Singles Break that Core (Week 17: Hippowdon + Lucario + Dragonite) ~ VOTING (post #395)

edit: I was hoping someone would nominate Cofagrigus. That thing is a beast against these guys
I suppose 'cause Cofagrigus is not so used. Ok, the usage is not important, but anyway people could forget the existence of Cofa', even if it's perfect for this core, bulky, Will-O-Wisp and able to delete Kangaskhan's strong point.
 
Are we still allowed to vote if we haven't put up a nomination? Disregard this vote if I'm not allowed since I forgot to nominate something myself

Voting for Demantoid. M-Slowbro handles both Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp really well after an Iron Defense, and also checks Talonflame, which is a popular third mon with this core iirc. After an Iron Defense M-Slowbro pretty much walls anything that is physically oriented and is an underused poke in my opinion (I can see why, things like Gengar and Serperior look like they'd be troublesome to Mega Bro and both are pretty common).
 
i vote for cant say because Avalugg does not die to either of those Mons unless they carry a special fire move. Also, iron defense recover sturdy and stab avalanche is great. This thing will also be able to take on tflame which is an integral part of Khan Chomp units though it may need a rock move if it learns one idk rock tomb maybe to eventually slow the tflame down so recover and iron defense can work before getting taunted and stalled out vs stallbreaker variants. (idk if it learns rock tomb) icy wind can work too tho especially since it can stop the ddancer speed boosts from outspeeding potential teammates of yours.
This thing also does not take a mega slot like mega bro and is not 2hkod by double-edge the way cress and suicune usually are though rock slide variants leave a lot to be desired. But pretty much anything can also be flinched to death with rock slide anyway so w/e
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Are we still allowed to vote if we haven't put up a nomination? Disregard this vote if I'm not allowed since I forgot to nominate something myself
Anyone can vote :)

We currently have a 3-way tie. Anyone up to break it?
 
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Jibaku

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A tough tie to break but I voted for Demantoid as the other two had other issues:

1) Mega Sableye is very close to this but won't enjoy Sub or Lum SD Garchomp. Choice Band is pretty annoying too. Lack of immunity vs Garchomp hurts it as 50/125 isn't the bulkiest thing in the world.

(Obligatory mention of WoW's accuracy).

2) Avalugg gets cheesed by Fire Blast Kangaskhan
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Demantoid and his Mega Slowbro nomination is this week's winner!
It's no surprise that the bulkiest physical wall in the game can take care of those two (mainly) physical attackers. Now let's try to break a core consisting of a physical AND special attacker: Mega Blaziken and Thundurus! Both of these Pokemon cover each others' weaknesses nicely, and Thundurus can even support Blaziken by nullifying Thunder Waves and crippling the opponents' team to give Mega Blaziken an easier time to sweep.

Happy posting!
 

Jibaku

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Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 180 SpA / 36 SpD
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Scald

Quick calcs here:
Blaziken HJK deals 42-50%. It can only 2HKO if it rolls max twice in a row (or crits)
Thundurus LO HP Ice deals 42-50%. Like Blaziken, it needs 2 max rolls to KO

Choice Specs Sludge Bomb deals 156 damage minimum vs 100 Special Defense. Uninvested, Blaziken and Thundurus have 155 and 154 HP, respectively.
Choice Specs Draco Meteor deals 226 damage minimum, easily OHKOing max HP Thundurus, and may even OHKO specially defensive ones.
If Knocked Off, unboosted Draco Meteor deals 152-180 damage, which is still often an OHKO.

Dragalge being slow to begin with also means it's not as bothered by Thunder Wave from Thundurus.
 
Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Slack Off
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb

For starters, it's a Ground type, so it can't be Thunder Waved. HJK from Mega Blaziken does about half to Hippowdon on a max roll. HPIce from LO Thundurus does even less. It can Yawn to put Blaziken and Thundurus to sleep. Rocky Helmet + Sand wears them down after sleep. Rock Tomb can hit Blaziken neutrally and Thundurus for super-effective.
 


Hey guys, thought I'd nominate my check to Blaziken and Thundurus on my rain team, Mega Swampert!

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect/ Superpower/ Rain Dance/ Endeavour/ Yawn/ Power-up Punch

So this Swampert is a check to this core and not a counter as unfortunately Blaze's High Jump Kick is a 2hko meaning it cannot switch in on a HJK, however it can switch into 99.99%* of Thundurus' moves and proceed to 2hko and can switch into Blaze's Flare Blitz/ coverage and OhKo.

Some calcs Vs Blaze

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Mega Swampert: 130-154 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Mega Swampert: 60-71 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 63.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 252-296 (161.5 - 189.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Thundurus
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 62-73 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 89.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 123-145 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO**
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 108 Def Thundurus: 122-144 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 108 Def Thundurus in Rain: 145-172 (78.3 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 138-164 (89.6 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus in Rain: 165-195 (107.1 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Should Rain already be present, Swampert acts as a hard check to both of these mons, outspeeding Thundurus should it carry grass knot, as well as outspeeding Blaziken for 2 turns.

