Projects are slowly being worked out but I'm unaware of whether this one in particular will be happening anytime soon. But as the tier develops you can probably expect this thread to come back eventually, along with others.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers UU Edition
- Thread starter Twilight
- Start date
What kind of role does drapion have and in what kind of set does it translate?
Drapion was most commonly seen as a decent offensive check to Psychic and Ghost types like Chandelure, Polteageist, Gardevoir, Indeedee, that could spread Toxic or Toxic Spikes, use taunt to annoy defensive POkemon, and had access to Knock Off which was uncommon before Pokemon HOME released. A set like this was pretty common,
Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
The speed stat was changeable, depending on what sort of things you wanted it to check. 216 Speed EVs let it check roserade better, but you could also drop it down to 184 EVs to outspeed rotom forms, or 136 EVs to only outspeed Chandelure. Some variants may also have opted to run Poison Jab over one of the two status moves.
Some other sets were used such as Scarf and Swords Dance, but these utility sets were the most common.
In general after Pokemon home however, drapion has lost a lot of it's uniqueness, with Toxic and Knock Off becoming more widespread. This leaves it as more of just a general check to Pokemon like Chandelure and Polteageist that can provide some utility to a team and a toxic spikes absorber / toxic immunity, but would be relegated mainly to more offensive teams as defensive teams have plenty of options as far as Toxic goes and have less need of drapion now.
Why is discussion about Coalossal banned for the viability ranking? I was going through the tier list and was really confused for why Coalossal had it's own tier and was banned from being talked about. Now that I think about it this isn't strictly related to competitive pokemon but I don't know where else I would ask.
The main reason this usually happens is that it's UU by usage, but compared to other pokemon it has no real viable niche and generally just isn't good. The typing and stats of Coalossal isn't very good and the only real reason it may be used is due to having hazards+spin together, but overall there are just other things that can do it better. Overall it's just a really mediocore choice overall in a lot of ways.
Coalossal really sucks. Besides how disappointing its design is visually AND stat-wise after the promising Rolycoly, it's slow and defensive while not having the typing to be able to live common attacks like Earthquake from... anything, Aqua Jet or Liquidation from Golisopod, or most strong Fighting moves. It can be a spinner, but it's weak to stealth rock, which mandates boots when it really wants Leftovers passive recovery. Its offensive stats are too low to cheese teams by coming in on Chandelure's Fire Blast or something even if Coalossal holds a Weakness Policy. It's also very passive so your opponent can often set up in your face while you try to figure out how to contribute to the battle by using it. Maybe you could win if your opponent is taking a shit and they lose by timer? I don't know.
Here are some other UU Pokémon that can do the things that Coalossal does, but better:
- Avalugg has bad typing, but its raw physical bulk is absurd and it has a recovery move, making it a far better spinner.
- Claydol is noob bait but at least has nice defensive typing and Teleport, please let it drop to RU where its talents would be greatly appreciated.
- Forgot Duraludon, but it's quite good and can kill itself with Steel Beam to prevent Rapid Spin and Defog.
- Hippowdon is what you want if you need a stealth rock setter with good bulk, it's not as absurdly tanky as Avalugg but has more utility moves and a better ability.
- (I just closed the tab by accident thank GOD this saved) Mamoswine is a great offensive rocker with really nice STAB and threatening priority.
- Fucking Morpeko is probably a better spinner than that thing.
- Rhyperior is terrifying, no hazard remover or Magic Bounce user wants to switch in so you get to play a guessing game that almost always works in your favor. Do NOT use it to switch into Chandelure!
- Tsareena has kind of bad typing but has good coverage and attack so you can actually threaten shit. My favorite is AV with High Jump Kick, U-Turn, Power Whip, and Rapid Spin; I call it the Weekend Whip because it can jump up, kick back, whip around and spin.
- edit: shit I forgot to mention Bronzong
- Dhelmise is also slow with bad typing, but its Attack stat is crazy!
- Gigalith is the king of RU and is certainly usable here.
- Hitmonlee has a lot of flaws, but its Reckless High Jump Kick is so unholy that it doesn't really matter. It's not a good spinner at all, but I just wanted to point out that its Choice Banded HJK hits harder than Mega Medicham's.
- Mr. Rime is really hard to fit on a team, but he has the coverage to hit almost everything in the tier super effectively and has an assload of utility moves that make him a really fun niche pick. If you're really concerned about him losing to Rhyperior, Grass Knot is a 120 BP move against it and kind of just blows it up on the switch.
- Mudsdale is just a worse Hippowdon with a slightly better ability, but it's still better than Coalossal.
- Runerigus can set hazards and spinblock at the same time!
Last edited:
How dare u to dont mention Bronzong as a viable SR setter?
Analyses were in progress before the recent tier shifts happened. They are currently being postponed until the meta stabilizes a bit more then we will be continuing with them.
So I'm beginning to play pokémon more competitively, and I'm pretty new to this. I can't seem to use my Chandelure effectively/correctly because it will either be out speeded or OHKO'd. I need help understanding a few things.
A) How would trick + choice scarf be useful and/or how do I use it effectively?
B) Would it be better to use choice specs (and trick)?
C) What does it mean to be a wall breaker?
D) Would there be any better pokemon for wall breaking?
A) How would trick + choice scarf be useful and/or how do I use it effectively?
B) Would it be better to use choice specs (and trick)?
C) What does it mean to be a wall breaker?
D) Would there be any better pokemon for wall breaking?
