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Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II

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Any pointers on dealing with Espeon? Thing is so damn common.

Anything with Pursuit destroys Espeon not carrying Baton Pass. Notable users include Scizor and Tyranitar (the former cannot be touched by the cat while the latter can set up rocks by forcing Espeon out).

Interestingly, Forretress and Ferrothorn, two common hazard setters, both wall Espeon (HP Fighting is a turd) and hit it very hard with STAB Gyro Ball even with no investment, as most Espeon run max Speed and have crappy Defense. Tyranitar, as mentioned above, is another hazard setter that takes a dump on Espeon and gets up rocks easily with little prediction or risk involved. If Espeon threatens your team, consider choices such as these.

I hope to god you weren't talking about the LO All-Out-Attacker though. Priority or Pursuit are simple ways to take care of that crappy set.
 
Why is Swift swim Armaldo/Beartic banned with drizzle?
I thought drizzle plus swift swim was banned because of double stab any answers would be highly appreciated.
 
Why is Swift swim Armaldo/Beartic banned with drizzle?
I thought drizzle plus swift swim was banned because of double stab any answers would be highly appreciated.

Well to my knowledge, SS was banned with Drizzle because of the amount of dangerous sweepers that could take advantage of it. Kingdra is a prime example, because with SS he out speeds pretty much all of OU, and can fire off powerful Draco Meteors and STAB Hydro Pumps. Heck, he even runs a crazy powerful mixed set that could even threaten Blissey and Jellicent. Swords Dance Kabutops is another good example, because he can sweep a majority of the meta game with one Swords Dance. Under rain, there is little who can wall Kingdra and Kabutops, and it was pretty unhealthy to the meta game because of how much rain was centralizing the meta game.

Double STAB wasn't the main problem, but it definitely solidified the ban. Although Beartic and Armaldo wouldn't be incredibly dangerous in Rain, it would most likely be way to complex of a ban to ban only dual STAB Swift Swimmers, so instead banning Drizzle+SS for every Pokemon made it a lot easier and fair.
 
Well to my knowledge, SS was banned with Drizzle because of the amount of dangerous sweepers that could take advantage of it. Kingdra is a prime example, because with SS he out speeds pretty much all of OU, and can fire off powerful Draco Meteors and STAB Hydro Pumps. Heck, he even runs a crazy powerful mixed set that could even threaten Blissey and Jellicent. Swords Dance Kabutops is another good example, because he can sweep a majority of the meta game with one Swords Dance. Under rain, there is little who can wall Kingdra and Kabutops, and it was pretty unhealthy to the meta game because of how much rain was centralizing the meta game.

Double STAB wasn't the main problem, but it definitely solidified the ban. Although Beartic and Armaldo wouldn't be incredibly dangerous in Rain, it would most likely be way to complex of a ban to ban only dual STAB Swift Swimmers, so instead banning Drizzle+SS for every Pokemon made it a lot easier and fair.

Well don't you think its kind of sad that Beartic and Armaldo are not allowed?

it is kind of obvious that the dev's could change the swift swim ability exclusively for Beartic and Armaldo, Thus avoid the "Complexity"
 
Well don't you think its kind of sad that Beartic and Armaldo are not allowed?

it is kind of obvious that the dev's could change the swift swim ability exclusively for Beartic and Armaldo, Thus avoid the "Complexity"

Yea I guess, but Beartic and Armaldo wouldn't make too much of an impact in OU anyway. Ice is a terrible defensive typing, and he is very vulnerable to priority. Armaldo is in the same boat, and on top of that his typing leaves him open to being easily revenged killed by a decent amount of common threats. But anyways, you pretty much answered your own question. They wanted to avoid complexity.
 
Well don't you think its kind of sad that Beartic and Armaldo are not allowed?

it is kind of obvious that the dev's could change the swift swim ability exclusively for Beartic and Armaldo, Thus avoid the "Complexity"
It's not a matter of programming complexity, but rules complexity, and there's no questioning that "Drizzle+SS, except for Beartic and Armaldo" is more complex than "Drizzle+SS." Same reason we don't just ban Speed Boost Blaziken, for instance.
 
lati@s and their various sets fill some very different roles. generally latios is an offensive pokemon, latias is either a bulky special check or a mixed-role pivoty mon. which set you should use depends as much on your team as on the way you play. for example i'd probably screw up with LO latias in sand (forget to recover even once and you might be outright screwed)

CM latias - arguably the only one to run right now is subCM. good bulky set that doesn't get worn down as quickly as others but don't expect to do much damage outright with it for most of the game. it exerts relatively little offensive pressure but it's an efficient late game sweeper (substitute lets it set up on a lot of shit).

