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Skymin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter 1059860
- Start date
Depends if you call having /Hetran/Blissey/Cresselia on every team overcentralizing. I mean there are plenty of things that can kill it, but will they enjoy switching into a Seed Flare? It's also fast enought to outspeed and OHKO what would otherwise be good counters.
I'm pretty sure that Sky Shaymin is going to end up in ubers atm. 80% chance of lowering SpD is just broken. I'd love to test it in OU, but my gut instinct is that it's going up.
However, as a predominantly OU player, it is kind of cool that regular Shaymin no longer has to rely on Hidden Power to damage other Grass types as it gets Air Slash from the Sky forme, freeing up the Hidden Power slot for something else, probably Ground to hit Heatran.
However, as a predominantly OU player, it is kind of cool that regular Shaymin no longer has to rely on Hidden Power to damage other Grass types as it gets Air Slash from the Sky forme, freeing up the Hidden Power slot for something else, probably Ground to hit Heatran.
4x Ice Weak didn't stop Garchomp.
Its more important that its type coverage is slightly awkward. It also doesn't have 80% chance to lower SpDEF (It might miss), and the PP on its prime move is low and easily sapped off by stuff like Zapdos (or lolMoltres?). Its also quite "frail", although realistically speaking, 100/75/75 defences aren't exactly bad. Weakness to Ice, Fire (Fire types tend to resist his main STAB too) and Rock hurt it defensively.
However, given that huge speed...its dangerous. He might not like Scarfers or priority users (As he can't take those hits as well as say, oh, Garchomp?), but he CAN come in and wreck some shit. Switching in on it is hard but not impossible.
But I recon he won't use Life Orb much, due to the fact that residual damage builds up heavily on him already (What with SRock weak and no immunity to either Hail or Sand). Thus, odds are he's either a defensive SubSeeder (Which can be dealt with due to lack of Taunt) or a Choice user (Which requires some good prediction skills to deal with). The problem there is that they are two totally different sets which require different counters.
But in the end, only time will tell.
Its more important that its type coverage is slightly awkward. It also doesn't have 80% chance to lower SpDEF (It might miss), and the PP on its prime move is low and easily sapped off by stuff like Zapdos (or lolMoltres?). Its also quite "frail", although realistically speaking, 100/75/75 defences aren't exactly bad. Weakness to Ice, Fire (Fire types tend to resist his main STAB too) and Rock hurt it defensively.
However, given that huge speed...its dangerous. He might not like Scarfers or priority users (As he can't take those hits as well as say, oh, Garchomp?), but he CAN come in and wreck some shit. Switching in on it is hard but not impossible.
But I recon he won't use Life Orb much, due to the fact that residual damage builds up heavily on him already (What with SRock weak and no immunity to either Hail or Sand). Thus, odds are he's either a defensive SubSeeder (Which can be dealt with due to lack of Taunt) or a Choice user (Which requires some good prediction skills to deal with). The problem there is that they are two totally different sets which require different counters.
But in the end, only time will tell.
Garchomp is carrying 108 HP/95 Def/85 SDef
Skymin carries 100 HP/75 Def/75 SDef
Garchomp carried SD and Outrage
Skymin doesn't have a stat up that isn't Growth. If it got/gets calm mind, I'll agree it's uber but from the looks it really isn't impossible to beat
Sub/Seed/Synthesis/Seed Flare? That way, you still hit Taunters if needed, and you get to pull ye olde Subseed strategy.
It still had 8 points of base hp, 20 of base def and 10 of base SDef.
And Sand Veil made it like that, because it dropped 200%, meaning hypnosis hits 50, etc.
Skymin couldn't beat Garchomp one on one, as it can't really subseed effectively, due to Stone Edge/Fire fang, and its LOrb set won't OHKO with Seed Flare, and will get hit back by an Outrage.
It had a lot more bulk, and it had Swords Dance to stat up, as a +2 outrage 2HKO's nearly anything in the game.
