Singles Break that Core (Week 17: Hippowdon + Lucario + Dragonite) ~ VOTING (post #395)

[cant say]

^^ damn that was gonna be my suggestion. I've been using Chansey myself a lot lately and I love it. I really don't have anything else so may as well play weather wars lol

Politoed @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Icy Wind
- Substitute
- Rain Dance / Perish Song / Encore / Sleep Talk

So yeah you just fight weather with weather. Can switch into anything that Zard-Y can throw at it and can either set up a Sub on the switch or straight up attack. Scald in rain will OHKO Zard and do 70-80% to Hippowdon in the sand so neither are safe if you bring it in on Zard. Bringing it in on Hippowdon can be a little tougher since you can take like 40% from an Earthquake or take a Yawn (or get Roared out), but it's still a positive matchup.

Hydro Pump is an option for being able to OHKO Hippowdon in sand and can 2HKO Zard in the sun (but it's like a 30% chance so not really reliable, esp. when factoring in accuracy). Ice Beam is coverage and Icy Wind provides speed control, Sub is cool for when you come in on Zard and expect a switch out since it lets you get an Ice Beam / Icy Wind off against Thundurus or Perish Song against Suicune or something.

 

[ethan06]

Delphox @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Fire Blast

Time for something more unorthodox: Life Orb Delphox is capable of taking any hit from Charizard and outspeeding and 2HKOing with Psyshock. Grass Knot handily takes care of physically defensive Hippowdon, while specially defensive variants (which don't exist anyway) take about 70%. What's fun about this one is that Charizard can't switch in on Fire Blast due to the boost from its own sun, easily putting it in range of a Psyshock KO. Calcs speak better than I ever will so here:

252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 99-118 (64.7 - 77.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 74-88 (48.3 - 57.5%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Delphox in Sun: 96-113 (64 - 75.3%)
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 213-252 (99 - 117.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 146-172 (67.9 - 80%)

 

[Feliburn]

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Just like NOVED's thundurus, sceptile can't really switch into either of the mons (except for maybe hippo's EQ which still does a considerate ammount w/o investment), but it outspeeds both and easily OHKOs them, sometimes offense is the best defense!

• 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 314-372 (146 - 173%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 4 Atk Mega Sceptile Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 156-184 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Flamedood]

Nominating Venusaur,

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Rock
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder/ Earthquake

Similar to the Sceptile posted above, Venusaur relies on outspeeding and Ohkoing this core however I believe Venusaur has several advantages over Sceptile-It does not require taking up a mega slot, has a stronger neutral stab (sludge bomb vs dragon pulse), can run sleep powder for added team support and it can achieve a guaranteed Ohko on 252/252 Sp Def Hippo without lowering its special attack. Venusaur also outspeeds Charizard at -1 should it get hit by Hippo's rock tomb aswell. Grass Knot over Giga Drain as it hits harder against most relevant threats such as Hippo, TTar and Suicune. Hidden Power Rock for Zard and Talonflame switch ins. Venusaur works extremely well both against opposing Zard Y using their sun against them to sleep/ sweep the rest of their team or with your own Zard Y as sun support. Wall of calcs below showing how Venusaur fairs both against the core and against other mons in the meta

252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 218-257 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 146-177 (94.8 - 114.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 182-218 (87.9 - 105.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 125-148 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 164-195 (93.1 - 110.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0- Atk Life Orb Venusaur Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 146-172 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 87-105 (55.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Jibaku]

Something less creative but does its job pretty well

Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Surf
- Trick / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt

With resistance to Fire and decent Special Defense, Latios can survive a hit from Mega Charizard Y's attack (warning: Zard's STABs/HP Ice will 2HKO Latios. Damage from Timid ZardY Fire Blast/HP Ice is ~48-57% and Overheat is 57-68%. Multiply by 10% for Modest), and return fire with Draco Meteor, which will often OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 147-174 (96 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

And of course, to the other mon, whom Latios shouldn't have too much difficulty switching into

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 217-256 (100.9 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 202-238 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 151-178 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This makes things a bit complicated for the defending team to answer, as 3 of Latios' moves can either destroy it or leave a severe dent, giving Latios a lot of freedom as to what move he would like to use.

Bonus calc:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 136-162 (63.2 - 75.3%)

 

[teamjohto]

Don't know if a two-pokemon combo is allowed, but it's one of my favorite lure strategies that's just excels at ripping apart this core.

If not, then just disregard.

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry/Leftovers

Modest Nature

252 HP/252 SpAtk/4 Def

Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt/Volt Switch
Will-o-Wisp
Pain Split

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest/Choice Scarf

Adamant Nature
Sand Stream Ability
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd

Rock Slide/Stone Edge
Earthquake
Crunch/Payback
Superpower

The strategy here is to bait Zard-Y into using the common Solar Beam on Rotom-W, having your opponent think it's a quick kill, then switch into Tyranitar and put out the Sun, leaving Zard-Y to charge for that turn, making him unable to switch out for that turn due to the Solar Beam charge.

