SP Shared Power

I need explanations please, I use this team:

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Accelerock
- Trailblaze
- Swords Dance

Perrserker @ Choice Band
Ability: Steely Spirit
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Close Combat

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Dual Wingbeat

Quaquaval @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- Flip Turn

Palafin-Hero @ Leftovers
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up

Rillaboom @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Fake Out
- U-turn

Even at +4 my Szizor mit BP or Palafin with Jet Punch after Technician, Tough Claws, Steely Spirit etc. do nealy no damage, even when its not resisted. The boosts from other abilities dont get shown from showdown. For example Jetpunch is always 60 BP, even if Scizor and Lycanrock have been in before.

What do I wrong?

When I use Fluffy with a mon, the def boost is never shown. But opponements with fluffy are imossible to kill withour´t +6. strange

And my Quag has Moxie, but even when it was in and i kill with another mon i wont get the +1.

When my math it correct after every activated ability bullet punch shoud be: 40 * 1,5 (technician) * 1,5 (steely spirit) * 1,3 (touh claws). But its only always 60 BP.
 
Last edited:
HendrikRegiert said:
I need explanations please, I use this team:

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Accelerock
- Trailblaze
- Swords Dance

Perrserker @ Choice Band
Ability: Steely Spirit
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Close Combat

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Dual Wingbeat

Quaquaval @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- Flip Turn

Palafin-Hero @ Leftovers
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up

Rillaboom @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Fake Out
- U-turn

Even at +4 my Szizor mit BP or Palafin with Jet Punch after Technician, Tough Claws, Steely Spirit etc. do nealy no damage, even when its not resisted. The boosts from other abilities dont get shown from showdown. For example Jetpunch is always 60 BP, even if Scizor and Lycanrock have been in before.

What do I wrong?

When I use Fluffy with a mon, the def boost is never shown. But opponements with fluffy are imossible to kill withour´t +6. strange

And my Quag has Moxie, but even when it was in and i kill with another mon i wont get the +1.

When my math it correct after every activated ability bullet punch shoud be: 40 * 1,5 (technician) * 1,5 (steely spirit) * 1,3 (touh claws). But its only always 60 BP.
Click to expand...
Tooltips don’t show the extra abilities, showdown just isn’t capable of doing that, and remember that you need to send out your Pokemon for its ability to share.
Do damage calculations to see if the boosts are being applied, and remember to post replays for us to see what is going on.
 
Soo I made a stall team
Houndstone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Poltergeist
- Body Press
- Will-O-Wisp

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Stun Spore
- Leech Seed
- Rest

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Hex
- Thunder Wave
 
BoringHumour said:
Soo I made a stall team
Houndstone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Poltergeist
- Body Press
- Will-O-Wisp

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Stun Spore
- Leech Seed
- Rest

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Hex
- Thunder Wave
Click to expand...
This team checks a lot of the boxes that stall needs to check. It's funny, the structure is really similar to the Bobsican stall sample, but I think that's the consequence of building stall right now. I built a stall for the Quark Drive suspect and it turned out the same way. You need to start with Houndstone for Fluffy because it's the best defensive tool in the tier. Then, Heatran is necessary to cover the Fire weakness. From there, Giratina is a natural choice for the synergy with Heatran. Plus, Levitate means that hazards aren't a big deal, which is huge for stall. Now you're running three mons without recovery on your stall team, uh oh, so Chansey/Blissey slots in to enable everyone else to use Rest. Then you play test a little, find out that Fluffy doesn't quite cover the physical matchups, and add Wo-Chien. That's 5/6 slots that very naturally fill themselves.

If you want to improve the team, set the Tera types and maybe make some move changes. Tera is extremely important for stall. The roster of defensive abilities is pretty short, so flipping types to resist an attack is often the only way to tank the big hitters like Caly-I. When in doubt, Tera Steel. Steel is especially good here because of Levitate and Flash Fire. You probably don't need Stealth Rocks on both Ting-Lu and Heatran. I would swap Rocks out on Heatran for Magma Storm or Iron Defense. The team feels a little short on win conditions to me. Alternatively, I'd consider moving away from mono-Earthquake Ting-Lu. It feels bad to get Ting-Lu in on something it should beat only to lose because Ting-Lu can't touch their ground immunity. Maybe Heatran could keep Rocks, and Ting-Lu could run Ruination + Throat Chop. I've been enjoying Throat Chop recently because there are no Dark-immune pokemon. Ruination can pump out damage, but it needs another move to deal the finishing blow.
 
