Outclassed in every way by its mega, no longer strong enough to make any sort of significant impact on the meta, no longer bulky enough to tank any significant attack in the meta, and completely outclassed as an offensive bug type by multiple pokemon. It's nice in uu, and can maybe sometimes hold its own in the most situational situations, but for the most part you're better off with phero, m-sciz, buzzwole, or even volc.
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
A lot of strong threats were introduced so it needs its mega's stats to be on par with them, the stat boosts especially the defenses boost makes more difference than you probably think. Band Scizor is decent (yeah decent, not super good) in ORAS but in SM we have Tapu Lele to block Bullet Punch spam and Pheromosa to give it competition so Scizor's best use is a bulky Mega since it consistentely checks threats such as Tapu Bulu and Metagross due to its bulk and Roosts to recover any damage it has taken.
BandZor isn't bad in the traditional sense; its U-turns are still nukes (relatively speaking, considering that it is a 70 BP move) and it still has one of the strongest priority attacks in the game, but there are a lot of things which really hurt its viability in general. Psychic Terrain massively reduces the spammability of Bullet Punch (one of the set's biggest selling points) and the presence of other Pokemon that give it a lot of competition as an offensive Bug- or Steel-type (as well as the existence of Mega Scizor) just make it really hard to justify in a metagame like OU.
I'm very tilted right now and just at a loss for what to even do anymore. I don't even know how to make a team while also preparing to counter any of the 800 Pokemon I could come across. It feels like I just slap things that are commonly used together and call it a team. I think that's where the problem is. It's the team structure that's failing me and costing me games. Please help me learn.
800? There are only 50-100 viable Pokemon. Go to the OU viability list to find who they are. Also, you could go to the SM OU Teambuilding Competition if you are in need of a tested team.
That still doesn't help me learn HOW to make a team on my own though, which is what i am looking for. No article seems to be helping me.
I suggest trying out the site's Battling 101 program. It is an immensely useful resource for new and old players alike to help them get used to certain aspects of competitive play, building included.
Sorry about this. I'll be working on a teambuilding guide with SPL player Nedor over the next few weeks so hopefully we'll get you something to help!
On top of what Martin said, you can also watch SPL matches which could give you a better idea on what kind of cores/teams are most effective in higher level play (just a heads up that some teams aren't the greatest but those are pretty obvious). Other threads that can help you are the Sets Viability Rankings, OU cores, and role compendium. You could also take a look at the OU bazaar or team building competition.
Sadly, I have watched those which makes it even more depressing as I still am left without much of a clue. I have burned so many bridges with people trying to help me because i am having a hard time grasping how to be good at a kids game. i do not mean to come off in a negative manner in any way. just am tired of losing.
i also need help in how to make a core with any pokemon. Like say, Dhelmise. What am I looking for when pairing him up with someone for a core? Stuff like this might help me understand.
If you're looking for cores, a good place to look is the archive of the Good Cores thread. While atm it is still p. barren, it will keep increasing in size as the gen goes on and more and more cores are posted.
The definition of a core is a combination of Pokemon which work towards achieving a specific goal. For instance, a defensive core can aim to cover the weaknesses of it's partner, such as Skarmory+Chansey (Skarmory covers physical attackers that give Chansey a headache, Chansey covers special attackers that give Skarmory a headache) or the many type cores which aim to cover each others' type weaknesses. Offensive cores typically aim to either overwhelm shared checks (Landorus-T+Garchomp, Bisharp+Weavile etc.), to punish/take advantage of typical answers to the partner (Keldeo+Tyranitar, Special attacker+Screech Dugtrio etc.) or to help put one member of the core in a good position (Pelipper+Swift Swimmer, BP Scolipede+wallbreaker, Alolan Ninetales/Dual Screener+setup sweeper etc.). Just generally think of how they interact with their partners and design cores like that--that's the best advice I can give you.
As a general rule of thumb, you are going to have a harder time using Pokemon like Dhelmise which have little or no competitive viability. This is why the viability ranking is helpful--it gives you the jist of what is generally good/consistent and what generally isn't.
People are willing to help and keep helping if you're finding it hard, but only if you let them do so and are patient about it. You don't learn an entire game overnight, and getting frustrated over it isn't going to get you anywhere and is actually counterproductive. I'm going to repeat my suggestion of going to battling 101 'cause it is extremely useful on the whole and you will probably benefit heavily from it.
