Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)

Is there a general guide for teambuilding in usm ou anywhere? Also, how do I make bulky offense type teams that don't have hard hawlucha counters like zapdos & clefable as less weak to it as possible?
 
Is there a general guide for teambuilding in usm ou anywhere? Also, how do I make bulky offense type teams that don't have hard hawlucha counters like zapdos & clefable as less weak to it as possible?
i think pdc made a teambuilding guide, theres some outdated ones likes joeys and blunders but a lot of the logic and knowledge still holds true. also koko himself, especially shuca is a solid lucha check, especially if its carrying roost. other checks are shit like fini, pex can take one +2 boosted acro and haze / fish for burns / toxic it in return. priority is also nice - mega pinsir qa, grens shuriken etc.
 

A

power incarnate
is a Live Chat Contributor
Is there a general guide for teambuilding in usm ou anywhere? Also, how do I make bulky offense type teams that don't have hard hawlucha counters like zapdos & clefable as less weak to it as possible?

Hmm there's a few other alternatives to use to patch up the Hawlucha weakness, Defensive Flyinium Z or Toxic Landorus-T is one of the more safer options while also crippling the likes of Tapu Bulu, Zapdos and Tangrowth as a bonus, if you forgo U-turn and say go Stealth Rock / HP Ice / Earthquake / Toxic you can soft check Hawlucha (or put in a timer then proceed to play accordingly) while still checking Zygarde. Protox handles Hawlucha, while protect-less Landorus-T needs a bit of help still from the team.

12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe Tapu Koko will always be able to avoid the OHKO from +2 Hi Jump Kick from Hawlucha after Stealth Rock, and only has a 12% to be KO'd by the rare Stone Edge variants

alternatively, the Shuca EV spread will always beat it, but that's team dependent.


Tapu Fini (bulky spread) buffers a bit vs Hawlucha and can 1v1 if Hawlucha has been slightly chipped by say Stealth Rock, and it also cancels out Terrain which prevents it from being established in the first place. (also helps vs Medicham)

If you're running BO, a bigger threat to think about is Medicham which is pretty limiting in terms of defensive counterplay, so you should really consider Magic Guard Clefable or Mew in mind when building.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Taunt
- Nature's Madness
- Moonblast

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Protect (only if you have a Stealth Rock user already like Ferrothorn or Heatran)
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 
Hmm there's a few other alternatives to use to patch up the Hawlucha weakness, Defensive Flyinium Z or Toxic Landorus-T is one of the more safer options while also crippling the likes of Tapu Bulu, Zapdos and Tangrowth as a bonus, if you forgo U-turn and say go Stealth Rock / HP Ice / Earthquake / Toxic you can soft check Hawlucha (or put in a timer then proceed to play accordingly) while still checking Zygarde. Protox handles Hawlucha, while protect-less Landorus-T needs a bit of help still from the team.

12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe Tapu Koko will always be able to avoid the OHKO from +2 Hi Jump Kick from Hawlucha after Stealth Rock, and only has a 12% to be KO'd by the rare Stone Edge variants

alternatively, the Shuca EV spread will always beat it, but that's team dependent.


Tapu Fini (bulky spread) buffers a bit vs Hawlucha and can 1v1 if Hawlucha has been slightly chipped by say Stealth Rock, and it also cancels out Terrain which prevents it from being established in the first place. (also helps vs Medicham)

If you're running BO, a bigger threat to think about is Medicham which is pretty limiting in terms of defensive counterplay, so you should really consider Magic Guard Clefable or Mew in mind when building.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Taunt
- Nature's Madness
- Moonblast

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Protect (only if you have a Stealth Rock user already like Ferrothorn or Heatran)
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
thanks this was somewhat in depth, i was laddering a bit few weeks ago and i had a full hp koko specially for hawlucha and i thought i was gucci but like... "the opposing hawlucha used swords dance! the opposing hawlucha used poison jab!" my rng has to be 1 of the worst on ladder.

and about medicham, ive always just brought something like a specs ashgren that can threaten it with an ohko and *risky* way to pivot it in and get medicham out of my face. hate clef for counter medicham coz it literally puts u in a shit position to get haxed, i personally did this to someone using a clef by using zen on a predicted switch and then trying to flinch it and i got it and he was cursing at me upside down lol.

but hey, thanks.
 
