of mankind is bad or wrong.
To make an insanely long story short, I personally believe that it should be saved before marriage, but in no way shape or form does that mean that I am going to go up on a soapbox and tell you (or anyone) that what I believe is the right or the wrong way.
I will say that I all but guarantee each and every one of you that I've been through a lot more trials and hardships than most and that I have an interesting perspective on a lot of topics such as these, but that is a story for another day.
Just know that IMO, the right answer to the question of "is it right" or "is it wrong" can't really be debated at all. That question can be answered with a further set of beliefs in which you choose to live your life by.
Unfortunately, life isn't as easy as we all want it to be. If so, we wouldn't struggle with anything and we'd never have pain or hurt in our lives.
Does that mean that it pains me each time I have sex because I didn't wait until marriage? Yes and no.
Yes, because I am trying to abstain from doing so because of my certain set of core beliefs that I believe in.
No, because I have yet to encounter anything so far in life that compares to having sex.
The rumor out there is is that sex is better when you are married because of the emotional attachment and many other things. This is a topic that I certainly won't dive into now, but when that day does come when I am married, I'll be very much looking forward to it.
Better sex on top of sex? :naughty:
It's hard to wrap my brain around.
That said, Just as Cartoons stated earlier this thread, I am a Christian and my duty as a follower of Christ is to state, again, for the record, it is my personal belief that we are all to wait until marriage BUT ALSO that the topic of sex and about life in general is a whole lot more complex (or simpler if you look at it in a different light) than the simple question of "is it right" or "is it wrong?"
I can go on and on about preaching to you about how you are wrong and I am right but what is that going to do other than cause an argument?
That is not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is for me to say that even though I believe a certain set of "beliefs" that many won't agree with, here is are my thoughts on the matter.
Sorry but yes it does, read the bible, I was railing a girl in your similar situation a while back and it most certainly applies to you as it does to her.
Arm waving relativism, when you're dealing with absolutes like your own bible this is silly.
absolution by genetic right?
Absolution by spreading the guilt?
next time come out and say it man! Don't try to justify it we all know it
You're a hypocrite at denying you're own hypocrisy, unfortunately
What have you learned about yourself or the beliefs you try to adhere to?
Man if you were the only one there would be less teen pregnancy the world over. Also, stop spreading the blame- either you sinned and you burn in hellfire or you're a person and you've done nothing wrong, don't try to water it down with birthright.
I requote the above to simply point out that you're in denial one way or the other.
You already did by saying that you believe that sex before marriage is a no no both via the religion card AND by explicitly saying it.
and you failed, it would seem, by your God's standards but not by your standard for everyone else.
It can be answered affirmatively: It is not wrong, you already said it is human nature; we are humans, ergo it is within our nature so stop fussing about it.
You are acting like this is some hardship, like being laid is a plague upon you. If it's so bad, I think you need more help than this thread can give you.
Cognitive dissonance is a good reason to stop being a hypocrite I would suggest.
If you believed in it so devoutly you wouldn't do it, end of debate. I hope you learn something about yourself.
Because your biology dictates.
Sex is better when you trust a person, end of discussion.
I'm sorry but no. You are being point blank hypocritical here. You cannot just chalk your religious failings up to it being a complex question when it's explicitly stated NOT TO DO IT BEFORE MARRIAGE.
Don't absolve yourself of posting this now! The fun is just getting started, I think!
So in other words you preached just to say this? Why not just say this? I think you have a guilty conscience and you can resolve that in one of two ways: stop following so devoutly or repent and stop having illicit sex.
I only need to reply to your last few sentences because they are the only ones worth repeating or replying to.
I do have a guilty conscience. It's why I posted. Why? To share another's view point, ya know... like many other have done in this very thread.
What is your viewpoint on the topic at hand? Or are you just a typical internet thug who tried acting superior over everyone else because you have nothing better to do?
Also, as a side note, It is obviously your clear motivation to cause an e-fight/be a major pain in the ass by the kind visitor message you left on my profile.
