Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]

[Yung Dramps]

I'm super against banning Unaware. Not because it's not centralizing, it is, but if we ban it there's literally nothing stopping Beast Boost+Moxie/Soul Heart or Contrary teams from running the tier. It's a necessary evil unless we want to ban like 5 or more abilities on top of that. I think a question that needs to be asked is how do we get close to balance (because pure balance here is an impossibility imo) without the tier becoming too restrictive or stale/uninteresting.

Edit: Also unrelated but Pangoro is ridiculous just sayin'

This is flawed logic. Remember: Never ever rely on broken to check broken. I'm neutral about Unaware, but stopping any and all set-up seems dumb to me

Also, Dazzling and Queenly Majesty need to be seriously considered for a ban. While it is true that Tsareena and Bruxish aren't great on their own, they can still do pretty well with the boosts of other teammates. And seriously, for a meta as offense-heavy as this, the ability to render all priority obsolete is an incredible boon: A little too incredible if you ask me.

 

[Ryolain]

This is flawed logic. Remember: Never ever rely on broken to check broken. I'm neutral about Unaware, but stopping any and all set-up seems dumb to me

Also, Dazzling and Queenly Majesty need to be seriously considered for a ban. While it is true that Tsareena and Bruxish aren't great on their own, they can still do pretty well with the boosts of other teammates. And seriously, for a meta as offense-heavy as this, the ability to render all priority obsolete is an incredible boon: A little too incredible if you ask me.

The issue is that this is a very matchup-based meta, so you have to accept that certain teams will just auto-lose to other teams. If we ban too much we risk ending up with only 2 or 3 archetypes left; while that’s normally an acceptable risk in standard metas, in OMs I think there’s also an interest in keeping as many things alive as possible in order to not crush the spirit of the OM. What’s the point of sharing abilities if half the useful abilities get banned?

Not to say we should just stop banning things now. All I’m saying is I don’t think the “don’t keep broken to check broken” adage applies as strictly in OMs.

 

[W0rm]

While in standard meta's I agree with that philosophy, I'd argue that this meta is built on a foundation of broken checking broken, and that's what it's been about all along. We allow things like Multiscale, Magic Guard and Regenerator because the offensive presence of this meta is too great not to, despite the fact that it leads to unprepared stall match-ups ending in endless switching. We allow Mold Breaker and Skill Link because they prevent goofy gimmick's like that Oran Berry team from rendering the meta unplayable. Etc. etc.

Banning Unaware will have drastic effects on the meta that could lead to a sizeable number of abilities being broken in it's wake. Banning those abilities could potentially crush offences capabilities outside of a few archetypes, leading to an overabundance of stall teams. Banning the abilities that make stall as good as it is will eventually leave us with very few viable pokemon and abilities that are available for sharing, and we're already out here running stuff like Cincinno/Trevenant.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Also, Dazzling and Queenly Majesty need to be seriously considered for a ban. While it is true that Tsareena and Bruxish aren't great on their own, they can still do pretty well with the boosts of other teammates. And seriously, for a meta as offense-heavy as this, the ability to render all priority obsolete is an incredible boon: A little too incredible if you ask me.

To be honest, I'm not even sure how Tsareena and Bruxish being pretty mediocre would help making their respective abilities less of a problem. Not to say I want to se them banned, I'll stay neutral for the time being, but I don't really think "Donator is bad so the ability being shared is less of a problem" works

I remember when Simple could still be used and people used the exact same arguement as a reason for why it should stay: You'd be forced on Bibarel / Swoobat, two pokémon with way below average stats. Yet, here we are today, with unshareable Simple. While Simple and QM/D can't really be compared due to Simple being an arguably better ability, we've seen that sometimes sacrificing one slot to a weaker mon in exchange for a good ability is still a pretty viable choice. That's how I see it, anyways.

TL;DR: I think we should avoid saying that an ability is less broken because of the limitations of what donates it to the team.

 

[W0rm]

Also, Bruxish and Tsareena aren't even terrible and both manage to hit pretty hard in this meta. While they're not powerhouses by any means, they're strong enough, in conjunction with the benefits of their abilities, to easily justify their presence on most teams.

