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Skymin Discussion Thread

lol Regice and registeel are counters

status will be worthless if shaymin's carrying substitute, and with air slash flinching you more than half the time, you'll be doing shit back

good luck guys stopping this beast, if togekiss is the king of hax shaymin will be the hax god
 
Jibaku said:
Umm that doesn't work, because if TTar switches in on the exact same turn, then sandstorm will come out first, which then gets nullified by Sunny Day/weather
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My bad, but it still impractical due to the high T-tar usage though I can't say that shaymin is in the same catagory as moonlight cress since Seed Flare is definitely 2hko if not ohko.
 
I don't know, this thing just screams overcentralizing to me as you would basically be required to carry one of it's counters we have discussed.

the optimism is nice and all, but yeah, no thanks. togekiss is annoying enough
 
Ok guys, I've gotten several nice ideas about Shaymin-S from all of you so I compiled it all into one page or so right there:

Note: This is about Shaymin-S, not its original form.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Seed Flare
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Psychic
item: Choice Specs
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Now that Shaymin-S has access to Air Slash to decimate Grass-types there will not be as much need for Hidden Power [Fire/Ice] and because of this Shaymin-S can now use Earth Power to get rid of Heatran. Seed Flare will be the main attacking move of choice and with an 80% chance of making the opponent's Special Defense drop two stages the next Seed Flare will most likely do two times the damage as it did the last. Air Slash Allows Shaymin-S to rip apart the likes of Celebi and other Grass-types with ease along with being Shaymin-S secondary move with a nasty 60% flinch ratio. Psychic takes down Pokémon that are somewhat threatening to Shaymin-S primarily Muk, Crobat, and Weezing.</p>


[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Growth
move 2: Seed Flare
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Earth Power
ability: Serene Grace
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set has a major advantage over the Choice Specs set, that is when a Pokémon switches into a not-very-effective Seed Flare you can hit if for neutral or super-effective damage after the Special Defense drop. Here Psychic is replaced with Growth which allows Shaymin-S to boost its Special Attack thus increasing its sweeping potential. Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power allow for maximum type coverage.</p>


[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Seed Flare
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Leech Seed
ability: Serene Grace
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Standard SubSeeder, Leech Seeding something that will potentially switch out then using Substitute over and over again to drain the opponent's health. Air Slash keeps Celebi and other Grass-types from ruining your seeding and Seed Flare should be able to force switches with the Special Defense drop. This set works extremely well if there are entry hazards such as Stealth Rock out on the field.</p>


[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Hidden Power [Fire]
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Return
ability: Serene Grace
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Swords Dance allows Shaymin-S to use that somewhat nice Base Attack of 103, this set destroys Bulky Waters and Grounds with ease. While Jolly allows you to out speed Starmie and Dugtrio, Adamant allows you to score the OHKO on many of the bulkier Pokémon like maximum Defense / HP Hippowdon and Suicune along with badly hurting most other Pokémon who take regular damage. Return allows you to hit other Grass-type and Poison-types for at least neutral damage. Hidden Power [Fire] OHKOs Scizor and Forretress who otherwise wall this set well as well 2HKOing 6 HP / 0 SpD Heracross and 6 HP / 0 SpD Lucario.</p>


[Other Options]
<p>Hidden Power [Fire] can also be an option over Psychic and Earth Power on the Choice Specs and Life Orb set respectively because it allows you to OHKO Forretress and Scizor and do damage to Bronzong and Skarmory but then leaves you easily walled by Heatran. Grasswhistle can also be an option over Psychic if you wish to inflict Sleep upon your opponent Grasswhistle is also and option over Psychic on the Specs set because it allows you to Sleep potentially threatening switch-ins.</p>


