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Smogon Premier League III - Format Thread
- Thread starter LonelyNess
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My "problem" with RU and LC, has undisputed hinted earlier, is that there needs to be, at the very least 10 easily qualified players, WHO ARE WELLKNOWN, for the metagame to be included. As a person who cares deeply about tournaments and tournament performance, I just don't see how a person can be considered good at a metagame solely from laddering without having proven they are good in tournaments. I felt like we had this problem, although on a smaller scale, last season with VGC. I understand that there is a council of 7 players for RU - so that is 7 players, who have a decent chance of actually being good at it, if they all actually sign up. So that is still 3 spots up for grabs even if all 7 of the council players enter SPL. Honestly, I will not be surprised if nearly all managers will just leave the RU spot to a 3/4k player. I do not think that is good for SPL. I want to see high profile players at every position. This tournament should be about showcasing the best players at their best metagames, not an experiment for metagame inclusion.
There is really no point in trying to argue for the format of this SPL so I will not, but I feel that what I just pointed out needs to be kept in mind for metagame inclusion in future SPLs.
There is really no point in trying to argue for the format of this SPL so I will not, but I feel that what I just pointed out needs to be kept in mind for metagame inclusion in future SPLs.
While it seems good to add "variety tiers" to this, I'd like to remind everyone that SPL is supposed to put the best players from the "MAIN" Tiers in a cage.
For instance, sure you can be a wonderful chess player, but you won't fit in an Olympics Team. Everyone knows chess can be a tough game but we're not gonna include it anytime soon.
For instance, sure you can be a wonderful chess player, but you won't fit in an Olympics Team. Everyone knows chess can be a tough game but we're not gonna include it anytime soon.
The problem here is to know if there is good RU players, and although i have no doubt about that, who are they ? And i would like to add, but thats just my own opinion, that DPP Ubers players probably more deserve to play this SPL than RU players since it's an "old" tier, there will be other occasions for RU players next season...
You can always check the Council members, QC members, and #rarelyused (almost every good ru player imo has status there). There was also the RU tournament, although that ended a while ago and the metagame changed a while.
I'm going to have to say that I don't think RU should be in here. If anything, a tier that has a much larger and older userbase (like DPP UU or Ubers) probably deserves to be in the slot more. Hell even a second DPP OU would be cool there, since there are a ton of players to pick from that spot.
a second ADV OU slot would be cool too
Yea fabbles made a great point. From a players perspective having bw ru seems like a fine idea because it gives said player another opportunity to be part of spl. But, from a managers perspective bw ru will come off as the cheapest metagame, meaning competitiveness decreases by not knowing who can actually pull his weight in the tier. If we follows fabbles thoughts which seem more realistic than what most of us think, giving the spot to DPP OU or BW LC seems more reasonable considering managers and players know who is good at what, much more than BW RU. Bear in mind that the decision on one spot in spl won't destruct the tournament as a whole, just might increase or decrease the level of skill in the format marginally. Also, DPP Uber and DPP UU, in my opinion, fall short to DPP OU and even BW LC, which adds to the variety factor a bit more. As a last note, please don't keep pushing for 12 metagames, tiebreakers are dumb during playoffs.
There's no reason RU should take any less weight than any other metagame. It's worth the same amount of wins each week as DPP OU / ADV OU / GSC OU etc... any manager that doesn't draft a good RU player is just as stupid as one who doesn't draft a good UU one.
+1
It's not about weighting the tiers, its about being able to pick from a larger selection of players. There really aren't that many good RU players to choose from, while you can find a much more diverse selection from tiers like DPP OU (or BW LC to an extent)
My whole problem with adding this RU is LonelyNess asked the managers to vote on like a few different formats, then doesn't bother following our input at all.