 

[Iknowup]

Edit: Also unrelated but Pangoro is ridiculous just sayin'

^This

Toxic boost poison heal teams are running rampart and it gets insane with sturdy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699293842

This is one of them.

Pangoro suspect test anyone?

It is unessacarily strong even unaware/sturdy doesn't work because of Moldycheesebreaker.

Combining this with a sturdy ally can be devastating due to drain punch also being available.
DP along with poison heal may even lead to multiple sturdy activating.

All in all I hope eith pangoro gets banned or Toxic boost becomes unspreadable.

 

[W0rm]

Pangoro doesn't need Toxic Boost/Guts to be ridiculous since it gets Swords Dance and can pretty easily stack defensive abilities to get a boost no problem. Toxic Boost/Guts might exacerbate the problem but banning them wouldn't make Pangoro much worse, it'd just force people to be more creative.

 

[Iknowup]

I found a magic bounce tornadus here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699312656
is this a glitch or is magic bounce actually sharable now?

 

[Mintly]

I found a magic bounce tornadus here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699312656
is this a glitch or is magic bounce actually sharable now?

Its Sharable.

And to all you Guts/Toxic Boost/Poison Heal Victims i bring you:

(Flying type protection not included)

 

[W0rm]

Yeah, Magic Bounce was deemed not broken, or at least, was deemed a worse alternative to Magic Guard in most cases as unlike Magic Guard it doesn't prevent things like recoil, hazard damage (at least, not directly), poison damage on Guts teams (even if Poison Heal is the better option) etc.

That being said, I imagine if we get to a point where Magic Guard gets banned, MBounce will likely follow suit, though I can't say for sure.

 

[W0rm]

Sorry for the double post, but in an effort to start some discussion that's not centred around bans, I've written up some VR Noms I think better reflect the current state of the meta, feel free to argue with me on these. I tried to keep the jumps relatively small so as not to necessitate replays, though I think they're common enough mons that most people have experienced their power (or lack thereof) in realtime.

VR Noms

Porygon-Z: A+ > A-
Porygon-Z is a fantastic mon without a doubt, and one of the tier's better adaptability donors, unfortunately, physical offense has proven itself a more threatening force in Shared Power thanks to abilities like Skill Link and Guts, and GonZ has a harder time fitting onto those teams than M-Bee and Crawdaunt respectively. GonZ was able to fit onto teams with Flare Boost, but the lack of Quick Feet has hurt those team archetypes. Unburden + Download + Contrary was also a thing, but that's been nerfed as well, meaning all of GonZ niche's have taken a significant hit recently. Barring a skill link ban, my next nomination is

Beedrill-mega: B > A
Honestly might even deserve to be higher, but I haven't had a lot of luck with the mon. Regardless, I've seen what it can do in others hands, and with Skill Link being the premier offensive playstyle at the moment, Beedrill is the adaptability donor of choice thanks to it's powerful pin-missile and nearly unsurpassed speed tier. Unfortunately, it's outrun by mega zam and has no way to defeat common scarfers, but manages to be a devastating mon against defensive teams.

Pangoro: B+ > A-
Pangoro is imo, the tier's most threatening Mold Breaker at the moment, even moreso than KyuB now that Unburden/Quick Feet have been banned. KyuB no longer has the tools to outspeed the games more common mons, and with no access to priority or natural speed-boosting methods, functions roughly the same as KyuB in standard play. An extremely hard hitting wallbreaker that's unfortunately easy for the opponent to play around. Psychic Terrain is a hard counter to Pangoro which prevents it from reaching it's full potential, but unprepared offense teams are obligated to pack a focus sash or two if they're hoping to take on Pangoro at full force. Tempted to rank it higher but the fact that it's relatively useless with checks in place and requires as much team support as it does deters me from doing so.

Kyurem-black: S > A+
I honestly haven't seen much of this guy lately and when I have he's not giving me trouble at all. See my arguments for Pangoro's ranking as to why I think KyuB deserves to drop. Still ranked higher than Pang for sheer versatility, fitting onto teams more easily, but overall not as threatening imo.

