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Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

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TheNegativeOne said:
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A- -> B+
Agree
Does a suicide lead with a horrendous typing, abysmal physical bulk, and decent at best speed honestly deserve to be described as "Very solid in the metagame"? Or hell, does it deserve to really even be higher than strong wallbreakers and utility mons such Gengar or Thundurus? There are much more useful leads out there and I personally fail to understand why Nihilego is anywhere near the A ranks. It's outclassed as a revenge killer, outclassed as a lead, outclassed as a "wall", and just.. Misses the mark for me. (Though I would be glad to be told why it's apparently A- material)
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I can't respond to most of the rest of your post, but Nihilego's primary role isn't a suicide lead. I've only ever seen and used its Choice sets, primarily Scarf (see my name, lol). 103 Speed is quite good as it revenge kills +1 Charizard X, Volcarona, Gyarados, etc. as well as other Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp and the dreaded Scarf Lele. Rock / Poison / Electric / Ice or Fire is good coverage on everything bar Steels and Grounds (but Landorus-T dies to HP Ice), and while an inability to break through things like Mega Metagross is a major problem, Power Gem / Thunderbolt still chips at them and allows for a potential clean sweep late game with Beast Boost. Which is also a great ability for a Scarf Pokemon, for obvious reasons. With this increased Speed it's basically the fastest cleaner in OU bar Scarf Pheromosa, and so it serves as a good emergency check to a surprising number of Pokemon, even other late game sweepers such as the Tapus, Greninja (you can tank a Water Shuriken if you're at high health), etc.; most teams that rely on these to sweep late game can't really handle a Scarf Nihilego boosting as it nabs kills. As a lead I agree it's not great, but its ability to crush Tapu Fini is one of its biggest draws. Considering the contents of your post I'm sure you know Nihilego's weaknesses, so I won't bore you with those. Is a Choice niche worthy of A-? It's been effective enough for me, but it's up to opinion.
 
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Manaphy A-->A-/B+
Manaphy is struggling in the current meta right now, and it definitely doesn't compare to the rest of the A rank. Manaphy's new set, z-rain dance, is underwhelming since it only gets two moves to abuse the boosts with, and it wastes the z move slot. From what I've seen, z-rd manaphy has a difficult time setting up because it wants both the speed boost and the tail glow boost. Also, with toxapex and mega venusaur running around, it is practically forced to run psychic, which limits it from running another coverage option. Also, since standard stall runs toxapex, manaphy has a much hard time breaking through stall. While it is by no means a bad pokemon, it is definitely not as good as it was in oras and should be brought down.
 
Euglena said:
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Manaphy A-->A-/B+
Manaphy is struggling in the current meta right now, and it definitely doesn't compare to the rest of the A rank. Manaphy's new set, z-rain dance, is underwhelming since it only gets two moves to abuse the boosts with, and it wastes the z move slot. From what I've seen, z-rd manaphy has a difficult time setting up because it wants both the speed boost and the tail glow boost. Also, with toxapex and mega venusaur running around, it is practically forced to run psychic, which limits it from running another coverage option. Also, since standard stall runs toxapex, manaphy has a much hard time breaking through stall. While it is by no means a bad pokemon, it is definitely not as good as it was in oras and should be brought down.
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Thats not how you play Manaphy tho?

Against Offence you use only Z Rain Dance. You don't need Tail Glow to Wreck what Offence has Going 90% of the time, Rain Boosted Water Moves is enough (Rain isn't even always required)

Against Stall, you use Tail Glow, and use the Waterium-Z on a Hydro Vortex on something that won't budge. You don't really need coverage beyond it and Psychic if you play it how you're supposed to.

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 230-272 (75.6 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How is Toxapex an issue here?

You don't need Speed against Stall, and you don't need the SpA against Offense. the strength of this set is it can beat both.
 
TheMohZone said:
Thats not how you play Manaphy tho?

Against Offence you use only Z Rain Dance. You don't need Tail Glow to Wreck what Offence has Going 90% of the time, Rain Boosted Water Moves is enough (Rain isn't even always required)

Against Stall, you use Tail Glow, and use the Waterium-Z on a Hydro Vortex on something that won't budge. You don't really need coverage beyond it and Psychic if you play it how you're supposed to.

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 230-272 (75.6 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How is Toxapex an issue here?

