Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[vso]

"Gengar is seeing a ton of usage for its ability to spam Shadow Ball so easily in a tier with very little resists and lack of Pursuiters. While it's still one of the best Scarfers in the tier, Specs is also seeing more usage as well as Ghostium Z, which only further limits the amount of Pokemon that can switch into it. It fits well on a wide variety of offensive teams because of its ability to check Pheromosa, which helps out a ton." This is why it just rose. Nothing even changed for it
back to topic, here are some rises that I agree with
Keldeo--> A
This thing is that best scarfer in the tier as it checks ash greninja, can use stone edge to take out volcarona, can revenge kill Landorus-T before a rock polish(if it even has it). It also possesses some cool lure sets like Z-Hyper Beam which allow it to muscle past its otherwise checks and counters. Keldeo has the speed tier to outpace scarf Nihilego and Garchomp which helps it a ton.
Azumarill --> B-
This monster is such a devastating sweeper with belly drum. It has very few checks and can sweep through unprepared offenses and bulky offenses, while the normalium set irritates non quagsire stall a lot. It also has sets like choice band which are almost impossible to switch into. The only two hard stops to CB Azumarill are tangrowth and venusaur-mega. Edit: It also has a ton of defensive utility in soft checking stuff like ash gren and hard checking quiver dance pheromosa
Calcs of Azumarill
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 118-141 (34.5 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 489-576 (142.5 - 167.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 445-525 (129.7 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 158-186 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO Keldeo cant ohko after rocks and sitrus+ belly drum
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 202-238 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 220-261 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 169-201 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 338-402 (108.6 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Revenge killing a +1 volcarona is super nice
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 211-250 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross-Mega: 168-198 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 160-189 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 160-189 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 169-199 (39.2 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery ( it can chip down amoongus)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 255-301 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
224+ SpA Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 209-246 (57.4 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Drops
Garchomp --> A
Garchomp just isnt as good as it once was. All the sets face stiff competition. Sd Garchomp faces competion with sd lando and sd lando isgenerally chosen for more defensive utility after intimidate, Ground immunity, much better offensive stats and access to rock polish. SD + Rocks Garchomp faces competion with SD + rocks landot. Again lando t is generally prefered. Scarf Garchomp faces competion with sacrf keldeo( the best scarfer), scarf Nihilego , terrakion, gengar etc. I do not consider its utility A+ worthy by any means, and having it as the same rank as keldeo seems fair to me.

 

[LeNorm]

So be it. *mumbles angrily*
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 230-272 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

To be nit picky, can I just point out that it is uncommon to find a volcarona on a team without a defogger/rapid spinner, as its huge stealth rocks weakness is its biggest problem, so most of the time it comes in without rocks up, so including SR in this calc isn't that helpful. Admittedly, even with Volc at +1 and with full health, Keldeo is likely to win a match up because the chances of Volc OHKOing are very small without rocks (assuming there was a defog just before Volc came in) so Keldeo can still check Volcarona, but not because of the above calc.

 

[Random Passerby]

1) Gengar to rise.
I've only used the Specs set but spamming Shadow Ball in a tier with 0 reliable Ghost resists is retarded. It also benefits greatly with the rise of fat Grass-types and pairs extremely well with Mega Scizor, who also gives it a slow U-Turn to come in on.

2) Garchomp to drop
The Choice Scarf set has fallen out of favour because of Scarf Keldeo who can revenge kill Ash Ninja more reliably and doesn't lock you into moves with dangerous immunities. The Swords Dance set, while good, is still easily revenged.

 

[Dussky]

Gengar -> A: Agree
I don't have much time to state my views for this here so i'll try to make it quick but to the point. Gengar is receiving popularity in the current meta, due to the lack of proper Ghost switch ins and abundance of trappers at the current time being. The Specs set is absolutely absurd as it spams one move being Shadow Ball. It's scarf set is one of the best scarfers in the meta as it checks the likes of Lele, Koko, Phero etc. And the ghost z move is receiving popularity due to like I stated, the abundance of ghost switch ins in this meta. There are currently only 5 Dark types in OU at the time being, the best switch in being Alolan-Muk which can trap Gengar with ease, and the remaining switch ins get destroyed by Focus Miss (granted it misses as the name implies) and phys def sab takes 57-67% from Specs Shadow Ball, and Z-Shadow Ball does 76-90% to phys def sab and 56-66% to SpD sab. in conclusion, due to the lack of ghost switch ins Gengar has become a huge threat recently and deserves some attention, I agree for Gengar for A.