Clefable: S > S+
The reigning queen of SP, Clefable has not one but two abilities that benefit all team archetypes. Skill Link teams love Unaware's ability to crush Stamina abusers and defensive teams love not getting wrecked by Beast Boost, Magic Guard is Magic Guard, and has relegated Clefable to S-Rank from day one. Clefable's abilities are so good that most teams that run it would run 2 Clefables if they could, but have to settle for stuff like Pyukumuku or Reuniclus instead. The fact that Unaware is as good as it is also provides it with the ability to be run alongside it's main competition as a Magic Guard user, Alakazam. Absolutely the tier's defining mon; even moreso than Dragonite.

Dragonite: S+ > S
Multiscale is still fantastic, but is troubled at the moment by the prevalence of Skill Link and Mold Breaker mons. Not much else to say other than that I've seen it fall by the wayside since the ladder went live and Skill Link has started to overshadow Guts as offenses go-to gimmick.

 

[Lcass4919]

call me crazy, but i honestly think fluffy (and maybe fur coat) should be considered for a unban. the offensive curve this meta shows is MORE then enough to warrent these abilities back without crippling offense to oblivion... honestly, it sounds sketchy on paper, but physical attackers are already practically at their prime in this tier. and most strategies laugh at fluffy anyways. most multihit bypasses contact, triage has a mold breaker PH guts/tboost and pangoro, etc. etc. but it would be a much needed nerf to physical offense.

and although you might think unbanning both if not one would make stall completely impossible to handle, but tbh, it wouldnt change stall much. as in order to run one or the other, you need to either run a average mon with fluffy, which means a lot of moves bypass it as it is, and provides a fire weakness to your entire team, or one of two garbage stallmons with a great ability. and thats 1 out of 5 slots stall loses, so now it has to choose the rest of its abilities. think of it like this, the current stall team would need to sacrifice stamina to run fluffy...and honestly, is that REALLY a bad thing?

now, for my next point, "they are way too bulky" while this is true for stall (and hell even offense) this will provide us with something we DESPERATELY need to move forward: a fucking backbone. we will have SOMETHING to soak hits so we can finally consider taking action on centralizing abilities like multiscale, sturdy, PH and magic guard. i know this sounds crazy, like unleashing two lions to take on the wolf in our backyard, but honestly, i truely think this is the step this meta needs to consider to push forward and stablize. and id rather trust these two trained lions in my backyard then a wolf.

if not fur coat, at least give fluffy a chance. both togeather does sound insanely crazy so im not going to argue about that.

the problem i see is its rock paper scissors in terms of "What is overpowered" stall, multihit, ph triage, physical attacking HO are the dominant strats and all find one other OP and theres nothing we can do to balance this tier without tipping one ahead of the other...and well all four dislike fluffy and fur coat, so it could provide a "blanket" to help us force the meta into a favorable state.

because lets be real. both multiscale/sturdy + magic guard is a HUGE problem in this tier. but we NEED them to keep these archetypes in check. fluffy is essentially the puzzle peice we need so we can take action without a negative impact. idk. we never even seen these abilities in action, so we honestly cant say for certain they would be OP or centralizing. i say for now, give fluffy a chance to show what it can do.

but before you comment about how broken fluffy would be and it would only worsen the triage and stall problem, just remember: in order to use bewear on triage, stall, or physical HO teams, you have to...yknow...run bewear over one of your other abilities. lol. idk i think its worth a shot.

...

*puts on tinfoil cap* okay im ready for the backlash people...come at me.

 

[Deleted User 229847]

Edit: Also unrelated but Pangoro is ridiculous just sayin'

yea, I'm playing shared power a lot rn (spamming stall teams since I like the playstyle) but I honestly can't understand how can I even counter this panda. Mold breaker is so fucking lame and his moveset virtually hits everything (gunk shot/knock off/drain punch usually).

Also, endless stall battles are a big problem IMO.

but before you comment about how broken fluffy would be and it would only worsen the triage and stall problem, just remember: in order to use bewear on triage, stall, or physical HO teams, you have to...yknow...run bewear over one of your other abilities. lol. idk i think its worth a shot.

people already run gimmicky or underpowered mons such as tsareena and bruxish. And it's not like Milotic is that good of a mon either. Do you want to double everyone's defence when we have to use poison heal+marvel scale for a 50% (that actually can be countered via misty terrain)?