LO latias - the spread is usually maximum speed (don't run slow latias. don't do it.) with a mixture of satk and HP. it appears a lot in sand as a weather check that can pack a punch when it's needed. reduced bulk + life orb means you will not be able to check keldeo/thundurus-T repeatedly - the damage adds up - but life orb draco meteors mean you definitely aren't a sitting duck in the meantime

scarf/specs latias - i consider these very niche sets that generally don't fit on most teams. healing wish scarf latias is an interesting thing fwiw



as for breloom, it's just that bulk up has no place in this metagame. it was a holdover from BW1, when scarf lando-I/excadrill volt-turn in sand was a top tier team. suffice to say the best "bulky" breloom is poison heal subpunch - idk if this actually works, but it's definitely better than bulk up and i've heard a few good things about it. otherwise just get a techniloom and wreck stuff

Kk thanks... Im just about done with the planning :)

Two more questions:

Is it better to use sd techniloom or plain old lo/cb techniloom?

And who has better synergy alongside scarf jirachi, sdef heatran plus gastro, def skarm, and techniloom: latios or latias?
 
Is baton pass/smash pass still viable
Yes, it is still viable, but is increasingly difficult to pull of. Quick Pass seems to be easier than full pass. Other than that, a lot of pokemon are so powerful they will just break through your chain. Just shell smash (cloyster) seems to be an easier option, due to its immense power after smash. (beware of priority)

Is it better to use sd techniloom or plain old lo/cb techniloom?
Loom loves being able to switch moves. That said, swords dance and life orb are more used than cb, at least what I see. It is key for swords dance to set up and then sweep, as it is too frail to set up twice (unless on predicted switches).

And who has better synergy alongside scarf jirachi, sdef heatran plus gastro, def skarm, and techniloom: latios or latias?
Both synergize quite well, so it is up to your playstyle. Most of your team is defensive, and the lati's resist ALL of your teams weaknesses. If you find yourself switching a lot, due to your teams defensive nature, I would go with latias. Latios is better if you feel you are in need of something more offensive.
 
Loom loves being able to switch moves. That said, swords dance and life orb are more used than cb, at least what I see. It is key for swords dance to set up and then sweep, as it is too frail to set up twice (unless on predicted switches).

Both synergize quite well, so it is up to your playstyle. Most of your team is defensive, and the lati's resist ALL of your teams weaknesses. If you find yourself switching a lot, due to your teams defensive nature, I would go with latias. Latios is better if you feel you are in need of something more offensive.

Thanks for the info :) is bulky sd techniloom viable? But anyway, which set is the best atm?

As for the dragons, i dont have anything to really ask anymore other than: which latios set is better, lo or specs?

Edit: also, can hydreigon take the role of lati@s as an absorber and reliably fast destroyer?
 
I have a few questions about the Genies.

Are there any other speed boosting sweepers for the rain other than agility Thundy T?

Almost all Life orb tornadous T has the same 3 moves with hurricane, u turn, and focus blast/ superpower. I have seen sleep talk, tailwind, taunt, rain dance, and once I saw Hp ground for the fourth and final move. I want to know the best one for a team that has trouble with Breloom and sun teams. I have experimented with them and saw that with my playing style, there was no superior option. In your guy's opinions, which one is the best.
 
I have a few questions about the Genies.

Are there any other speed boosting sweepers for the rain other than agility Thundy T?

Almost all Life orb tornadous T has the same 3 moves with hurricane, u turn, and focus blast/ superpower. I have seen sleep talk, tailwind, taunt, rain dance, and once I saw Hp ground for the fourth and final move. I want to know the best one for a team that has trouble with Breloom and sun teams. I have experimented with them and saw that with my playing style, there was no superior option. In your guy's opinions, which one is the best.
Landorus gets Rock Polish, and Tornadus gets Agility. Of those three, Tornadus is probably best suited for the rain because it gets Hurricane, though if you're going to boost its Speed anyway, the incarnate forme is probably better than the therian forme because of the extra power.