 

[Muscle K]

Gengar -> On the fence, but leaning towards a rise.

Gengar's dual Ghost and Poison STAB is hard to deal with this generation, with many of Gengar's Checks and Counters dropping in both usage and viability, Gengar has the capability to run rampant as another Anti-Meta Ghost type.

Although many of it's checks and counters are still viable and used in the Overused teir, many have dropped in usage and viability due to the various fairy and steel types that dominate the teir.
Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar and Weavile in Particular were the both able to resist Gengar's main STAB (although having to be weary of Focus Miss Blast) have lost relevance mainly due to the Power Creep from various mons such as the Buffed Dugtrio, Greninja and the resistant typing of Magearna and the Tapu's.


This has allowed Gengar more opportunities to sweep and utilise choice specs/scarf sets, which turn it into a potent wallbreaker or sweeper respectively, without the fear of getting killed itself the following turn.

This has allowed sets such as Specs, Scarf, Life Orb, Z-Gengar (Never-Ending Nightmare, Acid Downpour and All-Out Pummeling) to tear holes in many teams, more than often picking up one kill.

This, coupled with the fact that there are very little checks and counters to Gengar - with the only notable checks and counters to Gengar being Chansey, because what doesn't chansey wall for fu Alolan-Muk, Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados, the latter two are either severly damaged or outright OHKO'd by Scarf Gengar.


252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 352-416 (102.9 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Chople Berry Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 210-248 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Hoopa-Unbound can also be a switch in to many sets, but comparable to many defensive threats in the teir even though though it isn't a defensive pokemon can be chipped away very easily, preventing a Sweep or not allowing it to break through various pokemon such as Scizor, which threatens it with Bullet Punch, or Toxapex, which can live any one hit and cripple it in return.

Another Point is its new ability: Cursed Body.

Shown in several different scenarios, Cursed Body can be a method of shutting down Choice Item sweepers such as Pheromosa, Tapu Lele, Ash-Greninja or Mono-Attacking Setup Sweepers or Walls such as Zygarde, Defensive Silvally Chansey and even Skarmory.

This allows a player to gain the momentum if Gengar has been sacked or allow Gengar to severely damage an incoming threat. While this ability is not as good as Levitate, it still allows Gengar to act as a pivot.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-241219

This replay shows Cicada using Gengar to shut down a scarf pheromosa to force a switch and eventually win with a Battle Bond Greninja Water Shuriken to pick Tapu Fini as well as Pheromosa.

I'll also be linking Joey Pokeaim's video discussing Gengar to support my arguments to show why Gengar should be raised to the A+ Rank.

Just Remember that this is my opinion, I may be wrong, but you don't need to crucify me.

TL:DR

- Gengar's checks and counters are either uncommon or must take a large amount of damage before Knocking it out.

- The teir is incredibly weak to Ghost and Poison STAB coupled with Coverage

- Gengar has good offensive and speed stats (Not mentioned, b/c it's pretty self-explanitory)

- Cursed Body is a situational ability that can shut down many sweepers.


EDIT: Garchomp A+ > A.
Too Lazy to ramble on about Garchomp

Basically:

- Scarf Sets Has Lost Viability due to the rise of Scarf Keldeo, Gengar and Nihilego.

- Swords Dance set is Powerful, But Can Be Revenged Easily by Greninja, Tapu Lele and Koko and Pheromosa, to name some.

- Can be walled easily by Bulu, but risks Z-Fire Fang or Poison Jab/Iron Head.

- Tankchomp has lost viability due to fairies and Toxapex.


Can't wait for Mega Mawile and Mega Beedrill, which to me are both OU worthy mon.