Not really sure why Dozo was banned in the first place - to me it seems like a very weak mon, especially given the current state of the meta (Bolt, Spa teams being overall better, E-terrain nullifying Rest). It seems like a healthy addition to the current metagame and a better (healthier) user of Unaware than Clefable. Granted, I wasn't around when it was banned initially so I don't know why it was banned per so, although I would imagine it has something to do with bulk up/rest, which again are both relatively easily shut down by any self-respecting QD team.
 
excitedly ava said:
Not really sure why Dozo was banned in the first place - to me it seems like a very weak mon, especially given the current state of the meta (Bolt, Spa teams being overall better, E-terrain nullifying Rest). It seems like a healthy addition to the current metagame and a better (healthier) user of Unaware than Clefable. Granted, I wasn't around when it was banned initially so I don't know why it was banned per so, although I would imagine it has something to do with bulk up/rest, which again are both relatively easily shut down by any self-respecting QD team.
Click to expand...
It was banned because it walled every single prominent physical attacker with proper ability buffs.
Special teams are still not better than physical teams on average.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
It was banned because it walled every single prominent physical attacker with proper ability buffs.
Special teams are still not better than physical teams on average.
Click to expand...
They might not be better on average but they are still a threat to prepare for when building a team.

I imagine Dozo/Ting-Lu/volt absorb/sap sipper would still cause problems, but again, it lacks reliable recovery besides rest which is shut down by QD. Again, I believe it might be a healthy addition to the meta to help bridge the power gap between physical and special oriented teams.

There is a universe where this isn't the case and it is exactly the same as what you're describing, however I'd like to be optimistic about this since the general consensus I've noticed about the meta is that physical teams are far stronger than special teams. A viable physical wall might just be what the format needs.
 
Got some good sets here that are off the beaten path. These sets aren't supposed to be a team together, but I will post a team at the end that incorporates two of them.

:ting-lu:
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rest
- Throat Chop
- Mean Look
- Spite

Pretty straightforward set, but it plays quite differently than most Ting-Lu. Ting-Lu usually lays hazards, shuffles with Whirlwind, and deals a surprising amount of damage with Ruination. The effect of that kind of set is to thrive in the mid game and put the kibosh on offensive threats there. It's kind of shocking how good a Ruination/Stealth Rocks/Whirlwind/Throat Chop (or Earthquake) set is at grabbing back momentum when it looks like it should be a total sink. Where that kind of set is weakest, though, is against bulky teams. These teams don't mind switching a lot and have methods for dealing with hazards, be that Levitate, boots, or out-healing hazards with Cheek Pouch in the case of Harvest teams. This Ting-Lu set flips the usual matchups and takes on a role as a stallbreaker. The trapping lets Ting-Lu pretty consistently take out one mon per game, freeing the rest of the team to forego preparation for the stall matchup. Pair with something like Zamazenta that kills offense but struggles against stall.

:houndstone:
Houndstone
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Poltergeist
- Roar
- Rest

The moves don't really matter here. What matters is that itemless Houndstone can block Poltergeist, which is one of the better ways of breaking past Fluffy. This set in particular is kind of cheeky and walls physical Giratina with Tera Fairy. The point isn't to counter all Ghosts but to add a couple extra matchups to the positive side. As an aside, I have been liking Wo-Chien a lot recently, and I think Houndstone might be slipping. Caly-I is the premier offensive threat right now largely because it does not care about Houndstone. Regardless, an itemless set helps take on stuff like Ceruledge or Golurk, especially since no one expects itemless and you should get a free turn to bonk them with your own Poltergeist. Houndstone also does better against Crawdaunt this way since Knock Off is weakened. Pair with something like Rillaboom that struggles against Ghosts, or with stuff that hates Knock Off like Porygon-Z and Chansey.

