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Side Metagame Sub-Forum

Badal

Badal

Shit
is a Contributor Alumnus
Side Metagames are a fun escape from the standard OU/UU/Ubers metagame that we're all used to. Several of these metagames that are enjoyable die out or are forced to make smaller free forums where they eventually die out due to lack of activity.

I would like to propose the idea for a Side Metagames sub-forum in Stark Mountain. This will allow metagames to have a more organized method of running them. They will also be able to get the activity they deserve. Several metagames such as Middle Cup are a lot of fun to play though, may die out due to lack of activity. This sub-forum will allow users to discuss these metagames at length. A few metagames that I am talking about are:
Middle Cup, 1v1, Doubles, Triples, Terrorist Cup, etc.

This sub-forum will also provide as a motivation for users to think of newer and maybe more fun metagames that take a break from the standard ones.
Many of these smaller metagames don't enjoy the grand scale of suspect testing and attention that standard metagames such as OU enjoy and have to settle for smaller threads that get lost amidst the activity in the forum. As mentioned above, this sub-forum will allow for growth of newer alternatives to the standard metagame and also as a place for these smaller metagames to grow and develop in a more organized and effective manner.
 
None of these metagames are big enough. The only two that have really broken out are CAP and Little Cup, and both have created a sizable userbase due to the hard work of the creators. It took years before Little Cup reached Smogon or CAP actually became well known. If any of these side metagames could reach considerable size, they would need firm leadership and a committed userbase.
 
Yes, and this userbase and leadership will only be developed when they are given enough attention and recognition, at the moment, they don't recieve it, this sub-forum hopes to help these metagames grow into considerably big ones
 
Just posting to say I agree with Badal. Its not like creating a subforum will be the end of the world.
 
However, it adds more places that people are unlikely to check and adds clutter to the main category. These side metagames are at most single threads for anything that doesn't already have its own forum (CAP / LC). The place for these threads is in the general discussion forums for the relevant generation and really, it should stay that way. There's no benefit, perceived or otherwise, to be had from adding a new forum for these few discussion threads.
 
Does this mean that smaller and not so well advertised metagames should be snubbed and not given an opportunity to grow? Since this sub-forum gives this opportunity to these metagames. If Little Cup had to go through a tough phase to get as big as it is now, doesn't mean that if resources are provided to other metagames, they have to go through the same trouble.
 
Little Cup had its own individual forum for a few years iirc before it was recognized. Hell, NU has its own forum and isn't even recognized and its a lot closer to a "metagame" than (BAN ME PLEASE) Cup or 1v1.

Probably best to just make a "megathread" for it in UT for now.
 
UT is just absolutely clustered and is flooded. I wonder when the Stark sub-forums will be moved there. Since metagames such as 1v1, etc are small, they along with other metagames such as Middle Cup and Doubles, should be allowed a sub-forum, to make something considerable
 
Not saying I agree or disagree with this but it sounds like a very good idea. UT is total crap right now with everything mixed up and such. It needs some subforums.
 
While we're at this, I think we need a VGC tag or a subforum under UT for VGC, I don't think new VGCers are very prone to look under a Gen 4 forum for Gen 5 info...


I think this is a great idea, but that's partially because I like doubles and triples.
 
although I think it is a great idea these meta-games are likely to die out anyways because if it is not OU no one usually plays That is a sad Fact that people who want to try different meta-games go through besides I think it takes away much needed attention for metagames such as Littlecup and ubers.
 
Fooly Cooly said:
although I think it is a great idea these meta-games are likely to die out anyways because if it is not OU no one usually plays That is a sad Fact that people who want to try different meta-games go through besides I think it takes away much needed attention for metagames such as Littlecup and ubers.
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No.1: Not necessarily. Little Cup started out much the same way as this, not recognized at all.

And at the moment in Gen 5, we only actually have 2 metagames we're actively trying to balance: OU and Little Cup. Ubers actually doesn't require any balancing, its just a metagame people play for fun.

No.2: Doug made a brilliant post in PR, detailing WHY dilution isn't likely by embracing more metagames. In its very first month, PL had over a million battles. With so many battles, OU won't mind giving a few battles to other metagames. We really need to get out of the idea of one single "THE metagame". This approach led us to use VGC rules for doubles this generation(even before rules were announced), as apparently "nobody would play any other form of doubles", when in actuality, the VGC rules are so restrictive, that less restrictive rules for our doubles metagame would probably increase the playerbase even more.
 
I think the main opposition to this idea is not because its a bad one; but rather, there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming reason to do it. I don't actually know anyone who plays doubles or triples right now, so I don't see a reason for cluttering the forum with so many meta-game sub forums that I would anticipate seeing less activity than Ruins of Alph.
 
I don't think anybody wants a forum for each individual metagame, rather, the idea is to create one single forum, where each of these metagames have one thread, and if they grow popular enough, a respectable member of the community who plays that metagame is given the rights to run it.

Rephrasing the idea to be this lets you create one single forum, which avoids cluttering.
 
Destiny Warrior said:
I don't think anybody wants a forum for each individual metagame, rather, the idea is to create one single forum, where each of these metagames have one thread, and if they grow popular enough, a respectable member of the community who plays that metagame is given the rights to run it.

