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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter Jordy
- Start date
Anything that'd want Clefable or Tyranitar neutralised could be pretty good. Sadly, there isn't really a whole lot of note that Doom Desire targets that FS doesn't already/better, so I'm not really sure what would be best now. It was pretty usable in the Spect meta bc it let Spect bypass Tyranitar; otherwise, Clefable's stats are mediocre enough that FS pressure is usually enough for breakers to bypass it with a neutral STAB/coverage. Missing out on the ability to bypass Toxapex with your delayed damage is quite terrible to be honest.
What team structures can afford not to run SR? only a select few HO?
That, and some teams that feature (multiple) very hazard weak breakers like Choice Band Weavile, Choice Specs Blacephalon, and Choice Specs Volcanion (and Choice Specs Kyurem in the past) can opt to forgo Stealth Rock (and potentially run multiple forms of hazard removal), as they'd rather have no hazards on either side than hazards up on both sides. The talah team used by Star in last year's SPL finals tiebreak is an example.
You can use filters in the builder on Pokemon Showdown, like this:
You can also use the /ds (dex search) function (or /nds for National Dex) in any chat, like this:
Trick Room, which yeah, falls into the category of "select few HO".
Beat Up in its current form has existed since Gen 5. Why is it suddenly now super threatening in singles? Is it just a case of nobody bothering to experiment with the move until now, or what?
Weavile is really good right now, and it and dugtrio are the only 2 users that have ever been viable since it was introduced. In addition, power creep means that Pokémon with high attack stats like Lando-T and Kartana make beat up more powerful.
Another thing is Beat Up's competition with Pursuit in Gens 6 and 7. As strong as Beat Up is in the early game, I think Pursuit would still put up strong competition for the moveslot if it still existed. The ability to massively chunk or even eliminate opponents as they switch seems like it would still be quite strong in the current generation.
I attribute it to a few factors (which themselves might be offshoots of other changes, so consider these just the "one-degree of separation" reasons I can think of.
That wall above could probably be shortened further to "Weavile's the main user and the Metagame is pretty friendly to it and spamming STAB", but I wanted to try and contribute a bit more
- Weavile is by far the best user for this move since the buff, and this gen is Weavile being better than it's ever been relative to the Metagame
- Powercreep has resulted in more Pokemon with decently high Base Attack even as a dump stat, helpful when even the traditionally defined "offensive" playstyles still need some defensive base to work with. Some non-Phys-Attack mons, lure moves like Superpower for Bliss notwithstanding, that still have high stats to illustrate the point (whether or not they synergize with Weavile specifically) include Volcanion (110), Tapu Koko (115), Dragapult (120), or Blacephalon (127).
- Heavy Duty Boots. Besides contributing well to Weavile's Hit and Run approach (though I understand CB is more common for Beat Up Weavile), it also cuts down on passive damage MASSIVELY for a full team, which preserves them longer in a standard game and thus keeps their contribution to BU intact for more of the early-mid game part of the match.
- An uptick in mons that discourage contact with Rocky Helmets or Contact Abilities. Weavile is now played a lot more generally, so it often contends with more mons it wasn't put on the team specifically to cover/assist with as like 2nd/3rd of a Core. A move it can more mindlessly click to punch early holes without cutting into its limited survivability supports the hit-and-run style without being as easy to punish for reckless moves (Ex: even if clicking TA KO's a weakened Ferrothorn, if the Touch damage breaks down Weavile on a Sac it can cost momentum rather than generate it).
- Less competition for the moveslot. Triple Axel giving Weavile a reasonably strong Ice STAB in place of Icicle Crash while Knock Off remains as busted as ever.
- While coverage with Low Kick is still welcome as coverage in the 4th slot, the Viability rankings include a lot more mons who would be reasonably handled by Weavile's STABs alone (Low Kick obviously hits harder but they CAN be dented by Ice/Dark).
- Additionally, the option to play Mindgames with Pursuit trapping is no longer available, which would be another way to capitalize on Weavile threatening targets out. With the threat of Pursuit gone (even on Weavile users that didn't run it), the presence of Weavile will typically push pivoting to the team's standard response/answer rather than trying to call a bluff, at which point a major benefit would be the ability to dent the expected switch-in even when bringing it in is the optimal response.
- Assuming the team sits around Base 100 ATK across their stat lines, Beat Up is essentially a non-Contact Knock Off in the early game which can secure some non-Recoil 2HKO's and thus being very conducive to a "click and punch holes" role.
- tl;dr There are fewer immediate-significant options to shake-up CB Weavile, so Beat Up sees more consideration.
That wall above could probably be shortened further to "Weavile's the main user and the Metagame is pretty friendly to it and spamming STAB", but I wanted to try and contribute a bit more
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This is a bit old school but what's the opinion of a defensive core of mandibuzz, ferrothorn, and rotom-w and what are they weak to in the current meta game? Mandibuzz I'd use for hazard removal, knock off, possibly foul play and whirlwind I believe. Ferro would be used for SR, tanking resisted hits, and using power whip since I struggle hitting bulky waters hard. Rotom-w would be a nice pivot mon that could spread status with t-wave and WoW.