 

[Chimera404]

Alright so:

Prankster/Cheek Pouch/Dazzling/Harvest with Starf Berry and Substitute/Protect is Moody 2.0, and doesn't even have the drawback of reducing one of your stats per turn. You cannot break the cycle. You cannot use priority outside of Mold Breaker Pangoro to fuck with the substitute timing, and even that doesn't work against Trevenant unless you also have Scrappy.

There are three things that destroy this team: Skill Link, Unaware Stall and anything running sound attacks or taunt. Against anything other than these you turn the game into a pure RNGfest - whether or not Harvest fails a bunch of turns in a row, what stat boosts you get, and whether or not a lucky crit breaks your cycle after you run out of substitute PP. And even if these things do happen, since the overall odds are not that bad in the long run, you still have 5 other pokemon that can do the same exact shit, thanks to the very wide availability of Substitute/Protect. You can also PP stall many offensive teams completely out of PP with this technique. Due to the enforced randomness of the playstyle and the inability for the opponent to have meaningful counterplay, I believe that this playstyle is UNCOMPETITIVE and may require a targeted ban.

Now, Skill Link and stall are both very popular in this meta game, so you might think that this is not banworthy. But do note that I have only mentioned 4 abilities in the header. This represents the 'core requirements' of the playstyle, and there are a variety of Pokemon in the last two slots which can heavily mitigate the issues this team has.

First and foremost is Stamina, which, as we know, is very effective against non-Unaware Skill Link. Running Mudsdale in one of your two nonessential slots gives you a slightly better matchup against Skill Link, to the point where you might not get 6-0'd. It is still by no means a good, or even competitive matchup, but it does let you survive the first hit and get some surprise KOs to even the odds. Full HP/Defense investment on literally every single Pokemon is highly recommended if you intend to run Stamina, and if you're serious about not instantly clicking X vs Skill Link teams, you should be running Klefki as your Prankster Pokemon as it deals effectively with most Skill Link users. Both Thunder Wave/Foul Play and Subtect/Starf Berry are viable options for Klefki.

Next is Mold Breaker. Running a Mold Breaker on the team makes the matchup against Offensive Unaware a lot easier, though it still loses to full PP stall since it is hard to get boosts when your substitute doesn't die, and you don't apply enough pressure on stall to stop them from constantly rotating until you run out of PP. But Cheek Pouch recovery gives you enough healing to rotate around rocks and TSPikes indefinitely as well, which can turn matches into contests of patience.

Next up is Magic Bounce. This is occasionally useful against offense, and very good against the very rare Taunts in the meta, but it also turns stall into contests of who gets bored first, as most Stall teams cannot do 33% of your health in a direct attack per turn, allowing you to rotate around indefinitely with Cheek Pouch recovery. About as stupid as it sounds.

A gimmick to deal with sound attacks like Scrappy Boomburst is Soundproof. It also deals with Taunts, which is very useful. Would not recommend using as neither sound attacks nor Taunts are particularly common in a meta filled with Magic Bounce and Contrary boosting, but it's here.

Finally we have Pressure, which is just stupid IMO, but effective. Remember Vincune, which Sub/Protect stalls teams very effectively using Pressure to run opponents out of attacks that can damage it? Now imagine 6 of them with enough recovery to stall out the full 32 turns of substitute and protect. Considering that I've stalled Contrary Offense out of Kyurem and Victini PP without pressure, it can get really silly against offensive teams.

I have written this with the intent of convincing the Shared Power tier leaders that this is both a viable and an uncompetitive playstyle, and I believe that there should be a ban targeted at the playstyle, either banning Starf Berry or getting rid of Dazzling/Queenly Majesty which enable this playstyle to exist.


Some replays to demonstrate how the team works and how to deal with teams lacking Dazzling:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699356182 - My first battle against one of these teams, which inspired me to build a foolproof version. Quick Attack and Extremespeed come in clutch here.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699370565 - 107 turn battle where I slowly but surely stall out a Contrary Pinsir and the one substitute Victini in existence.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699376186 - Slightly higher on the ladder, this time up against a Toxic Boost/Guts team.

 

[W0rm]

yea, I'm playing shared power a lot rn (spamming stall teams since I like the playstyle) but I honestly can't understand how can I even counter this panda. Mold breaker is so fucking lame and his moveset virtually hits everything (gunk shot/knock off/drain punch usually).