You don't need Speed against Stall, and you don't need the SpA against Offense. the strength of this set is it can beat both.
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Indeed. Understand that it is a "Double Dance" set Euglena, thus the utility of both Boosting moves are set appart against different types of teams. You might use the two, but I can't see in which situation it is necessary.
 
Not wanting to be one of those guys, I understand that talking about an unranked mon should not done without proof of it, however the unranking of Raikou may had been too quick, not only it can work in an Electric Spam VoltTurn core with Tapu Koko since under E terrain it OHKOes or severely damages a good amount of bulky mons with GVolt Havoc, thanks to Tapu Koko it also can run HP Fire instead to help with Ferro and Scizor.

Raikou also works pretty well with Tapu Bulu with an Expert Belt since it doesnt get OHKOed by Scarf Chomp or Lando-T and can OHKO back in return with HP Ice, it just needs one Calm Mind to OHKO A-Marowak,Metagross(Shadow Ball), bulky versions of Garchomp and Lando-T, works well against the other Tapus.

So in general I think the niche of Raikou is that unlike other Electric mons it can get advantage from the Terrains(A-Raichu is too weak and is not as good with Bulu) without being dependant of them, and it also checks all the Tapus aside from Bulu(which lets Raikou fit very well in a BuluTran core since it kills some of the most troublesome mons for them).

EDIT: I will be sure to add replays to support this, I am currently busy with work but will try to finish it asap.
 
Roxachronic said:
Not wanting to be one of those guys, I understand that talking about an unranked mon should not done without proof of it, however the unranking of Raikou may had been too quick, not only it can work in an Electric Spam VoltTurn core with Tapu Koko since under E terrain it OHKOes or severely damages a good amount of bulky mons with GVolt Havoc, thanks to Tapu Koko it also can run HP Fire instead to help with Ferro and Scizor.

Raikou also works pretty well with Tapu Bulu with an Expert Belt since it doesnt get OHKOed by Scarf Chomp or Lando-T and can OHKO back in return with HP Ice, it just needs one Calm Mind to OHKO A-Marowak,Metagross(Shadow Ball), bulky versions of Garchomp and Lando-T, works well against the other Tapus.

So in general I think the niche of Raikou is that unlike other Electric mons it can get advantage from the Terrains(A-Raichu is too weak and is not as good with Bulu) without being dependant of them, and it also checks all the Tapus aside from Bulu(which lets Raikou fit very well in a BuluTran core since it kills some of the most troublesome mons for them).
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Unfortunately, Raikou is not only competing with other Electric-types (among which Tapu Koko outclasses it 90% of the time) but also other offensive mons. It's not fast enough to beat offensive mons and certainly not strong or reliable enough to break through defensive ones. Your Terrain argument is also a little odd to me; I don't understand what you were trying to say. Raikou is far from the first beneficiary of Grassy Terrain that comes to mind, and dual Electric teams with Koko are generally subpar anyway due to the lack of defensive (and even, to some extent, offensive) synergy. Koko still deals a sizable amount of damage with its Electric STAB, Bulu and Lele blow Raikou back, and even Fini isn't necessarily a safe switch thanks to Nature's Madness. What does Raikou offer that other Special attackers don't? I just don't see it.

EDIT: And if using your Z-Crystal on Raikou is your justification for pairing it with Tapu Koko, then I am thoroughly baffled.
 
TheMohZone said:
Thats not how you play Manaphy tho?

Against Offence you use only Z Rain Dance. You don't need Tail Glow to Wreck what Offence has Going 90% of the time, Rain Boosted Water Moves is enough (Rain isn't even always required)

Against Stall, you use Tail Glow, and use the Waterium-Z on a Hydro Vortex on something that won't budge. You don't really need coverage beyond it and Psychic if you play it how you're supposed to.

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 230-272 (75.6 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How is Toxapex an issue here?

You don't need Speed against Stall, and you don't need the SpA against Offense. the strength of this set is it can beat both.
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Wreck what offence has? Rain dance manaphy has roughly power of LO alakazam and far worse coverage since rain doesn't boost other moves. It also does pathetic damage to things like bulu, ferrothron which aitn't uncommon on offence.

With gen 7 speed ties +1 base 100 is not really that fast. Teams now carry scarf latios, garchomp, kartana, pheromosa.

Best way to show how underwhelming this set is it has not appear in SPL 8 so far. Very disappointing for A-rank mon, isn't it?

