Is Poipole legal in LC, and if not, why?
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers / Little Cup Information / Forum Rules
- Thread starter Coconut
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There's not much of a difference in damage:
252+ Atk Sheer Force Krabby Liquidation vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Adaptability Corphish Crabhammer vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 12-16 (52.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and Corphish gets much better moves for it's role, notably aqua jet and swords/dragon dance combo that help it secure multiple KO's per match. Krabby doesn't get any priority moves and isn't that fast.
Deerling's typically used as a Jirachi wannabe with Serene Grace Headbutt, things like Z-Bounce have also been seen before. Sap Sipper could be used as a Snivy switch-in but it's not really worth it when there's other pokemon out there that do that better.
252+ Atk Sheer Force Krabby Liquidation vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Adaptability Corphish Crabhammer vs. 156 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 12-16 (52.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and Corphish gets much better moves for it's role, notably aqua jet and swords/dragon dance combo that help it secure multiple KO's per match. Krabby doesn't get any priority moves and isn't that fast.
Deerling's typically used as a Jirachi wannabe with Serene Grace Headbutt, things like Z-Bounce have also been seen before. Sap Sipper could be used as a Snivy switch-in but it's not really worth it when there's other pokemon out there that do that better.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/little-cup-ev-spreads.64199/
Is this still a valid explanation of EVs in LC?
Is this still a valid explanation of EVs in LC?
Yes! EV spreads work the same way across all gens in which they exist, so that guide is still valid. I skimmed through and it looks like some of the info is wrong, eg base 103 to 112 in a stat reaches 22 with a positive nature, not 21 (this would have been wrong in gen 4 as well), but it should give you the gist of how EVs work at level 5.
By the way, if you don’t want to come up with your own EV spreads or just want a reference, have a look at our analyses. The listed EV spread is usually the most viable for the metagame, but be sure to look at the set details for alternative, often equally viable spreads, sometimes with IV related optimizations related to hidden power.
By the way, if you don’t want to come up with your own EV spreads or just want a reference, have a look at our analyses. The listed EV spread is usually the most viable for the metagame, but be sure to look at the set details for alternative, often equally viable spreads, sometimes with IV related optimizations related to hidden power.
Hello old friends!
Looking to potentially re-incorporate myself into USUM LC with the advent of time in my transitioning life. Have a bit of a larger question with a decently broad scope, so prepare to explain yourselves!
How has LC changed from X and Y?
As someone who has only played higher tiers in generation 7, LC is a bit of an enigma to me for once. Is the meta still as offensively focused as it was? Has the introduction of Z-Crystals shaken up the LC tier by providing mons a seemingly viable resistance to the dreaded knock off? How have the new pokemon affected the outcome of the tier? (as I assume it has leveled out quite a bit since the onset of generation 7)
Additionally, how has the community changed? Change begets change, and I assume the LC population has shifted a bit as times have progressed. Are there any new users or are they all just Corporal Levi alts? Has the community grown larger or smaller since I was last here?
Bunch of questions, I know. But if I were to properly reintroduce myself into this tier, I'd like to be totally armed with knowledge :)
(also is Kaleidoscope still viable)
Looking to potentially re-incorporate myself into USUM LC with the advent of time in my transitioning life. Have a bit of a larger question with a decently broad scope, so prepare to explain yourselves!
How has LC changed from X and Y?
As someone who has only played higher tiers in generation 7, LC is a bit of an enigma to me for once. Is the meta still as offensively focused as it was? Has the introduction of Z-Crystals shaken up the LC tier by providing mons a seemingly viable resistance to the dreaded knock off? How have the new pokemon affected the outcome of the tier? (as I assume it has leveled out quite a bit since the onset of generation 7)
Additionally, how has the community changed? Change begets change, and I assume the LC population has shifted a bit as times have progressed. Are there any new users or are they all just Corporal Levi alts? Has the community grown larger or smaller since I was last here?
Bunch of questions, I know. But if I were to properly reintroduce myself into this tier, I'd like to be totally armed with knowledge :)
(also is Kaleidoscope still viable)
Hi, welcome back!
Not so simple questions but I'll try to give them all simple answers...
LC has changed quite a bit from XY. While it still shares some traits, such as the prevalence of Fighting-types, there are plenty of new things to grasp.
The meta is still quite fast paced, with stall still not quite being a viable option. With that in mind, there are a brand new set of viable mons that previously were either out-shadowed or just underwhelming, in addition to a few new choices that can be used. While Z-Crystals aren't exactly a counter to Knock Off in many situations, they do provide alternate options to your favorite sets and can be used to throw a wrench in your opponent's wincon.