:archaludon:
Archaludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Electro Shot
- Flash Cannon

Tera Steel is the interesting part here. It looks like I forgot to change the default, but the real story is that dropping the Dragon typing lets Archaludon beat Calyrex-Ice and Baxcalibur, both of which are premier threats currently. When I start teambuilding, my first question is, "How will I handle Caly-I?", and this set is often the answer. Raw Electro Shot is a little gross, but I like this set's ability to stay on the field and boost through anything fat that can't break the +6 Defense. Iron Defense is key here to cover Glacial Lance sets and patch up the passivity of rainless Electro Shot. Otherwise, opponents will just set up without hitting you. Losing Tera Fairy does hurt against Fighting mons that you want your physical wall to beat, like Lilligant-H. This set is the sort of offense-killer that I might pair with the above Ting-Lu set.

:trevenant:
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Horn Leech
- Poltergeist
- Toxic

This is the Trevenant set that I think everyone should be running. Be honest: SpD Trevenant hasn't tanked a single move since Kyogre left the tier. The EVs are much better spent in speed, allowing an extra Curse or Toxic. The speed here creeps Crawdaunt and allows a OHKO with Horn Leech. Crawdaunt is a key matchup since your opponent will bring it in every time, wishing to Knock the berry ASAP. The speed also place Trevenant above Caly-I, which is always valuable for a berry team that will be strapped for ways to beat the horse. I like Toxic better than Leech Seed but could see the case either way. No pairing suggestion beyond usual berry stuff.

:heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Earth Power

This actually isn't a set I like. It's a set that I quite dislike but still see frequently. Historically in OU, Heatran is a fantastic stall breaker with Magma Storm + Taunt, and Earth Power rounds out some good coverage. In this meta, though, nearly every stall team will have Heatran and Giratina, including the stall sample. Those abilities leave us with a stallbreaker that can't actually deal any damage to stall. The trapping and breaking is good for anything that doesn't have Heatran, but realistically, most teams are offensive in this tier, and you are not going to face a bulky team that lacks a way to mitigate this Heatran set. Electropsychosis was running a really cool stall that didn't use Fluffy + Heatran, but even that team had Skeledirge and Giratina, so Heatran was still ineffective.

Here's what I consider to be a good set:
:heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Body Press

Magma Storm is just too good to pass up, but the other moves create a defensive, reactive presence that can probably hit harder than whatever is hitting it. Pair with Rillaboom, Groudon, or anything else that appreciates a check to Scizor and Calyrex-Ice.


------------------------------

Here's a team that uses a few of these sets. It's another good-not-great team, but I ran a 25 game test and it is possible to get a 75% GXE, so it's at least suspect-test quality. The idea is to protect bulky Volcarona and sweep with Bug Buzz, which is fun because there are no Bug immunities.
https://pokepast.es/2ca61d9a2104dbf9
 
Survey is over, we didnt get many answers but thats fine, now lets check them out:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MKVI0kaM5HV9PlvqcTiZXl2bI4ORh-NLnw7BhAmeYxM/viewanalytics

Not gonna go in detail as it was mostly a repeat of the last one and doesn't look like the sentiments around most stuff has changed, execept for one Pokémon:
:sv/dondozo:
Dondozo will be freed, it got some support in the survey and meta has changed a lot since its ban, now that Ice Scales is restricted it should be a lot easier to break, but we will pay close attention to it to make sure Stall and Bulky offense doesn't become too good after the change.
 
As One's implementation updated to accurately share the Unnerve half of the ability. That's old news by now, but I have been thinking since then about Unnerve and Berry teams. I am dumping my thoughts here to help organize them.

Unnerve has quirks that it seems a lot of people don't understand, probably because they don't come up in normal play. In standard formats, no one runs multiple Unnerve mons, so the effects are simple: an Unnerve mon prevents berry eating, and when the next mon comes in, berries are edible again. Here, where everything has Unnerve, the nuances matter. Unnerve loses its effect when the Unnerve Pokemon leaves the field, either by switching or after a KO. So even if you swap from one Unnerve mon to another, your opponent has a window to eat the berry, and likewise if an Unnerve mon faints.