Where all those people (I'm looking at you Gary) who called me madman when I said that manaphy is not really good?
 
Seth_ said:
Wreck what offence has? Rain dance manaphy has roughly power of LO alakazam and far worse coverage since rain doesn't boost other moves. It also does pathetic damage to things like bulu, ferrothron which aitn't uncommon on offence.

With gen 7 speed ties +1 base 100 is not really that fast. Teams now carry scarf latios, garchomp, kartana, pheromosa.

Best way to show how underwhelming this set is it has not appear in SPL 8 so far. Very disappointing for A-rank mon, isn't it?

Where all those people (I'm looking at you Gary) who called me madman when I said that manaphy is not really good?
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Why did u feel the need to call me out publicly? Does it make you feel better about yourself?

And yeah, I did think Manaphy was really good. Almost 2 months ago. The meta has changed a fuck ton since then, because now everyone is using stuff like Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, AV Magearna, Fini, etc. The meta was relatively unexplored then, and everyone freaked out with Manaphy because its set seeme crazy good. Now the meta has adapted to it a lot, so it struggles. I still disagree that 2 months ago Manaphy was bad, because the meta was even more offensive in nature then it is now, and +1 Manaphy had a field day with that shit. Moonguss was also relatively off the radar at the time, which makes a big difference. It also faces competition as an offensive Water-type in general from Ash Greninja or just regular Greninja, because of their Speed tier while maintaining the ability to break defensive cores.

The VR team has been discussing a potential drop for Manaphy anyway, so I hope that satisfies your ego.
 
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I think Tapu Bulu should go to A-. It seriously struggles with all of the best megas right now, and most of the good pokemon. Charizard (either) metagross, pinsir, scizor, venusuar are all problematic and one of them is on almost every team. It also isn't that bulky, especially on the special side, and a lot of top mons can easily dispatch of it with a coverage move. Metagame is full of bulky steels right now because of Lele, and Bulu really suffers as a result. Even the all out pummeling set is kind of medicore right now, it will only really pull its weight against Skarmory stall, most of the time it doesn't do much. Bulu isn't horrible, it's just not as good as other stuff in A like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Rotom-W, etc.
 
asterat said:
I think Tapu Bulu should go to A-. It seriously struggles with all of the best megas right now, and most of the good pokemon. Charizard (either) metagross, pinsir, scizor, venusuar are all problematic and one of them is on almost every team. It also isn't that bulky, especially on the special side, and a lot of top mons can easily dispatch of it with a coverage move. Metagame is full of bulky steels right now because of Lele, and Bulu really suffers as a result. Even the all out pummeling set is kind of medicore right now, it will only really pull its weight against Skarmory stall, most of the time it doesn't do much. Bulu isn't horrible, it's just not as good as other stuff in A like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Rotom-W, etc.
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I think Tapu Bulu deserves its A ranking. It does tend to fair poorly against the top mega pokemon, but it has a lot going for it with the ability to hit like a truck and excellent defensive typing.

First of all, it's a powerhouse. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think there is any attack in the tier that is as powerful as a Wood Hammer coming off of a banded Bulu in grassy terrain. It's really hard to switch into, and only really quad resists can stomach its grass attacks comfortably.

It has problems against the premier megas in the game, but it also happens to be an excellent answer to a myriad of very threatening non-mega. Look at the laundry list of things it has the potential to match up well against, depending Tapu Bulu's set - Ash Greninja (A+), Protean Greninja (A+), Tapu Fini (A+), Tapu Koko (A+), Garchomp (A), Manaphy (A), Rotom-W (A), Zygarde (A), rain sweepers...and more. and that's not including the fact that it can go toe-to-toe and potentially come out on top against two S-ranked pokemon in Lando-T and Tapu Lele. Its typing is really good, defensively too.

Bulu has its flaws but it's very potent on a well built team due to what it brings to the table. Grassy Terrain is a pain in the ass too, as it makes Bulu harder to kill and weakens popular ground type moves. Between the terrain and scouting what kind of Bulu you're going up against, a well-played bulu is just a pain in the ass with all the work it puts in

Bulu is better than ferrothron, scizor and rotom-w IMO
 
oreofestar said:
I mean I agree with Bulu staying where it is but calling Grass/Fairy an excellent defensive typing is quite a stretch
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How is laughing off the ground, dark, water, dragon and electric attacks of some of the most dangerous offensive pokemon in the tier a stretch from excellent? How is having a typing whose weaknesses are covered by the common and potent bulky water and steel types a stretch from being excellent?

