Metagame Shared Power

Hi there,
Imo the only things that really and I mean really need to be banned are destiny bond and skill link.
Skill Link literally on every second team I face and even when I bring hard counter abilities like Stamina, it's a pain in the ass to fight. It's super boring and defines the whole metagame.
Destiny Bond.... It's not ok...
Please ban it.
LG Phil
 
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Since the ban of Regenerator and magearna stall team disappeared or its me?
I only see 3 types of team
Sturdy team (and the variant sturdy weak armor)
Skill Link team
And quick draw team (no skill foul haxx team)
 
I'm pretty surprised of how not broken Lando I is in this meta. I run this team https://pokepast.es/232c6c3dba91fa97 it's pretty strange but I really like the steam engine shenanigans. And to be honest, I don't think Landorus I is broken, I'd even say Blacephalon is more dangeruous (even though it's because of Lando's and porygon's abilities). But I think he does pack a punch and can break or even sweep through a team without levitate.
Also could someone give advice on how to improve it? Maybe find a better suicid lead? I also have a lot of trouble with quick draw teams, but I see I'm not the only one who gets messed by the RNG
 
Without Regenerator Multiscale is not really a problem imo. It's like sturdy teams and it's useless against skill link team.
I don't see a lot of team without a pokemon with a multi attack moove.
 
Only problem is quick draw. It's not even the most broken, just the most uncompetitive. There is literally no turn that either player is in control. Every single one is a literal coin flip. No outplaying or predicting.
 
what is a good set to run on a bewear with the fluffy ability?

Akame-Temari said:
meta supposed to be fun but so boring with spam destiny bond, quick draw, sturdy, etc :blobnauseated:
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And iron barbs/rough skin/rocky helmet. taking 50% every time you make contact is dumb. Plus any entry hazards.
 
Urshifu doesn't need to be banned, just removing wicked blow/surging strikes makes it a pretty normal pokemon in this meta. Solid stats and semi-useful ability still make it potentially worth a spot without it sweeping through everything.
 
Fishy79 said:
And iron barbs/rough skin/rocky helmet. taking 50% every time you make contact is dumb. Plus any entry hazards.
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Use long reach? No fluffy no bards skin etc

I am agree for quick draw.. Just uncompetitive and unbrain.. No skill just hazard..
You can't predict anything and your opponent can't predict too
 
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"Use Long Reach"
Like it's super easy to fit Decidueye in every team.

Ok, quoting Detox: I've had it, officially!
Fluffy + Ice Scales + Flash Fire is diabolic.
Skill Link + Technician spam is satanic.
Sturdy shenanigans are over the top.

Combinations that need to be banned:
Fluffy + Flash Fire
Fluffy + Ice Scales
Skill Link + Technician

Abilities that could be banned:
Sturdy, Adaptability

Ability that MUST be banned:
Quick Draw

Pokemons that could be unbanned:
Urshifus (Wicked Blow / Surging Strikes still banned)

That's it.
 
You guys really want to erase almost any kind of defensive team from this meta by getting rid of Fluffy and Ice Scales? Fluffy is already trivial to bypass - yes, you can fit Decidueye into your HO physical team. Ignoring Fluffy for a 2x boost to physical attacks is much more beneficial than say, a 1.33x boost from Adaptability. You're already killing anything on offense with like one boosting ability lol so I don't get the obsession with stacking so many anyway.
 
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Skankovich said:
You guys really want to erase almost any kind of defensive team from this meta by getting rid of Fluffy and Ice Scales? Fluffy is already trivial to bypass - yes, you can fit Decidueye into your HO physical team. Ignoring Fluffy for a 2x boost to physical attacks is much more beneficial than say, a 1.33x boost from Adaptability. You're already killing anything on offense with like one boosting ability lol so I don't get the obsession with stacking so many anyway.
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the problem is that Decidueye is not that easy to fit on teams.
 
Skankovich said:
You guys really want to erase almost any kind of defensive team from this meta by getting rid of Fluffy and Ice Scales? Fluffy is already trivial to bypass - yes, you can fit Decidueye into your HO physical team. Ignoring Fluffy for a 2x boost to physical attacks is much more beneficial than say, a 1.33x boost from Adaptability. You're already killing anything on offense with like one boosting ability lol so I don't get the obsession with stacking so many anyway.
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Fluffy is not the problem
Is it beeing combined with other things
Stamina, Ice Scales, Flash Fire... This makes very hard to break

Long Reach also ignores Tough Claws

And I think stacking too much offensive abilities is also problematic
 
I promised myself I give the new meta at least a day before saying anything. I quietly played ladder, experimenting with a bunch of different teams. I have a bunch of thoughts, although most of them are pretty rambly and non-coherent since I only took notes.