Obviously the community has grown, shifted, and changed, but we are still one of the most welcoming and open communities out there and I can assure you that you'll find a place and a group of friends almost immediately.
And I'd say no, your rmt is not viable in the current meta, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!
So, I'm still fairly new to playing Little Cup and I was kinda curious; I understand why Drought Vulpix is banned, but why Flash Fire Vulpix? Isn't it only banned because of Drought, or is there more to it than that?
Hi, and welcome to LC! LC attempts to tier Pokemon and avoid bans which "nerf" Pokemon just to keep them around, and so the chosen suspect was Vulpix rather than the Drought ability - similar to why Meditite and not Pure Power was banned for example. You can see the suspect thread here.
I see, thank you!
There are many ways to deal with Vullaby. Hit it with Special attacks, hit it super effectively, use faster pokemon to give it a hard time, have rocks up, use priority. You should be keeping track of how much HP it has and not just swinging wildly at it unless you know you can take it out.
In the future, ask your questions here instead of making your own thread.
Vullaby can be tough to deal with cause its got so many different sets. Really, though, it depends on your team.
For most sets, dedicates Vullaby counters can shut it down. Onix and Tirtouga are perhaps the best at this. Onix is particular can survive any of its attacks then get a Weak Armor boost to outspeed it if Vullaby also got the boost. Pawniard and Magnemite also work fairly well. Spritzee is also a good choice, though it takes a lot of damage from BB if its been Knocked Off. That said, its probably the best stop to NP sets since it doesnt have to worry about HP Grass.
Ultimately though, dealing with Vullaby really depends on the context of your team vs. the enemy's team. If you'd like, feel free to post a replay of a match you feel you particularly struggled with Vullaby and we can give you some pointers.
Hi everyone!
I'm still -somewhat- new to Little Cup (and the competitive scene in general) and I've been wondering about some in-battle workings I couldn't find in the descriptions. So I'll pose my quick questions here if that's alright.
1. If you use Worry Seed or Skill Swap, does the effect remain active after the opponent switches? (like Trick or Knock Off)
2. Does passive stat reduction from burn or paralysis trigger Contrary or Defiant?
3. I stumbled upon a contradicting line in the strategy for Surskit in relation to Cottonee's. They read as follows:
Cottonee: Furthermore, it (Spritzee) is not worried about Encore due to Aroma Veil and can stall Cottonee out with Wish.
Surskit: Cottonee can also cripple setup move users such as Munchlax and Calm Mind Spritzee with Encore that can take advantage of Surskit.
It doesn't seem that Cottonee can help Surskit much regarding Spritzee, right? (sadly...)
Thanks in advance! ^^
I'm still -somewhat- new to Little Cup (and the competitive scene in general) and I've been wondering about some in-battle workings I couldn't find in the descriptions. So I'll pose my quick questions here if that's alright.
1. If you use Worry Seed or Skill Swap, does the effect remain active after the opponent switches? (like Trick or Knock Off)
2. Does passive stat reduction from burn or paralysis trigger Contrary or Defiant?
3. I stumbled upon a contradicting line in the strategy for Surskit in relation to Cottonee's. They read as follows:
Cottonee: Furthermore, it (Spritzee) is not worried about Encore due to Aroma Veil and can stall Cottonee out with Wish.
Surskit: Cottonee can also cripple setup move users such as Munchlax and Calm Mind Spritzee with Encore that can take advantage of Surskit.
It doesn't seem that Cottonee can help Surskit much regarding Spritzee, right? (sadly...)
Thanks in advance! ^^
Hi and welcome to LC!
To answer the questions in order, No, ability swaps are removed upon switching out. No, burns and paras do not trigger contrary. And yes, the Cottonee line is incorrect and should be corrected. Nineage
Stick around in LC!
LC Doubles is an OM (other metagame) and in general LC OMs are not too popular. The number of people who play them regularly are not more than a handful, they definitely do not warrant their own room. However there is an LC Doubles discord chat https://discord.gg/3ymJW5W
Hi!
Drifloon's justification for being banned is here, you can read a bit more about why we chose to ban it and what exactly it did best: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-ban-list-votes.3589646/
The problem is Recycle isn't really a broken move by any sense of the word really. Sure you might call it "cheap", but it's got plenty of counterplay options which many pokemon can easily abuse. For example, the single-best move in the tier—Knock Off, completely decimates any recycle strats you could possibly do. On top of that, if you want to handle Recycle on most mons, you can just forgo to use a weaker move, to not pop Berry Juice, then a stronger move to score a KO. The problem with Drifloon, however, is that it limits the amount of options that the opposing player can use by just being there. If I guess the wrong Drifloon set and try to check it with a mon it just sets up on, I have the potential to lose the game almost immediately.