Synthesis isn't that impressive, it won't get much use, because Tyranitar sets up SS, Abomasnow sets up Hail, hell Deoxys can set up a Rain Dance. Its best set is either SubSeed or Choice Specs.
Who cares if it doesn't OHKO (although I personally doubt that, due to Garchomp being neutral to Grass)? Hooray for 80% SpDef drop. It'll just go in and kill it next turn because it's faster. If Garchomp kills Skymin, it has to get out or else face whatever revenge killer comes in, or something else sets up on the switch-out....
I think that Skymin actually wins one on one most of the time, but at the very least, Garchomp should not be staying in or face being severely crippled...
I ran damage calcs of it coming from Roserade with Life orb, and roserade actually hits harder than skymin with 5 base SAtk higher. So yeah stop doubting.
In a one on one, CB Chomp beats it 100% of the time barring a crit from SeedFlare.
I had a feeling someone would bring that up.
Either way, I'm making a point it isn't really worth being an uber. People here make it seem like its OHMAHGOD good. Its fast, and it hits relatively hard. But its only priority is quick attack, Heatran and Moltres can come in on 3/4 of its Specs/Life orb moves and KO with a Scarfed Fire Blast.
Point is, I don't believe its uber, its too frail.
Either way, I'm making a point it isn't really worth being an uber. People here make it seem like its OHMAHGOD good. Its fast, and it hits relatively hard. But its only priority is quick attack, Heatran and Moltres can come in on 3/4 of its Specs/Life orb moves and KO with a Scarfed Fire Blast.
Point is, I don't believe its uber, its too frail.
This is the set that I'd think make it uber worthy:
Skymin @Leftovers
Timid (+speed, -attack)
EVs: (252 HP/ 252 SPE) (252 SPATK/ 252 SPE)
Moves:
Air Slash
Growth
Substitute
Leech Seed
There is really nothing that can stop this effectively once it gets a sub up, and since, by definition, a counter always has to be the one switching in, it pretty much always gets that free sub. 101 subs are just a preference; they aren't really necessary, especially if you want to hit harder from the outset. Leech Seed drains walls like Blissey, allowing you to boost your special attack as they break your sub. Boosted Air Slashes along with a 60% chance to render most of your opponents flinching allow you to kill them with ease.
Skymin @Leftovers
Timid (+speed, -attack)
EVs: (252 HP/ 252 SPE) (252 SPATK/ 252 SPE)
Moves:
Air Slash
Growth
Substitute
Leech Seed
There is really nothing that can stop this effectively once it gets a sub up, and since, by definition, a counter always has to be the one switching in, it pretty much always gets that free sub. 101 subs are just a preference; they aren't really necessary, especially if you want to hit harder from the outset. Leech Seed drains walls like Blissey, allowing you to boost your special attack as they break your sub. Boosted Air Slashes along with a 60% chance to render most of your opponents flinching allow you to kill them with ease.
Remix: something being frail doesn't stop it being uber. Take a butcher's at Deoxys-A. Regarding your point on Heatran, what's to stop it predicting or putting a sub up and then using HP Ground. A counter is not viable if it can't switch in to Shaymin when it has a sub up. As to Moltres, Moltres comes in Shaymin goes out. Next time Moltres comes in it's dead.
To Deoxys-A
Deoxys-A carries 180 Atk and 180 SAtk along with 150 speed. You can't even try comparing them.
Obviously you integrate 5 moves into a SubSeed Skymin. Air Slash, Seed Flare, Substitute, Leech Seed is the best set from SubSeeding besides the set sudo just showed. It abuses Serene Grace best. HP Ground isn't in that, it is in the Specs set, if that, it can't sub up and I doubt that its gonna do that to a something it would switch into, like Vaporeon, as they can't take risks of Ice Beams. Bad arguement -_-
Sudo, its a good set but a fast taunter is gonna hurt it, e.g Aero, and Deoxys
Edit: Name a Deoxys-A counter in OU.