Hey what happened to the creative and underrated thread? I cant find it and i wanted to post an uh interesting clefable sweeper set

Even withour posting i liked seeing the creative sets every now and then
 
Is there a general guide for teambuilding in usm ou anywhere? Also, how do I make bulky offense type teams that don't have hard hawlucha counters like zapdos & clefable as less weak to it as possible?
if you want a really unreliable and bad counter just use a random mon with red card lmao
 

A

power incarnate
is a Live Chat Contributor
Is that much viable Unaware Clefable in balance builds that are weak to some setup mons like lucha or subtect DD zyg?

it's doable but you should keep in mind that Unaware Clef has a couple of weaknesses such as being affected by hazards, limited recovery (you're stuck with Wish + Protect, Moonlight isn't very good), being prone to status (though it can fit heal bell!) among other things, but it's definitely much safer when facing against those two as even Iron Tail variants fail to 2HKO provided Stealth Rock isn't on the field (and Protect also helps anyway), and doesn't care about Hawlucha boosting. As a bonus, Unaware Clef ignores Psychic Seed's special defense boost if you come across Tapu Lele + Hawlucha.

If you are Unaware on a balance build, you should try to keep the surprise as much as possible so you can take advantage of your opponents thinking you're Magic Guard.

It does trade off more reliable healing and other great benefits of Magic Guard so feel free to take your pick, and then build or adjust accordingly on your team!
 

lyd

Happily Stoked
is a Smogon Media Contributor
Can you hire kokoloko to ban a bunch of stuff? I think there are too many threats right now. If not, are there plans dispense of a certain other Koko?
In the first place, I really don't understand why you'd want Koko 'dispensed' but this isn't the place for suspect talk to let's just get to the other point. I honestly think Kokoloko method doesn't belong in Over Used at all, it I said amazing for lower tiers that constantly have their metagame changed but on a ter such as OU that doesn't face quick rises or quick drops, it's honestly unecessary.
 
I dont know if im crazy or just bad but how do u beat magnezone + lele/kartana/pinsir/(insert mon that hates steel) teams?

Its very unfair to have ur steel just mindlessly removed by random u-turn/bait to make way for another mon to sweep u easily and its honestly ruining any enjoyment of running balance in this meta
Am i supposed to run shed shell ferro/steela or never switch in my steel until i beat magnezone? I dont get it its irritating me almost as much as dugtrio, all trapping gets me really mad, ive started to run shed shell ferrothorn/celesteela

Is there a way to not autolose to magnezone support based teams on fat balance?
 
I dont know if im crazy or just bad but how do u beat magnezone + lele/kartana/pinsir/(insert mon that hates steel) teams?

Its very unfair to have ur steel just mindlessly removed by random u-turn/bait to make way for another mon to sweep u easily and its honestly ruining any enjoyment of running balance in this meta
Am i supposed to run shed shell ferro/steela or never switch in my steel until i beat magnezone? I dont get it its irritating me almost as much as dugtrio, all trapping gets me really mad, ive started to run shed shell ferrothorn/celesteela

Is there a way to not autolose to magnezone support based teams on fat balance?
For Lele there is AV Mag, Heatran and U-turn Jirachi.

For Kart there is Zapdos, Landorus, Tangrowth (unless fightinium) and your own scarf Zone.

For Pinsir there is Zapdos, Shuca Koko and Rotom-Wash.

I agree Magnezone is a great trapper but it isn't unfair imo, and you still have options on balance.
 
I dont know if im crazy or just bad but how do u beat magnezone + lele/kartana/pinsir/(insert mon that hates steel) teams?

Its very unfair to have ur steel just mindlessly removed by random u-turn/bait to make way for another mon to sweep u easily and its honestly ruining any enjoyment of running balance in this meta
Am i supposed to run shed shell ferro/steela or never switch in my steel until i beat magnezone? I dont get it its irritating me almost as much as dugtrio, all trapping gets me really mad, ive started to run shed shell ferrothorn/celesteela

Is there a way to not autolose to magnezone support based teams on fat balance?
Hey, check my thread, where we analysed Pokemon that can threaten the core of Magnezone + Pinsir ;) ;) ;).