Bulu's typing is excellent, defensively speaking. It brings so much to any defensive core/team. So many key resistances/immunities. Bulutran is the new celetran
 
Update Time

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A ---> A-
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A ---> A-
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A- ---> B+
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B+ ---> A-
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C+ ---> B-
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C+ ---> C

Some of these updates might come as a bit of a surprise while others shouldn't. Manaphy has fallen off quite a bit recently with people now prepared for its Z Rain Dance set, as well as facing stiff competition as an offensive Water-type in general from both Greninjas. Rotom-W has lost some traction as well, due to the fact that it is no longer needed on 50% of teams with Talonflame no longer in the tier, and with the introduction of Z moves, Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Heatran, and Garchomp have a much easier time breaking through it. The burn nerf hurts it quite a bit as well, because now stuff like Latios and Mega Venusaur don't mind the burn nearly as much, and are more consistent at checking it. Buzzwole is still great for checking many physical threats in the tier, but with offensive Landorus-T being so common, SD Bulu, as well as special variants of Pheromosa emerging, it's not a very consistent check to a few important Pokemon it was intended to check, and it doesn't seem right to keep it in the same rank as Ferrothorn, an OU standard. Mega Venusaur I know is one a lot of people will disagree with but the biggest issue Mega Venusaur has is that outside of more offensive presence and Thick Fat, it really doesn't offer that much more to teams than Amoonguss, which doesn't take up a Mega slot. Overall, Mega Venusaur is better in general, but if you take it being a Mega into account, relying heavily on a low PP move for recovery, and no Lefties, it's not nearly as consistent at dealing with some of the Pokemon that Amoonguss checks, such as Tapu Koko, Ash Greninja, and Tapu Fini, which heavily punishes Venusaur with Natures Madness. Mega Venusaur is better fit for more BO builds, but at the same time, Amoonguss offers very similar role compression, but giving you the ability to use something else like say, Mega Metagross because why wouldn't you use that.

Zygarde 10% shouldn't be too surprising. At the moment, it is being heavily overshadowed by its counterpart, and even with CB, it sort of has Pheromosa syndrome, where if it can't kill something, it's probably going to die. However unlike Pheromosa, Zydog is not THAT strong, and fails to OHKO a good portion of the meta. It's also very susceptible to being revenged by most common Scarfers, Koko, Greninja, and being walled by Bulu sucks. In fact, even CB Zygarde 50% has shown itself as accomplishing similar results, but with added bulk instead of Speed, which is arguably just as useful, and lets it spam Thousand Arrows more comfortably. Mence and Volcarona are both Pokemon that have seen a lot of usage in the last few weeks, and even already in SPL. Both of them have the capabilities to rip through teams with their respective Z moves, and with people relying on Scarf Lele as their revenge killer, they take full advantage of that. When played correctly, so many common builds right now just completely lose to both of these mons, and they are easily one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier. Scolipede just recently got some massive hype in the form of an offensive SD set that punishes the heavy use of all the Fairies, Grasses, and Ground-types running around. Its typing lets it set up on the likes of Tapu Fini, Bulu, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and defensive Landorus-T (Stone Edge can't OHKO), and proceed to tear apart bulky and offensive builds thanks to its Speed boost ability and good coverage. A +2 Hydro Vortex can OHKO most of the bulky grounds found in the tier, as well as dealing very solid damage to Celesteela. It's not very easy to revenge either, and its coverage makes it hard to wall defensively as well. Mamoswine got a rise because it didn't fit with most of the trash Pokemon in C+, and it can still run a very strong offensive SR set as well as checking Koko, which is always great. Xurkitree is bad and super niche outside of Webs.

Also if there are any posts that complain about A- being inflated then expect it to be deleted, we are well aware. There is nothing wrong with a rank being inflated if it's accurate, and we are not going to move things around for the sake of it. It just shows that there are plenty of good picks in OU, but none of them are necessarily top tier.
 
GH[O]ST said:
I think Tapu Bulu deserves its A ranking. It does tend to fair poorly against the top mega pokemon, but it has a lot going for it with the ability to hit like a truck and excellent defensive typing.