 

[thesecondbest]

Yeah, I really think Chomp needs to drop. The scarf set is too dangerous as locking yourself into Outrage is way too risky, and even EQ and Dragon Claw have immunities. The coverage options are too low power and utility (no u-turn or knock for example). The helmet set is OK, but too low power. I like the Offensive Rocker set, but with Lando-T being as great as it is, Chomp is not the greatest.

I also think Hoopa-U needs to rise. Did people forget this existed? It's similar to Tapu Lele, except it can go mixed. It may have piss poor physical bulk, but it is no slouch on the special side. B+ seems low with Lele in A+. A- seems fair. And this is coming from someone who didn't even want it banned last gen!

And is Magnezone really A- material? It has a niche and everything but it's so slow and I like Magearna a lot more unless you really want to trap a steel. I think that should drop too.

 

[Asek]

And is Magnezone really A- material? It has a niche and everything but it's so slow and I like Magearna a lot more unless you really want to trap a steel. I think that should drop too.

just being brief but i dont think magnezone should drop.... obviously you would like to use magearna if you dont want to trap steels instead of magnzeone but l dont think anyones ever gonna try make a case that mags being used outside of that ability lol. Thinking of relevant steels that magnezone traps effectively ferro, cele, skarm, m sciz, and jirachi come to mind. You can make the point that some of these have ways to escape or beat mag (cele is especially annoying if you lack specs, jirachi often u turns out and shed shell skarm is a thing) but these are all the steels that magnezone can realistically trap and at worst severely cripple in most game situations. Thinking of meta threats that want these mons gone, mega metagross, tapu lele, garchomp, m scizor, m pinsir, mence, ash gren, lando..... all these mons benefit heavily from removal of at least one of those steels, and once the opposing steel is gone for most of these mons it is fairly true that when they get in its either going to be a forced sac or flat out getting set up and swept in the case of some of them.

With so many of some of the metagames premier attackers have their checks / counters dealt with handily by magnezone i cant see it dropping

 

[njnp]

just being brief but i dont think magnezone should drop.... obviously you would like to use magearna if you dont want to trap steels instead of magnzeone but l dont think anyones ever gonna try make a case that mags being used outside of that ability lol. Thinking of relevant steels that magnezone traps effectively ferro, cele, skarm, m sciz, and jirachi come to mind. You can make the point that some of these have ways to escape or beat mag (cele is especially annoying if you lack specs, jirachi often u turns out and shed shell skarm is a thing) but these are all the steels that magnezone can realistically trap and at worst severely cripple in most game situations. Thinking of meta threats that want these mons gone, mega metagross, tapu lele, garchomp, m scizor, m pinsir, mence, ash gren, lando..... all these mons benefit heavily from removal of at least one of those steels, and once the opposing steel is gone for most of these mons it is fairly true that when they get in its either going to be a forced sac or flat out getting set up and swept in the case of some of them.

With so many of some of the metagames premier attackers have their checks / counters dealt with handily by magnezone i cant see it dropping

I think the reason or what the reason should be is magnezones only "viable set" in this metagame is av to be able to come into power spa hits and force that mon out. You can't run scarf cause its results are pretty sub optimal and leads you as set up bait to z move lando/chomp if you are trapped in an electric move and a free magma storm for heatran if you are trapped in flash. There also is the fact that dugtrio didn't get banned so as im sure you know dugtrio just removes that bastard rq before it sometimes even gets a trapping chance. There are great merits to zone such as trapping the raising usage of celesteela and ferrothron. Your opp is going to try his best to prevent that and in some cases if he weakens ur zone enough it can't even trap celesteela because of flamethrower or ferro is generally able to get 2 sets of hazards up on zone. Mega Scizor all usually run enough speed to outpace its av set so a drop a zone imo should happen. What rank we decide on not sure but it certainly won't rise anytime soon.