I'm sorry you can't use your favorite set, but saying that drifloon did nothing wrong is simply not true, the balloon creates a toxic metagame which no one really wants to play in.
Generally it's safe not to theorymon about most stuff like this, because my opinion might be completely different from another player's, and we both might be completely incorrect. Buuuuuuuuuuuut I think it's pretty safe to say that items become way more prevalent, particularly Berry Juice sets. In addition, the meta might slow down a bit, favoring slightly tankier mons.
It's pretty safe to say Knock Off won't be banned though, so we don't really have to worry about that.
Hope that helps!
Clamperl has much higher overall power with Deep Sea Tooth, meaning that it can manage to OHKO stuff such as Timburr and Foongus unboosted. At a +2 boost, it is able to OHKO almost all of the metagame, and it's not affected by having to run Protect, as common priority such as Fake Out Mienfoo and Sucker Punch Pawniard is threatening. Pretty much it only needs Surf + coverage move to pose a big threat, and Surf already does too much. While Shellder can threaten Pokémon such as Abra thanks to maximum multi-hit rolls, it is affected by the commonality of priority, having to give up on a coverage move to run Protect, lack of power unboosted, and the surgeance of bulky threats such as Tirtouga. I think it should be all to clear the question
I'll add that the raise of bulky builds, notably the FerroSpritz core and bulky Foo being very present atm totally hinders Shellder, that may seem good in paper but has a bit fallen off grace.
Plus, Clamperl isn't unuseful outside of shell smash boosts as Surf and Ice Beam still do good chunks of damage thanks to the Deep Sea Tooth, once boosted, nothing bar a not chipped Ferro (which is hard to have) or a healthy Marea can tank hits from the Clamp, resulting in it only being rkable by priorities, and hang on a bit ! Rattled can punish U-Turn by turning a not-lowered defenses Clamp into an already very fearable monster. Also it only needs Surf + Ice Beam (or HP Fire the new meta e_e) to do real damage while Shellder is hindered by not having coverage like Liquidation to hit the likes of Pawniard, or HP Fire for the Ferroseeds I guess even if this is a bit gimmick ?
So, Clamperl is more qualified than Shellder to break through teams, due to not many Pokémon being able to wall it, whereas Shellder is walled by bulky mons that are sure not many, but are present more than enough to hinder Shellder's ability to sweep, and so, being not very effective at a wincon nowadays.
Also, note that some builds with Shellder are efficient because it is not the principal wincon of the team, see the ClampShell builds, as well as Aurora Veil ones.
Not saying that Shellder is a bad mon at all, it sure is threatening, but the meta, while adapting to other threats (Foongus resulting to a higher usage of Ferroseed - Full Atk Adamant Vull resulting to the rise of Bulky Foo), also has adapted to it, to the point that without much support, it can't really sweep a solid team.
Hope I could help you ^^
EDIT - Oshet the post specifies Simple answers but my answer isn't that simple, is that still good ? Someone ? Ok, I'm assuming that is.
Plus, Clamperl isn't unuseful outside of shell smash boosts as Surf and Ice Beam still do good chunks of damage thanks to the Deep Sea Tooth, once boosted, nothing bar a not chipped Ferro (which is hard to have) or a healthy Marea can tank hits from the Clamp, resulting in it only being rkable by priorities, and hang on a bit ! Rattled can punish U-Turn by turning a not-lowered defenses Clamp into an already very fearable monster. Also it only needs Surf + Ice Beam (or HP Fire the new meta e_e) to do real damage while Shellder is hindered by not having coverage like Liquidation to hit the likes of Pawniard, or HP Fire for the Ferroseeds I guess even if this is a bit gimmick ?
So, Clamperl is more qualified than Shellder to break through teams, due to not many Pokémon being able to wall it, whereas Shellder is walled by bulky mons that are sure not many, but are present more than enough to hinder Shellder's ability to sweep, and so, being not very effective at a wincon nowadays.
Also, note that some builds with Shellder are efficient because it is not the principal wincon of the team, see the ClampShell builds, as well as Aurora Veil ones.
Not saying that Shellder is a bad mon at all, it sure is threatening, but the meta, while adapting to other threats (Foongus resulting to a higher usage of Ferroseed - Full Atk Adamant Vull resulting to the rise of Bulky Foo), also has adapted to it, to the point that without much support, it can't really sweep a solid team.
Hope I could help you ^^
EDIT - Oshet the post specifies Simple answers but my answer isn't that simple, is that still good ? Someone ? Ok, I'm assuming that is.