First of all, it's a powerhouse. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think there is any attack in the tier that is as powerful as a Wood Hammer coming off of a banded Bulu in grassy terrain. It's really hard to switch into, and only really quad resists can stomach its grass attacks comfortably.

It has problems against the premier megas in the game, but it also happens to be an excellent answer to a myriad of very threatening non-mega. Look at the laundry list of things it has the potential to match up well against, depending Tapu Bulu's set - Ash Greninja (A+), Protean Greninja (A+), Tapu Fini (A+), Tapu Koko (A+), Garchomp (A), Manaphy (A), Rotom-W (A), Zygarde (A), rain sweepers...and more. and that's not including the fact that it can go toe-to-toe and potentially come out on top against two S-ranked pokemon in Lando-T and Tapu Lele. Its typing is really good, defensively too.

Bulu has its flaws but it's very potent on a well built team due to what it brings to the table. Grassy Terrain is a pain in the ass too, as it makes Bulu harder to kill and weakens popular ground type moves. Between the terrain and scouting what kind of Bulu you're going up against, a well-played bulu is just a pain in the ass with all the work it puts in

Bulu is better than ferrothron, scizor and rotom-w IMO
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Even though I agree on the wallbreaking potential of banded Bulu, I think you're giving it too much credit. Grass is a pretty bad offensive typing atm due to all of the Steel-types running around such as Celesteela, Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Magearna and others, which prevent it from spamming its STAB. Its average speed doesn't help either cause it leaves it easily revenge killed by common threats such as Metagross, Specs Lele, Protean Gren and others. Fortunately its great typing helps it get free switches on common mons, but some of them can pick it off with coverage (Fire Fang Chomp, Protean Gren, HP Ice LO Koko, Ice Beam Manaphy) so it doesn't really wall all of the mons you listed. However, with the right support (a sturdy defensive backbone, voltturn, etc) it can get to do tons of work which is why I think it should stay A.
 
I made a post on previous pages (#102) about Volcanion rising to B+. What does the VR team thinks about Volc atm? Any thoughts on the set I proposed would be appreciated as well.
 
MaahirMomtaz12 said:
Xurkitree has decent enough speed to set up though
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It's issue is that it's revenged by practically any Choice Scarfer in the tier, and without a Tail Glow boost it can't break through Alolan Marowak, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, AV Magearna, etc. Its bulk is also not the greatest so even if it does run a double dance set it's not going to get very many opportunities to do so. That's why it needs Webs so all of the Pokemon that try to revenge kill it are outsped, so at least it has one less thing to worry about.
 
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Sad bout venu drop but makes sense, here for one more nom today:

Weavile to B+

Gone are the days of weavile man. (Pursuit) weavile used to prey on Lati@s and starmie, but both are far, far less common than they used to be in oras, and instead they are replaced by pokemon like tapu fini (and magearna), a massive roadblock in the way of weavile found on so many teams its quite ridiculous. Base 125 speed isn't as valuable as it used to be either, especially not with tapu koko easily OHKO'ing and outspeeding weavile, greninja resisting both stabs and outpacing in ash form, and scarf revenge killers on nearly every team given the prevalence of set up sweepers in the current meta. It sure doesn't help that bullet punch is a better option now on mega metagross than it was in ORAS, and Mega SCizor has picked up some popularity just for countering the aforementioned, which means more lovely bullet punches.

It does help that nuisances like mega lopunny, mega manectric, clefable, and keldeo are either unreleased or much, much less common than in oras, and the abundance of grasses and grounds are easy to exploit with ice STAB, but imo the checks now are far more resilient (such as tapu fini, magearna, buzzwole, still fairly high usage of mzor) and the offensive pressure (tapu koko, scarfers, bullet punch) stays difficult to work around. You also have to contend with the slight knock off nerf, considering that ANY pokemon could be holding a z-crystal, which cannot be knocked off, you can't be sure you're always going to be working with a 97.5 bp move, as it may sometimes be a 65 bp one instead. Its sometimes very obvious what mon is holding a z-crystal, but against pokemon like heatran, you have to be extra cautious.