Rephrasing the idea to be this lets you create one single forum, which avoids cluttering.
Click to expand...
I like this idea. This gives many small metagames the chance to thrive and grow without being subject to the ridiculous work needed to bring Little Cup up.
 
Engineer Pikachu said:
I like this idea. This gives many small metagames the chance to thrive and grow without being subject to the ridiculous work needed to bring Little Cup up.
Click to expand...
That's EXACTLY the wrong viewpoint. The only reason why Little Cup grew is because ridiculous work was done. If the creators of any of these metagames wanted to, they could start their own forum (like Little Cup and NU). Both of these metagames are now fairly successful. We don't even have any sub-forums in UT right now, and creating a prefix would create more useless clutter. Stark is even worse, as a) no one checks there and b) it's already very cluttered. Look at Stark Little Cup. It has had very little activity since Misdreavus was banned. We really don't need ANOTHER sub-forum that won't do anything and simply create clutter.

EDIT:

Destiny Warrior said:
No.1: Not necessarily. Little Cup started out much the same way as this, not recognized at all.

And at the moment in Gen 5, we only actually have 2 metagames we're actively trying to balance: OU and Little Cup. Ubers actually doesn't require any balancing, its just a metagame people play for fun.

No.2: Doug made a brilliant post in PR, detailing WHY dilution isn't likely by embracing more metagames. In its very first month, PL had over a million battles. With so many battles, OU won't mind giving a few battles to other metagames. We really need to get out of the idea of one single "THE metagame". This approach led us to use VGC rules for doubles this generation(even before rules were announced), as apparently "nobody would play any other form of doubles", when in actuality, the VGC rules are so restrictive, that less restrictive rules for our doubles metagame would probably increase the playerbase even more.
Click to expand...

"Ubers actually doesn't require any balancing, its just a metagame people play for fun."

Yes, Ubers is unbalanced, but it's not a metagame people play for fun, it's very serious.\

Also I hate to admit it, but Little Cup's userbase is ridiculously small compared to other metagames. I've gone for hours without getting a ladder match.

@ Part 2: Okay? What does switching battles have to do with creating a side-metagames sub-forum? People have already heard of metagames like Terrorist Cup. Many have played it. However, it's not something you could specialize in. VGC is played because it's an official tournament: the people that play VGC vastly outnumber all of the other side metagames combined. This is why we gave it it's own subforum. NU started off as a megathread, and later moved to its seperate forums where it thrived for quite some time. Again, you are free to make your own forums. That doesn't mean Smogon should delegate a whole subforum or prefix just to this huge gray area of side metagames. I could make the "Magikarp Cup" right now. Do we really need a subforum where half the threads are going to be deleted? How many semi-popular side metagames can you name? 2? 3? We really don't need a forum with two threads. It's going to fall by the wayside like Stark Little Cup did: most stuff is just on IRC. All in all, this is just a retarded idea that's going to make more clutter.
 
iss said:
That's EXACTLY the wrong viewpoint. The only reason why Little Cup grew is because ridiculous work was done. If the creators of any of these metagames wanted to, they could start their own forum (like Little Cup and NU). Both of these metagames are now fairly successful. We don't even have any sub-forums in UT right now, and creating a prefix would create more useless clutter. Stark is even worse, as a) no one checks there and b) it's already very cluttered. Look at Stark Little Cup. It has had very little activity since Misdreavus was banned. We really don't need ANOTHER sub-forum that won't do anything and simply create clutter.

EDIT:



"Ubers actually doesn't require any balancing, its just a metagame people play for fun."

Yes, Ubers is unbalanced, but it's not a metagame people play for fun, it's very serious.\

Also I hate to admit it, but Little Cup's userbase is ridiculously small compared to other metagames. I've gone for hours without getting a ladder match.

@ Part 2: Okay? What does switching battles have to do with creating a side-metagames sub-forum? People have already heard of metagames like Terrorist Cup. Many have played it. However, it's not something you could specialize in. VGC is played because it's an official tournament: the people that play VGC vastly outnumber all of the other side metagames combined. This is why we gave it it's own subforum. NU started off as a megathread, and later moved to its seperate forums where it thrived for quite some time. Again, you are free to make your own forums. That doesn't mean Smogon should delegate a whole subforum or prefix just to this huge gray area of side metagames. I could make the "Magikarp Cup" right now. Do we really need a subforum where half the threads are going to be deleted? How many semi-popular side metagames can you name? 2? 3? We really don't need a forum with two threads. It's going to fall by the wayside like Stark Little Cup did: most stuff is just on IRC. All in all, this is just a retarded idea that's going to make more clutter.
Click to expand...

I just want to say that it is a very bad idea to force users to go to other sites to play/develop a competitive metagame no matter what, considering this is supposed to be the premier competitive Pokemon site.
 
Sixonesix said:
I just want to say that it is a very bad idea to force users to go to other sites to play/develop a competitive metagame no matter what, considering this is supposed to be the premier competitive Pokemon site.
Click to expand...
i agree with this, if you want a new metagame to create their own forum thats basically the same thing as letting someone out in antartica with no clothes and telling them they will live.

*Edit* im not agree or disagreeing with the idea for a sub-forum but you can't really expect a metagame to grow on a inactive website
 
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