THE_IRON_...KENYAN?
Banned deucer.
Should we celebrate Columbus day? I think yes. You cant judge somebody by the standards of the past and he was a great man who did a lot.
What do you think?
What do you think?
idk dude have you ever spoken to a native american about it? oh wait there aren't that many around.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmi don't really care enough to change it. Does anybody really treat it as anything more than a day off and do some kind of ritual in rememberance of Christopher Columbus?
I actually have, and the ones I've spoken with are not pleased with columbus day or jackson being on the $20 bill.idk dude have you ever spoken to a native american about it? oh wait there aren't that many around.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yeah and columbus didn't kill 90% of the native populationI'm pretty sure exterminating 90% of the native population is not the minimum requirement for being a bad person.
"Saying Columbus is responsible for the 90% of natives dying is like saying that the sailors that came back to Italy with the Black Death were responsible for all the European deaths that came from it."I'm pretty sure exterminating 90% of the native population is not the minimum requirement for being a bad person.
For the third time, we cannot fault someone for unintentionally spreading disease, regardless of how much people died as a result. If you want to paint him as le evil white man imperialist than you should focus on the crimes he intentionally committed.I think people are underestimating the scale of what exactly transpired.
"Before Columbus, one researcher calculated, the Western Hemisphere held ninety to 112 million people. Another way of saying this is that in 1491 more people lived in the Americas than in Europe. "
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/03/1491/302445/
Please do your research before minimising the impact of what happened, or making spurious comparisons between man and a disease pathogen. If your argument rests upon ascertaining exactly how much percentage of the population he directly enslaved and genocided then you've already long fallen off a moral cliff.
Except it is clear that you don't have the foggiest about this line you're parroting. Columbus' expedition was bankrolled by the Monarchy of Spain with the express dictum of setting up colonies as bases in order to secure trade routes for spices and provide a foothold for the Spanish Empire to push ahead in the global colonial race vs the British. He was looking for India but ended up encountering the Americas (The West Indies named in memory of that fuckup as the first Frontier Columbus landed on) but that's a different story. This is already a textbook definition of the colonial enterprise, but unfortunately that's hardly the end of the story.For the third time, we cannot fault someone for unintentionally spreading disease, regardless of how much people died as a result. If you want to paint him as le evil white man imperialist than you should focus on the crimes he intentionally committed.
Now having demonstrably proven that your image of this guy as some harmless seafarer who never intentionally committed atrocities in the name of imperialism is but third rate fiction, I dare you to defend this guy's track record, let alone justify celebrating him. Because if you insist on doing so I won't be able to chalk it upto ignorance anymore. At that point this continued farce won't appear as anything other than a clear case of racism and denial. If that's indeed the case i wonder if you should be allowed to participate in a civil discussion on this forum, or any forum.literally on Columbus' fucking Wiki page said:By this time, accusations of tyranny and incompetence on the part of Columbus had also reached the Court. Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand responded by removing Columbus from power and replacing him with Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava. Bobadilla, who ruled as governor from 1500 until his death in a storm in 1502, had also been tasked by the Court with investigating the accusations of brutality made against Columbus. Arriving in Santo Domingo Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolomeo, and Diego. Bobadilla reported to Spain that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola. The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the national archive in the Spanish city of Simancas, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about the treatment of colonial subjects by Columbus and his brothers during his seven-year rule.[85]
According to the report, Columbus once punished a man found guilty of stealing corn by having his ears and nose cut off and then selling him into slavery. Testimony recorded in the report stated that Columbus congratulated his brother Bartolomeo on "defending the family" when the latter ordered a woman paraded naked through the streets and then had her tongue cut out for suggesting that Columbus was of lowly birth.[85] The document also describes how Columbus put down native unrest and revolt; he first ordered a brutal crackdown in which many natives were killed and then paraded their dismembered bodies through the streets in an attempt to discourage further rebellion.[86] "Columbus's government was characterised by a form of tyranny," Consuelo Varela, a Spanish historian who has seen the document, told journalists.[85] "Even those who loved him had to admit the atrocities that had taken place."[85]
What do you mean? We ought to judge him by the standards of the present?You cant judge somebody by the standards of the past
Because in my country, 12 October 1492 is the date we went from backward hillbillies to world superpower, and after ~350 years of going downhill, it's hard to turn our back on that sentiment.If nobody cares about actually celebrating this man, why not make it about someone who didn't enslave people he encountered while exploring?
Believe all victims. This is literally a part of an FBI report.lol cmon