Of course, it does have ways to work around pokemon like tapu fini and ferrothorn if it really wanted to, it merely has to fit on poison jab, low kick, etc. Pursuit is lack luster and SD is pretty silly with all the BP/scarf lele running around, thus every weavile pretty much will be 4 attacks LO. But the damage isn't anything to write home about either:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Tapu Fini: 146-174 (42.5 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (and no chance of poison under misty terrain)
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 224-266 (79.7 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, its a sort of cool lure i guess, but there are pokemon that do it way better like bloom doom heatran or protean gunk shot gren

The prevalence of mega metagross initially appears to make weavile seem like a decent pick, but then you realize:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 182-218 (60.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 260-308 (92.5 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
its by no means a rock solid revenge killer

It really doesn't seem to stand out as an amazing pick in this meta, and it certainly doesn't seem as effective as other pokemon in A- are such as Mvenu, Char-y, Alolan Marowak, Excadrill etc. Almost every team you run into is packing tapu fini or AV magearna or some other sturdy check/solid scarfer to revenge kill (atleast the fairly popular scarf chomp/lanT can't do that), where as pokemon like char-y are getting a kill pmuch every time they safely come in, manaphy is pressuring water checks with new tools, and mence is sweeping with dd as z-fly starts the moxie snowball.

TL; DR drop weavile cuz fini is fucking everywhere
 
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qways said:
I made earlier a post about heracross going from unranked to c+http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread.3590726/page-4#post-7179384, that seems to have been completely ignored.
Can someone of the ranking team answer atleast?
I also have more replays for it to showcase its viability:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-516014549
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-516462328
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-516473861
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Nothing personal, but those replays hardly show the viability of Heracross as they are not of any quality. I stopped watching the first one when 1. your opponent brought a Tentacruel and 2. they flare blitzed a tapu fini with char x. The second one was no better, as your opponent chose to will-o-wisp Heracross after knocking off your flame orb; any competent player would not burn such an obvious guts mon, especially when phys def toxapex with haze walls heracross from here to hell and back, as does togekiss, which can easily threaten it with air slash. Your opponents team in the third replay was as follows: Tapu Fini / Landorus-Therian / Volcarona / Chansey / Toxapex / Registeel. If you think that is a quality replay, go watch some SPL. sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm very tired lmao.
 
Srn said:
Sad bout venu drop but makes sense, here for one more nom today:

Weavile to B+

Gone are the days of weavile man. (Pursuit) weavile used to prey on Lati@s and starmie, but both are far, far less common than they used to be in oras, and instead they are replaced by pokemon like tapu fini (and magearna), a massive roadblock in the way of weavile found on so many teams its quite ridiculous. Base 125 speed isn't as valuable as it used to be either, especially not with tapu koko easily OHKO'ing and outspeeding weavile, greninja resisting both stabs and outpacing in ash form, and scarf revenge killers on nearly every team given the prevalence of set up sweepers in the current meta. It sure doesn't help that bullet punch is a better option now on mega metagross than it was in ORAS, and Mega SCizor has picked up some popularity just for countering the aforementioned, which means more lovely bullet punches.

It does help that nuisances like mega lopunny, mega manectric, clefable, and keldeo are either unreleased or much, much less common than in oras, and the abundance of grasses and grounds are easy to exploit with ice STAB, but imo the checks now are far more resilient (such as tapu fini, magearna, buzzwole, still fairly high usage of mzor) and the offensive pressure (tapu koko, scarfers, bullet punch) stays difficult to work around. You also have to contend with the slight knock off nerf, considering that ANY pokemon could be holding a z-crystal, which cannot be knocked off, you can't be sure you're always going to be working with a 97.5 bp move, as it may sometimes be a 65 bp one instead. Its sometimes very obvious what mon is holding a z-crystal, but against pokemon like heatran, you have to be extra cautious.

Of course, it does have ways to work around pokemon like tapu fini and ferrothorn if it really wanted to, it merely has to fit on poison jab, low kick, etc. Pursuit is lack luster and SD is pretty silly with all the BP/scarf lele running around, thus every weavile pretty much will be 4 attacks LO. But the damage isn't anything to write home about either:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Tapu Fini: 146-174 (42.5 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (and no chance of poison under misty terrain)
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 224-266 (79.7 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, its a sort of cool lure i guess, but there are pokemon that do it way better like bloom doom heatran or protean gunk shot gren

The prevalence of mega metagross initially appears to make weavile seem like a decent pick, but then you realize:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 182-218 (60.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 260-308 (92.5 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
its by no means a rock solid revenge killer

It really doesn't seem to stand out as an amazing pick in this meta, and it certainly doesn't seem as effective as other pokemon in A- are such as Mvenu, Char-y, Alolan Marowak, Excadrill etc. Almost every team you run into is packing tapu fini or AV magearna or some other sturdy check/solid scarfer to revenge kill (atleast the fairly popular scarf chomp/lanT can't do that), where as pokemon like char-y are getting a kill pmuch every time they safely come in, manaphy is pressuring water checks with new tools, and mence is sweeping with dd as z-fly starts the moxie snowball.