T-tar eats the hit, no real damage done there.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 36-44 (17.3 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Since Zard-Y is effectively trapped for that turn, just kill it with a Rock Slide, or Stone Edge if you're feeling like rolling the accuracy dice.

or if you're going with Scarf, you can just bop him before he can even dish out his attack.

After that, Rotom-W just laughs at any of the Hippo's attempts to overcome him, and you can dispatch it from there, Only full special defensive hippowdons are gonna be 2HKO'd by Rotom, otherwise:

252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 234-276 (108.8 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[DragonWhale]

Don't know if a two-pokemon combo is allowed, but it's one of my favorite lure strategies that's just excels at ripping apart this core.

Two pokemon combo nominations are allowed.

 

[Demantoid]

Goodra @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 124 Def / 20 SpA / 28 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Ice Beam
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Rest​

Goodra's massive special defense and dragon typing allows it to be one of the few pokemon that can switch into Charizard Y. The best move Charizard Y can throw at it is Dragon Pulse (not a top 10 move currently but I believe it has been before) which only has a 6.3% chance to 2HKO. Hippowdon's Earthquakes still do a lot of damage but with Rest, Ice Beam will be able to kill it first. The EV spread allows an OHKO onto some Charizard Ys and 2HKO onto some Hippowdon, survives two Dragon Pulses from modest Charizard most of the time, and the rest was dumped into defense. The choice of ability doesn't matter very much for this core but Sap Sipper boost off of Solarbeam allows an OHKO onto any Charizard, but Gooey is better against Kangaskhan. Rest and Chesto Berry was chosen to keep Goodra healthy and allow Goodra to beat specially bulky Hippowdons and comfortably switch into Yawn. The dragon move is mostly for STAB but Ice Beam + Draco does more damage to Hippowdon than two Ice Beams. Goodra also doesn't care about switching into Flame Charge Charizard Y.

Offensive

• 84 Atk Goodra Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 156-184 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 20+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 108-128 (50.2 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 20+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 115-136 (53.4 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 20+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 74-88 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Defensive

• 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Goodra in Sun: 57-67 (28.9 - 34%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO
  
• 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Goodra: 78-94 (39.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
• 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Goodra: 86-102 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
  
• 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Goodra: 70-84 (35.5 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

How common is this core? I had always thought it was Charizard X that was Hippowdon's most common partner because Hippo helps it sweep like Dragonite.

 

[NOVED]

How common is this core? I had always thought it was Charizard X that was Hippowdon's most common partner because Hippo helps it sweep like Dragonite.​

​

Yeah this is what i thought too. Ive seen a good amount of zard x + hippo teams.

 

[Hulavuta]

Charizard-Y with Hippowdon is quite a common core, I've used it often and others have used and seen it too. Charizard-X with Hippowdon might be common too, but it is definitely not the only one.

 

[DragonWhale]

Both zard forms are pretty common with hippo. At first I thought about keeping zard non-mega this week to take into account both forms, but I've been stating mega forms until now so I got rid of that idea. But yeah thanks for that input, I think I'll not mention megas in the future to keep the core as versatile as possible (and it's what you see in team preview anyway).

 

[Qsa]

Serperior @ Life Orb

Ability: Contrary

Nature: Modest
Level: 50

EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd

-Leaf Storm
-HP Rock
-Protect
-Giga Drain

This is a pretty obvious Serperior set. Leaf Storm+ contrary puts Serperior at +2, meaning it can OHKO Charizard Y with HP Rock and can already OHKO Hippowdon with a Leaf Storm. Even if Zard Y switches in to a leaf storm, Serperior still gets the boost so it can OHKO next turn and outspeed. Serperior is rather fragile, however, and can't take any hits from Zard Y (and very few from Hippowdon) so it is best to lead against this duo. Serperior really cannot switch as it needs one Leaf Storm to kill this pair, but it does so well. Giga Drain serves to recover lost HP n either set, and protect scouts moves on hippo and increases survivability.

Calcs:
252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 252-299 (117.2 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 125-151 (81.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 244-291 (159.4 - 190.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[cant say]

View attachment 50719
Serperior @ Life Orb

Ability: Contrary

Nature: Modest
Level: 50

EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd

-Leaf Storm
-HP Rock
-Protect
-Giga Drain

This is a pretty obvious Serperior set. Leaf Storm+ contrary puts Serperior at +2, meaning it can OHKO Charizard Y with HP Rock and can already OHKO Hippowdon with a Leaf Storm. Even if Zard Y switches in to a leaf storm, Serperior still gets the boost so it can OHKO next turn and outspeed. Serperior is rather fragile, however, and can't take any hits from Zard Y (and very few from Hippowdon) so it is best to lead against this duo. Serperior really cannot switch as it needs one Leaf Storm to kill this pair, but it does so well. Giga Drain serves to recover lost HP n either set, and protect scouts moves on hippo and increases survivability.

Calcs:
252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 252-299 (117.2 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 125-151 (81.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 244-291 (159.4 - 190.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As a Serperior fanboy I love to see any use for it, but I can't help but nitpick this. Modest can't be used since Timid is used twice as much as Modest on Charizard-Y so you need to make sure you outspeed it. In fact, outspeeding the base 100 speed tier + Garchomp is a huge boon for Serp which is why Timid is used on a whopping 99.6% of Serp!