[Counters]
<p>Regice has amazing Special Defense and has Clear Body which keeps its Special Defense intact while absorbing Special hits like a champ then Ice Beaming for the OHKO. Registeel also has Clear Body and takes not-very-effective damage from Seed Flare and is 3HKOed by Earth Power on the Timid Specs set and can 2HKO back with Ice Punch. Registeel and Regice can set up Stealth Rock lowering Shaymin-S longevity. Heatran can take Seed Flare easily switching in but will have to be weary of Earth Power and will need to run Timid Scarf if it wants to out speed Shaymin-S. Crobat can take Seed Flare and Earth Power easily and OHKO back with Brave Bird.</p>
 
This, combined with the Garchomp ban, will make Registeel useful. I never thought I'd see the day. And just requiring you to carry a counter doesn't make it overcentralizing, is Gyarados overcentralizing because it will sweep a team without a counter? Essentially all OU pokemon will sweep or wall entire teams if they are not countered, this is just one more. Will it be good? Yes, that goes without saying, will it be dominant? That takes gameplay to find out.
 
Defensive Shaymin need to be used in a Spikes team, since it will make MUCH changes. Regigigas. Metagross. REgice. Some new names we will se a much
 
skiddle said:
Wow, 80% sp.def drop from Seed Flare. How are you supposed to wall this thing? Did Game Freak even consider that when they made it?

Scarftran is going to become even more popular with it's 4x grass resistance, and the ability to OHKO this thing.
Click to expand...

Blissey can wall it, so can cress, registeel... =/

I really badly want this thing OU ._.
 
Blissey will possibly be taken down with Seed Flare, the 80% chance of her SpDef going down by 2+ is huge, so I don't think so..
 
lol good luck walling it with 80% of your special defense down the drain in one turn :\

not to mention you'll most always be switching those walls into shaymin so it's going to get a lot of free turns

with rampant physical pokemon like infernape, heracross, lucario, tauntdos, even swampert along with the ever-popular heatran, good luck keeping registeel alive for that long
 
Yeah I want this thing ou too.

I find that it can do nothing at all to tran, registeel, ect. People need to get off the mentallity that it needs to have a wall that can kill it for it to be ou. It gets seed flare (8pp) and air slash. PP of seed flare is easily stalled by switching around and once its gone blissey is a sure wall.

Scarftran can outspeed, not be ohkoed, and ohko before skymin can touch it. The only set with the power to take blissey is the specs one which is countered by smart switching between heatran and blissey.

Once paralyzed by blissey, It is easily revenged. Also sharders such as wevile and mamo can come in to revenge. Also if locked on air slash, tyranitar can com in, threaten pursuit, and stone edge it.

All of these reasons make it viable for at least testing in Ou.
 
I'm going to start trying out Regice again. It can take on Salamence fairly well, and makes a good status absorber. Also it can beat the ever-annoying Gengar, who 3HKOs with 70% acc Focus Blast... :/

Also, when this thing comes along, I want to be proficient with Regice like I used to be in early D/P.
 
Wait... does this mean normal Shaymin gets Air Slash?

I can see the subseed set being the best for Skymin. Like Sceptile, but better!
 
Garchomp is gone and the Regis can actually counter something. :)Now if only we could do something about stealth rock..

I'm kidding. Let's talk about Skymin. Everyone's eyes are on that %80 sp def drop. I can't wait to see what he can do.
 
chaos 9 said:
Yeah I want this thing ou too.

I find that it can do nothing at all to tran, registeel, ect. People need to get off the mentallity that it needs to have a wall that can kill it for it to be ou. It gets seed flare (8pp) and air slash. PP of seed flare is easily stalled by switching around and once its gone blissey is a sure wall.

Scarftran can outspeed, not be ohkoed, and ohko before skymin can touch it. The only set with the power to take blissey is the specs one which is countered by smart switching between heatran and blissey.

Once paralyzed by blissey, It is easily revenged. Also sharders such as wevile and mamo can come in to revenge. Also if locked on air slash, tyranitar can com in, threaten pursuit, and stone edge it.

All of these reasons make it viable for at least testing in Ou.
Click to expand...

1) "It gets seed flare (8pp) and air slash. PP of seed flare is easily stalled by switching around and once its gone blissey is a sure wall."