Just scroll down from the linked post, also if there's any other cores you're struggling with you can check the Archive on page 1!
 
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Can someone help me with the EVs and Nature to my Magearna set? I'm relatively new to competitive battling and am not very confident in my ability to dictate where EVs go in every pokemon. Any form of advice would be greatly appreciated! But please keep in mind I asked for EVs and Nature help, not a moveset change:)

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul Heart
Evs:
Nature:
-Calm Mind
-Thunder Bolt
-Pain Split
-Fleur Cannon

Thank you for the help!!:)
 
Can someone help me with the EVs and Nature to my Magearna set? I'm relatively new to competitive battling and am not very confident in my ability to dictate where EVs go in every pokemon. Any form of advice would be greatly appreciated! But please keep in mind I asked for EVs and Nature help, not a moveset change:)

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul Heart
Evs:
Nature:
-Calm Mind
-Thunder Bolt
-Pain Split
-Fleur Cannon

Thank you for the help!!:)
The set looks a bit confused in the direction it wants to go, if you want an offensive magearna replace pain split with Shift Gear and put evs in SpA and Spe. If you want a defensive set with Z, I'd recommend running Eo's Z Heal Bell variant:
Magearna @ Normalium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Heart Swap
- Heal Bell
 

GMars

It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
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Can someone help me with the EVs and Nature to my Magearna set? I'm relatively new to competitive battling and am not very confident in my ability to dictate where EVs go in every pokemon. Any form of advice would be greatly appreciated! But please keep in mind I asked for EVs and Nature help, not a moveset change:)

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul Heart
Evs:
Nature:
-Calm Mind
-Thunder Bolt
-Pain Split
-Fleur Cannon

Thank you for the help!!:)
After a few battles you might find that Pain Split isn't reliable enough to make this set consistent, but I'm happy to help with EVs. Given that you're not running Shift Gear, you probably want to prioritize bulk investment over Speed or offense. The standard spread for sets like this is 252 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SpD (maxing out the stat you can't boost). This is the spread I'd recommend if you're using this as an Anti-Stall set with some Heatran support, since it can't be 2HKO'd by Gliscor, letting you hit it with a Twinkle Tackle as it uses Taunt or Swords Dance. If you are trying to use this as an Anti-Stall set though, I'd recommend a small change of swapping Fleur Cannon for Ice Beam and adding in Electrium Z so you can beat Pex more easily, with a spread like 252 HP / 52+ Def / 200 SpD so you can use Calm Mind on TDK Stall's Heatran even if you get burned by Lava Plume.

Here's the importable for the more standard spread:

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Fleur Cannon

And here's the importable for the anti-stall alteration:

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Ice Beam

Looking at some general benchmarks with the set you have though, if you're feeling truly wild you can roll with:

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 56 SpA / 148 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Fleur Cannon

It bops defensive Landorus-T with Twinkle Tackle, Speed creeps standard Choice Band Tyranitar, and outspeeds Adamant Mega Mawile. I've included a stream-of-thought process for coming up with this in the hide tag below.

Hope that helped! In general when coming up with EVs, think about what you want the set to do. If you want to be able to set up on a certain set of Pokemon, head to https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ and check how much investment you need for each one. Then check how much offense you need to KO the Pokemon you want to, while making sure you outspeed any dangerous threats you'd otherwise be able to take care of, using the Speed Tiers as a guide: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/

We also have a bunch of premade sets on the dex. https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/
You'll see that offensive Pokemon tend to maximize out their attack and speed with a speed boosting nature that takes away from the stat they're not using (Timid for special attackers and Jolly for physical attackers), while defensive Pokemon tend to maximize their HP and one defensive stat, using their nature to boost that stat while taking away from the attack type they won't be using (usually Bold or Calm). HP EVs may be 248 instead of 252 to minimize damage Pokemon take from entry hazards. Exceptions to these trends are usually specialized sweepers, such as Hawlucha.

Offensive Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/alakazam/
Defensive Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/toxapex/
Specialized Sweeper Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/hawlucha/

Cheers!

(Edit: If you're curious, the Attack IVs automatically set to 0 for Pokemon that don't use physical moves to minimize damage you'd take from hitting yourself in Confusion or being hit by the attack Foul Play, which is based on the target's Attack stat rather than the user's).

