I am sorry if this isn't the right place, but I don't think Effect Spore is set up properly. In several battles I have been in, it has never once activated. Thank you!
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Metagame Shared Power
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
Nah you in the right place, did you switch into the pokemon with that ability? That is something new compared to the older Shared Power
I noticed that some people were using a slippery slope argument to defend FurScales, and I argued that such an argument is not a good way to defend it. I do believe FurScales should be banned, but that was entirely separate to that whole argument about slippery slopes. If you want to defend FurScales by making points that it is not broken or whatever, then do so (which I've already specifically said, if you read my replies properly!)
In that entire argument I of course didn't have anything to back up my claims for banning FurScales, because I wasn't arguing for that! But in my post that actually was for FurScales, I did make a case for it and gave reasons. But I do understand your sentiment of trying to keep things on the calmer side of things, and admit I got heated up more than I should have, but for the love of god, read my replies better.
'... there’s often more than one way to fix a problem, some of which won’t add more problems to the meta game, so your fallacy argument goes out the window.' What do you even mean by this? The entire fallacy argument was to make sure people knew not to argue for or against something using a slippery slope argument - it in itself was not for or against anything. I used an example with Fur Coat and SteelSpam, but that was for the pure purpose of illustrating a point, which I'm assuming you misunderstood because you probably just skim-read?
And I am entirely aware that there are more than one ways to fix a problem, but what do you even mean that it invalidates fallacies? If you advocate for an alternative solution, but with a fallacy, is my point allowed to jump back through the window? I know that FurScales, in tandem with Unaware, is what's broken - I've stated this. It's just my opinion that FurScales should be banned over Unaware, because I believe Unaware is more important to stalls consistency (again, I've already said this in my post) If you want to argue otherwise, cool! But that will be a separate argument altogether.
I'm sorry, I'm not mature enough to take this lying down or try to be the 'bigger man', but you can be assured I don't intend to go any further than this.
EDIT: So that I'm not just angrily rambling on
Kommo-o @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales / Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon / Focus Blast
- Clangorous Soul
Hawlucha @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reversal
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Endure
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales / Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon / Focus Blast
- Clangorous Soul
Hawlucha @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reversal
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Endure
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Yes, I started the battle with Vileplume, but it didn't transfer to the others following it.
Weather is dominating the metagame at the moment, with Sand or Sun on the offensive side, and Rain or Hail on the defensive. Rather than the abilities that specifically abuse weather, the inherent issue is in the ability to automatically set weather with your entire team. Every time a Pokemon switches in, you gain access to Sand + Sand Rush + other supporting abilities such as Sand Veil or Sand Force. It's the same for Sun offense with Chlorophyll + Solar Power. Defensively, Rain runs Dry Skin on stall very very effectively. Similarly, Hail abuses Ice Body and Snow Cloak, while also having access to Aurora Veil and Slush Rush.
So, I am quickbanning Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning.
So, I am quickbanning Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning.
Cool lets just ban the whole meta. Something else that helps with Furscales.
Another hilarious skeleton: Pixilate + Misty Surge + Mimicry
This core makes all of your pokemon and normal type moves fairy type. Run it with Punk Rocker, run it with Espeed, run it with Tinted Lens, run it with Adaptability, run it with Scarf Noivern, whatever floats your boat. Punk Rocker hits insanely hard and 2HKOs some surprisingly bulky shit. Queenly Majesty is decidedly rare while First Impression is resisted and often unboosted, and opposing Espeed is basically nonexistent. Is it that good? No, but it's better than the meme it looks like at first glance and can snag some surprise wins.
Inspired me deeply to make a full scarf noivern teamI noticed that some people were using a slippery slope argument to defend FurScales, and I argued that such an argument is not a good way to defend it. I do believe FurScales should be banned, but that was entirely separate to that whole argument about slippery slopes. If you want to defend FurScales by making points that it is not broken or whatever, then do so (which I've already specifically said, if you read my replies properly!)
In that entire argument I of course didn't have anything to back up my claims for banning FurScales, because I wasn't arguing for that! But in my post that actually was for FurScales, I did make a case for it and gave reasons. But I do understand your sentiment of trying to keep things on the calmer side of things, and admit I got heated up more than I should have, but for the love of god, read my replies better.
