• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hyra said:
I know there are people who love the UU metagame and would love for us to add something for them. But if we created 40 something Pokemon and they are all OU, either we are replacing all but nine of the current OU or OU is drastically expanding. UU is already one of the largest and most varied metagames, they haven't even fully explored it yet. I do agree at some point we should aim for some UU Pokemon, but not until we have a substantial base of solid OU / BL ones (20 or so). Even then, I still want all of the Pokemon we create to be countered by other Pokemon we create. Garchomp recently took the #1 spot in Shoddy usage because it has no reall 100% counter (probably even in Ubers, but it is outclassed there).
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you on the OU/UU thing. Let's just create a pokemon that we think will be competitive and if it falls into UU, so be it. All this talk about watering down the pokemon is not very practical.

So far, all the polls (on Syclant and this one) have tended toward the more powerful choices. Some say too powerful, some even say broken. I don't think so. I'll reiterate a point I made earlier -- if I posted Metagross' type, stat line, move pool etc.. BUT removed the name "Metagross", and simply proposed it as a new pokemon --- a LOT of people would yell "IT'S BROKEN!". Obviously, Metagross is not broken. Powerful? Hell yeah. Broken? No way.

This is the reason I don't think we should dismiss 580-600 BST outright. I would not vote for it personally, but I don't think it should be assumed that 550-ish is the highest we can "safely" go.

I don't think anything we build will be broken, but I also don't think we'll be able to intentionally make it UU. I don't even know how to go about making a UU pokemon. I can only imagine the arguments if we tried that. Instead of the annoyingly frequent catcalls of "It's broken!" -- we'd have even more annoying and even more frequent catcalls of "It's OU!"

No thanks.

Let's just do our best and let the tier decisions to be made after play-testing.
 
i suggest we make it according to OU standards, since its balanced we give it togekiss-like stats with focus on Physical. If we do it that way, we ensure a pokemon that is highly competitive and will not be broken.

Is togekiss broken? I think not, or else it will be #1 on shoddy ladder.

This pokemon probably will not have togekiss' movepool either, since as a normal type Gamefreak felt compelled to give that thing a movepool that stretches onwards towards eternity. It probably will end up like a weaker Togekiss due to lack of Serene Grace (Don't you even think of putting that on this pokemon, shadow claw's crit will only increase, and that's bad).
 
What is the percentage of those crit moves, by the way?

Also, this thing is shaping up quite well. It's flowing a bit smoother than the Syclant one.
 
I think this Pokemon would fit very well into the description of "reversed Snorlax," that is, having high defense and special attack contrary to Snorlax's high special defense and attack. It would be somewhat like Regice, too; it has some physical weaknesses despite its huge defense (and possibly HP) stat, but still makes a strong physical wall, which is mostly the case for Regice except being on the special side.

With this set up, I imagine it would have a rather low attack stat that it can still take advantage of (much in the same way that Snorlax makes one hell of a Fire Blast user despite a weak special attack stat). As I have said before, a STAB physical fighting move, especially coming from something that is for the most part specially attacking (meaning the STAB physical fighting move will target the common special walls), is still scary even if the stat is mediocre and packs 70~ base stat.

Basically, I can see this Pokemon as a combination of Snorlax's and Regice's good/bad traits.

I voted Special.
 
I'm thinking a balanced sweeper, almost a tank:

70/105/85/105/105/65

It's kinda slow, but could get Pain Split to help it stay alive. It's even slow enough for Trick Room... the 110 attack could be boosted by SD or Bulk Up. 70 HP is just nice to have, 352 is a good lefties number. Shadow Claw + Force Palm/Cross Chop could be it's offense... I like the idea of Force Palm because it's kinda ghosty or mysterious looking. I'd like a sort of lopsided Voldo look myself

It could also get Aura Sphere by breeding with something I guess. but it'd be illegal with Pain Split to make it fair. The stat total comes to 535, which is pretty fair, IMO. If you guys think it isn't just make all of those 105s into 100s.
 
KingofAnime-KoA said:
What is the percentage of those crit moves, by the way?

Also, this thing is shaping up quite well. It's flowing a bit smoother than the Syclant one.
Click to expand...