TL; DR drop weavile cuz fini is fucking everywhere
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I vehemtly disagree. If anything I feel Weavile is very good in the meta because of some of the calculations you coincidentally provided.

Right now the best set for Weavile is Icicle Crash / Knock Off / Ice Shard / Poison Jab IMO. Poison Jab still does a fair chunk to Tapu Fini and the removal of Leftovers really hurts Fini's longevity too. Though it isn't a Pokemon that can OHKO a Mega Metagross and does have to fear priority Mega Metagross is often lacking coverage in return - which means a teammate like Rocky Helmet Tangrowth can pick up the slack. Ice STAB is exceptionally good with Zygarde in mind - a Pokemon that I feel is sleeper broken right now and it has shown its terror in SPL. Weavile has flaws, but it is much more frightening and has good niches to remain in A-. Many Pokemon in B+ have a lot more flaws than Weavile does, and I think it is doing Weavile a disservice to rank it the same as Terrakion - a Pokemon heavily outclassed in many of its roles and only brings small niches to the table.
 
Regarding Tapu Fini, I think it's fair to calc the thing with Rocks at least, since a big selling point is as a defogger, and thus its not uncommon for Fini to be switching into Rocks, whether against Weavile or at least at some point during the match.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Tapu Fini: 146-174 (42.5 - 50.7%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Still not quite a win, but at least not 100% secure for Fini. That's also assuming Fini doesn't lose its Leftovers, which is the most likely outcome if it didn't switch into Poison Jab from Weavile, which makes it a shakier check later in the match.

While Metagross gives Weavile trouble 1 v 1, Knock Off is still a chunk off it. And with the other two S-Ranks, Landorus-T is afraid of Ice Shard all the time, as well as Icicle Crash on any set besides Scarf, while Knock Off is as much a nuisance as ever. Lele only beats Weavile if it has Scarf to outspeed, and it still needs to get in via Revenge/Voltturn/Double Switch to win in that situation, as Weavile can KO it with almost any move after rocks, plus maybe a bit of prior damage in the case of Icicle Crash.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 218-257 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 247-292 (87.9 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Colonel M already noted Zygarde as an important mon that Weavile can check, and if we're looking over A- and up, there are a fair number of mons Weavile can check or Revenge.

- Z-Fly Salamence (252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 395-468 (118.9 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

- Alolan Marowak (It takes an inefficient amount of investment to survive KO, and it'd be crippled anyway)

- Amoongus (If Mega Venusaur's doing well, Amoongus is usually doing pretty well)
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 338-400 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

- Mega Pinsir (It needs to be +2 to OHKO with Quick Attack even if Weavile has Rocks, and Icicle Crash OHKO's in return)

- Tapu Bulu (252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 304-359 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO)

That's at least a couple things it has a definite good match up against, and there are others where it can inhibit use even if it doesn't win 1v1, as some mons like Pheromosa and Koko still have to predict around it or avoid wear-and-tear to get in due to Ice Shard and it's still decent power on neutral hits.

I think it should be acknowledged that while Weavile's speed tier did decline a bit in terms of importance and there are a couple more notable things that outspeed it now, a decrease in priority after Talonflame's murder, Breloom's decline, and Lele's Psychic Terrain does it some good as well (even if it also messes with its own Ice Shard) against offense. With offense trending towards Scarfers over Priority as their method to outrun set up sweeper and fast mons, it also gives Weavile a little more leeway to use Knock Off, since it can turn a losing match up into a winning one if it Knocks off a scarf, and (this being a very small benefit granted) it might fish out a Z-Crystal holder in the case of those using it for Lures or one of multiple options (Bloom Doom Heatran, Fairium-Z Magearna) once in a while.

I'd say it's fair to say Weavile's had a side-step more than an outright step down. Maybe the losses are a bit bigger than the gains in this meta, but I'd say they're not so large as to drop him out of A- quite yet.
 
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