Also, since HP Rock requires an IV spread of 31/x/30/31/30/30 you shouldn't put 252 into Serp's speed since 248 makes the same stat. I would go with 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 248 Spe since that optimises the speed and makes the SpD go up a point to make Download P2 get an attack boost

 

[Qsa]

I usually run timid myself but found that modest picked up more damage, however that was when I was experimenting with non LO sets (focus sash mainly). Also the HP rock tips were helpful. Thanks for the constructive criticism!

 

[DragonWhale]

Voting time! Out of the many nominations we received this week, which do you think is the best way to beat this weather-based core? Remember to put your votes in bold.

NOVED : Life Orb Thundurus
GateCreeper : Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados
bobochan : Chansey
cant say : Leftovers Politoed
ethan06 : Life Orb Delphox
Feliburn : Rock Slide Mega Sceptile
Flamedood : Sun HP Rock Venusaur
Jibaku : Choice Specs Latios
teamjohto : Rotom-W + Tyranitar bait combo
Demantoid : Resto Chesto Goodra
Qsa : Life Orb HP Rock Serperior

My vote goes to NOVED. Simple and straightforward, you can just outspeed and OHKO the threats in front of you. Though it does struggle to switch in against Charizard like NOVED said. It also has the added bonus to paralyze the third pokemon aside from this core, which can help a lot.

 

[cant say]

in case you couldn't guess based on my nomination post, I'm voting for bobochan's Chansey. can manually switch into both of these guys with its massive bulk (one of the only Pokemon nominated that can stomach a CharY Fire Blast in the sun on the swich) and Toxic-stall them to death.

 

[PikachuCandyツ]

I'm voting for NOVED's Life Orb Thunderus. This thing just straight up outspeeds and OHKOs both of them with ease and no set up. Nothing much else to say other than a great set and pokemon.

 

[bobochan]

Voting for NOVED and his Thundurus (for reasons already stated above).
Doesn't require a mega slot to be effective and keeps the opponent guessing with the set it could be running.
In case where the Charizard turns out to be the X variant, can still priority Thunder Wave after DD.
Always gotta watch out for potential SwagPlay from this top tier threat :3

 

[NOVED]

Jibaku
Latios can switch into both pretty well and is pretty hard to switch into

 

[GateCreeper]

Voting for NOVED. Not really much to say here. Doesn't cost a mega slot, can switch into Hippo pretty well, and destroys the core with two moves easily. Thundurus is also a pokemon that isn't hard to fit onto teams just because of how versatile and good it is.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

I'm voting for teamjohto's bait core of Rotom-W and Tyranitar, very creative combo and works well. Plus Rotom-W and TTar are also fun to use and are pretty good Pokemon in the metagame at the moment.

 

[Flamedood]

Voting for can't say as it can switch in on the pair and either force them out or ko generating offensive pressure and changing the weather for your own side of the field. Sub I think is an excellent option as can't say noted, being able to ice beam thundurus and such. GateCreepers gyarados was a close second for me as Gyarados can use this core to set up its own win condition, however I think can't says' toed is more of a hard check/ counter

 

[teamjohto]

Have to throw my vote in for GrateKeeper.

the Dragon Dance boosting essentially cancels out the sun's diminishing effect on water so you're free to go to town on Zard-Y regardless. if you're not up for playing risks, +1 Crunch just OKHO's him anyway, and the Hippo just folds to a boosted waterfall from there.

 

[DragonWhale]

NOVED takes this week with his Life Orb Thundurus nomination! The weather means nothing in front of such speed and coverage.

Before I continue, I would like to announce that cores from now on will not have the mega revealed in order to keep a greater number of possibilities to consider. Of course Pokemon like Kangaskhan and Mawile are almost guaranteed to be a mega evolution, but for Pokemon like Gyarados or Tyranitar it's important to note both mega and non-mega scenarios, and both forms in the case of Charizard.

This week's core is going to be focused on a pair of deadly setup sweepers. One increases special attack and special defense, the other increases attack and lowers yours, and both of them do so while increase speed.

Yep, Volcarona and Salamence. Both of them have really high BST, one of them can increase it even further by mega evolving, and both have great coverage to back up their offensive presence. How will you stop these two from tearing your team apart, especially if they manage to set up? Happy posting!

 

[teamjohto]

Greninja @ Life Orb
Naive nature
68 Atk/188 SAtk/252 Spd

Rock Slide
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
Hydro Pump

It's a no brainer that Greninja's godly speed tier and universally envied coverage options makes it a top tier threat in any format that allows him. (seriously, why does a ninja frog get rock slide!?)

But this is about as straightforward as it gets. Go mixed, have enough EV's to one-shot both of the threats, outspeed them, take no prisoners.

Even just a little investment into attack can wipe out Volcarona even with a Charti Berry to soften the blow.

68 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charti Berry Volcarona: 164-195 (101.8 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And against Salamence, the 2 speed point advantage that allow Greninja to outspeed his mega spells certain doom for both variants.

188 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 348-421 (203.5 - 246.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO