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Skymin Discussion Thread

Atyroki said:
The description for Seed Flare just says lower, not harshly lower, so I'm pretty sure it only drops it -1 =/
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If you search on Smogon, it says it drops 2 stages.

And Darkrai's getting Nasty Plot... <-- Now staying in Uber for good...
Snorlax & Salamence are getting Outrage... <-- Snorlax is okay, but Salamence... Shall it be moved with Garchomp...
Crobat & Zapdos is getting Heat Wave... <-- Another huge increase for Zapdos...
Entei is getting Eruption... <-- Finally useable :)
Lucario with Ice Punch & ThunderPunch... <-- Oh bless me... There goes all Dragons.

God help us...
 
garo said:
is it too much to ask to give dragonite thick fat??????
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Well, we can still hope for the best... =/

But to put some input, Skymin could just be another Rhyperior or Heatran, but there could be some hidden niches in the metagame that could be easily put onto any team to stop Skymin. Hell, we did it with Garchomp, so why not here? Or, it may just turn out to be not as good as expected [Rhyperior?]

Although with what I've seen already, this thing looks like it will likely rape the metagame, at least a bit.
 
I don't know how much this affects the discussion but while the first page list Skymins speed and special attack at 127 and 120 respectively; Serebii has them listed the other way. 120 Speed and 127 Special attack.

That is all.
 
The difference with Rhyperior and Skymin that I can see is this:

Rhyperior looked good due to its relativly good stats and Solid Rock, plus a fairly decent movepool.

Skymin looks good because its stats pretty much rape (Better speed then most Pokemon), along with a good attacking stat (SpA). Not to mention that Rhyperior never needed something to be sacrificed to be able to do away with it, which I can easily see Skymin requiring, something to come in, soak up the 80% chance of losing half your SpDef, fainting, then bringing out something with Ice Shard, only to have them switch out. Weavile can use Pursuit and Ice Shard but even that would require good predicting. Finally, anything switching into Skymin is at huge risk for losing half its SpDef, I saw something somewhere where someone showed that Blissey is 3HKO'd by Air Slash if it switches in on Seed Flare and loses SpDef. Im not even sure if that was counting the Seed Flare Damage..

Heatran is still one of the biggest threats in the metagame, no where near Rhyperior, or Skymin, on the opposite end of the spectrum
 
IggyBot said:
Just throwing this out there, but is it possible that Nintendo doesn't have a Platinum WiFi server up yet, which is causing Sky Shaymin to be unusable?

I don't know how possible that is, but it's just something that popped into my head.
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Why would Platinum get (or even need) its own server?
 
Just a thought, Skymin will be the third fastest thing in OU (not that it's going in OU). Only Deoxys-S, Jask, and the group that sit at 130 Speed are faster than it. Revenge killer, anyone?

Saying that, it'll probably end up uber, with good Sp attack/Speed, good defenses, good resistances, and a decent movepool. And Seed flare with Serene Grace doesn't help either.

Hope this isn't another Rhyperior: gets hyped up heaps, and then doesn't have a great impact
 
Going off my earlier post, can anyone tell me how it can possibly turn out like Rhyperior?

Does any of Rhyperiors attacks inflict any where the potential damage/annoyance/pwnage that Seed Flare + Air Slash going off of Serene Grace will?

Blissey has a slight chance of dealing with it via Ice Beam but even that is sort of a stretch...
 
rippersteveM5 said:
Just a thought, Skymin will be the third fastest thing in OU (not that it's going in OU). Only Deoxys-S, Jask, and the group that sit at 130 Speed are faster than it.
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Electrode is sitting in a corner, crying.

Come and think of it, if Electrode can survive Seed Flare (Havent checked yet), it might actually enjoy a rise in usage. That'd be odd, to say the least.

Or maybe...Scarf Entei with Eruption? >.>
 
ViVi said:
Skymin has alot more going for it then Rhyperior did.How can you even compare the 2?
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Okay, bad example. What I meant was that I hope it doesn't get hyped up and then has a bad impact on the game.

Lou Cypher said:
Electrode is sitting in a corner, crying.

Come and think of it, if Electrode can survive Seed Flare (Havent checked yet), it might actually enjoy a rise in usage. That'd be odd, to say the least.

Or maybe...Scarf Entei with Eruption? >.>
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I did say OU, but I did forget about Electrode. :( Sorry Electrode

ScarfTran also seems a decent counter: Resists all of Skymins attacks, and can attack back with a Fire move or HP Ice (if it's locked in to it).

Also Scarf Typhlosion/Entei, to a lesser extent.
 