Hi CH moves only CH around 12% of the time instead of 25% that was the case in GSC (and advance? not sure becuase i don't think anyone really tested the rate)


also PHYSICAL because the closest thing to a OU physcial ghost sweeper we have is Dusknoir whos better off doing more defensive things
 
I totally agree with you on the OU/UU thing. Let's just create a pokemon that we think will be competitive and if it falls into UU, so be it. All this talk about watering down the pokemon is not very practical.
Click to expand...
Thing is, we're making all these pokemon with the intention of them being OU-worthy. It's quite unlikely that something that's designed to be OU-level would end up being weak enough for UU even if it wasn't as good as planned. If we could create something that's viable in OU but not overpowered in UU like Tentacruel, that'd be great, but that's much more difficult than creating a clear-cut OU poke. That said, I don't think these polls should focus on the UU metagame, as that's still (comparatively) unexplored compared to OU, and just because OU is the standard metagame.

So far, all the polls (on Syclant and this one) have tended toward the more powerful choices. Some say too powerful, some even say broken. I don't think so. I'll reiterate a point I made earlier -- if I posted Metagross' type, stat line, move pool etc.. BUT removed the name "Metagross", and simply proposed it as a new pokemon --- a LOT of people would yell "IT'S BROKEN!". Obviously, Metagross is not broken. Powerful? Hell yeah. Broken? No way.
Click to expand...
I see and understand the point you're making (hell, my sig is a pretty good example of things not working out as expected, albeit in the other direction), though Metagross probably isn't the greatest example (I'd have picked Garchomp and it's 120-bp, STAB, 130 stat hardly-resisted Outrage or Blissey and it's obscene hp/sp def for something that might seem broken in theory but not in practice).

Despite having said that, I do want to be conservative on the stat total, because as has been stated many times this is going to be one hell of a pokemon.

One other thing I'd like to state is that I'd be very hesitant about giving it Shadow Sneak. Depending on how strong this thing is, with Shadow Sneak it might be able to OHKO several of the pokemon that have the ability to truly threaten it (Gengar, Azelf, Alakazam, Medicham), who are rare enough as it is. Of course, that'll depend on it's final stats, but...eh.

Edit: Something with 100 base attack (252/Adamant), +1 attack (Bulk Up) using STAB Shadow Sneak (no boosting item):

134.92% - 158.73% on 4/0 Alakazam
104.96% - 123.66% on 4/0 Gengar
88.55% - 104.20% on 4/0 Medicham
83.90% - 98.63% on 4/0 Azelf

Zam and Gengar are both toast, and if SR is up Azelf has about a 20% chance of survival while Medicham has about a 40% chance of living. Hmm...
 
Fishin said:
I see and understand the point you're making (hell, my sig is a pretty good example of things not working out as expected, albeit in the other direction), though Metagross probably isn't the greatest example (I'd have picked Garchomp and it's 120-bp, STAB, 130 stat hardly-resisted Outrage or Blissey and it's obscene hp/sp def for something that might seem broken in theory but not in practice).

Despite having said that, I do want to be conservative on the stat total, because as has been stated many times this is going to be one hell of a pokemon.
Click to expand...

I use Metagross as an example over Garchomp for two reasons:
1) Metagross' typing is almost perfect, and Chomp has a 4x weak
2) There are many people who think Garchomp IS broken. I don't think so, but it is amazingly powerful.

I agree that we don't need to worry about this pokemon being underpowered. This is going to be a beast.
 
i would like a pokemon with mixed defences but high phy. attack.
thtas what i say, maybe with useable sp. attack so it can hit phy. walls if it has a super efective attack? like 120/113/82/50/95/65? thats 525 total.
 
Fishin said:
I see and understand the point you're making (hell, my sig is a pretty good example of things not working out as expected, albeit in the other direction), though Metagross probably isn't the greatest example (I'd have picked Garchomp and it's 120-bp, STAB, 130 stat hardly-resisted Outrage or Blissey and it's obscene hp/sp def for something that might seem broken in theory but not in practice).
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that they're discussing the brokenness of Garchomp in the other thread. Some are suggesting it be banned with Tyranitar and co.
 
Okay, votes are tallied.

Physical - 30 votes - 68.18%
Special - 8 votes - 18.18%
Mixed - 6 votes - 13.64%

Of course, everyone wants it to have balanced defenses, so that will be noted.

Moving on, it's time we decide the final, and arguably most important aspect so far, SPEED. I'm going to give speed ranges, and you guys will vote on them.

@Doug:

You feel like testing your Hypothesis? Switch the Special with the Physical stats and make a hypothetical new move that is a special Mirror of Meteor Mash (Meteor Mash was exclusive to Metagross in RS). And then post it.
 
Fast. I don't want it too fast, so fast is good enough. Also, I like the set-up Hyra. Its a little wierd to get accustomed to, but it is cool when you do.
 
Very Fast this would lead to lower other stats, but I like speed! Fast would be my vote if Very Fast isn't even close lol. 110 maybe?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top