Pending Shiny Jirachi

[McMeghan]

Is there any reason why Jirachi is locked from being shiny in ADV/DPP/BW when it can be obtained as such through the Colosseum Bonus disc?

https://screenrant.com/pokemon-shiny-hunt-jirachi/
https://projectpokemon.org/home/files/file/1696-wishmkr-shiny-jirachi/

 

[Cynara]

Always wondered about this for a while, no reason to not allow shiny Jirachi imo. Is it because Shiny Jirachi are actually impossible to be competitively viable in Gen 3? all Wishmaker Jirachi shiny spreads have terrible IVs, so you apply this restriction to Jirachi specifically? then again a japanese source discovered it's actually Possible for Pokemon Channel Jirachi to be shiny too and some of these are near flawless. Since we tend to ignore IV spread restrictions on the sim for ADV / DPP, I see no reason to disallow Shiny Jirachi either.

 

[Diophantine]

Always wondered about this for a while, no reason to not allow shiny Jirachi imo. Os it because Shiny Jirachi are actually impossible to be competitively viable in Gen 3? all Wishmaker Jirachi shiny spreads have terrible IVs, so you apply this restriction to Jirachi specifically? then again a japanese source discovered it's actually Possible for Pokemon Channel Jirachi to be shiny too. Since we tend to ignore IV spread restrictions on the sim for ADV / DPP, I see no reason to disallow Shiny Jirachi either.

They don't allow it for GSC when making Pokemon shiny (they should though!)

 

[Cynara]

They don't allow it for GSC when making Pokemon shiny (they should though!)

GSC shininess is different, its tied directly to DVs which directly effects how they function competitively (i.e certain hidden powers), Idk how accurate they want sim things to be when it comes to aesthetics tho.

E: Shiny only mons are also important for competitive restrictions too ig. Like V-create Rayquaza can never be shiny, Shiny Genesect is always hasty etc. This is information players should know

 

[Marty]

Is there any reason why Jirachi is locked from being shiny in ADV/DPP/BW when it can be obtained as such through the Colosseum Bonus disc?

It's not locked; WISHMKR Jirachi has 65536 possible IV/Nature combos and only 9 of them are Shiny.

{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Bashful", ivs: {hp: 24, atk: 3, def: 30, spa: 12, spd: 16, spe: 11}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Careful", ivs: {hp: 10, atk: 0, def: 10, spa: 10, spd: 26, spe: 12}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Docile", ivs: {hp: 19, atk: 7, def: 10, spa: 19, spd: 10, spe: 16}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Hasty", ivs: {hp: 3, atk: 12, def: 12, spa: 7, spd: 11, spe: 9}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Jolly", ivs: {hp: 11, atk: 8, def: 6, spa: 14, spd: 5, spe: 20}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Lonely", ivs: {hp: 31, atk: 23, def: 26, spa: 29, spd: 18, spe: 5}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Naughty", ivs: {hp: 21, atk: 31, def: 31, spa: 18, spd: 24, spe: 19}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Serious", ivs: {hp: 29, atk: 10, def: 31, spa: 25, spd: 23, spe: 21}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},
{generation: 3, level: 5, shiny: true, nature: "Timid", ivs: {hp: 15, atk: 28, def: 29, spa: 3, spd: 0, spe: 7}, moves: ["wish", "confusion", "rest"], pokeball: "pokeball"},

then again a japanese source discovered it's actually Possible for Pokemon Channel Jirachi to be shiny too and some of these are near flawless. Since we tend to ignore IV spread restrictions on the sim for ADV / DPP, I see no reason to disallow Shiny Jirachi either.

It's not so much ignoring as it is "not implemented yet". As you mentioned in your next post, there are relevant competitive implications to all these restrictions, including the things specific to Gen 3 and 4 PID generation.

Five years ago when I added the WISHMKR spreads it was still thought to be impossible to get a Shiny Jirachi from Channel. It seems like this is the best possible combination, which I will add as an event source, but it's locked to Bashful so probably no one would use it anyway?

https://projectpokemon.org/home/for...-channel-jirachi/?tab=comments#comment-231832


Since Shiny Jirachi is in fact legal on the sim, if the suggestion then changes to "why are we doing this?", I don't know what to tell you. I think it would also be a hard sell in Policy Review to willfully ignore the legality of a Pokemon set.

 

[Zarel]

Since we tend to ignore IV spread restrictions on the sim for ADV / DPP, I see no reason to disallow Shiny Jirachi either.

I'm confused by this. Since when do we ignore IV spread restrictions?

 

[Anubis]

I'm confused by this. Since when do we ignore IV spread restrictions?

Gen 3-4 PIDIV is pretty much ignored by teambuilder, no? While most mons are breedable, this doesn't apply to mons like static legendaries... a familiar example is Lati@s with Timid 31/0/31/31/31/31. The reason I've always heard is usually along the lines of "It's too hard to get players to figure out what are actually legal spreads."

 

[Cynara]

I'm confused by this. Since when do we ignore IV spread restrictions?

I understand why this was misinterpreted, sorry.

I will keep this short because it only really effects ADV, DPP introduces a lot of wondercard events which resolve a lot of previous edge cases with being able to obtain flawless Pokemon. Anubis highlighted one case already with Latios.

Using the topic of Jirachi as an example. An Ideal perfect Jirachi simply cannot exist legitimately, especially if you include desirable natures on top of this. The reason I never considered bringing these topics to policy review or whatever in the past is because I feel from my point of view it would take way too much dev time for such a small benefit and I'm just grateful we have a simulator that is basically 99% true to how it would be playing on cart.

It's a complicated mess, as an example, here's a small list of the most "optimal" Jirachi that are as close to 5x31 or 6x31 IV for Jirachi natures I'd consider are used competitively and spreads that guarantee 31 Speed IV. These all in theory can be generated by Pokemon Channel gift Jirachi and some may be impossible to actually obtain. This list is rather exhaustive and doesn't even account for Hidden Power Type spreads (huge in ADV) which makes it even more messy and most importantly, the difference this would make on the simulator is very small. I don't think it's worth the dev time to implement this kinda stuff for all the Pokemon it needs to be implemented for, just for the sake of being 100% cart accurate.

RBY has another case with DV's and this has been PR'd before iirc, as certain Pokemon (wilds, not stationary) cannot actually have 15/15/15/15/15 across the board which does make a difference in competitive play, except this is not as crazy to implement as ADV/DPP IV + Nature restrictions.

Also anubis is right, it would be rather complicated for players to figure out what the optimal spreads are, unless they had sufficient knowledge or the teambuilder adjusted it for them.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Just want to clarify that, to the best of my knowledge, perfect DVs are obtainable in RBY on every pokemon via the mew glitch.

My position, which I think is supported by the rest of the council, is that glitch obtained pokemon are legitimate if they are not broken. And as a blanket rule we consider things like learning attacks not otherwise present in the pokemon's learnset or having levels over 100, etc. to be broken.

 

[Plague von Karma]

I'm not gonna comment much on this as it's far out of my element, but I have one question I'm interested in...

What's stopping the best legal IV/DV spreads from being implemented here? This seems like it would eliminate a lot of the queries regarding players not understanding the legality.