To answer your above question:
not a chance
I have repented and have since been abstaining. That said, no one is perfect, but by the way you conduct yourself around here, you are obviously the closest.
Are you sure you are not God? Should I be praying to you, one who knows most?
If you have a guilty conscience you either need to do some serious searching of "self" or you need to man up and talk to a pastor/whatever and your dear and fluffy lord. You shouldn't feel guilt after repenting or whatever, you've moved past it in that context IIRC.
If you knew me at all you'd know in cong I'm not a thug, just someone who ruthlessly tries to purge hypocrisy when he can contribute. That aside, sex is natural human social behavior; just look at our relatives.
Well it sounds like after repenting and abstaining life isn't going so good. Like I said, maybe do some searching of your own self. I'm not telling you what's right for you, I'm just merely observing that what I see apparently isn't what's right for you.
Do not be upset at me for being objective; I am not the one with which blame rests.
If you knew me at all you'd know in cong I'm not a thug, just someone who ruthlessly tries to purge hypocrisy when he can contribute. That aside, sex is natural human social behavior; just look at our relatives.
Well it sounds like after repenting and abstaining life isn't going so good. Like I said, maybe do some searching of your own self. I'm not telling you what's right for you, I'm just merely observing that what I see apparently isn't what's right for you.
Do not be upset at me for being objective; I am not the one with which blame rests.
So because I did something that I personally believe in to be wrong, I should NOT feel guilty about it, especially when I knew before hand that engaging in such an act is something that I find to be "sinful" but I did it anyway?
lol OK Einstein
Sex is a natural human behavior...? Thanks again for your amazing intellect wise one.
Life is nothing but amazing, but thanks for your free therapy. Searching of oneself is something everyone should do, but I myself have figured out everything that I have ever struggled with/had problems with (this topic included). You second guessing or "observing" as you call it from a short little story I posted on a subject gives you no insight to anything that I have either experienced in my life so the simple thought of you giving me advice or giving your opinion on what I should do with anything is hilarious.
Please point out to where I was specifically angry with you. I'll be eagerly awaiting your response.
I'm asserting that you did nothing wrong and that you feel guilty about it because of your own self. If you are feeling guilty about something you are admitting is natural and therefore normal, it's a problem with you and not with the act.
The last two lines in your first reply to me lead me to believe you were upset. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.
The last two lines in your first reply to me lead me to believe you were upset. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.
To follow up on what EBM and cartoons said, i was only stating my beliefs and that was my only reason to post. Twice i stated i didn't want to debate. However, when my beliefs are unfairly being chewed out, I'm not going to take it (much like i believe likewise for those who believe the opposite). This is exactly when I'm going to sound like I'm preaching because now I'm trying to defend those beliefs. I feel it best to start over and restate those beliefs:
I believe sex should be for only a life term relationship (to be specific, Marriage). I don't believe safe sex guarantees 100% protection (outside of surgery) and i believe something is wrong when you are trying to use sex outside its primary functions (procreation & bonding to someone else in intimacy). This why i said there other things to do to feel good because i don't believe that's what sex is meant to be. I don't agree that premarital sex is moraly ok, but I'm not going to wate my breath preaching against it. I'll live with it like i live with other things i disagree with.
again, just like i stated before: I'm only stating what i believe, I'm not interested in debating.
I believe sex should be for only a life term relationship (to be specific, Marriage). I don't believe safe sex guarantees 100% protection (outside of surgery) and i believe something is wrong when you are trying to use sex outside its primary functions (procreation & bonding to someone else in intimacy). This why i said there other things to do to feel good because i don't believe that's what sex is meant to be. I don't agree that premarital sex is moraly ok, but I'm not going to wate my breath preaching against it. I'll live with it like i live with other things i disagree with.
again, just like i stated before: I'm only stating what i believe, I'm not interested in debating.
J-Man, when you post on a public forum, you have to expect, regardless of your previous requests, for people to correct what they perceive as or is utter bullshit.