 

[DisasterWing]

A-------> A + rank

Gengar has been consistently showing amazing success in the SPL and on the ladder for a good reason, literally no OU revelant pokemon can switch into it. Greninja is probably the only good ghost resist the metagame has, and even that takes ~50% from a specs shadow ball. Everything else gets severely dented or outright OHKOed upon switching in to it. Its also one of the few special attackers not wall by chansey due to its immunity to seismic toss and toxic, and it can cripple chansey with taunt and wear it down with focus blast in return. Its scarf set surprises setup sweepers such as salamence and volcarona expecting to outspeed and takes them down with destiny bond or if there weakened, finish them of with one of its STABs. It provides offense teams a check to pheromosa which is crucial as offense is notorious for being extremely weak to phero. Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Weavile are a lot less popular and a lot less viable as well, and they can't even switch in for fear of focus blast. Its STABs are extremely spammable in this metagame, and for all the aforementioned reasons, (as well as the arguments of everyone else) gengar should definitely rise.

Subject 18 Edit: Removed stuff that was irrelevant.

 

[DisasterWing]

B+------> A-

While it may seem strange to rank gyrados above salamence, its actually easier to fit onto teams thanks to it not requiring magnezone on the same team as it, and how volcarona requires a hazard remover, this thing is pretty independent. It puts far less strain on teambuilding as most other setup sweepers do. The combination of Z bounce and moxie + dragon dance make it and incredibly difficult sweeper to stop once set up, as it will keep snowballing as its progresses. Much like gengar, it provides offense a check for pheromosa which most other setup sweepers cannot do, and it finds much more setup opportunists on offensive pokemon like protean greninja ,volcarona and physically defensive Landours Therian. Gyrados has been showcasing its strength in battles and the SPL long enough, I think its time for a rise now.

Subject 18 Edit: Removed stuff that was irreverent.

 

[Ropalme1914]

Gengar to A+: Agree
I was thinking that he was at that level for some time, but I did not nominate it myself because I did not know if most people would agree. It is just the basic argument: Gengar is fast and hit hard af (same Sp. Atk as Tapu Lele and Atk for Garchomp, though Lele has the Psychic Terrain and Garchomp has a stronger STAB), Ghost is the best type offensively imo (and in general I would say, but Fairy and Steel are great contenders) due to the lack of resistances (for real, how many of your teams have any Ghost resistance outside of Greninja, who is super frail, and how much Ghost weakness each has, especially considering that Megagross is already weak for it?), and Poison STAB being so valuable in a Fairy meta. With a coverage of Ghost, Poison, Fight and Electric, he hit 19 out of 33 mons from S to A- super effectively, and the others that don't get hit for SE damage, are hit at least for neutral damage from his STABs, and he still some other options for attacks like Icy Wind. He still has great utility movepool like Taunt, WoW and Trick, decent type that allows him to check some things like Pheromosa and ignore Toxic (which is great, since Burn does not affect him that much, making Paralyze the only thing from status conditions that bothers him) while escaping from Dug, and while his ability is not that great, it's far from useless, since it can bothers Scarf users and sometimes even save your team from getting sweeped by some mon that was boosting himself. The thing is, while these things are not new, they are that great that Gengar can maybe go for an even higher rank (for me, he is better than all of the A tier).

 

[Kejmur]

A-------> A + rank
Its also one of the few special attackers not wall by chansey due to its immunity to seismic toss and toxic, and it can cripple chansey with taunt and wear it down with focus blast in return.

Or may simply run Trick on Specs / Scarf set and cripple Chansey / Blissey to the point where they are practically useless if you really despise pink blobs. It's kind of ridiculous how one of the best picks to handle hit from it can't really switch in at all, because both Taunt and Trick screw up them really hard. Alolan Muk also isn't fan of being tricked those items as well.

 

[Gotham-Mimiqui]

Out of discussion points but, why are Torkoal and Decidueye ranked? I can see the other mons' niches in C-, but I fail to see those two's.

 

[Gryoine]

Out of discussion points but, why are Torkoal and Decidueye ranked? I can see the other mons' niches in C-, but I fail to see those two's.

Torkoal provides Drought support for sun teams (outside of Zard-Y), and is also viable as a spinner and rocks setter for sun teams. It's just very unfortunate to be weak to SR, grounded, and have poor match-ups against many SR setters.

Decidueye works as a trapping SD passer that I found some success with much earlier in the metagame. I'm not sure how viable it still is in such a role.