Also, endless stall battles are a big problem IMO.




people already run gimmicky or underpowered mons such as tsareena and bruxish. And it's not like Milotic is that good of a mon either. Do you want to double everyone's defence when we have to use poison heal+marvel scale for a 50% (that actually can be countered via misty terrain)?

What I'd suggest in regards to Fluffy, though it's up to Haaku. ; is that we use the upcoming Shared Power tournament to do a suspect-test of sorts where Fluffy is the required ability for one of the rounds. This allows us to perform a soft-suspect test without affecting the ladder in the limited amount of time that we have it. As has been said, Fluffy requires contact to activate, meaning it's not as damaging to the meta as Fur Coat, but could be potentially useful at bringing physical and special offense to equal playing fields, as right now, physical is by far the dominating choice.

 

[MiguThePigu]

I'd like to go off the previous post about Starf Berry spam. I built a team several days ago (notably without Dazzling) that I had a good amount of success with (despite testing loads of bad teams, I did well with several versions of it such as the one below and ended in the 1400's).
https://pokepast.es/208e881c9f5e561f (Lots of moves are changeable here, such as the Destiny Bond on Swalot and Dedenne as a whole)

Unfortunately I haven't been saving my replays but I agree 100% that it should be banned. While seemingly inconsistent and gimmicky, Substitute+Protect+Gluttony gives so many chances for Harvest to activate that it pretty much ensures that you stay near full health and get a ton of boosts. It doesn't take long for Kyurem-Black to become unstoppable, especially because it ignores Sturdy and enjoys any type of boost with it's mixed coverage. Gluttony lets it stay healthy enough to take advantage of the Defense and Special Defense boosts, becoming impossible to kill after 1 or 2 in each stat. Now let me cover a few seemingly glaring weaknesses:

Pangoro/Triage: While it seems that Triage Mold Breaker Drain Punch would completely counter this strategy, the combination of Unaware Quagsire with Swalot (a surprisingly good counter) and most notably Trevenant render Pangoro and Conkeldurr useless. The rare Scrappy can be a problem, but even then Swalot tanks Guts Toxic Boost Drain Punch and can win with even mediocre luck:
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swalot: 129-153 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO

Unaware+Skill Link: Threats like Cloyster and Beedrill have an incredibly difficult time breaking through the constantly healing Klefki and Quagsire, especially because the Starf Berry can heal in between hits of Pin Missle or Icicle Spear. Prankster Thunder Wave will also do very well on the teams without Dazzling. Finally, running physically defensive spreads on most if not all the team makes this match up easier. It should be said that this match up is the most reliant on Harvest luck however.

Bird Spam: Versions of the team with Dazzling don't have to worry about this archetype at all, while the team I posted can power through with Kyurem-Black which sets up many boosts easily on Mega Pinsir, their mandatory lead (a single defense boost can wall most of the team). Dedenne, Klefki, and Quagsire also do well against this archetype.

Stall: If the stall player lets Kyurem get boosts, this match up is easy. However, if the stall player is smart (ie never attacks), this is by far the worst matchup as Substitute will never be broken. Using Wood Hammer recoil to get boosts with Trevenant can sometimes work, but requires great luck and only works in the rare case that the stall team does not use Unaware. Thus the game turns into PP stall. With Regenerator it seems that Stall should win the PP war; however, simply switching around lets Starf Berry act as a pseudo-Regenerator and essentially makes the battle endless.

Nearly all other teams lose easily to Kyurem-Black lead with the rare exceptions of Taunt and Unnerve. Taunt is rare and can be stopped, and Unnerve is just not an ability you want to run.

Thus, with the right luck, this team can beat nearly all archetypes and is not competitive. However, I do not think that banning Dazzling or Queenly Majesty will kill this playstyle as Chimera suggested. Banning Starf Berry or even Harvest or Cheek Pouch all seem like more logical bans. I'm unsure of this, but I feel that a Sitrus Berry PP stall may be a solid play style if Starf Berry is banned, making me lean towards simply banning either of the latter abilities.