-Lots of gimmicky offense, but generally they can be put into 3 categories: Study offense (Sturdy + Weak Armor mons with standard HustleGuard core and sometimes Decidueye), Skill Link offense (Skill Link + Technician mons with HustleGuard core and filler, usually Craw and Kart), and Quick Draw offense (Slowbro-G and random powerful slow mons, usually has Trick Room support)

-These all create an unhealthy RPS kind of game: Skill Link beats Sturdy, Sturdy beats Quick Draw, and Quick Draw beats Skill Link. This leads to many games between offense being decided on team preview with very little way around it.

-Beyond that, teams have similar structures. Core of abilities that define the team, HustleGuard core, and your choice of Tsareena, Decidueye, Crawdaunt or Kartana for your final 1-3 slots. It's extremely boring building for SP because the top three offenses I stated invalidate almost everything else, making building for offense very linear and uncreative.

-Stall teams are much rarer, but not completely uncommon. Standard FluffyScales builds are falling out of favor for the more common rain stall, which is probably the only playstyle that allows for variation. FluffyScales is still good though and must be accounted for when building.

Based off these notes, I was able to conclude that Shared Power is in an extremely unhealthy meta right now, dominated by 3 types of offense that function in a RPS way, limiting building while simultaneously being unfun to play due to its RPS nature. It seems to me that Regen was the linchpin to all of this. With stall teams now nerfed, offense was able to shine in a way not seen during its short ladder appearance so far. In terms of bans, I wholeheartedly support a Quick Draw ban, as it is the most dumb of the 3 types of offense, taking the game out of the player's hands based on a Scald burn. I don't know if this will properly balance the tier, and I have other ideas on how to stop this meta from becoming further unhealthy (Skill Link + Technichan ban, Kartana ban, possibly a Beast Boost ban, reintroducing defensive abilities such as Magic Bounce), but these are simply rough ideas and a Quick Draw ban would be a good place to start anyway.
 
Defensive teams are borderline unviable imo after the ban of Regenerator, it is much too difficult to maintain Multiscale now and Fluffy still has its shortcomings. Only working against contact moves means that there's many powerful physical moves that it just does nothing against. Many teams I've seen are opting for Stamina over Fluffy just to match up better against Skill Link.

Decidueye is also a viable mon, yeah. I'm one of the handful of people I've seen using a Grassy Terrain offense team, and Decidueye fits very nicely on it by letting me overwhelm Fluffy teams easily, as well as being another Grassy Glide user. Grassy Terrain teams are quite fun and can be good for resetting Psychic Terrain and outprioritizing Quick Draw, letting you click Grassy Glide freely. Against teams with Tsareena it is a bit reliant on Scarf Kartana to clean up, but being able to outprioritize things like Prankster D-Bond can be useful, even though you still generally lose to that team archetype. It's also a little weak to teams with multiple fast 4x Grass resists, like opposing Kartana for instance, but it stacks a lot of power to break through bulky teams, between Grassy Surge, Hustle, and Adaptability. I think that since the Regenerator ban the decline of bulky teams has actually comparatively nerfed this team a bit.
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https://pokepast.es/1bb2d0631a6cbd0d
Here's a good Grassy Terrain team if you want to try it out, might as well post it now since the meta is changing so quickly.
 
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Honestly we should probably just copy the banlist from where we left off in Gen 7 Shared Power and go from there. Having to switch mons in hasn't stopped the same things from being broken. The only exception I would make is Fluffy.

fratelli bc said:
Fluffy is not the problem
Is it beeing combined with other things
Stamina, Ice Scales, Flash Fire... This makes very hard to break

Long Reach also ignores Tough Claws

And I think stacking too much offensive abilities is also problematic
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I don't think Long Reach overwriting Tough Claws is particularly pivotal at all - as I said before, a simple Hustle+No Guard core will be enough for offensive teams to break through stall when they can't boost their defense with Fluffy. You don't need to run all of Adaptability/Hustle/No Guard/Tough Claws at once: it's overkill. And if you are then you don't even need to bypass Fluffy anyway with the raw damage output lol.

Defensive teams outside of rain stall imo aren't very good right now and don't need further nerfs.
 