Those small windows are now the only times to eat berries against Calyrex-Ice. I think that the traditional Berry teams with five or six Berry-based abilities are dead. RIP, Ripen. Those teams can still win individual games, but they place a hard cap on your Elo. Calyrex-Ice was the second-most used Pokemon in June, so 16% of games are pretty much a loss on preview. At high Elo, a win gains like four points, and a loss drops by 30, so teams can't climb with that much matchup variability.

Berry teams will need to change to overcome the new matchup landscape. Those old Berry teams had advantages over regular teams:
1. Free healing for walls - Fat stuff can work toward 4HKOs as long as the opponent can't 2HKO
2. Free healing for offensive mons - Prevents revenge killing
3. Free boosts - Can set up while still attacking, preserving momentum
4. Infinite switching - Berries that out-heal hazards allow for infinite switching, which is big for the stall matchup

Of those four, I think that 1 and 3 are no longer applicable for a serious team, and 2 is on life support. Offensive stuff can still heal, but only after a KO, which is a much more limited case than the old way of healing up while boosting. Infinite switching does get shut down by Calyrex still, but Caly is never on stall, which is where the switching matters. Corviknight is the bigger threat on stall, but nothing has changed there.

A berry team that persists against this Calyrex-Ice meta can still succeed by doing the following:
1. Claim kills reliably
2. Force switches
3. Continue infinite switching
4. Heal or boost in non-berry ways against Calyrex teams

Those points indicate a more active team than the old, fat teams that look something like Trevenant / Greedent / Maushold / Appletun / Muk / Groudon. You can't give up three free turns in a row as Trevenant clicks Protect -> Sub - Protect. I think that the points also necessitate a lower number of Berry-focused abilities on a team, maybe down to two or three. The rest of the team needs to be strong and standard enough to take kills or force switches without using their berries. To me, infinite switching is the new selling point of berry teams. Such a strong tool against stall is hard to find elsewhere in a way that doesn't compromise matchups against other styles. Hazard neutrality also allows for defensive cores that hold up well against volt turn teams. Levitate is pretty important now, in my eyes, because it lets you get away with hazard neutrality for anything with a Sitrus Berry, and you don't need to run Cheek Pouch. Giratina is much better than Cheek Pouch Maushold, so that's a good trade. For point four, Dondozo is such a blessing for berry teams since it naturally has a good matchup against Calyrex, Baxcalibur, Scizor, Crawdaunt... basically anything that you might see with Calyrex lol.

With all this in mind, I built a couple teams. The first one is really good, and I want to nominate it as a sample team. The second is okay, more fun than anything, but it also puts the above principles into practice.

:zamazenta: - :trevenant: - :giratina-origin: - :dondozo: - :gastrodon: - :archaludon: <- nomming this one KaenSoul
This team is focused on giving free healing to our offense killers while winning the stall matchup through infinite switches. Zamazenta, Dondozo, and Archaludon are a hugely bulky physical core, while Levitate + Harvest + Sticky Hold means that we can switch them in forever. Special offense matchups are covered through the Tera types, particularly on Giratina and Zamazenta. Against Calyrex, these mons can force kills and proc berries. Rest is on everything mostly as a way to get rid of status. 80 Atk on Zamazenta results in a 50% chance to OHKO 0HP Basculegion-F after Stealth Rocks. Trevenant and Giratina speed creep Crawdaunt.

This team plays smoothly, requires very few hard reads, and does not have a lot of bad matchups. The number of setup mons here makes the team play much quicker and more actively than stall, even though most of our mons are defensive. The worst matchup is Unnerve Corviknight stall. It was satisfying to build this team, since I've been wanting to build something bulky that does not use Houndstone or Wo-Chien.

I climbed to number 1 with this. Not saying that to brag, just supporting the claim that it's a good team.

:carbink: - :maushold: - :trevenant: - :gastrodon: - :archaludon: - :tyranitar:
The idea here is to get kills with Endeavor on Carbink. After a KO, Carbink can heal up against Unnerve. Anything with multi-hit moves will trigger Stamina on a switch to Archaludon. This team is definitely cheese. You can get a positive W/L but don't expect to climb the ladder past the 1300s. Carbink is level 2 because that's the highest you can go while fully healing with an Oran Berry.

I am interested to hear any other thoughts on berry teams.
 