The idea behind tricking a choice scarf is that you can cripple walls that you're unable to break past. For example, Umbreon walls you forever, but if you trick it a scarf it becomes very difficult for it to perform its job. Wish and toxic are not good moves to be locked into.
You can use trick with specs, too. It can be a little riskier because you could accidentally give a special attacker the specs and turn it into even more of a threat. But I think chandelure should run trick on any choiced set.
A wall breaker is a mon that can put immediate pressure on walls, threatening to OHKO/2HKO a lot of stuff usually. This is in contrast to a sweeper, which will have lower atk/spatk stats, but higher speed and access to a boosting move, requiring time to set up. Chandelure is a great breaker, but it's all team dependent on which wall breaker suits you best.
I would suggest you just use the standard spread found here for its more common sets. If you want a more custom spread I suggest you try using the damage calculator and check what you want it to avoid/live but be aware this Pokemon is still dependant on its Speed and Atk investment. Personally I would recommend not using AV anyways because it really doesn't help it in a lot of matchups e.g. It can still check the Rotom forms well enough without it and Lum Berry makes it even easier with avoiding any burns. Inteleon still 2HKOs you with Ice Beam and 3HKOs with Hydro Pump through AV, so the only thing it really helps with is taking a +2 Psychic from Celebi and dropping it with U-turn or easing the Helio matchup. There aren't many SpA users that don't OHKO or 2HKO Tsareena even with an AV, e.g. Specs Gard, LO Reuni, Noivern, Necrozma etc. In most matchups AV won't make a significant enough difference compared to the value Heavy-Duty Boots or Lum Berry can provide instead.
What is the Competitive Milotic set?? I can only find the defensive Marvel Scale one posted anywhere.
It's the same set as Marvel Scale but with Competitive. There is no functional difference in terms of the sets, except Marvel Scale likes switching into Scald and Competitive likes switching in to Sticky Web. Realistically, the tier's Intimidate users won't come in on Milotic anyway and there is generally better counterplay to Sticky Web than Competitive Milotic, so Competitive is generally viewed as worse than Marvel Scale for that reason. Milotic really doesn't want to run offensive sets because its bulk investment is heavily necessary to check foes like Incineroar and Darmanitan.
It's generally not worth it because of the lost recovery as you stated, giving large amounts of unecessary chip that makes it harder to check some special attackers and makes you easy to wear down with hazards + doubles. It does however give one slight benefit in making you much more protected from being Toxic'd however.
Basically just use leftovers because the passive recovery is super important, and you always have cleric options like Sylveon to remove Toxic if you need to.
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
Rosa there you go on third post :
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/underused-policy-resource-tournament-project-guide.3657304/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/underused-policy-resource-tournament-project-guide.3657304/
Hello complete newbie here looking for a sample team with Lucario in it ... in order to climb the low ladder
After hearing that it's better to start with a good team made by others when you don't know how to team building I'm here for that :/
I've been looking in the forum but couldn't find any ...
Preference for Hyper Offenses ones, but any would do :/
After hearing that it's better to start with a good team made by others when you don't know how to team building I'm here for that :/
I've been looking in the forum but couldn't find any ...
Preference for Hyper Offenses ones, but any would do :/
Hmmm... Maybe a suicide lead like Ribombee to set up Sticky Web to help patch up Lucario's 90 speed and pair it with other attack with middling speed like Mamoswine and Chandelure would be a good start
EDIT: Forgot that Mamo was banned, but there's still a lot of mons in the 80s to 90s speed
Last edited:
Hey thanks for the answer, Hmm is 90 speed that bad ? I thought that priority move would have been enough. But I could start with that as a base ty :)
Edit : just thought that I'd need others mons to set up stealth rocks.. isn't that too slow for HO team ? Or can I just not use them x) ?
Edit : just thought that I'd need others mons to set up stealth rocks.. isn't that too slow for HO team ? Or can I just not use them x) ?
Last edited:
Is not bad per say, but it would allow them to outspeed faster mons without needed to use a Choice Scarf so they can use other items.
Priority is still good since Flying-types, pokemons with Levitate or Clear Body are unaffected by Sticky Web. This also means that Rocks are a good to have since they punish and weaken these threats. Cobalion seems like a nice lead between its good speed and Taunt
For example, Braviary and Chandelure both have 80 speed so they benefict from Sticky Web and they also can deter hazard removal (Braviary can deter Defog via Defiant and Chandelure blocks Rapid Spin)
Also Braviary can switch into Ground attacks for both and into Ghost moves for Chandelure, while Chandelure can switch into Fighting- and Fire-types for Lucario. In return Lucario deals with Dark- and Rock-types
Priority is still good since Flying-types, pokemons with Levitate or Clear Body are unaffected by Sticky Web. This also means that Rocks are a good to have since they punish and weaken these threats. Cobalion seems like a nice lead between its good speed and Taunt
For example, Braviary and Chandelure both have 80 speed so they benefict from Sticky Web and they also can deter hazard removal (Braviary can deter Defog via Defiant and Chandelure blocks Rapid Spin)
Also Braviary can switch into Ground attacks for both and into Ghost moves for Chandelure, while Chandelure can switch into Fighting- and Fire-types for Lucario. In return Lucario deals with Dark- and Rock-types
Last edited:
Thank you so much :) Lot of useful Infos I see the reasoning and will try to follow that. Chandellure pairs up nicely with Lucario idd
I've more than I need to start now and elaborate now :)