 

[Leo]

Yeah honestly I don't understand the reasoning behind ranking Torkoal. Sun teams aren't even relevant for several reasons I won't go on about here because everyone knows how shit they are with both of their main abusers (Shiftry and reg Venu) unranked and its setters (Torkoal and Ninetales I guess) weak to rocks. Like yeah, they can be a fun gimmick but there's no reason to use it imo

 

[LeNorm]

Can I suggest Porygon-Z to B-/C+?

Porygon-Z's only viable sets are the Z-Conversion sets - typically Ghost or Electric. Now, these are both sets that theoretically seem really good: Ghost has a near unresisted stab in the tier (see all the above Gengar discussion), and with HP Fighting/Signal Beam it has decent coverage; BoltBeam coverage is always good, and hits a lot of the tier hard. Because of this, at the start of SM, Porygon got quite a lot of use.

That said, Porygon still needs a turn to set up, and can only do this once. As one has to run conversion + 2 attacks minimum, there is only one more slot. This is either another coverage move, typically HP Ground for the electric set, or Nasty Plot, or Recover if you want longevity. At +1 speed, Porygon still is out sped by a number of common scarf users (Landorus-T, Gengar, Nihilegio, etc.), which leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed - especially if it has taken an attack while setting up Conversion. At +1 attack, it still struggles to break through strong defensive mons, particularly if it cannot hit them super effectively. This means there are few mons it can safely set up on, without being revenge killed. This makes Porygon-Z a bit of a mediocre sweeper, late game or otherwise, as both faster and bulky mons have to be dealt with, which is asking a lot.

In addition, the Bolt-beam set struggles to outclass other electric mons, such as Tapu Koko, and the Ghost set does little that Gengar cannot do with added versatility, and it is mostly outclassed by other mons in the field. It struggles in comparison with these mons as they can both hit hard without setting up, and both can be sent in multiple times, whereas Porygon only gets one opportunity to set up thanks to it being reliant upon Z-Conversion. These problems are compounded by the fact that Porygon also takes up your one and only Z-crystal slot, which can have far more productive uses - Flyium-Z Gyarados; Continental Crush Landorus; etc.

This means that it faces competition on two fronts - typing/coverage and Z-Moves, and it cannot really justify its place on many teams because of these problems. To my mind, this means that Porygon-Z is not worthy of a 'B' Rank - it has a far more niche/inconsistent role in the Meta than this, and should thus be demoted.

 

[tenkai]

Yeah honestly I don't understand the reasoning behind ranking Torkoal. Sun teams aren't even relevant for several reasons I won't go on about here because everyone knows how shit they are with both of their main abusers (Shiftry and reg Venu) unranked and its setters (Torkoal and Ninetales I guess) weak to rocks. Like yeah, they can be a fun gimmick but there's no reason to use it imo

Actually that's a good point, if a weather setter is ranked then logically shouldn't abusers be ranked with it? I may be completely wrong about that lol, but that seems to be the standard other tiers use. Whether that means torkoal should be unranked or venusaur should be ranked, I have no idea, and it's low rank so it doesn't really matter anyway (actually I think we're not supposed to talk about the super low ranks, sorry) but yeah, jut an observation

 

[KrazyKoopa95]

So...........any comments on Mega Beedrill and Mega Mawile?

 

[HC]

So...........any comments on Mega Beedrill and Mega Mawile?

I mean, I don't even know if they're allowed on PS yet so any talk about them is just gonna be theorymonning at this point...

On a more relevant point, I think Toxapex is actually good enough for A+. It's ability to fit onto any team bar HO is so valuable, with an incredible defensive typing for the meta, especially considering how large Pheromosa is atm. TSpikes are really solid right now, with a lot of teams running subpar hazard control, and helping to stop major threats like Volc and Zygarde. Ultimately, I think Pex is the premier threat on defensive teams, and with stall and BO being pretty potent right now, Toxapex is a huge player in their viability.

 

[Joe Career]

We should probably give a bit of time before trying to rank the new megas. Dicussing them is fine, though, and we have other threads for that. I suggest we head over to the metagame discussion to discuss Mega Mawile and Mega Beedrill.