You can still use Stuff Cheeks to bypass Unnerve, so Swalot (Sticky Hold) and Greedent (Cheek Pouch) usage will likely increase in berry teams. Cud Chew also ignores Unnerve if a berry has already been eaten.
 
Hello I have been playing the meta game for awhile now and had some thoughts on some of the ban list. I want to make the argument that 3 pokemon should be removed from the list.

1. Landorus-Incarnate
I honestly think this should be unbanned entirely and suspect tested. I do not think it offer anything to crazy to the meta. I would be a good addition to bluster spatk teams. Sand is currently rarely used in the meta maybe it sheds some light on sand. 101 speed is honestly not enough in the tier to be a threat on its own with out significant help. Its atk is not crazy either with the likes of calyrex ice and groudon running around. Its also no priority so compete with those teams. What it will give the meta game is a 2nd good user of sheer force that has speed and the ability to set hazards.

2. Rayquaza
This one is more for making the ability air lock restricted. Espeed is already banned. It offers a great atk and spatk to any team and the ability to stop sun or rain. I think this would be another option for a team that wants unnerve and another weather to reset and gain tempo. I think rays base 95 speed will keep it from dominating the meta and with the likes of lycanroc accelerock and clayrex ice being present. Also no priority to deal with those teams. Most teams that run heavy water will have ice available. I think it would be outclassed by dragapult in the meta imo.

3. Kingambit
Supreme overlord just needs to be a banned ability. Once the ability is banned I think gambit can have a place in the game defiant is a decent ability. Dark types are very common in the meta with craw, ting, and wo chien resisting sucker punch. Its speed is only made up for with sucker punch and end games become less of a guessing game with supreme overlord gone. Psychic terrain also stops it or a Pokémon with priority. I honestly think it would be fairly low in usage if supreme overlord was banned.
 
Goldbanker27 said:
Hello I have been playing the meta game for awhile now and had some thoughts on some of the ban list. I want to make the argument that 3 pokemon should be removed from the list.

1. Landorus-Incarnate
I honestly think this should be unbanned entirely and suspect tested. I do not think it offer anything to crazy to the meta. I would be a good addition to bluster spatk teams. Sand is currently rarely used in the meta maybe it sheds some light on sand. 101 speed is honestly not enough in the tier to be a threat on its own with out significant help. Its atk is not crazy either with the likes of calyrex ice and groudon running around. Its also no priority so compete with those teams. What it will give the meta game is a 2nd good user of sheer force that has speed and the ability to set hazards.

2. Rayquaza
This one is more for making the ability air lock restricted. Espeed is already banned. It offers a great atk and spatk to any team and the ability to stop sun or rain. I think this would be another option for a team that wants unnerve and another weather to reset and gain tempo. I think rays base 95 speed will keep it from dominating the meta and with the likes of lycanroc accelerock and clayrex ice being present. Also no priority to deal with those teams. Most teams that run heavy water will have ice available. I think it would be outclassed by dragapult in the meta imo.

3. Kingambit
Supreme overlord just needs to be a banned ability. Once the ability is banned I think gambit can have a place in the game defiant is a decent ability. Dark types are very common in the meta with craw, ting, and wo chien resisting sucker punch. Its speed is only made up for with sucker punch and end games become less of a guessing game with supreme overlord gone. Psychic terrain also stops it or a Pokémon with priority. I honestly think it would be fairly low in usage if supreme overlord was banned.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly agree that Lando I should be let back into the OM but only if Quark Drive is restricted. Since Quark Drive was voted to remain free then there's no way in hell that gremlin is being allowed back.

Ray sounds like it could be funny on dragon spam or just an easy slot into teams that want to counter weather abusers like harvest and rain (when kyo was around)

I do get the kingambit sentiment, supreme overlord is an insanely good ability and banning it would be nice but I think banning a Pokémon's ability or move when it is the sole Pokémon to have it goes against smogon's balancing vision.
 
Raoul Sanchez said:
I do get the kingambit sentiment, supreme overlord is an insanely good ability and banning it would be nice but I think banning a Pokémon's ability or move when it is the sole Pokémon to have it goes against smogon's balancing vision.
Click to expand...