Because there is 1 viable setter in Koko and the only "good" abuser in Raichu is pretty mediocre, unlike Rain where there is a more reliable setter (Peli) and a decent pool of abusers to choose from. The other Tapus being so common is another issue because they will constantly reset the terrain. I'm pretty sure you have to wait til the sign up thread re-opens before signing up
But Landorus T and Garchomp share a big Ice weakness so why is that still a good core? There's a lot of things I'm not really understanding, even when reading up on cores. Same with Keldeo and Tyranitar. The opponent can punish those cores if they have Moonblast from Tapu Lele or something. The Swift Swim, Scoliopede thing makes sense though.
But I mean, when I'm on Showdown, I take a Garchomp and use it standard. How do I decide what goes with it? Is a fairy a good partner since it covers the Garchomps weakness?
The way I like to build teams is that I choose 1 mon or a core, it doesn't matter if they have a big weakness, and go from there. In building the team you should look at calcs and speed tiers, along with viability rankings. Look at what common mons counter your team and introduce counters to those. If your team has a particular playstyle (eg. Spikes offence) try to pick mons that also benefit from this playstyle, as well as Mons that help your team.
If you're still struggling to understand teambuilding, the thing that helped me the most was the 'Teambuilding' sections of RMT posts, so look there to see how others do it too.
One last thing, NEVER pick mons randomly or on a whim, as the majority of the time these mons will not benefit you at all.
Landorus-T and Garchomp is a good core due to their ability to overwhelm and/or bait out shared checks such as Skarmory, Rotom-W, Tangrowth, Celesteela etc. consistently. While they share similar defensive weaknesses, the core is still good because it is an offensively oriented core as opposed to a defensively oriented core, and also because you have four other teammates to cover said weaknesses--allowing it to function well on an offensive team. Keldeo+Tyranitar as a core functions because Tyranitar is capable of Pursuit trapping common Keldeo stops such as Latios; a better way of putting this across would've been to say Keldeo+Pursuit trapper, so my bad there, and as such it can encompass stuff like Keldeo+Pursuit Mega Metagross and Keldeo+Pursuit Weavile too. The thing you need to consider with Tar/Weavile is that Dark/Fighting also has very good offensive coverage--hitting every type aside from Fairy for neutral damage, allowing the core to function in that respect too (granted that this is not the only type of offensive core, as Lando-T+Garchomp, Bisharp+Weavile etc. demonstrate, in that it is also a good idea to combine Pokemon which can overload shared stops).
To decide what works well with a Pokemon you have to consider the following things wherever they are applicable to the type of team or core you are aiming to design:
- Offensive synergy--do they share and overwhelm checks, and do they have means of luring said checks? (Landorus+Garchomp; Bisharp+Weavile; Tapu Lele+Mega Metagross, Tapu Koko+Thundurus(-T) etc.).
- Defensive synergy--how well do they cover each other's weaknesses in terms of stat spreads and/or type weaknesses? (Skarmory+Chansey, Ferrothorn+Heatran, Toxapex+AV Tangrowth etc.)
- Utility synergy--does one Pokemon provide utility which enhances the way in which its partner functions? (Mega Sableye+Dugtrio, Keldeo+Pursuit, Setup+dual screens, frail attacker+slow U-turn/Volt Switch user, Volcarona/Charizard+Rapid Spin/Defog, multiple Volt Switch/U-turn users, Tapu Koko/Tapu Lele+Mega Metagross, Screech Dugtrio+special attacker, weather ability+weatherspeed ability etc.)
If there is anything here you don't understand, don't be afraid to ask :)
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Only two types take less than neutral damage to Ghost: Normal and Dark.
For Normal-types, Chansey is the only common one.
For Dark-types... they don't exactly fare well in a Fairy-infested metagame.
Chansey also doesn't do well vs. Gengar (Regular Chansey doesn't run another damage-inducing move besides Seismic Toss and Toxic, both of which Gengar is immune to. In a 1v1 situation, the Gengar would not be able to do much but neither would the Chansey.