ViVi said:
Skymin has alot more going for it then Rhyperior did.How can you even compare the 2?
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Ugh... the comparison isn't because they are similar Pokémon. The comparison is that they have both been hyped to death. Rhyperior wasn't just "meh it has base 140 attack, might be useful in OU matches", it was basically information overload wtih goos things. One of the game's highest base Attack scores, the highest Defense of any Ground type, Solid Rock to help with its shitty weakness list, Megahorn and Avalanche for the rare STAB resistors, Sand Stream SDef buff... All of these things listed in quick succession make Rhyperior look like a god. And people thought he was. Early DP teams often had many Rhyperior (Bologo used to collect stats from RMTs, and even after the hype it stayed near the top of used Pokémon simply because old usages carried over). But people found he had a few problems. His weaknesses weren't as patched by Sloid Rock as much as one might have hoped. He wasn't that good at many of his "roles" individually: As a tank he suffered from a lack of recovery moves, as a sweeper he suffered from his low Speed.

Anyway, the "moral" of the story is that it's horribly easy to hype a Pokémon. Look at the Gyarados analysis. The Bulky set isn't very good at sweeping the opponent, honestly, as it's walled VERY easily and Electric attacks are common. Yet the analysis brags about Gyarados, calling it a "monster" and generally hyping it more than any analysis I've ever read, including Uber Pokémon! Honestly, it brags that after a 1.5x attack boost he can OHKO all members that get stab on his 4x weakness except Zapdos... but this isn't that hard to do when you have Earthquake pitted against a group of historically physically frail Pokémon. Okay, I went on a tangent, but hype is one of the things that makes me insane.

Overhype is the real reason for "caution" when talking about Shaymin. As it's very easy to hype a Pokémon, we may be glossing over some flaw of Shaymin that we're not thinking about right now, such as Seed Flare's 8 PP or low defenses or something. When a Pokémon doesn't have 680 BST or a giant movepool (Shaymin's offensive movepool is still tiny), you should get out of the habit sf trying to get it declared Uber wtihout testing it in a metagame.
 
Although the Specs and Life Orb versions can be somewhat countered, the Leech Seed version is just going to be extremely annoying to deal with so I hope it doesn't sour the gameplay.
 
It doesn't resist HP Ground, but by giving it just 32 HP EV's, it can take an HP ground from +Speed non LO/Specs/MB Shaymin with 1 HP left, and OHKO back =/
 
Would this mean that we'd see more Ice Shard Weaviles if it's in OU?
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Probably a good point. Ice Shard Weavile is great, and I've seen its use decreasing a tad bit since the departure of Mr. Chomp. It's good to keep strong priority attackers in the metagame, and it's even better when SkyMin can survive it with a Yache Berry. I really like the idea of this guy. I always found Nasty Plotting to be a pain to have to make a turn for, and with Seed Bomb, I don't even have to anymore.

The whole Registeel thing, I'm stoked about. I've always liked registeel, and it would be nice to have a good use for him.

I haven't done alot of research on this new forme yet, but does anyone know how it evolves in the in-game?
 
Oh god with 101 subs, leftovers and leech seed recovery, growth and air slash, it'll be nigh impossible to counter.

Sub for protection against seismic toss and status, leech seed saps and eventually kills all non grass types without a reliable recovery move, growth rockets special attack into the stratosphere while air slash inflicts flinch and pummels grass types (and nearly everything after a growth or two) who think they can wall it (celebi).

Sure it doesn't carry Seed Flare but Air Slash is much better in the long run with flinch, higher accuracy, and more PP.
 
Earthquake said:
Although the Specs and Life Orb versions can be somewhat countered, the Leech Seed version is just going to be extremely annoying to deal with so I hope it doesn't sour the gameplay.
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roar zapdos and skarmory can probably handle a subseed set with relative ease, especially with stealth rock down.
 
This thing definitely needs test... And I'm looking forward of having it in Uber. If Garchomp can get in there, this thing, with Leech Seed, Synthesis, 101 Subs, Serene Grace, extremely high speed, 80% chance of lowering SpD 2 stages on a 180 power move, and STAB Flincher, yeah....
 
Has anyone brought up physical Skymin? Swords Dance/Seed Bomb/Quick Attack/Return could work I guess (though it has nothing on Steels). If it gets Aerial Ace, that will be useful to take out Gengar.

Looks fairly novelty, but could be a surprise I guess, and 103/127 is nothing to sniff at.
 
[SET]
Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Seed Bomb
Move 3: Return
Move 4: Hidden Power [Fire]
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Spe / 246 Atk / 12 SpA

Hidden Power [Fire]:
252/0 Neutral Scizor OHKO
252/0 Neutral Forretress OHKO
252/0 Neutral Skarmory 2HKO
176/0 Neutral Magnezone 2HKO
0/0 Neutral Lucario 2HKO
252/0 Neutral Metagross 2HKO-3HKO
252/128 Positive Bronzong 3HKO-4HKO

Swords Danced Seed Bomb:
252/0 Neutral Tyranitar OHKO
0/0 Neutral Azelf OHKO
160/0 Neutral Starmie OHKO
252/252 Positive Vaporeon OHKO
252/252 Positive Suicune OHKO-2HKO
252/252 Positive Hippowdon OHKO-2HKO

Just to give a general idea of the damage that the Swords Dance set does.
 
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