Do you know how crippled your team would be by the end of the 8 turns? And that is if the Shaymin user doesn't predict to Sub-Seed on you, or pull a Growth... By the end of 8 turns, especially with Growth, you're basically dead. Even if Blissey is a sure wall, some physical sweeper such as Dugtrio can just take her down, and you'll basically have a team full of 50% HP's facing a team of Growth or SubSeed Skymin with no Seed Flare PP, still plenty to Flinch the heck out of what's ever left in that Shaymin, and kill the rest with the other 5 while you're just feeble.

2) "Scarftran can outspeed, not be ohkoed, and ohko before skymin can touch it."

It must be +Speed nature, and even though, simply just switch into Infernape (will not die from Flamethrower), get a free Nasty Plot; Salamence and Dragonite as well, and pull a free Dragon Dance; and of course, Tyranitar, which also pulls a free Dragon Dance or Rock Polish, then start having fun with those as well... Nobody said you have to keep Skymin in on Scarftran. Also that is assuming you don't switch into HP [Ground].

3) "Once paralyzed by blissey, It is easily revenged."

No! Again, just by having a Dugtrio on the team, Blissey is nothing. Immunity to Paralysis, and CBTrio is guarenteed 2HKO on a standard Blissey with Earthquake, or OHKO with Crit. If you predict something like Ice Beam, then switch into Hitmonlee. Again, immunity to Paralysis and great Special Defense, OHKO with Close Combat...

4) "Also sharders such as wevile and mamo can come in to revenge. Also if locked on air slash, tyranitar can com in, threaten pursuit, and stone edge it."

Mamoswine/Donphan/Weavile all get OHKO, I believe by Life Orb Timid Shaymin's Seed Flare, so you have to sacrifice one just to switch something in.

5) One point you didn't mention: If you switch BLISSEY into Seed Flare, and has its SpD lowered two stages, it'll just die to a succession of Air Slash flinches... There is no safe counter. Period.
 
Its like Garchomp

No safe switch into Yache (2HKO all non-boosted pokes I believe), so you just have to rely on revenge killing it
 
Still guessing here, but it seems as though a lot of Flying Pokes are learning Heat Wave as a tutor move (Crobat and Zapdos to name a few). It's a long shot (especially since he's weak to it), but if Shaymin does learn Heat Wave...god help us all.
 
What about Regice and Registeel, who is unaffected by Seed Flare's SpD drop thanks to Clear Body? They can sponge its hits well and threaten it with Thunder Wave/Ice Beam/Ice Punch. Those are what I'd call "safe counters".
 
They were already mentioned a few pages back..

Lee I agree, if I mean if Snorlax somehow got Outrage, then Heatwave Skymin will be lol bye Regis
 
Wait... does this mean normal Shaymin gets Air Slash?
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Yes.

Its like Garchomp

No safe switch into Yache (2HKO all non-boosted pokes I believe), so you just have to rely on revenge killing it
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We've already been over this. Registeel shuts it down, Blissey probably shuts down any non-specs special attacker, Zapdos resists grass and flying and subtracts 2 pp every time it takes a Seed Flare.

I really do not know why you compared it to Garchomp at all, can we just forget about him for once? >_>
 
Why not compare it to Garchomp?

Skymin is probably the next thing everyone will use in OU (if it is OU) so I think it is a great comparison
 
Just throwing this out there, but is it possible that Nintendo doesn't have a Platinum WiFi server up yet, which is causing Sky Shaymin to be unusable?

I don't know how possible that is, but it's just something that popped into my head.
 
Lee said:
Still guessing here, but it seems as though a lot of Flying Pokes are learning Heat Wave as a tutor move (Crobat and Zapdos to name a few). It's a long shot (especially since he's weak to it), but if Shaymin does learn Heat Wave...god help us all.
Click to expand...

LEE, where are you getting all this information? Serebii doesn't have much information at all.
 
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