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Skill Level
- Thread starter JesiahTEG
- Start date
How well they adapt themselves to the changes of the metagame, and more importantly, how well they can change the metagame alone with their strange-at-first-but-amazing-afterwards strategies.
Something like Obi's stall team, maybe?
Something like Obi's stall team, maybe?
First of all: Playing the game a lot, so you know what you need to counter.
Second: Intelligence as needed in breaking hard puzzles, creativity and some math skills.
Second: Intelligence as needed in breaking hard puzzles, creativity and some math skills.
The battle is won and lost during the Team Building phase, I find.
I've played games where I've realised it is nearly impossible for me to win, because of a basic flaw in my team building.
There's also the element of whether or not you can bring yourself to use a certain Pokemon. That shouldn't really be a factor in a competitive community, but it's becoming a lot more evident since Wobbufet's introduction.
I've played games where I've realised it is nearly impossible for me to win, because of a basic flaw in my team building.
There's also the element of whether or not you can bring yourself to use a certain Pokemon. That shouldn't really be a factor in a competitive community, but it's becoming a lot more evident since Wobbufet's introduction.
I think its all prediction. When skilled players fight unskilled players the skilled player is practically psychic. Virtually any team can win if you predict right.
Correct, and this correlates with playing much and the intellegence needed for hard puzzles.
Adapting to the metagame makes someone good?
So Gyarados has become the most used lead. I throw HP Electric on my lead Pokemon because the metagame consists of 90% of all leads being Gyarados. Does this make me a good battler?
I think I've expressed myself badly. I admit I only considered something as big as Wobbuffet unbanning and such. Adding HP Electric would only mean the player is up-to-date with the changes. Heh, bad wording.
But I agree with Lee and Blue_Harvest, actually. Team Building and prediction are more important then what I said.
EDIT: What the hell was I saying, adaptibility to the metagame is not a bonus, it's a must. I fell so dumb now.
End topic.
Yes,prediction is the key.Like letting Skarm in against a Scarf Heatran because you have Heatran too,so switching my Heatran in Earth Power=death,staying,not switching to Heatran,and getting a Flamethrower=death,but a predict lets you alive and well.Predictions,predictions...
15% team building and preparation, 80% prediction and 5% luck.
I have to disagree with that. Prediction won't always work against bad players since they might not act like you think they will.
I have to disagree with that. Prediction won't always work against bad players since they might not act like you think they will.
Not true. Bad players are either super-predictable, or just plain bad.
You should be able to beat them regardless of their moves. You should play it safe early on, just to draw out how skilled they are.
So you're saying that if I'm horrible at team building, I'm amazing at prediction and I get lucky once in a while, that warrants me as good?
Edit: Good post Mia, but mind doing me a favor and deleting it for now? I kinda wanted to promote some discussion before giving away strategies
I never take my opponents forgranted as there's always bound to be a trick up their sleeves.
Off-topic but related: after all, the Giants figured out a way to beat the unbeaten Patriots.
Off-topic but related: after all, the Giants figured out a way to beat the unbeaten Patriots.
Yes. Because if you are given a better team, you will devastate with it. Not so much about luck though. If you have the perfect team, yet can't predict, you will still be beaten.
Thats why people who copy Obi's teams on Shoddy still suck.
I don't think Mario with Laser's comment about adapting to the metagame should be ignored. I'd say having a good idea of current trend in the metagame is crucial to the team building process everyone seems to be talking about.
What if all the sudden people start consistently scarfing Infernape, I would think it essential to change my evs up on certain pokemon to out run it.
I know when I came back off a couple months long breeding kick and played some shoddy battles I wasn't prepared to Deoxys at all and i got my ass kicked by it. Now I've adapted and can counter it. All of my old teams from last year that I had success with have been struggling as of late. Knowing your metagame is very crucial.
What if all the sudden people start consistently scarfing Infernape, I would think it essential to change my evs up on certain pokemon to out run it.
I know when I came back off a couple months long breeding kick and played some shoddy battles I wasn't prepared to Deoxys at all and i got my ass kicked by it. Now I've adapted and can counter it. All of my old teams from last year that I had success with have been struggling as of late. Knowing your metagame is very crucial.
What if you had a team that could handle itself in any situation? You can't get any better teams, just "different?"
Then you could still be outplayed. If you make a mistake, you could lose a counter for another poke that can now sweep your team.
Say early on I lose Hippowdon to Salamence Draco Meteor. Late game a good Tyranitar could massacure my team because I made the mistake of not switching Hippowdon to Cresselia.
My team could handle both Tyranitar and Specsmence, but because of my error i'd either lose or have a lot of trouble winning.
I think it's a case of good prediction and, at least this generation, having a good team to start with. If you're terribly weak to, say, Infernape, then no amount of prediction is really going to save you because it's probably faster than anything you've got to throw at it.
But say that Tyranitar was a Boah anyways, so you couldn't really have walled it due to Ice Beam. You want to be able to counter the most you can while also staying in the "general" realm where you don't have a specific counter for everything. That's why Pogeys like Blissey, Gliscor, and Cresselia are so popular. They can counter almost everything in their defensive spectrum.