I ran calcs uninvested Magearna and 252 HP Magearna vs every OU set, just to scope out what messing with the defense investment can let the set do (some calcs in the set are a bit off because of lack of auto-weather):
1524076003487.png

The 1st green bar is where investment helps you avoid an OHKO, and the second is where investment lets you avoid a 2HKO.
1524076048220.png

and
1524076089243.png


Things that stand out: Lando's EQ, Tran's Magma Storm (not so much since you can't do much to it in return), Ash-Gren's Hydro, Specs Koko's tbolt, and Gengar's Shadow Ball. Specifically for this set, you seem like you want to be sent in, survive a hit while you're setting up a Calm Mind, then survive another hit while you pain split. If an attack does under 59.9%, we can eat at +0 and recover at +1. That range is:
1524076576712.png

Orange represents physical moves, which don't get affected by Calm Mind. So bulk only relevantly helps with this scenario versus Tapu Lele and Scarf Keldeo. Looking at how Special Defense EVs play into it, now calc'ing for 252 HP / 252+ SpD:
1524076890630.png

By tuning the special defense, we have the opportunity to add in LOrb Greninja, SpDef Tran, and Utility Tran into this. Tran is tough to beat around though, due to most of its sets running Taunt. Most grens won't bother staying in on a Magearna, so honestly not much worth investing in here.

Scoping out physical defense:
1524077383311.png

1524077285309.png

Taking Band Zygarde's Thousand Arrows is cool, as is messing with some Gliscor variants.

Fine tuning defense at this level can come down to preference, so let's work on baselines for offense and speed and see what we have left to work with for bulk. Offensively, it'd be nice to beat Pex with a +1 Thunderbolt into a +0 Thunderbolt. To do this, you need ~42.5% damage at +0 to get past black sludge recovery. Unfortunately, we can't hit this without going Modest or Electrium Z, so you'll have to hope you can play around with a well-timed Pain Split. 56 SpA gives you a great chance to OHKO defensive lando after rocks with Fairium Z, so we can roll with that.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/
Magearna can be tuned between 121 and 251 Speed, meaning we could have the set outspeed the following:
Adamant Tapu Bulu, Jolly Ttar, Timid Magnezone (Either Scarf or Sub so nothin much we can do here) | (no longer requires Timid) 16 Spe Lando, Adamant Ttar, Uninvested Fini (Though roughly half run heavy speed investment according to the usage statistics), Adamant Mega Mawile

Looking at these, we could run 228 Speed EVs for 16 Spe Lando, 224 for Adamant TTar, 148 to creep the Band TTar set on the smogdex, 136 for Mega Mawile, or 100 to speed creep smogex Mega Mawile.

Doing 148 in speed gives you 52+ def leftover, enough to take 1 thousand arrows from band zygarde and taking an eq from Max Attack Lando, and jolly after rocks. Can't stunt on Gliscor, but most run Taunt or Swords Dance.
 
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After a few battles you might find that Pain Split isn't reliable enough to make this set consistent, but I'm happy to help with EVs. Given that you're not running Shift Gear, you probably want to prioritize bulk investment over Speed or offense. The standard spread for sets like this is 252 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SpD (maxing out the stat you can't boost). This is the spread I'd recommend if you're using this as an Anti-Stall set with some Heatran support, since it can't be 2HKO'd by Gliscor, letting you hit it with a Twinkle Tackle as it uses Taunt or Swords Dance. If you are trying to use this as an Anti-Stall set though, I'd recommend a small change of swapping Fleur Cannon for Ice Beam and adding in Electrium Z so you can beat Pex more easily, with a spread like 252 HP / 52+ Def / 200 SpD so you can use Calm Mind on TDK Stall's Heatran even if you get burned by Lava Plume.

Here's the importable for the more standard spread:

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Fleur Cannon

And here's the importable for the anti-stall alteration:

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Ice Beam

Looking at some general benchmarks with the set you have though, if you're feeling truly wild you can roll with:

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 56 SpA / 148 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Fleur Cannon

It bops defensive Landorus-T with Twinkle Tackle, Speed creeps standard Choice Band Tyranitar, and outspeeds Adamant Mega Mawile. I've included a stream-of-thought process for coming up with this in the hide tag below.