Mandibuzz isn’t a very effective defog user in a metagame filled with SR and Taunt/Toxic Heatran, SR Toxic LandoT, SR Clefable, hazards + Leech Ferro, etc. and you listed four utility moves without Roost, for what it’s worth.
Ferrothorn + Rotom-W should be a solid backbone and can both fit on plenty of teams, especially in the case of Ferrothorn. The main thing is you tend to see more Defog Landorus-T or Defog Tornadus-T even in the metagame on these types. Corviknight is also common, but much less so with Ferrothorn.
Shoot I forgot to include Roost. I guess it'd replace foul play and I'd need to run taunt over something like whirlwind even though all those mons save for ferro outspeed mandi. I guess there's better mons to run though. Thank you Finchinator
I wouldn't recommend dropping Foul Play, it needs it to stop physical set-up sweepers and generally reduce its passivity.
Yea thats why I originally wanted to have whirlwind on there to get the threat out so they couldn't set up. I feel like mandibuzz suffers from 4MSS big time since it wants Roost, Foul Play, Toxic, Knock Off, Defog, and Whirlwind.
the issue is mandibuzz will want to switchin to set-up sweepers, and so whirlwind isn't an effective solution as you take a boosted attack before whirlwinding out, only to loose the next time. with foul play u just kill it there
I had drafted this set a few months ago after the uptick in offensive Heatran and Volcanion usage as a way to catch them off-guard for sweepers of choice (granted, this set needs some support because Magnzone isn't bulky enough to do this job on its own). I was curious about the general opinion of the set.
Bulky Magnezone
Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 68 SpA / 56 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Mirror Coat
Bulky Magnezone
Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 68 SpA / 56 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Mirror Coat
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 272-320 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 272-320 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 270-318 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Magnezone: 273-322 (79.3 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 272-320 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 270-318 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Magnezone: 273-322 (79.3 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
honestly, i have never seen this set, but it seems pretty cool.I had drafted this set a few months ago after the uptick in offensive Heatran and Volcanion usage as a way to catch them off-guard for sweepers of choice (granted, this set needs some support because Magnzone isn't bulky enough to do this job on its own). I was curious about the general opinion of the set.
Bulky Magnezone
Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 68 SpA / 56 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Mirror Coat
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 272-320 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 272-320 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 270-318 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Magnezone: 273-322 (79.3 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
seems like a good set.
it can also switch into (bulky) volc
+1 16 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 236-282 (68.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
ill probably try this later
The issue is you lose the ability to trap Ferrothorn, which is most common now, or even Kartana, which is still great.
You gain added situational benefits for sure. This set has been used on ladder with Volcarona a lot as you can dispose of Heatran (and even Volcanion if the situation plays out as you allude I suppose). It’s a pretty big trade off though as Iron Defense sets have a lot of utility in this current metagame with all of the Ferrothorn and Weavile you see
You gain added situational benefits for sure. This set has been used on ladder with Volcarona a lot as you can dispose of Heatran (and even Volcanion if the situation plays out as you allude I suppose). It’s a pretty big trade off though as Iron Defense sets have a lot of utility in this current metagame with all of the Ferrothorn and Weavile you see
honestly, i didn't think of this
somehow i forgot ferrothorn exists
not using body press thorn means you have to run something like trapperfini if you struggle with ferro, which might be a waste of a valuable teamslot on some teams.
Definitely agreed. That's how a lot of teams that have used AV Magnezone in the past have worked, and why things like Bulky Volcarona, as Finchinator mentioned, are good partners for it and similar sets. Of course, this is still niche and there are other ways of dispatching threats without sacrificing important slots like ID+BP. You lose out on the AV Melm MU as well, and the mixed bulk afforded by slower speed means that faster opposing Magnezone can revenge kill you or remove the bulk that you need to sponge a hit from some of the aforementioned targets of this set.
Roost is mandatory, and Foul play is mandatory, Defog is team dependent and as noted by Finch it loses to common rockers, this is more replaceable than the previous 2, and it typically wants u-turn in the last slot so to maintain momentum.
So to me it's more like Roost Foul Play U-turn and Defog/Toxic/Knock off/WhirlWind
If Landorus-Therian were to be banned to ubers, who would become the most used pokemon be?
lots of things would become more viable.
electrics would become very strong.
Zeraora in particular is especially checked by lando, and it could become extremely strong with either a mixed set (w/ grass knot) or its usual bulk up set.
Other electrics like Tapu Koko would run around freely, with Koko probably running a set with Life Orb (volt switch, thunderbolt, grass knot, dazzling gleam)
Sand as a playstyle could theoretically also become better, considering Dracozolt is checked heavily by lando along with other mons, and without lando there to block bolt beaks and sponge dracos, sand could be strong.
Idk if i answered your question completely, but just my thoughts on what could happen.
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