 

[Deleted User 229847]

There are three things that destroy this team: Skill Link, Unaware Stall and anything running sound attacks or taunt. Against anything other than these you turn the game into a pure RNGfest - whether or not Harvest fails a bunch of turns in a row, what stat boosts you get, and whether or not a lucky crit breaks your cycle after you run out of substitute PP. And even if these things do happen, since the overall odds are not that bad in the long run, you still have 5 other pokemon that can do the same exact shit, thanks to the very wide availability of Substitute/Protect. You can also PP stall many offensive teams completely out of PP with this technique. Due to the enforced randomness of the playstyle and the inability for the opponent to have meaningful counterplay, I believe that this playstyle is UNCOMPETITIVE and may require a targeted ban.

You listed 3 (or 4 if we count sound attacks) counters. I believe that this metagame is not that much different from stone-paper-scissors, so long as we have a few counters, it should be completely fine.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

OK. Call me crazy, but I think the current meta is fine now, bar maybe Magic Guard + Sturdy or Magic Guard + Multiscale.

Let's face it. This meta is another "Ultimate-Z or Metagamiate" in the sense that it's broken by it's nature, so there is NO way for it to be balanced without banning a million things first (and we already banned many things). So because of that, the term "broken checking broken" doesn't apply here because the meta IS broken.

With that said, there can be things that can be managed to make the meta better without banning a million things, though with current situation, you would need to ban 2 things at once because once one leaves, the other have to. As we know MG + Multiscale and MG + Sturdy are issues now. So, Would you prefer banning Magic Guard + Innards Out (it HAS to go with MG) or Multiscale + Sturdy?

Also Pangoro isn't broken, stop suggesting for a ban. It's good but not broken.

As for Fluffy, NO. We already have Multiscale, Marvel Scale, Stamina and that Gogoat's Ability (I forgot the name) that boosts Defense to fend off Physical Attackers. Why would you want more? It should be enough. As for "we must carry Bewear to have Fluffy" well, you carry Mudsdale for Stamina and Milotic for Marvel Scale so bringing "bad" mons doesn't matter because teams still work.

 

[Deleted User 229847]

Tell me your secrets, how do you counter pangoro? I can't actually come up with a good strategy. Is every stall team gonna lose to him or what?

 

[Chimera404]

You listed 3 (or 4 if we count sound attacks) counters. I believe that this metagame is not that much different from stone-paper-scissors, so long as we have a few counters, it should be completely fine.

The point of contention is not whether or not Starf spam is broken; there are several archetypes that I would argue are stronger. It is enough that the strategy is viable and strong. The issue is that this playstyle turns the match into a contest of RNG. There is very little player agency involved on both sides and the outcome is dependent mostly on Harvest and Starf RNG. By Smogon's Tiering Framework, this should be deemed 'Uncompetitive' in the same way Moody and Baton Pass are.

Which is fitting, since this strategy is pretty much Moody*6.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Tell me your secrets, how do you counter pangoro? I can't actually come up with a good strategy. Is every stall team gonna lose to him or what?

If you mean passive stall or pp stall, ofc you are gonna lose. Don't use it. If not, Fairies + Intimidate are checks. They bypass Moldy. Try Clefable or Magearna with defense boosts. Pangoro is slow and if it uses Triage, Gunk Shot wouldn't be boosted, so you can Moonblast it. If you're scared of Contrary, carry Buzzwole, which should completely wall it.

 

[Atroxian]

Is skill swap suppose to not work? I have Spinda on my team to skill swap contrary to throw a "wrench" into stamina/set-up based teams. It does not work.

 

[W0rm]

Skill Swap will only swap out the user and the opponents primary abilities, so it's not likely to work against Stamina teams unless specifically used against Mudsdale.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Skill Swap will only swap out the user and the opponents primary abilities, so it's not likely to work against Stamina teams unless specifically used against Mudsdale.

Actually, I think what Atroxian wanted to do was use it against anything but Mudsdale, so that Stamina would lower def instead.

 

[Mintly]

Tell me your secrets, how do you counter pangoro? I can't actually come up with a good strategy. Is every stall team gonna lose to him or what?

Hit Hard and Hit Fast. I've seen a lot of Triage Drain Punch to block Dazzling, so you need to either Out-Prioritize them or Make sure you can at least survive one hit.