Swampert is a really cool mon atm in rain outspeeding and Ohkoing and 2hkoing a lot of top tier threats such as Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus, Aegislash, Thundurus, Mega Gengar, Talonflame, Mega Lopunny, Tyranitar and Mamoswine to name a few.

The last moveslot is very customisable- Protect ensures you get your mega off in rain*** as well as messes with HJK shenanigans. Superpower does a number on Kang and Mega Gyara, Rain Dance for usage on non rain teams to give yourself a pseudo agility or if you need a back up setter, Endeavour as a last ditch effort to chip Hp before you go down for team mates, Yawn to shuffle and screw over boosting sweepers and lastly power up punch to boost your attack (although this is probably its weakest option)

All in all, although not a hardcore counter to these mons, it acts as a very strong check to this core and others. (Hippo, Lucario, Dragonite anyone? And with rain up takes a dent out of last weeks Garchomp/ Kang core) Swampert serves as a very good meta call atm (imo) and is criminally underused. Whether on a designated rain team or just chillin on his own, Mega Roids is a cool mon I encourage you to try :pimp:

*Doesn't like Grass Knot
** In a scenario where Thundurus nasty plots on the switch, several scenarios may play out- Should rain be up, swampert wins everytime. If Swampert carries rain dance, it can set up it's own manual rain, and OhKo with waterfall turn 3. Should no rain be present, Focus Blast must hit twice in a row, meaning a 51% chance Swampert comes out on top.
*** Although sometimes its dangerous wasting precious rain turns
 

Latias (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Ice Beam / Tailwind

I was reminding a post where Jibaku explained what are the notable underused megas. Latias there was, and yeah, she's very awesome. Dragon/Psychic type allows Latias to endure every Blaziken's and Thundurus' moves, or anyway to resist to the OHKO and then she can kill them with a STAB. What to say? Draco Meteor and Psyshock are the STABs and they hit hard the core, Roost is for recovering and Ice beam for a great coverage against flying-type, or use Tailwind, a great idea for laughing in front of M-Blaziken when it uses protect.

Now let's check the calcs, STABs and Other Moves:
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 56-66 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 61-72 (39.3 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 82-98 (52.9 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 174-206 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latias: 62-75 (40 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latias: 122-146 (78.7 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latias: 43-51 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 141-166 (90.9 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Latias Ice Beam vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus: 130-154 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
(Bulky Thundurus set took from a Japanese Team)

Spit on Salamence, the real Dragon Jet is Latias.
 
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Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Filler/Encore
Mega Alakazam is an interesting option that mainly functions because of the great abilities it copies off Blaziken and Thundurus. Psychic is STAB and kills Blaziken while 2HKOing most Thundurus. Protect serves two purposes: the first is to allow Alakazam to copy Thundurus' Prankster and scout if it will go for T-wave; the second is to allow Alakazam to copy and get a Speed Boost from Blaziken when switching in. Timid was chosen because it allows +1 Mega Alakazam to outspeed +2 Adamant Blaziken (jolly outspeeds you by one point). Substitute allows Alakazam to avoid a T-wave after copying Prankster and also allows Alakazam to Sub on Sucker Punches. Substitute is also good for when Blaziken switches into you and Protects to get a Speed Boost. The last move is mostly for a coverage move (Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Dazzling Gleam) but Encore is an interesting option to lock Thundurus into T-wave after a sub. Can also serve the purpose of Encoring Blaziken into Protect along with status moves from other pokes like Cresselia. The last 4 evs were put into Special Defense to have a greater chance for a substitute to survive an Ice Beam from 4 SpA Cresselia. Obviously though Alakazam can't switch into attacks from either of these.
  • 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Alakazam: 78-93 (60 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Alakazam: 101-121 (77.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 115-136 (74.1 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus: 115-136 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
  • 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thundurus: 79-94 (42.4 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
  • 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blaziken: 230-272 (148.3 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

More of a check of course, can't really switch in to thundurus but when it has multiscale still in tact it can come in. It can DD up to outspeed thund and ko almost any variant at +1, it resists both of blazikens stabs and can ohko with eq. Lum Berry helps against twave from thund too.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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voting for Jibaku. Dragalge is cool. Pretty reliable as it doesnt get hurt by thund's common coverage moves outside tbolt/ice. And plus not being totally cripples by twave is great
 
I vote for Melon Vodka because Mega Latias is one of few dragons that can eat up a Hidden Power Ice from Thundurus as well as any other move it would go for as well as knock off from any Blaziken and it can chucka chuckaboomboom in return!

edit: I thought voting would be a quick liner I can get away with cant say

also, I used dragalge before and a plus 2 hjk was gg after rocks. That said, melon's latias build ain't optimal but meh I have no explanation for alakazam -_-
 
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cant say

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lol GroudonEmpire are you for real?