You know what's really unfair? When people aren't allowed to challenge points with reasonable discourse.
You know what's really unfair? When people aren't allowed to challenge points with reasonable discourse.
Vasectomies aren't even 100%. The only true 100% is not having sex, or having sex before or after the female has her period (which is either way too young or way too old)
@Firestorm - Was that to me or J-man?
Please don't post if you are just going to post one-offs and then run away. Threads are for discussion and civil debates. If you post something people disagree with, they will challenge you on that. That is to be expected.
Especially when your arguments are this weak. Just two quick points:
- "bonding to someone else in intimacy" does not require marriage
- wearing a condom isn't only to prevent pregnancy
Especially when your arguments are this weak. Just two quick points:
- "bonding to someone else in intimacy" does not require marriage
- wearing a condom isn't only to prevent pregnancy
I find this very unfair. If i post my beliefs and then get dragged into a debate, i get in trouble. So now if i don't debate i still get in trouble?
@Firestorm
Point 1: Yes, but i think we can agree that married couples are best able to tackle raising kids (see procreation, the other part to sex)
Point 2: This fact is totally irrelevant as it doesn't invalidate my beliefs (and it is ignorant to my knowledge of condoms).
@Firestorm
Point 1: Yes, but i think we can agree that married couples are best able to tackle raising kids (see procreation, the other part to sex)
Point 2: This fact is totally irrelevant as it doesn't invalidate my beliefs (and it is ignorant to my knowledge of condoms).
Oh no, you're misinterpreting. You're allowed to have your beliefs, and to share them. But by the same token, you must expect to be called upon to defend them, and if you can't, well...
Modern birth control methods are very effective, saying that you shouldn't have sex unless you are ready to have a kid is like saying you shouldn't drive a car unless you are ready to die because even the best drivers can get into accidents.
You get in trouble when you debate because you generally end up spouting doctrine, rather than offering up an intellectual argument.
I was saying it was helpful to not post if you aren't going to discuss an issue. I'm not going to stop you from running away after posting something unless you're doing it to intentionally troll. I don't think it matters as you always argue anyway even though you repeatedly say you don't want to.
I do not agree that married people are the best people to raise a child. Marriage is a status. Husband and Wife are labels. I've seen unmarried couples just as "in love" as married couples. We live in a world where divorces are as common as Geodudes in Pokemon caves.
I do not agree that married people are the best people to raise a child. Marriage is a status. Husband and Wife are labels. I've seen unmarried couples just as "in love" as married couples. We live in a world where divorces are as common as Geodudes in Pokemon caves.
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." -Optimus Prime
I believe that sex before marrige, or even learning the girl's name for that matter, is included in the freedom that Optimus Prime, and the Bill of Rights guarantee me. It's like Firestorm said, "...it's just a label." So, what does it matter whether or not you have the privilage of telling your partner to do the dishes after the sex? It doesn't really.
If you're trying to "save yourself for the one you love", then I have no qualms with you. I just think it's a bit silly. I know that I will not be stuck with someone who is terrible at sheet wraslin'. Sex is meant to be enjoyed. Why else would there be so many nerves down there?
I believe that sex before marrige, or even learning the girl's name for that matter, is included in the freedom that Optimus Prime, and the Bill of Rights guarantee me. It's like Firestorm said, "...it's just a label." So, what does it matter whether or not you have the privilage of telling your partner to do the dishes after the sex? It doesn't really.
If you're trying to "save yourself for the one you love", then I have no qualms with you. I just think it's a bit silly. I know that I will not be stuck with someone who is terrible at sheet wraslin'. Sex is meant to be enjoyed. Why else would there be so many nerves down there?
Pointless analogy is pointless. Again, Procreation is a natural function of sex. I believe there is something wrong in a couples' thinking (perhaps unnatural) when you want to have sex and want to completely take out procreation by medical means (perhaps i'll give a little leeway for those with financial problems, but that's still too iffy, because there's adoption and i know of several lower middle class families with many (5+) children in my church.)Lati0s said:
Firestorm said:
You get the gist of it, but you are missing the entire picture.
