Why was dd latios viable in BW ou, and why isn't it viable today along with mixmence and mixchomp?
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
First and foremost, all discussion of past generations belongs here. Anyway, DD Latios is "viable" in BW OU, but it is largely niche. You need to use it alongside Magnezone and even then, the opportunity cost of using it is oftentimes not worthwhile given how potent and consistent Specs Latios is in BW OU (not to mention LO variants can be solid and Scarf has more viability than DD even, but Scarf is only seen on Rain tbh). All things considered, DD Latios has never been seen too consistently in competitive play and you should not expect that to change anytime soon given its stats, movepool, and counterplay.
Garchomp and Salamence are built entirely differently than Latios; they both have much more fitting physical attacking niches throughout the generations, but it is worth noting that none of these Pokemon are particularly viable as standout mixed attackers in the SM OU metagame. In BW, mixed sets on both of these are viable, especially Garchomp. Garchomp's mixed viability is largely due to its counterplay often taking significant chunks from LO Draco Meteor and Fire Blast while Earthquake remains its best shot at doing consistent damage to grounded Pokemon such as Tyranitar.
Thank you Finch. Due to my innate desire to use weird sets, should I use chomp or mence as a mixed attacker if I want to use either one in SM?
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Use Garchomp for sure. It can at least double as a Stealth Rock setter and a lure to things like Celesteela. I'd go with Stealth Rock / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earthquake with Max SAtk. An example (albeit, a dated one) of it being used in SM can be found here.
Evs, item and nature?
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
This is what I used then; you really do not need to depart too greatly from this, but if you find a reason to run some Atk over SAtk, then be my guest.
Why is the prumary VR done by mons and not sets? In my opinion its more valuable to evaluate sets instead of mons.
There is a separate VR thread for that, which can be found here.
Is it hard to build a team around Mega Venusaur (given the viability of various psychic breakers)? Does it actually check Mega Mawile? Because if you SD as your opponent switches into Venusaur, you can 2HKO it with play rough or sucker punch. Venusaur outspeeds Mawile, but sucker punch works around that, so the Venusaur player would have to click synthesis and hope that play rough misses or they go for sucker punch. Not to mention that a second SD as you heal makes things worse.
Venusaur also fails to ensure a 2HKO with either earthquake or HP fire. Roar could alleviate this issue, but Venusaur has a bad case of 4MSS. I understand Aggron checks Mawile much better (worst case scenario, it 2HKOs you with +2 fire fang, but you can afford to run roar), but I'm looking to explore options.
Venusaur also fails to ensure a 2HKO with either earthquake or HP fire. Roar could alleviate this issue, but Venusaur has a bad case of 4MSS. I understand Aggron checks Mawile much better (worst case scenario, it 2HKOs you with +2 fire fang, but you can afford to run roar), but I'm looking to explore options.
It is hard to build with Mega Venusaur and that is why it does not receive as much usage as one might expect. It is still a decent Mega Mawile countermeasure, BUT there are ways around it as you allude to. You can still spam Synthesis on predicted Sucker Punch and eventually get it right, but if they're healthy, you're weakened, you're more SDef oriented, they have Iron Head, etc., then you're going to have a hard time.
Anyway, I have personally been working on some anti-meta balance with Giga + Sludge + EQ + Synth Mega Venu, SR TWave Clefable, and Heat Wave Defog Zapdos. The three pair very well because you have Mega Venusaur to check Mega Mawile, which takes advantage of Clefable a ton (large part of why Clefable's viability is dropped and it's oftentimes paired with Magnezone). Heat Wave Zapdos is great glue with these two, too, seeing as it covers Ferrothorn and Spikes in general. Teams like this still need Speed Control, Heatran check, etc..., but if you can get a Mega Venusaur build off to a balanced, worthwhile (compared to other Grasses) start, then it is going to be worthwhile. Otherwise, you probably are just best using something else.
Finchinator
If you can pull it of successfuly, Could you maybe Share ist?
If you can pull it of successfuly, Could you maybe Share ist?
People say that SubRoost Kyurem can use 101 substitutes.
How is that even possible? You get rid of a quarter of your HP for each use. There is absolutely no way you can possibly use 101 substitutes. What are they talking about?
How is that even possible? You get rid of a quarter of your HP for each use. There is absolutely no way you can possibly use 101 substitutes. What are they talking about?
the substitute has 101 hp
this allows it to avoid getting broken by seismic toss etc
What are soft and hard checks/counter?
Different terms used for Pokemon that can defeat other Pokemon. A check is generally seen as something that can consistently 1v1 or revenge kill the opposing Pokemon. For example, Scarf Landorus-Therian is seen as a soft, offensive check to Mega Alakazam. Soft/hard are just rough descriptors for how effective they are in context of games when it comes to actually checking the Pokemon in question. A counter, on the other hand, is a Pokemon that can always switch-in, wall, and either defeat or force out the opposing Pokemon. For example, Chansey is seen as a counter to Mega Alakazam.