I'm really not sure who to vote for, and I didn't nominate anything since I couldn't think of anything that really dominated both of these guys.. I was thinking of doing a slow, bulky physical attacking Mega Altaria since you can either use Pixilate-boosted Facade to take advantage of Thunder Wave, or you can go the standard set and use Heal Bell to get rid of it.. It also tanks Blaze's moves really well so it can Roost off the damage (unless it goes for a SD, then you should just kill it).

As for my vote, I honestly have no idea who to go with as none of these really stand out to me at all. Hippowdon does laughable damage to Blaziken with Rock Tomb but it needs it for Thundurus, Mega Swampert dies to Grass Knot, Mega Latias really doesn't like Thunder Wave so it's pretty dead weight once that happens, Mega Alakazam can't switch in on either of these guys since Blaziken will just OHKO it and Thund will probably T-wave it (at least that's my go-to when I predict an incoming switch) which means it'll get out-Prankstered, and Speed Boost doesn't help against Thund / Prankster doesn't help against Blaziken.. Lum Dragonite is pretty cool but it can't switch in as it's Multiscale will get broken meaning it can't take a Hidden Power Ice.. So by the process of elimination I'm gonna have to vote for Jibaku's Dragalge! Adaptability + Specs Draco Meteor is pretty scary (will hurt a lot of things so it isn't good for just Blaze+Thund) and it can tank anything that these two guys can throw at it.
 

bobochan

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Voting for Jibaku and his Dragalge. Both Mega Alakazam and Dragonite are better options but this is about being able to manually switch in. Alakazam pretty much dies to anything from Blaziken and Dragonite wouldn't be able to freely setup on anything after losing Lum or Scale since both of these mons in the core like to carry HP Ice. In practice though, there are easier ways to deal with this core since you're given the entire team and may play accordingly :3 one example is using Mega Alakazam after something faints.
 
Voting for Jibaku. I'd like to mention that most Blaziken teams have a SR setter, and if it wasn't for that I would've voted for NOVED since Dragonite becomes a much more shaky check to both of these two when Multiscale is gone (Not trying to put you down or anything, sorry if it looks like that). Dragalge destroys this core single-handedly very reliably when at full health and not a lot of things like switching into a Specs Adaptability Draco Meteor or Sludge Bomb.
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
Voting for Jibaku. It is the only one that isn't 2hkoed by any of their common moves (Grass Knot actually has like 20% usage), can kill them easily in return, and isn't effected by T-Wave too much.
 
Also voting for Jibaku- a lot of revenge killers/ checks posted but dragalge is the only Mon that can switch in and win 99% of the time (minus swagger/ paralysis hax)

M-Latias would have taken it for me had the rest talk set been posted, but this particular Latias really dislikes paralysis which is what thundurus will do 99% of the time
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Jibaku wins week 2 of Break that Core with his Choice Specs Dragalge nomination! I should really look into getting one of those...

Week 3 is going to be one of the best weather duos in the game: Hippowdon and Mega Charizard Y! Both of them reset each other's weather upon switch-in, allowing them to utilize their weather advantage for as long as possible. They also have great type synergy as Mega Charizard Y's weakness to Rock and Electric is pretty much nullified by Hippowdon and Hippowdon's weakness to Water, Grass, and Ice can be dealt with by Charizard. It also helps that Charizard's weaker physical defense is well covered by Hippowdon's immense bulk.



Happy posting!
 
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 224-265 (104.1 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 174-205 (113.7 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

its a check tho, cant switch in but demolishes both. you could switch in on hippo potentially on predicted rocks or eq. rock tomb is a thing but a lot dont run it.
 


Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Crunch

Mega Gyarados particularly likes to set up on this core, especially when Hippo comes first. Put up a sub to avoid Yawn from Hippo and set up before Mega Evolving, since most don't carry Rock Tomb like NOVED said, and they usually only carry EQ as an attacking move. If facing Mega Charizard Y first, just DD once in regular form if you expect a solar beam from the opposing Mega Charizard Y and mega evolve to OHKO with Crunch. Otherwise, just mega evolve and set up against Zard Y. OHKOing Hippo with Waterfall will take 2 DDs, so if you get the opportunity to set up two go ahead.

vs Hippo:

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 218-260 (101.3 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 4 Atk Hippowdon Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 42-50 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- Miniscule chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage
4 Atk Hippowdon Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 62-74 (36.4 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 58-70 (34.1 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

vs Zard Y:

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 157-186 (102.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Gyarados in Sun: 71-84 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Mega Gyarados: 112-134 (65.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Mega Gyarados in Sun: 69-81 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 

bobochan

slow mo my bobo
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Nominating Chansey as a counter against this core.
Neither mons learns Knock Off or Taunt, giving Chansey the ability to switch into anything and out stall them with Toxic.
Doesn't mind Yawn too much thanks to Natural Cure.

Calcs

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 84-100 (25.8-30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 88-105 (27 - 32.3%) -- 66.8% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage
 

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