Skankovich said:
I don't think Long Reach overwriting Tough Claws is particularly pivotal at all - as I said before, a simple Hustle+No Guard core will be enough for offensive teams to break through stall when they can't boost their defense with Fluffy. You don't need to run all of Adaptability/Hustle/No Guard/Tough Claws at once: it's overkill. And if you are then you don't even need to bypass Fluffy anyway with the raw damage output lol.

Defensive teams outside of rain stall imo aren't very good right now and don't need further nerfs.
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I still think that Fluffy still needs to be limited to not be used with Flash Fire or Ice Scales.

Ok, there is a Grassy Terrain team that Decidueye is good. But if I want to run other things?

As I said before, this meta is heavily matchup depending. You can tell from the team preview if you gonna win or lose with almost 90% accuracy.

However, I don't think that FluffyScalesFire should be looked first.

Technician + Skill Link
Sturdy + Weak Armor
"Draw 'n Claw"
Moxie + Beast Boost + (any) Neigh

Those are the main issue right now.

:slowbro-galar: first
After, those 190 base power moves that TechLink allows.

And only then look into Fluffy and bringing other defensive abilities back.
 
:tsareena: Queenly Majesty and Quick Draw are BANNED :slowbro-galar:

Hello, Council Member Mengy here to announce:
  • Queenly Majesty is banned for enabling super-sweepers
  • Quick Draw is banned for being luck-based and uncompetitive
  • Toxapex is unbanned, since Regenerator was banned
For more reasoning (and some new teams), read on!
I am seeing a lot of frustration in this thread with the Quick Draw teams and Destiny Bond spam teams that have been rising in popularity, and while these strategies can be extremely irritating, the reason they have become so popular recently is because they are the only teams with a consistent matchup versus big scary setup sweepers. Versus a lot of teams, a 1 HP Cloyster is impossible to deal any damage to, thanks to priority-preventing abilities, and Quick Draw hax or Destiny Bond trades are the only ways to revenge.

With Queenly Majesty out of the equation, there are many more options for dealing with boosting sweepers, like priority moves or Prankster Twave or any number of other things. Quick Draw has always been a bunch of coin flips, so we're tossing it out as well, and Pex was meant to be unbanned after the Regen ban. Merciless is a pretty cool ability!

Will Queenly Majesty simply be replaced by Psychic Surge? Maybe, but at least there are workarounds to that, like opposing terrains and just waiting for the field effect to expire (see below). We'll wait for the meta to develop a bit more before more bans.
With no Queenly Majesty, some powerful new priority-based strategies are now possible! Check out this Grassy Surge team, which combines some of the strongest priority with the ability to break through Psychic Surge:
:kartana: :dhelmise: :heatran: :rillaboom: :crawdaunt: :zygarde:
https://pokepast.es/c341397233b5c8b1

This team is built around a core of Kartana, Dhelmise, and Heatran, which support each other very nicely. Steelworker gives the Steel types insane breaking power, Flash Fire removes the Grasses' biggest weakness, and Beast Boost lets all of the sweepers snowball after getting a kill.

Rillaboom puts the team into Grassy Spam waters. Grassy Surge gives Rillaboom and Dhelmise strong priority while also acting as a perma-shuca for Heatran. With both of Kartana's STABs getting boosts from Steelworker and Grassy Surge, Crawdaunt was a natural choice for Adaptability.

In the last slot, Zygarde takes advantage of the extra Grassy Terrain recovery to set up while also being one of the few physical Ground types to not be inconvenienced by the Earthquake nerf. Even though Zygarde contributes no ability to the team, it benefits a ton from the power increases from Adaptability and Beast Boost, and Flash Fire giving a Will-O-Wisp immunity is super helpful for a team full of physical sweepers.

Versus offense, the gorilla and the origami punch holes, while versus stall, Heatran and Zygarde can be challenging to face. Dhelmise's Poltergeist and Zygarde's Thousand Arrows hit Fluffy teams for non-contact damage. Due to no multi-hit moves, the team can struggle versus Sturdy and Multiscale teams, but it has the tools to win in any matchup. Give it a shot!

There are still a lot of bans and unbans we're considering, and we'd like your input! Here's a survey that will take less than a minute:

Shared Power Survey

Happy laddering!
 
Clefable said:
:tsareena: Queenly Majesty and Quick Draw are BANNED :slowbro-galar:
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Great news. Quick Draw was basically the only thing that could get past Queenly Majesty, so banning them together makes a lot of sense. Also, sturdy was on my radar as being a bit broken, but with QM banned sturdy gets weaker, so I think it'll be fine now.
 
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