Marriage is a status of commitment. Husband and Wife are labels of a couple that are committed until "death do them part". You know those vows people take at the alter? They aren't just for show, those vows are meant to be taken serious.
What is this love? Is it this touchy feelings passionate romance? or is it commitment for life love?
Am i wrong to believe your suggesting an appeal to popularity?
Here is another fact: Sex is also the natural human act of procreation. I'm not saying it's wrong to enjoy sex, far be it from me to say that. I'm just saying that unless you're willing to shed the money out for "protection", why not just enjoy it in a monogamous relationship that's best fit for raising kids?DarthChake said:
blah blah blah computers are unnatural argument blah blah blah
BECAUSE CLEARLY NATURAL STUFF IS GOOD RIGHT?
Yes, you are very wrong to think that. He was just saying that divorce is so common that two people being married no longer truly means that they are dedicated to maintaining a life long relationship. That isn't appeal to popularity, but nice try. Maybe you should actually learn what these logical fallacies are rather than looking for key words in sentences.
edit:
Nice catch. I meant popularity. My fingers typed authority without me noticing it.
Yes it is. Let me make this simple.
1. You claim that a married couple is the best unit for child raising because when two people marry it shows they are dedicated to fostering a life long relationship.
2. Firestorm counters this assertion. He points out that divorce is really common. It is so common that is can easily be said that two people deciding to marry no longer means that they are truly dedicated to fostering a life long relationship.
I don't get why you don't get it. You think a married couple is the best unit for child raising because they are going to stay married until death parts them. That is not true in around 40-50% of cases.
Wait a minute... So Procreation in Sexual Intercourse is a bad thing?
It's hard to read and understand an incoherent post such as yours.
... I believe i said appeal to popularity? Not appeal to authority? Actually i am wrong, so let me ask my question again, Am i wrong to believe that this an appeal to Common Practice?
No. Your argument was 'married people are the best at raising children because they are committed' his response was 'with the prevalence of divorce marriage no longer implies life long commitment'
As to everything else that you have been saying, procreation is one of the functions of sex but it is certainly not the only one, I see no reason why you should refrain from having sex if you do not want to procreate as long as you take the necessary precautions. Just curious, do you oppose sex without the intent of procreation in married couples as well, or only in unmarried couples?
My point sort of was that the vows taken at the alter are just for show as demonstrated by the divorce rate. People who don't want to go through the show of getting married can lead committed relationships just as well as those who do. Most women want a wedding, but if whoever I end up wanting to spend my life with doesn't, I really have no problem with a common law union.
Man oh man, we have Christians who don't even know their own beliefs and then they're getting butthurt for being attacked for it.
Oh yeah and I REALLY had to laugh at that one comment "I've seen unmarried couples just as in love as married couples." Boy that was a good one. Why do you think most couples decide to marry in the first place?
But seriously, "Christians" should know what their talking about (I.E. why fornication is a sin) before they start condemning others.
Oh yeah and I REALLY had to laugh at that one comment "I've seen unmarried couples just as in love as married couples." Boy that was a good one. Why do you think most couples decide to marry in the first place?
But seriously, "Christians" should know what their talking about (I.E. why fornication is a sin) before they start condemning others.
they're
How generous of you. Next time you have payed the expenses for 9 months of carrying a baby, I'll listen to you argue this point.
50% divorce rate. They're not being taken very seriously, are they?
These questions are incredibly silly. Trying to define/quantify "love" is like trying to count grains of sand on a beach.
I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. You just said sex for fun is okay as long as you used protection against conception. Then what is the issue here?
How generous of you. Next time you have payed the expenses for 9 months of carrying a baby, I'll listen to you argue this point.
50% divorce rate. They're not being taken very seriously, are they?
These questions are incredibly silly. Trying to define/quantify "love" is like trying to count grains of sand on a beach.
I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. You just said sex for fun is okay as long as you used protection against conception. Then what is the issue here?
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