 

[Martin]

In the past there has been a one week grace period before discussion of newly released Pokemon is allowed in VR threads, so I'd imagine that this will still be the case now. Either way we can't have an informed discussion at this point in time so just refrain from talking about them.

Anyway, I'd like to show my support for a Gengar rise. I'm almost certain that I'm basically repeating things that have already been said at this point, but yeah you just can't undersell how immensely dangerous Ghost is as an offensive type in the current meta. It's viable/semi-viable defensive answers are extremely limited and all really hate Gengar's coverage or utility options with the exception of Alolan Muk and Mandibuzz, both of which are mediocre Pokemon at best (I'd even go as far as calling the latter outright bad tbqh), and this allows Gengar to just exert so much pressure versus basically every playstyle becaue it is in a similar position to Alolan Marowak in that it can come in on something and guarantee extremely heavy damage on something. Ghostium is complete savage, Specs is complete savage, Scarf is one of the best scarfers in the current meta, and the meta simply is under-prepared for Gengar. Stall has nothing for LO/Specs/Ghostium variants aside from Pursuit Dugtrio and Shadow Ball Blissey, the former of which opens up other weaknesses and the latter of which forces Stealth Rock onto a teammate which doesn't fully appreciate losing a moveslot for it whilst being overall less effective than Chansey for what should be extremely obvious reasons; Balance is put under immense pressure by Specs/LO/Ghostium Shadow Ball, whereas offense really struggles with Scarf's offensive utility while still being put under pressure by the variants balance and stall struggle with due to it's ability to beat out the vitally important 100-109 speed bracket. There is basically no Pursuit presence at this point, and this just means that it goes to town on a lot of teams due to simply how badly prepped they are.

Yeah I bet the vast majority of this has been said by others but honestly idgaf so here you go.

 

[Gary]

Yeah guys no talking about Mawile/Beedrill's placement until next week please, and any post breaking that rule will be deleted. You are allowed to discuss them just please don't nominate them for any rank just yet. They need time in the meta before we can properly rank them. Thank you.

 

[LeNorm]

Yeah guys no talking about Mawile/Beedrill's placement until next week please, and any post breaking that rule will be deleted. You are allowed to discuss them just please don't nominate them for any rank just yet. They need time in the meta before we can properly rank them. Thank you.

To clarify, while we cannot discuss the ranking of Mega-Mawile and Beedrill themselves, we can make comments regarding the influence of Mawile/Beedrill on the ranking of other mons. For example, we can say that "the inclusion of Mega-Mawile and Mega-Beedrill makes Gengar less viable, as Mawile can use its priority and OHKO with sucker punch, and Beedrill outspeeds non-scarfed Gengar, and OHKOs with drill run or knock off, and could even pursuit trap Gengar." Correct?

 

[Gotham-Mimiqui]

I'm going to say this quick because Gary JUST said not to talk about either of them,why do you even bother? You're going way too far as saying that Gengar is less viable because of those two, but I guess you just talked about Gengar to show that you were still on a discussion point and make use of that to talk about the two Megas.
Gengar won't stay on Mawile, and Beedrill is completely outlcassed by Pheromosa (which Gengar checks). Move on.

 

[LeNorm]

I'm going to say this quick because Gary JUST said not to talk about either of them,why do you even bother? You're going way too far as saying that Gengar is less viable because of those two, but I guess you just talked about Gengar to show that you were still on a discussion point and make use of that to talk about the two Megas.
Gengar won't stay on Mawile, and Beedrill is completely outlcassed by Pheromosa (which Gengar checks). Move on.

Please, read the post - it ends as a question, to clarify what can and cannot be said about Mega-Mawile/Beedrill. Why you find that so offensive, I don't know.

And then you went on to make an actual point about the two mons, which I was careful not to do, discussing Mega-Beedrill's viability by saying its outclassed by Phero (which is, by the way, not the whole story - Beedrill does things Phero cannot due to its wider move pool, checking mons such as Gengar, Aloan-Marowak, etc.).