'... there’s often more than one way to fix a problem, some of which won’t add more problems to the meta game, so your fallacy argument goes out the window.' What do you even mean by this? The entire fallacy argument was to make sure people knew not to argue for or against something using a slippery slope argument - it in itself was not for or against anything. I used an example with Fur Coat and SteelSpam, but that was for the pure purpose of illustrating a point, which I'm assuming you misunderstood because you probably just skim-read?
And I am entirely aware that there are more than one ways to fix a problem, but what do you even mean that it invalidates fallacies? If you advocate for an alternative solution, but with a fallacy, is my point allowed to jump back through the window? I know that FurScales, in tandem with Unaware, is what's broken - I've stated this. It's just my opinion that FurScales should be banned over Unaware, because I believe Unaware is more important to stalls consistency (again, I've already said this in my post)
I'm sorry, I'm not mature enough to take this lying down or try to be the 'bigger man', but you can be assured I don't intend to go any further than this.
EDIT: So that I'm not just angrily rambling on
A standard Throat Spray + Clanging Soul sweeper set, but with Unburden support. Reversal Hawlucha just happens to be my favorite set. Someone posted Pixilate + Misty Terrain + Mimicry, which you definitely could use to further support Kommo-o, giving it STAB 168 BP Boombursts.Kommo-o @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales / Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon / Focus Blast
- Clangorous Soul
Hawlucha @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reversal
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Endure
The Link
Tell me what to improve
It basically be about scappy so boomburst hits ghost and all the power boosting abilities
Sorry but I really fail to see how this helps the meta at all. People are crying and crying and crying about doing something about Steel Spam, Unaware, and partially contrary, and they just keep avoiding the ban.
Sure Sand rush is not bad, but it's not like steel spam NEEDS sand rush, there's a milion variants.
Honestly this just makes the meta less attractive by a lot.
This ban has actually helped me against FurScales.
I can free up a slot on my offensive E-Terrain Team for a Guts Users.
Before, you would just get crushed by extremely fast Swift Swimmers, forcing you to use Dragapult or Zeraora.
Pincurchin @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Memento
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Zap Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
Dracozolt @ Flame Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
Tsareena (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Play Rough
- High Jump Kick
- Rapid Spin
Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Cross Chop
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Obstruct
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Memento
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Zap Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
Dracozolt @ Flame Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
Tsareena (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Play Rough
- High Jump Kick
- Rapid Spin
Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Cross Chop
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Obstruct
Just what we needed, make defense even less viable.
Really, the meta managed to become even more hyper offense oriented than it was, which is ironic given the intent was to make it less HO by banning weather.
Every team can stop caring about speed control, only shitty surgeterrain teams still have the high speed or the unburden stuff, which is arguably even worse. Justg invest every slot in nothing but HO abilities that annihilate any type of defensive mon.
fun.
My guy items exist, scarf dracofish is still a viable option, speed still exists as it always will
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1092851311
Friendly reminder that there have been no bans regarding Steel spam.
Friendly reminder that there have been no bans regarding Steel spam.
Literally this.
Serene grace? Nope!
Steely spirit? Nope!
Tinted Lens? Nope!
I'd argue steel spam is STRONGER now because you don't need sand stream ttar anymore. You can put that unmissable speed control into even MORE offensive abilities. Wooooo!
I now support the steel spam ban
Dosen't mean I won't use it myself though.
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I totally see where everyone is coming from! I don't really wanna ban furscales and tbh reading through the posts, I think the problem is Unaware now. When combined with furscales, it's extremely difficult to beat with HO (maybe except Steelworker teams but without set up, it can be difficult especially when people take stall to a whole new level in SP).
All I'm saying is that there are 308 abilities to chose from and I'd say we use around 20 of them in the meta at the moment (bovs there are exceptions). Granted out of those 308, half of them may be pointless/noncompetitive, but there are so many good abilities that are never/rarely used because of things like Unaware or FurScales or Weather.
I don't think banning everything will help at all, but I just want to explore new stategies and it's difficult when you're met with only 3 types of powerful teams.
:)
EDIT: I also highly recommend preventing abilities to be shared like Sand RushSS/SR instead of banning weather abilities as the main problems with those teams is insane speed control.