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> BW OU / VGC 2012 / BW Uber / BW UU / DPP OU / ADV OU / GSC OU / RBY OU
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> 8 slots are guaranteed
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> now
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> which of the following would you prefer
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> +1 BW / +1 VGC
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> +2 BW OU
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> +1 BW OU / +1 LC
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> +1 BW
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> +1 LC
[00:08:23 <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> yes I realize the top 3 choices make 10 slots and the bottom two only make 9
[00:08:33 <LonelyNess> tell me your 1st / 2nd preference
I voted obviously and then the final format is nothing like anything he asked us to vote on. This isn't the first time LN has done something out of left field that makes no sense or even asks for our input on it and I don't expect LN to ever change, he is going to do something out of left field or doesn't make sense for as long as he hosts this tournament.
Where did it say that was a vote? It was a poll, and it was one that I DID use to determine the final slots. BW OU having 3 slots was by far the most popular choice of the poll. And the original format was only 10 slots big, with BW OU 3, rest at 1 being the format. I added RU to the format because it deserves a slot just as much as the other slots do, being an official metagame AND having more activity than some of the other metagames included.
Don't pretend I didn't listen to your input when I did, just because the format that you wanted most didn't get selected. The final format wasn't "way out in left field". It was the most popular choice among the managers, +1 BW RU slot. That's far from random. Stop being antagonistic because of whatever vendetta you seem to have about the way the tournament is run.
Don't pretend I didn't listen to your input when I did, just because the format that you wanted most didn't get selected. The final format wasn't "way out in left field". It was the most popular choice among the managers, +1 BW RU slot. That's far from random. Stop being antagonistic because of whatever vendetta you seem to have about the way the tournament is run.
It's interesting that the word manager doesn't even show up in the relevant thread in the TD forum, regardless, curious how well that info is being passed on. Even more curious that RU wasn't mentioned to managers and no one(including LN) seemed to be in favor of it so I'm not really sure how this one happened.
Knowing from experience it's fairly pointless to argue about format at this point in the season I do have one suggestion for doing this in the future: ignoring the fairly obvious result that you'd get from popular vote(the same way the manager vote apparently happened) I really wish you guys would at least bring the format up for the participants in the event before it basically had to already be set in stone. These threads are usually an exercise in futility but it's unfortunate that it needs to be that way since SPL is by far the official tournament with the most malleable structure and a decent amount of thought is put in on the administrative end about what metagames should be picked to maximize how many good players are able to play in the event(as well as political moves with lesser played metagames, obviously). I think it'd really make more sense to post this sort of thread earlier in the process and see what people you expect would play in the event actually want to play... why guess if you can do the field work and get the answer, you know?
Knowing from experience it's fairly pointless to argue about format at this point in the season I do have one suggestion for doing this in the future: ignoring the fairly obvious result that you'd get from popular vote(the same way the manager vote apparently happened) I really wish you guys would at least bring the format up for the participants in the event before it basically had to already be set in stone. These threads are usually an exercise in futility but it's unfortunate that it needs to be that way since SPL is by far the official tournament with the most malleable structure and a decent amount of thought is put in on the administrative end about what metagames should be picked to maximize how many good players are able to play in the event(as well as political moves with lesser played metagames, obviously). I think it'd really make more sense to post this sort of thread earlier in the process and see what people you expect would play in the event actually want to play... why guess if you can do the field work and get the answer, you know?
Randomly adding a metagame that wasn't mentioned when polled, that is the textbook definitions of from out of left field. I'm not complaining my chosen format didn't get picked, I'm complaining you claim to want to make SPL better by listening to the people, then make your own decisions that flabbergast and don't seem particularly popular among managers. Especially taking away ties by adding this metagame, instead of making the tournament exciting to the last week like the past two years I guarantee several teams will be completely out of it by the middle stages of the season.
It's the manager and assistant manager's job to research good players. If they can't do that, that's their problem. I don't see why having players' names plastered everywhere so any kid on the site could draft is what we're aiming for. The best management teams seem to have a good handle on what's going on in multiple metagames.
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