Hope that helped! In general when coming up with EVs, think about what you want the set to do. If you want to be able to set up on a certain set of Pokemon, head to https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ and check how much investment you need for each one. Then check how much offense you need to KO the Pokemon you want to, while making sure you outspeed any dangerous threats you'd otherwise be able to take care of, using the Speed Tiers as a guide: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/

We also have a bunch of premade sets on the dex. https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/
You'll see that offensive Pokemon tend to maximize out their attack and speed with a speed boosting nature that takes away from the stat they're not using (Timid for special attackers and Jolly for physical attackers), while defensive Pokemon tend to maximize their HP and one defensive stat, using their nature to boost that stat while taking away from the attack type they won't be using (usually Bold or Calm). HP EVs may be 248 instead of 252 to minimize damage Pokemon take from entry hazards. Exceptions to these trends are usually specialized sweepers, such as Hawlucha.

Offensive Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/alakazam/
Defensive Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/toxapex/
Specialized Sweeper Example: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/hawlucha/

Cheers!

(Edit: If you're curious, the Attack IVs automatically set to 0 for Pokemon that don't use physical moves to minimize damage you'd take from hitting yourself in Confusion or being hit by the attack Foul Play, which is based on the target's Attack stat rather than the user's).

I ran calcs uninvested Magearna and 252 HP Magearna vs every OU set, just to scope out what messing with the defense investment can let the set do (some calcs in the set are a bit off because of lack of auto-weather):
View attachment 111623
The 1st green bar is where investment helps you avoid an OHKO, and the second is where investment lets you avoid a 2HKO.
View attachment 111624
and
View attachment 111625

Things that stand out: Lando's EQ, Tran's Magma Storm (not so much since you can't do much to it in return), Ash-Gren's Hydro, Specs Koko's tbolt, and Gengar's Shadow Ball. Specifically for this set, you seem like you want to be sent in, survive a hit while you're setting up a Calm Mind, then survive another hit while you pain split. If an attack does under 59.9%, we can eat at +0 and recover at +1. That range is:
View attachment 111626
Orange represents physical moves, which don't get affected by Calm Mind. So bulk only relevantly helps with this scenario versus Tapu Lele and Scarf Keldeo. Looking at how Special Defense EVs play into it, now calc'ing for 252 HP / 252+ SpD:
View attachment 111627
By tuning the special defense, we have the opportunity to add in LOrb Greninja, SpDef Tran, and Utility Tran into this. Tran is tough to beat around though, due to most of its sets running Taunt. Most grens won't bother staying in on a Magearna, so honestly not much worth investing in here.

Scoping out physical defense:
View attachment 111630
View attachment 111629
Taking Band Zygarde's Thousand Arrows is cool, as is messing with some Gliscor variants.

Fine tuning defense at this level can come down to preference, so let's work on baselines for offense and speed and see what we have left to work with for bulk. Offensively, it'd be nice to beat Pex with a +1 Thunderbolt into a +0 Thunderbolt. To do this, you need ~42.5% damage at +0 to get past black sludge recovery. Unfortunately, we can't hit this without going Modest or Electrium Z, so you'll have to hope you can play around with a well-timed Pain Split. 56 SpA gives you a great chance to OHKO defensive lando after rocks with Fairium Z, so we can roll with that.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/
Magearna can be tuned between 121 and 251 Speed, meaning we could have the set outspeed the following:
Adamant Tapu Bulu, Jolly Ttar, Timid Magnezone (Either Scarf or Sub so nothin much we can do here) | (no longer requires Timid) 16 Spe Lando, Adamant Ttar, Uninvested Fini (Though roughly half run heavy speed investment according to the usage statistics), Adamant Mega Mawile

Looking at these, we could run 228 Speed EVs for 16 Spe Lando, 224 for Adamant TTar, 148 to creep the Band TTar set on the smogdex, 136 for Mega Mawile, or 100 to speed creep smogex Mega Mawile.

Doing 148 in speed gives you 52+ def leftover, enough to take 1 thousand arrows from band zygarde and taking an eq from Max Attack Lando, and jolly after rocks. Can't stunt on Gliscor, but most run Taunt or Swords Dance.
Are these excel sheets you setup yourself or is this a public tool somewhere?
 

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