All I'm saying is that there are 308 abilities to chose from and I'd say we use around 20 of them in the meta at the moment (bovs there are exceptions). Granted out of those 308, half of them may be pointless/noncompetitive, but there are so many good abilities that are never/rarely used because of things like Unaware or FurScales or Weather.
I don't think banning everything will help at all, but I just want to explore new stategies and it's difficult when you're met with only 3 types of powerful teams.
:)
EDIT: I also highly recommend preventing abilities to be shared like Sand RushSS/SR instead of banning weather abilities as the main problems with those teams is insane speed control.
If I could like your post multiple times, I would for this edit.
I think the meta would be a lot better if some abilities were restricted to being on their native user.
Obvious have something like Neutralizing Gas be banned, but other most abilities would be fine just on their native user.
Edit:
Also this, but replace Fluffy with Fur Coat, since Fur Coat is a direct upgrade to Fluffy in every way.
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Hello, in light of the weather ban and recent steely argument, I am back to ask that fluffy be looked at. This one is pretty straightforward so I will not rant like normally. It is my observation that the stacking of fur coat+fluffy generates an uncompetitive auto-win match up versus any physically based team. This stems from doubling the already doubled defenses of primarily stall teams, making already bulky mons essentially unkillable without a special move. There is no backdraw to adding fluffy to a core based around furscales either, as many good stall team carries flash fire regardless of having fluffy or not. The removal of strong special moves boosted by weather is what pushes this over the edge for me, and now I consider stall to be broken.
I do not believe the issue is unaware as many have said, as you can still easily run through a furscales team with the right combination of abilities. If anything, unaware is healthy imo since it prevents boost spam and instead redirects players to a more ability stack solution. Refer to my earlier posts for many replays of offensive teams easily taking out 5 or 6 of my unaware stall mons.
Here is a replay of an adamant, banded, tinted lens, steelworker, steely spirit, adaptability excadrill failing to 4hko into a fur fluff corviknight:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1092859388
Thank you to my buddy aaoeuid who helped me with this replay, and also topped both my accounts off the ladder in a day using this
I do not believe the issue is unaware as many have said, as you can still easily run through a furscales team with the right combination of abilities. If anything, unaware is healthy imo since it prevents boost spam and instead redirects players to a more ability stack solution. Refer to my earlier posts for many replays of offensive teams easily taking out 5 or 6 of my unaware stall mons.
Here is a replay of an adamant, banded, tinted lens, steelworker, steely spirit, adaptability excadrill failing to 4hko into a fur fluff corviknight:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1092859388
Thank you to my buddy aaoeuid who helped me with this replay, and also topped both my accounts off the ladder in a day using this
I disagree. Fluffy is a better ban than Fur coat.
It's the combination of them that's dumb, and banning Fur coat is overkill to defensive teams.
I feel way worse about steel spam now that I faced the guy in Smajet video with almost the same exact team, granted I didn't sweep the guy but he still got beat by the same team he had been beaten by before
Same Guy Dies again
Same guy who died before
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So we should ban an objectively worse ability to protect Stall?
Even when it wouldn't change that much, given that there aren't that many Non-Contact Physical moves?
Interesting take.
You @'ed the wrong person.
Yes. There is no reason to ban a good ability if it's exclusively the synergy with another ability that makes it broken
Sorry for not addressing it sooner but with the recent changes to the metagame, this is immediately needed. Quickbanning both Steely Spirit and Tinted Lens.
The fluffy over fur stance is not to protect stall, it is actually to provide more options. Persian is a much better mon and easily fits on bulky balance teams with 1 slot. In fact, stall teams will barely be affected by fur coat banned over fluffy, it will be more defensive teams that do not have an extra slot for the fire resistance that will suffer.
Welp, rip SteelSpam
I've been using this team against SteelSpam (and other physical offensive) teams.
Regular FurScales stall struggled to keep all their members healthy and are vulnerable to flinch, but this team doesn't care about that and just sits back as the opponent's Pokemon KO themselves.
Now maybe I can go back to my fun gimmick teams from a few days ago
I've been using this team against SteelSpam (and other physical offensive) teams.
Regular FurScales stall struggled to keep all their members healthy and are vulnerable to flinch, but this team doesn't care about that and just sits back as the opponent's Pokemon KO themselves.
Now maybe I can go back to my fun gimmick teams from a few days ago