The team plays a large part in showing your skill level, but even if you have a great team you can still suck. Prediction doesn't define a player's skill as much as people think it does - common sense and the ability to think of the best and worst possibilities and moves that you can make are what allow you to get a good base in battling. After that, keeping on top of the metagame, constantly trying out new things such as a different EV spread or moveset, and battling a lot is what makes you better. As my track coach says, if you're not continually practicing, you can only get worse.
The team plays a large part in showing your skill level, but even if you have a great team you can still suck. Prediction doesn't define a player's skill as much as people think it does - common sense and the ability to think of the best and worst possibilities and moves that you can make are what allow you to get a good base in battling. After that, keeping on top of the metagame, constantly trying out new things such as a different EV spread or moveset, and battling a lot is what makes you better. As my track coach says, if you're not continually practicing, you can only get worse.
Boah Ice Beam is a 3HKO from what i've heard. Depends on Boah's IVs I guess.
Standard Boah to standard Hippowdon is 54.76% - 64.29%.
I feel teambuilding is being very overlooked in this thread. Teambuilding is what causes prediction to be worthwhile; the best prediction in the world won't save you if you don't have the switch-in or the move you need to use for what you predict. Sure, with great prediction you can use a pre-made team and do well, but... how good are you really if all you can do is the more simple battling process?
I feel teambuilding is being very overlooked in this thread. Teambuilding is what causes prediction to be worthwhile; the best prediction in the world won't save you if you don't have the switch-in or the move you need to use for what you predict. Sure, with great prediction you can use a pre-made team and do well, but... how good are you really if all you can do is the more simple battling process?
I'd say the single most important factor that separates the good from the top tier is...experience. And then once you get to the top tier, luck...
Anyone can build a good team that has at least some strategy to deal with the threats of metagame. Great players are able to exectue these strategies and win the battle (this is especially important in the D/P metagame). Experience plays an important role in executing these strategies. Great players know exactly what to do in certain situations because they've probably been there before. This helps aid them in their psychic like "prediction," which probably isn't really a good term for it. It's really more an educated guess, calculated to perfection. They know that more often then not, if they choose move A over move B in a certain situation, they will choose right.
I can't remember all the times I've thought, "If I would have only used this move then, or switched this pokemon in then, I would have won." Hopefully, I can learn from these mistakes and become a great player someday.
Anyone can build a good team that has at least some strategy to deal with the threats of metagame. Great players are able to exectue these strategies and win the battle (this is especially important in the D/P metagame). Experience plays an important role in executing these strategies. Great players know exactly what to do in certain situations because they've probably been there before. This helps aid them in their psychic like "prediction," which probably isn't really a good term for it. It's really more an educated guess, calculated to perfection. They know that more often then not, if they choose move A over move B in a certain situation, they will choose right.
I can't remember all the times I've thought, "If I would have only used this move then, or switched this pokemon in then, I would have won." Hopefully, I can learn from these mistakes and become a great player someday.
It's just basic intelligence. On average smarter players will be better than dumber players. It's as simple as that in my opinion.
Haha there is nothing.
Nothing at all.
Except.
Experience and luck.
When it comes down to it, everything is experience and luck.
Team building. No team can counter every single thing that's out there. So it's up to experience to know what to do against a threat. And it's down to luck that they don't have that Poke or if they do.
Prediction. This is definitely luck regardless of how anyone wnats to complain. You can't outpredict someone, without the other person overpredicting. So does that mean you made the right one or they made the wrong one? A little bit of both, therefore, there's no such thing.
Luck. Sometimes you can get every break during the game. Remember that it's also luck when you don't get frozen. Sure it's only a low chance of happening, but everytime it doesn't, it's still 'luck' nonetheless.
Preparation. What the fuck are you preparing for? The other team to set up? No. You should prepare to set your own shit up, henceforth not having anything to do with preparation at all.
In the end, it's just experience. You either know what to do or you don't.
I mean I have 7 years of online battling to teach me everything I know. We didn't have a "Smogon Tutor Program" back in 2000 you know.
Nothing at all.
Except.
Experience and luck.
When it comes down to it, everything is experience and luck.
Team building. No team can counter every single thing that's out there. So it's up to experience to know what to do against a threat. And it's down to luck that they don't have that Poke or if they do.
Prediction. This is definitely luck regardless of how anyone wnats to complain. You can't outpredict someone, without the other person overpredicting. So does that mean you made the right one or they made the wrong one? A little bit of both, therefore, there's no such thing.
Luck. Sometimes you can get every break during the game. Remember that it's also luck when you don't get frozen. Sure it's only a low chance of happening, but everytime it doesn't, it's still 'luck' nonetheless.
Preparation. What the fuck are you preparing for? The other team to set up? No. You should prepare to set your own shit up, henceforth not having anything to do with preparation at all.
In the end, it's just experience. You either know what to do or you don't.
I mean I have 7 years of online battling to teach me everything I know. We didn't have a "Smogon Tutor Program" back in 2000 you know.