Most Tornadus-T I've seen have used Hurricane/Focus Blast/U-Turn/Taunt. It's not a bad set at all (personally, I run good old incarnate Tornadus with Hurricane/Focus Blast/HP Ice/Taunt). A powerful Flying STAB like Hurricane will wreck Breloom, with U-Turn to scout the switch and Taunt to stop any ideas of using Spore completely. Tornadus-T isn't the answer to sun teams itself, though. You could put Rain Dance on it, but temp weather is pretty lame. Besides, if you're going to use Tornadus-T at all, you'd want to use it in rain because of its dependence on Hurricane, so you should use Politoed with Tornadus-T. Toed would be the way around sun teams.
 
I don't know if the first question actually is about the Genies but let's try some other Agi sweeper.

Dragonite gets Agility but it is a bit overshadowed by Dragon Dance. Kindra, too, but generally lacks power and sucks against sun. The aforementioned Landorus is a fine Pokemon who fits in any kind of team that needs its service, Tornadus is more reliant in rain.
Moltes is, surprisingly, very good in rain thanks to its STAB Hurricane and a power equal to Tornadus. Additionally, Moltes can abuse sun as much as rain thanks to a super strong Fire Blast. I've never used Agility Moltes so I cannot tell how good it does but it sounds similar to Hurricane Volcanora.
 
I must of miss phrased my first question.

My definition of a sweeper is a pokemon that sets up your definition may be different, but I do not consider a standard tornadous t a sweeper. But I needed something that has a speed boosting move that abuses the rain.

Sorry to sound like a prick here but I needed to make that clear.
 
I must of miss phrased my first question.

My definition of a sweeper is a pokemon that sets up your definition may be different, but I do not consider a standard tornadous t a sweeper. But I needed something that has a speed boosting move that abuses the rain.

Sorry to sound like a prick here but I needed to make that clear.

Just for your general understanding and to avoid future misunderstandings most players refer to all offensive Pokemon as sweepers and Pokemon that use set-up moves are generally refered to as set-up sweepers.

If you look for speed boosting pokemon Dragon Dancers like Gyarados Salamence and Dragonite work well on Rain Teams (though Mence can't abuse Fire Blast as well on Rain teams) and like already mentioned Sheer Force landorus-I is one of the most dangerous sweepers in the current metagame that needs little support and can function on basically every kind of team.
 
Well, as said, the Incarnate form of Tornadus is slightly stronger than Tornadus-T, both have a perfectly accurate Hurricane in rain. Most people here consider Hurricane a typical rain move, so that may fit your definition of "abuse". Volcanora and Moltes are in the same vain, with the difference that they can "abuse" sun in the same fashion thanks to Fire Blast.
If that isn't enough abuse, try Dragonite. It has everything a rain mon can wish for: STAB Hurricane, Thunder, Aqua Tail/Waterfall, as well as two speed boosting moves and a darn good ability to setup.
 
Thanks for the info :) is bulky sd techniloom viable? But anyway, which set is the best atm?

As for the dragons, i dont have anything to really ask anymore other than: which latios set is better, lo or specs?

Edit: also, can hydreigon take the role of lati@s as an absorber and reliably fast destroyer?
1) no, technician breloom is not bulky and it never will be. the only reason to run a "bulky" variant of SD breloom would be to go for two swords dances before sweeping... good luck with that cause it's never gonna happen. you can shift EVs from speed into special defense or HP if you want to take like one hit to avoid being checked by whatever, but you're not gonna have the bulk to set up multiple SDs, you need poison heal for that and there's no reason to run SD poison heal breloom. that's a pipe dream.

2) neither one is better, this depends on your team

3) hydreigon is 12 base speed points slower than lati@s, which is a complete and utter kiss of death in a metagame that centers around 108+ speed tiers. it also trades a pursuit weakness for a fighting weakness. so no, it is not at all a viable replacement and it does not fill similar roles

Almost all Life orb tornadous T has the same 3 moves with hurricane, u turn, and focus blast/ superpower. I have seen sleep talk, tailwind, taunt, rain dance, and once I saw Hp ground for the fourth and final move. I want to know the best one for a team that has trouble with Breloom and sun teams. I have experimented with them and saw that with my playing style, there was no superior option. In your guy's opinions, which one is the best.
against breloom, sleep talk is probably the strongest option. you can blind switch in on a breloom and no matter what it does it can't touch you - unboosted, it can't kill you, and you can kill it literally in your sleep if you come in on spore, so it can't risk boosting either. specs tornadus-T happens to abuse this move particularly well since most hidden powers are fairly weak and highly prediction-dependent, meaning it doesn't usually have better options. against sun in general, rain dance is generally better. most of sun's hurricane resists, if it even has any, can be swept away by boosted water moves. you can then rain dance on a predicted ninetales switch and wreak utter havoc with tornadus for a few turns.

Are there any other speed boosting sweepers for the rain other than agility Thundy T?
if you want a pokemon that actually uses a speed boosting move and can "abuse rain", agility thundurus-T is by far the most viable and the best. it helps that thundurus is a really underprepared-for threat and a lot of teams are subtly weak to it. tornadus-T is rain's best pokemon and hands down the best pokemon in OU, but there's really no good reason to run agility on it. landorus (either forme) can abuse rock polish well but it doesn't reall benefit much from rain. you have some +1 speed boosters as well such as volcarona, miscellaneous dragons, but none of these are especially distinguished in rain (hurricane volcarona is notable for being a threat to sun).
 
Thank you all for that information. It gives me something to test and think about.

I have 1 last question. Is burn orb conkeldurr a decent counter to Breloom?
 
I have 1 last question. Is burn orb conkeldurr a decent counter to Breloom?

No. Even without any Attack boosts, Bullet Seed has a chance to OHKO the standard 120/0 Conkeldurr if it hits 5 times. A +2 Mach Punch with a Fight Gem boost also has a very good chance of OHKOing that same Conkeldurr. Sure, it may be able to check it in a pinch, but it definitely can't switch in on it safely. You'll be far better off using something like Celebi or Latias if you want a solid answer to Breloom.
 
The main issue with countering breloom is the bastard has spore, luckily most people are morons, so just switch to a sleep fodder first before your counter.

The best counters for Breloom are as follows: Skarmory, Celebi, Latias, and Amoonguss. Salamence, Dragonite, Venusaur, Latios, and Gengar are solid checks to shaky counters depending on the situation.
 
Hi. I have a latias on my team but it gets trap by Tyranitar. Rotom-W volt switch allows the opponent to send in Tyranitar and if I send out my own Rotom-W the opponent will just bring in something to check/counter it and I would have to switch and the damage racks up very quickly. I'm thinking of Celebi which can survive a pursuit when trying to switch out on Tyranitar and I can just recover everything off later on. I don't know what set to use and if you want to see the team, I have a rmt of it. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3476104
Thx's for the help.
 
Hi. I have a latias on my team but it gets trap by Tyranitar. Rotom-W volt switch allows the opponent to send in Tyranitar and if I send out my own Rotom-W the opponent will just bring in something to check/counter it and I would have to switch and the damage racks up very quickly. I'm thinking of Celebi which can survive a pursuit when trying to switch out on Tyranitar and I can just recover everything off later on. I don't know what set to use and if you want to see the team, I have a rmt of it. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3476104
Thx's for the help.
Okay, first thing, Celebi is HORRIBLE against Tyranitar. Pursuit does a crap ton and Crunch OHKOes. Not what you want. A standard CB Scizor should work in the respect of killing Tyranitar, as it can Bullet Punch or U-turn on it for the kill. Scizor is also just a really good Pokemon in general and helps against a ton of Pokemon. The set:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
 
Celebi can escape a pursuit with baton pass, but pursuit does pitiful damage unless its banded.

You could use Amoonguss, Shaymin, and Roserade to, Tangrowth can work but its very niche alswell.
 
1) no, technician breloom is not bulky and it never will be. the only reason to run a "bulky" variant of SD breloom would be to go for two swords dances before sweeping... good luck with that cause it's never gonna happen. you can shift EVs from speed into special defense or HP if you want to take like one hit to avoid being checked by whatever, but you're not gonna have the bulk to set up multiple SDs, you need poison heal for that and there's no reason to run SD poison heal breloom. that's a pipe dream.

2) neither one is better, this depends on your team

3) hydreigon is 12 base speed points slower than lati@s, which is a complete and utter kiss of death in a metagame that centers around 108+ speed tiers. it also trades a pursuit weakness for a fighting weakness. so no, it is not at all a viable replacement and it does not fill similar roles

Kk thanks for all the info, ive finally finished my team :)
 
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