Can we restrict Supreme Overlord and suspect test it instead
 
Just a fun bit of mechanics research I got curious about; how it works when you combine -ate abilities (Pixilate and Galvanize here)

Replay evidence is here

It seemingly just flips a coin LMFAO

This was far from the most rigorous test and there could be more to this but as is, I'm content with this (somewhat) concrete answer.

Thanks to RobinLeft for testing this with me.
 
:clefable: :sv/clefable: :clefable:​
A new update, Clefable is now free!
Dondozo seems to have adapted well, so we are bringing back a Pokémon that got banned for similar reasons, the lack of Ice Scales should make it less effective as a wincon compared to when it was banned, it also can't share any useful ability, so it seems like the best Pokémon to try next.
 
I want to talk about the problem with the snow balling.
1. There is the cursed strat that came from hell it’s moxie,chilling neigh and as one (glastrier) plastered toghther and 3 other abilities. Here is my battle vs one :https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2180817968 as you see the strat is revenge killing and reaver sweeping the lead you to a trap that you think that you are in the winning position but you just fell in their trap this is very broken.
2. there is the guts strat with 5 more helping abilities here is my battle against this strat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2180829812?p2 I won only because of a speed tie if my opponent would put more evs or ivs to their perserker they would have won this strat is mega hyper offence.
This two strats are very common and the battle I have linked were the hardest (the former) and the easiest (the latter) if each strat

Solutions I would suggest to fix the meta with the strats I showed you earlier with on my mind: unrestrict/unban ice scales,fluffy/fur coat (we need more stall based teams in sp and this is the first step to this and if powers would be unresticted this would be a fun battle of hyper offence and stall and fluffy,fur coat,ice scales,well baked body would be very good in stall), ban/restrict all moxie variations (the core of the snowball),ban/restrict guts and toxic boost (if your last mon is a mon with poison heal you have a hyper stall mon which is a perfect combination of hyper offence and stall),ban the combination of the abilities no guard and hustle on the same team (hustle with no drawbacks is broken if it’s wasn’t gorilla tactics wouldn‘t have acted like a choice band and the item choice band wouldn’t exist because a item that would give you 0.5 boost to your attack that can be given to any pokemon would be the best item and the most broken one),restrict/ban adaptability and protean/libero (adaptability is a supportive ability to hyper offence and very good at it and mixing it with protean/libero is deadly) ,unrestricted huge power and pure power (make a bigger threat than snowballing and mega hyper offence),unban broken mons (any pokemon with supreme overlord of the banned kingmabit or any mon with two Spacial moxie would be more creative and the latter would be more balanced than trick room moxie but 3 stages up than trick room is way more can stop the fast horses and also any dark types),unban the two offence ruins (if we have the defensive ones why not the offensive ones?) I have so many ideas have to rebalance the meta because there are so may bans and restitutions we have less options and like you have seen only 3 options the snowball effect,mega hyper offence or a failed strat if we had in this meta less bans/restictions or the current two meta defining strats are banned/restricted we will have way more options this is my favourite om but it’s felt since forever now those are the only strats that are left.
I hope some change will happen and if someone who likes me sees that and has ideas please write them too here.

(P.S this isn’t bait who ever is wondering this some of the suggestions I wrote I made on purpose to be more ridiculous because the strats I wrote (snowball and mega hyper offence) also are this kind of ridiculous.)
 
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Minotaur08 said:
I want to talk about the problem with the snow balling.
1. There is the cursed strat that came from hell it’s moxie,chilling neigh and as one (glastrier) plastered toghther and 3 other abilities. Here is my battle vs one :https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2180817968 as you see the strat is revenge killing and reaver sweeping the lead you to a trap that you think that you are in the winning position but you just fell in their trap this is very broken.
2. there is the guts strat with 5 more helping abilities here is my battle against this strat https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2180829812?p2 I won only because of a speed tie if my opponent would put more evs or ivs to their perserker they would have won this strat is mega hyper offence.
This two strats are very common and the battle I have linked were the hardest (the former) and the easiest (the latter) if each strat
Click to expand...
1. You can easily counter this with priority moves, and in the game, your opponent misplayed by using Victory Dance instead of attacking Calyrex-Ice.
2. You used relatively slow Pokemon and Psychic Surge easily beats priority spam.
 
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