Gengar effectively only has to worry about Ghost types in this particular meta, with Chansey being the only Normal type and lacking anyway to touch Gengar on a standard set while Gengar always has his Stallbreaking sets to try with. Neither can do much to KO the other, but Gengar has more methods to exploit Chansey's presence like Pain Split sets to recover health, setting Subs on the exit to ease what little prediction trouble it might have had, or potentially tricking Chansey if it's holding a Choice Item to ruin the standard Special Wall completely.
I will also say that while Gengar's loss of Levitate bummed me out early gen, being able to benefit from the Terrains and absorb Toxic Spikes is a pretty nice gain, and Gengar was so frail that the Ground immunity was ultimately more a thing to deter options once in than something to rely on to get him in. The Metagame losing some priority and the overall speed curve receding compared to last gen, as naturally faster mons who checked Gengar like Weavile, Raikou(?) and Tornadus-T have ebbed in usage and he doesn't have trouble with a shift to bulk > speed in a lot of teams thanks to his fantastic coverage. And as I've seen posted in a couple places, Gengar's Cursed Body ability has some niche applications if he's sacced on, say, a Choiced mon or otherwise one-move-reliant opponents like Thousand Arrows Zygarde-50. All the faster threats introduced have to be wary of switching in for frailty and potential weakness in Tapu Koko's case, and even then Pheromosa is playing a dangerous game picking between Ice Beam to hit Gengar or Boosting/Attacking anticipating a switch.
Gengar's a mon that interests me in how he always manages to find a way to work his way back onto the viability rankings. He doesn't even get/need very many new toys to do so, at least none that weren't generalized changes (held items, spectrum split, etc). It's a shakier case than the others, but Gengar strikes me in a manner like Garchomp, Heatran, or Lando-T, who are always going to be somewhere in OU, whether it's on top of it, middling in the center or lurking in the shadows.
I will also say that while Gengar's loss of Levitate bummed me out early gen, being able to benefit from the Terrains and absorb Toxic Spikes is a pretty nice gain, and Gengar was so frail that the Ground immunity was ultimately more a thing to deter options once in than something to rely on to get him in. The Metagame losing some priority and the overall speed curve receding compared to last gen, as naturally faster mons who checked Gengar like Weavile, Raikou(?) and Tornadus-T have ebbed in usage and he doesn't have trouble with a shift to bulk > speed in a lot of teams thanks to his fantastic coverage. And as I've seen posted in a couple places, Gengar's Cursed Body ability has some niche applications if he's sacced on, say, a Choiced mon or otherwise one-move-reliant opponents like Thousand Arrows Zygarde-50. All the faster threats introduced have to be wary of switching in for frailty and potential weakness in Tapu Koko's case, and even then Pheromosa is playing a dangerous game picking between Ice Beam to hit Gengar or Boosting/Attacking anticipating a switch.
Gengar's a mon that interests me in how he always manages to find a way to work his way back onto the viability rankings. He doesn't even get/need very many new toys to do so, at least none that weren't generalized changes (held items, spectrum split, etc). It's a shakier case than the others, but Gengar strikes me in a manner like Garchomp, Heatran, or Lando-T, who are always going to be somewhere in OU, whether it's on top of it, middling in the center or lurking in the shadows.
I was laddering on showdown with a team posted in the Bazaar post and then this happened.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544042019
On turn 11, Trick Room was up so the Ferro went before my Magearna which made sense. Then on turn 12 after TR was gone, Ferro still went first? I didnt understand why :O.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-544042019
On turn 11, Trick Room was up so the Ferro went before my Magearna which made sense. Then on turn 12 after TR was gone, Ferro still went first? I didnt understand why :O.
Trick room has a lower priority than Power Whip (and every other move actually), so it will go last even against slower opponents.
Ah ok. It doesnt say so in the tooltip of the move on Showdown so didnt know that. Thank you :)
Now that Mega Mawile has been released and people are finally experimenting with it on the ladder, which set (and therefore, which EV spread) is considered to be the most efficient at this point of the meta? For all I know, ThunderPunch is considered to be one of its best coverage moves and it always runs max attack Adamant, but it may be different from set to set.
AbrarWasee
formerly Train All
The best set would be in my opinion with Swords Dance, Thunder Punch, Sucker Punch and Play Rough/ Iron Head. The spread would probably like max Attack Adamant, with enough speed to outspeed a relevant Pokemon, for example Celesteela, and the rest in HP. (actually the EV spread is from PokeaimMD ;) )