Assuming this was in response to my Mega Venusaur post right above, sure. I just tried it out and here is what I came up with.
The concept behind the team is that currently Clefable is limited and less viable than normal because Mega Mawile takes advantage of it a ton, which oftentimes leads to free kills. A lot of Clefable teams have been forced to run Magnezone recently, but a way around this would be making use of it with Mega Venusaur, which is a Pokemon that can function on balanced while also being a good switch-in to common Mega Mawile variants. The main issue with the two is that they both are vulnerable to Heatran, especially if you forgo Earthquake on Mega Venusaur, and if you lack HP Fire on Mega Venusaur, then you are just asking for Ferrothorn to set-up on you all day. Because of this, you either have to use Magnezone for Ferrothorn, which would defeat the purpose of the Mega Venusaur + Clefable core to begin with, or you can use Defog + Heat Wave Zapdos. While I normally dislike non-Pressure Zapdos, this team has various means of handling bulkier teams and this team appreciates the spread of paralysis a lot as you will see throughout. From there, Heatran still stood out as a major inconvenience, so to add some more yellow magic and handle that, I elected to go with a bulkier set-up + Glare Zygarde. This one specifically is EVd to creep SR Toxic Gliscor so it can not get Toxic'd by it and oftentimes beat teams that rely upon it. With SDef Venusaur, you can afford to slight drop in bulk, especially seeing as you are "just winning" a lot of games vs teams that rely on Gliscor as a countermeasure. From there, Ash Greninja gave me a surefire mono-Reuniclus answer/Dark type, Spikes, speed control, and just a generally effective "glue" pokemon. OH I forgot, the Magearna set is sorta another "glue" Pokemon in a sense as it provides an answer to Tapu Lele and Mega Alakazam while also being a bit of a stallbreaker, taking advantage of the paralysis support, and just pushing the offensive issue on a lot of bulkier cores -- overall, the Magearna feels like a near perfect fit here.
The team still is not tested and I worry that with Magearna not being AV and there being no other Steel type, it may be a bit vulnerable to opposing Tapu Lele if they are played aggressively enough, especially if they're Specs or Z. In addition, it may be a tad on the slower side, but paralysis up the ass and Ash Greninja with priority could very well be sufficient. I'm unsure, but here's the concept and it is at very least worth testing!
Finchinator
Thank you very much, its impressive how you create Teams! Im going to Test it as welk cuz it looks awesome.
If you are going to make future changes, I would appreciate it if you post them as well (this sentence is aweful, sry).
Thank you very much, its impressive how you create Teams! Im going to Test it as welk cuz it looks awesome.
If you are going to make future changes, I would appreciate it if you post them as well (this sentence is aweful, sry).
Is foregoing natural cure on Chansey to use psywave (to check Blace) generally a bad idea? If I really want to check Blace with Chansey and keep Natural Cure, I could use Earthquake with some attack investment, but the low pp and poor damage output on most targets makes it a worse attack for chipping.
So, if I want to check Blace with Chansey, what set should I use?
So, if I want to check Blace with Chansey, what set should I use?
You can patch it up with Confide to block Calm Mind boosting, however it's better to have a dedicated check to it like Kommo-o. Natural Cure's really needed - the "immunity" to status is too valuable to give up.
I thought about that, but I've been seeing taunt Blace running around, which stops confide from doing its job. Are there any other good checks bar Kommo-o? I was planning on using one of these Chansey sets on stall, which Kommo-o is hard to fit on (needs wish support, doesn't check much, only utility is stealth rock).
Unfortunately that set kinda just bones a lot of standard stall cores so you are kinda forced to run specific answers for it even if you want to have a good match up vs it. That's the main issue with stall. It tries to cover practically every offensive threat be it standard or niche using only six Pokemon. Depending on what you run, you're bound to be weak to something. Your best bet is to just be "weak" to something instead of outright losing to it if possible. Kommo is indeed one of the better mons on stall to deal with Blace because it has nice utility and checks other breakers like Tran or Tar. There are other more niche options I'm sure but you risk compromising your team structure depending on what you run. You just have to experiment.
ithrowrocksatkids
Banned deucer.
What yall think is the best mega diancie set ive been using the mon a lot lately and mostly been rolling out with this set
Unless im mmaw weak then id go ep over diamond
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
Unless im mmaw weak then id go ep over diamond
Yeah, that's pretty much the go to set, though if you're really Mawile weak, I'd get rid of protect. Diamond storm is needed to threaten Zapdos and prevent it from getting rid of your rocks. Protect is great for scouting, but it can also drain momentum (e.g that lando you used protect on is actually double dance).
ithrowrocksatkids
Banned deucer.
ye ill try that out i really like protect on it but i see your point
You don't need Diamond Storm to keep Stealth Rock up against Zapdos actually.
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 198-234 (51.6 - 61%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
From my experience, Diamond Storm is the easiest move to drop for Earth Power.